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Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: SHARPE52 on February 21, 2021, 01:35:17 PM
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Hi All Fellow Wargamers,
I haven't seen anything in this blog which may answer my question. If anybody knows of a thread like this I apologize in advance. :'(
What I am looking for is a set of large skirmish rules for playing the War of Troy, something involving roughly 50 figures per side with rules for characters as well as rules for common warriors.
I am thinking of creating house rules for adapting Mortal Gods or Outremer (this latter is devoted to crusades but has interesting features applicable to earlier periods IMHO).
Is anyone aware of something like what I have described?
TIA
Marco
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There's a chap in the north of the UK has a set:
http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/vintageSite/wargames/skirmish/troygame.html
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I've used Dux Britannarium from the Two Fat Lardies with a few modifications for heroes.
Roderick
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There's a chap in the north of the UK has a set:
http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/vintageSite/wargames/skirmish/troygame.html
Thank you I'll have a look :)
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I've used Dux Britannarium from the Two Fat Lardies with a few modifications for heroes.
Roderick
That could be a good idea. I have the rules but never played since we use Dux Bellorum.
Thanks :)
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I have a fairly dim memory of a Saga mod for the Trojan War that appeared in one of the major magazines about five years ago, complete with Designs for battle boards and command dice. I regret to say that’s as far as my recollection goes.
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My suggestion would be mortal gods if you were going to go for a more classical Grecian version of the trojan war, but perhaps test of honour wih its smaller units and emphasis of heroes might be a good system to look into? provided of course that you dont mind messing with the rules :)
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I have a fairly dim memory of a Saga mod for the Trojan War that appeared in one of the major magazines about five years ago, complete with Designs for battle boards and command dice. I regret to say that’s as far as my recollection goes.
Thank you for your suggestion, I will investigate for finding this expansion.
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My suggestion would be mortal gods if you were going to go for a more classical Grecian version of the trojan war, but perhaps test of honour wih its smaller units and emphasis of heroes might be a good system to look into? provided of course that you dont mind messing with the rules :)
I must say that I like more TOH than Mortal Gods and I have no prejudice in adapting and/or mixing various sets.
So in the end if I don't find a specific set I will have a go with your advice :)
Thanks
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I have am old set called "Before the Gates of Troy". Mainly a skirmish set for heroes with their retainers. Originally sold by Redoubt miniatures. No idea if they are still available.
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I’ve done a bit of googling, without success as far as the piece in question is concerned, but found an article on TMP from 2009 titled Would You Game the Trojan War? Amidst some facetious comments there are a few which might be of use, including reference to a two-part article in older issues of Wargames Illustrated about adapting WAB. Whether this can be tracked down now is perhaps doubtful but it may be worth a try. There’s also some discussion of adapting GW’s LotR rules.
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There’s also some discussion of adapting GW’s LotR rules.
I was going to say this actually. The Fate/Might/Will element for Heroes would work well for Homeric heroes, if the idea was a Mythic version of the Trojan war.
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I’ve been considering the rule set Tribal: Honour is Everything by Mana Press for some time and having just reread the summary wondered if it might have some application in a Homeric setting. While ostensibly geared towards ‘primitive’ non-European warfare - the cover illustration depicts a Polynesian warrior - I gather from previous comments on LAF that the mechanics are readily usable in other contexts.
As the subtitle states, the game is all about accruing honour, which seems not too dissimilar to the motivation of Bronze Age heroes and would-be heroes. It may therefore be worth considering.
Edit: I’ve just learned that the main rule book is OOP but Caliver Books appears to have it in stock - in what quantity I have no idea.
Further edit: Eureka Miniatures UK have stock of the rule book and both supplements.
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Beat me to it. I was going to suggest Tribal as a possible option. I get the impression that the recent Eureka Bronze Age Greek range was commissioned with this in mind.
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What can I say? I appear to be on a roll. And I’ve just noticed a thread from 2012 referring to another old magazine article about using Triumph & Tragedy. Unfortunately I have no idea how to copy and paste on my phone but I assume the threads suggested below this one are visible to everyone.
Also, there is a new RPG by Osprey called Jackals which is set in a mythic Bronze Age. It may be too detailed for the kind of large skirmish game the OP specified, but on the other hand I imagine there must be quite a bit of useful content.
I think I’m about done.
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Thank you All for the very useful suggestions.
I am thinking to a have a go at Tribal. They seem catching the essence of Troy period mainly based on Honour.
By the way they cover Aztec period as well which is among my wargame favourites. (Honestly I like almost all periods :-* :D)
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Is “Tribal” still available? When I last looked it seemed to be out-of-print. I would also be interested in it for a variety of games.
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Eureka have it and one of the supplements showing as available on their website.
https://www.eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=675_678
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We have had great fun using Lions Rampant in the past. It's our goto game for this size of battle.
Chech out our thread
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=86533.0
Cheers
Erik
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Eureka have it and one of the supplements showing as available on their website.
https://www.eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=675_678
+1
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We have had great fun using Lions Rampant in the past. It's our goto game for this size of battle.
Chech out our thread
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=86533.0
Cheers
Erik
This is another option Thanks. :)
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Mortal gods would be my suggestion I think.
Cheers
Matt
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Sharpe 52
We have used a Modified version of Lion Rampant , we call Paris Rampant.
My mate Rolf put them together , they work really well.
We have a major hero and a minor hero for each player , and you can pump up the amount of attack dice per hero .
For example Achilles Myrmadons, it has Achilles and his elite Body Guard of 6 guys , then 2 units of 12 normal Myrmadons , plus a unit of 6 archers .
Achilles can add up to 6 extra attack dice ( similar to Hector ) most major leaders have 3 to 4 extra attack dice , minor leader 2 dice.
This makes the heoes quite powerfull, as they should be !!!
The Lion Rampant Rules system is quite elegant , and allow lots of customisation, and they work with big games.
Our last encounter was 8 players on my 15 x 6 ft Table 600 figures , 30 cav , and 35 chariots, 16 heroes , and the walls of Troy in the back ground ..lol
It looked quite good ...
Hope this helps
Cheers.
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Lion Rampant is what I use. There was a Bronze Age adaptation in Wargames Illustrated? Really fits the period.
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Lion Rampant is what I use. There was a Bronze Age adaptation in Wargames Illustrated? Really fits the period.
Thank you for your suggestion :)
I wish I could know the issue where this adaptation was published . I've got plenty of back issues of WI magazine but not so well filed :'(
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Sharpe 52
We have used a Modified version of Lion Rampant , we call Paris Rampant.
My mate Rolf put them together , they work really well.
We have a major hero and a minor hero for each player , and you can pump up the amount of attack dice per hero .
For example Achilles Myrmadons, it has Achilles and his elite Body Guard of 6 guys , then 2 units of 12 normal Myrmadons , plus a unit of 6 archers .
Achilles can add up to 6 extra attack dice ( similar to Hector ) most major leaders have 3 to 4 extra attack dice , minor leader 2 dice.
This makes the heoes quite powerfull, as they should be !!!
The Lion Rampant Rules system is quite elegant , and allow lots of customisation, and they work with big games.
Our last encounter was 8 players on my 15 x 6 ft Table 600 figures , 30 cav , and 35 chariots, 16 heroes , and the walls of Troy in the back ground ..lol
It looked quite good ...
Hope this helps
Cheers.
Thanks :) It looks quite interesting. Do you mind sharing your custom rules? If the answer is yes I let you know my PM
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Von Akers, can you tell us more about how you use heroes? I am doing Middle Earth "Glaurung Rampant" and have heroes a bit like you do. So far I only allow 3 extra dice for most and 4 extra for extra powerful characters. Perhaps I am being too restrictive? In my rules the more dice a hero uses the more risk they have in combat.
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Is “Tribal” still available? When I last looked it seemed to be out-of-print. I would also be interested in it for a variety of games.
A second edition is to release later this year :) Trojan War and other bronze age things will have a dedicated section as far as I know ;)
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For what it's worth Footsore have said there is likely to be a Trojan War supplement for Mortal Gods this year.
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For what it's worth Footsore have said there is likely to be a Trojan War supplement for Mortal Gods this year.
Not a bad new :) Even if IMHO Test of Honour is far better than MG :(
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“Wargames, Soldiers & Strategy” # 82 has an article providing a Bronze Age variant for “Lion Rampant” called ‘Chariot Rampant.’ You can purchase a pdf copy from the Karwansaray webstore.
I think “Dragon Rampant” might actually allow for an easier process of warband building than LR since the former lacks the medieval terminology of the latter; permits Single or Reduced Model units to easily reflect the powerful Heroes such as Achilles and Hector; the Wild Charge unit trait easily provides a design for effect rule limiting command and control of the more aristocratic units; has many different unit types and traits giving many customization options; and has the fantastical elements already ‘baked in’ should you prefer Homer to history. Of course, the shortcomings of the activation system and the lack of unit flanks may degrade your enjoyment of the system.
“Sword & Spear” is a significantly ‘heavier’ option with lots of interesting tactical decisions based on the pulling and rolling of dice to reflect command and control and battlefield friction. The Army Lists are free on the publisher’s website, but does not have an entry for the ‘Trojans.’ I would suggest using the Hittite list as the Trojans may have been Hittite vassals or allies. You could also use the Minoan and Early Mycenaean list as Homer describes the Greeks and Trojans as fighting in the same manner.
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Ethelred
From Memory we only give 5 or 6 extra attack dice to Achilles or Hektor.
They are the Uber Heroes.
The next Tier is characters like ,Greater Ajax, Diomedes , Odysseus , and Aeneus, Sarpedon get 3 or 4 bonus dice
Lesser Heroes maybe 2 dice.. Paris only gets one combat dice but 2 shooting dice .
Hope this helps
Cheers
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OOps almost forgot
Chariots are in squadrons of 3 , Heavy chariots in 2.
Some spear blocks / regts we run 12 spearmen , and a musician , standard , and 4 archers in the 3rd back rank.(looks much better with a bit of bulk )
Thus the spear block does have a small shooting ability, 6 dice .
casualties come off the front rank for combat.
There are several warband units ( Lukka and Myrmadons )
Several light inf swordsmen units .
Several units of Cavalry ( Redoubt) 6 figures each .
about 24 units of 6 skirmishers , bow javelin sling
We do have veteran units and they have Front Rank fighters in the front rank ( mostly foundry ) , they fight a bit better.
The Final unit I call the Sons of Priam ,or Trojan Heavy Inf , mostly in Dendra Armour ( Redoubt Miniatures ) they look great .
Cheers
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I'm building some Trojan war armies for To the Strongest as a big battle approach. The major heroes will be generals and leaders and the lesser ones hero tokens.
This is interesting though as has got me thinking about skirmish level gaming for it too so will be interested to see how you get on. Might be easy enough to homebrew a system with the right flavour, especially of there's already a set of skirmish game mechanics you like as a base.
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https://app.box.com/s/6o501pmpgq7n3kpsvorqav2j0msxjf0w
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Not sure about how to handle a more realistic take on it, but, locally, there were a couple times that people have put on events using "Of Gods And Mortals" to handle it.
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https://app.box.com/s/6o501pmpgq7n3kpsvorqav2j0msxjf0w
I am a fan of those too! lol
I think I need to build a campaign system and some scenarios for it next!
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I confess, you've inspired me to have a go at home-brewing some skirmish rules for the period, as it is ideal for it. Had a brief run with a prototype tonight, good fun and built a nice narrative. Definitely one I'll be tinkering with some more.
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I've used Dux Britannarium from the Two Fat Lardies with a few modifications for heroes.
The Too Fat Lardies 2017 Summer Special contains a Trojan War expansion for Dux Britanniarum by David Parker called 'Sacker of Cities'
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VonAkers, for the mixed spear/now units in DL, how do you cost the unit? Or is it one unit of spears, and a unit of scouts added?
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Hi Barry
Points wise we are playing large games so 60 points per player from memory.
You could add a point or two to the unit cost to have the shooting ability , i suppose we didnt really as both sides had aprox the same number of such units .
In a 24 point game this would be more important .. in our games not so much .
One thing I will say is when all the figures are single based ... Nothing looks better .. its like a diorama ..!!!!!!!!! and is fun to play.
Cheers
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Thanks, I'll have to try it!