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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Antonio J Carrasco on February 23, 2021, 08:31:13 AM
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with a project and lost interest?
Recently has happened to me with a project that I started after participating in a Kickstarter. The campaign was successful, the models delivered in time, well casted, beautiful sculpts and I love the period... What happened then? Why I got so frustrated that I am thinking about selling the collection and forget I ever even tried? Well, it is the hands. Or to be more exact: drilling holes in the hands of the models, for the weapons!
I am used to do it. It is not like I am a novice there, but in this particular line the hands are so small that I can't for the life of me drill a straight hole on them! After literally destroying with the drill the hands of two models, I got frustrated and stopped trying. I can't find the willpower to try again. And it buggers me, because I really like the figures and the period! :'(
It has ever happened something similar to you? Or is it just me and I need wargaming therapy?
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I feel your pain on the modelling front.
But for me its all the different rulesets?
So many sci-fi ones, but what one to settle on? Sometimes there is such a thing as too much choice.
I decide, then change, then decide then change and achieve nothing but a perfect stasis of will, its all very frustrating, lockdown not helping either >:( >:( >:(
Oh well :-[ lol ;D
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Yup
Drilling quar neck holes for the early versions of the Crusaders!
I also tend to get bored painting too much of the same thing, so uniformed armies don't tend to do well :-/
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I feel your pain on the modelling front.
But for me its all the different rulesets?
So many sci-fi ones, but what one to settle on? Sometimes there is such a thing as too much choice.
I decide, then change, then decide then change and achieve nothing but a perfect stasis of will, its all very frustrating, lockdown not helping either >:( >:( >:(
Oh well :-[ lol ;D
Rules... Man! That is a fascinating topic in itself! I have lost count how many times I have rebased models, only to discover later that I didn't like the rules, or nobody used them in my area! And what about those that present a new iteration each three or four years and the models that you painstainkingly collect and paint become redudant? (Yes, I am looking at YOU, GW!) That was one of the reasons I stopped playing 40K altogether and went back to historicals only. At least I know that a French Grenadier will be a F****G French Grenadier from now until Hell freezes over! lol
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Yes, sadly on many projects. :?
My top reasons, in no particular order:
1) Mini prep.
Removal of integral bases that encase the models' feet like Mafia-style concrete shoes, mouldines that border on mould slip, models that just don't fit together properly, huge amounts of putty work, spindly parts that bend/break but are nightmarish to pin, etc. I actually enjoy mini assembly (it's my favourite stage I think, especially when a coat of primer coalesces your efforts into a "ready" model), but some tasks are just so much work that it saps all my enthusiasm.
2) Mini material.
I just don't get on with some materials at all, and I find others to vary greatly. The PVC that Mantic uses is just not worth my effort, even though I acknowledge it has some advantages from a modelling point of view. The tin that Privateer Press uses is so hard, that drilling the feet for pins blunts my drill bits awfully fast and after doing a squad of models I usually end up with blisters on my fingers (even though I use carbide drill bits). Finecast resin is, er, well I avoid it like the plague. :-X
3) Extensive conversions.
I like building models, and I like converting. I do sometimes over-commit to tasks though, and extensively converting a big block of models is very hard going. (By "converting", I don't mean bits-swapping; I mean extensive cutting, pinning, puttying, etc). I fall into this trap when I like the idea of a force/faction/army but not the models, or the models are limited/not equipped as I'd like, or even simply that models are not available.
I have a WHFB Chaos army that has a block of converted Chosen (20nr), a block of Warriors with great weapons (18nr, all converted weapons and heads), a block of Warriors with halberds (18nr, all converted weapons and heads again), and a block of Marauders (20nr, all with converted great weapons, head swaps, and custom command). As these are based on the old 5E/6E/7E plastics, they are a lot of work anyway regardless of the additional conversion work; the above additional conversion efforts have stalled this project hard three times in as many years now. :(
4) Boring or difficult colour scheme.
I find that some "simple" schemes are often very boring to paint, and that many "interesting" schemes take me too long to finish. I like painting, and can even batch paint around 20 models/pieces at a time well enough, but I lose steam quickly. Slightly tangentially to this point, I also find excessive details on models also bog me down hugely, and result in getting models finished becoming a very drawn-out process.
I have a Black Legion Chaos Space Marine army, all kitbashed and converted, cleaned, primed, ready to go. Started painting 5 models, and my enthusiasm just left me after only three sessions. I got the models pretty advanced, but the scheme was just missing something that I couldn't put my finger on, and I fell out of love with them. I think this is one I need to revisit with fresh eyes in the future, and probably need to add more colour to them somewhere.
My first Antares project (an all white C3 force) was another frustrating experience where a gritty primer finish, soft model details, and a very tricky colour all ended in abandoning the project. Incredibly though, I lost enthusiasm just after completing all the white... ::)
5) Project size.
Tricky one this, but generally if a project gets too big (number of models), I get overwhelmed. If I curtail my tendencies and focus on just a little force, I feel disappointed at the end that my efforts didn't end with a playable force, or a force that after a few games feels utterly stale. I really don't think I've ever hit my balance with this, and many projects remain very unfinished as a result.
The closest I came to "success" here was with my old Malifaux crews - the low model count, individual models, and complex gameplay has meant that the crews I did (mostly) finish have been fun to play. The models are also not too complex in terms of details to paint, and most are reasonably simple to assemble.
6) Perfectionism.
"Perfection is the enemy of done"... Or so I've heard! ;D
I know what I'm capable of achieving, and for some reason I feel that producing anything less than my absolute best is not worth doing, even though "my best" is a supreme amount of effort/work. I'm working to de-program myself of this mindset, but I find it very hard. I realise that I am likely to only ever paint a given set of models once, since I have so many other things I want to do as well, that I'd never have time otherwise. I therefore feel obliged to do the best I can, even though it results in lots of unfinished things, all abandoned in frustration anyway. It also means that I don't usually play many games where everything is properly finished, which for me does reduce my overall enjoyment. I last had fully-painted and finished armies when I was in my mid-teens, and I cut so many corners and made so many poor bodges on them, that I just feel sad when I revisit those old minis. Then again, they were done...
An honorary item#7 would be Kickstarters. Too often a KS finishes delivering loooong after I have moved on to other projects, and then results in most of the list above when I do come to tackle it, that I've just stopped participation in all of them now.
The last "big" KS I did was the Mantic Warpath push in 2016, and I found the entire experience so utterly dissatisfying at every level, that I was put off ever doing another one again. (...And Mantic aren't even all that bad by KS standards!)
So yeah, you're absolutely not alone! 8)
One thing I've learned is that it's important to be honest with yourself about whether some things are simply just not fun for you, and to openly consider what options there might be to help you overcome the sticking points in a project. For example, do you have a friend or a professional service that could do all the spears for you? If so, it might be worth approaching them if it lets you get back to what you enjoyed about the project without the part that frustrates you.
And what about those that present a new iteration each three or four years and the models that you painstainkingly collect and paint become redudant? (Yes, I am looking at YOU, GW!) That was one of the reasons I stopped playing 40K altogether and went back to historicals only.
Eh, I find that sometimes accusations like this are a bit unfair. If you had a squad of 10 Tactical Space Marines, with a common heavy weapon, a special weapon, and a modestly-equipped sergeant in it, then I think that's been "legal" in every single version of 40k's nine editions. And the same is also true of most of the other units that I can think of too... Only if you built something that was specific to a particular edition (like, say, a Space Marine Command Squad, all on bikes, and all with a specific weapon loadout), or you bought a large number of a specific unit type for a themed force, would you maybe have some problems with using them in a different edition. Even base sizes is a bit of an overwrought argument, as GW have always said that you can keep models on the bases that you had them on originally.
Arguments about the games' overall balance, and also regarding specific unit utility, are all valid IMO though. (That said, probably a discussion for another thread! ;) )
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......but in this particular line the hands are so small that I can't for the life of me drill a straight hole on them! After literally destroying with the drill the hands of two models, I got frustrated and stopped trying. I can't find the willpower to try again. And it buggers me, because I really like the figures and the period! :'(
You may find it easier to use a fine edged file or a saw blade and create a slot in the hand rather than trying to drill through it. I went through a similar struggle with my MM era Essex 15mm renaissance figures. Cut the treetrunk pikes out and then cursed the task of inserting piano wire for about 5 years before getting the bulk of them done. Still have a dozen or so packs awaiting the motivation to continue the struggle.
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You may find it easier to use a fine edged file or a saw blade and create a slot in the hand rather than trying to drill through it. I went through a similar struggle with my MM era Essex 15mm renaissance figures. Cut the treetrunk pikes out and then cursed the task of inserting piano wire for about 5 years before getting the bulk of them done. Still have a dozen or so packs awaiting the motivation to continue the struggle.
I tried that in the second model. Problem is that the position of the hand makes difficult to insert the blade and work with it. I was even thinking to get rid of the hands altogether and re-sculpt them with putty. The frustrating thing is that many people that have the same models haven't reported any issues , thus I know is something I must be doing wrong. Or could it be my drills? I haven't had the same issue with other models... but maybe my drills don't work well with the alloy used in these particular models. ???
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Problem is that the position of the hand makes difficult to insert the blade and work with it. I was even thinking to get rid of the hands altogether and re-sculpt them with putty. The frustrating thing is that many people that have the same models haven't reported any issues , thus I know is something I must be doing wrong. Or could it be my drills? I haven't had the same issue with other models... but maybe my drills don't work well with the alloy used in these particular models. ???
Do you have any photos of the issue and what you're trying to do? It might be something we can help with?
My suspicion is that you're trying to drill with bits that are too big initially, and that you're not "centring" the position of the initial drill bit bite. You need to start with something like an awl (https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/01/18/istock-692577204_wide-e14bff1ec8bf8c706902784ca4bd76715d3d5a0e.jpg?s=1400) to create a little divot for the drill bit to get purchase on, and start with a much smaller drill bit (and go slowly, removing swarf as you progress). After that, step up the hole size until you're very slightly larger than the spear, and you're done. Likely to be more work than you expected, but if it saves the figures' hands, then it's your best choice IMO.
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From what you have described I would say you haven't so much got frustrated as hit a wall.
The figures need spears. Your attempts are mashing the models so they can't be given spears. Ergo you have reached an impasse with these models.
If you post a request to the modelling forum you might get some good tips and tricks for giving the models spears. This would then give you another route to attack the problem and give you your motivation back.
Good luck!
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I found a very pointy thing in a sewing department a few years ago (it was next to the toy deparment :D).
I don't know what it's called, but it reminds me of a straight dental probe and it's great for putting in a centre hole when drilling.
I tend to start with 0.5mm and work out from there. As the Major said, it takes longer, but is a lot less prone to damage. Candle wax on the drill bit to keep things lubricated also helps, especially with some of the tougher metals.
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Do you have any photos of the issue and what you're trying to do? It might be something we can help with?
My suspicion is that you're trying to drill with bits that are too big initially, and that you're not "centring" the position of the initial drill bit bite. You need to start with something like an awl (https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/01/18/istock-692577204_wide-e14bff1ec8bf8c706902784ca4bd76715d3d5a0e.jpg?s=1400) to create a little divot for the drill bit to get purchase on, and start with a much smaller drill bit (and go slowly, removing swarf as you progress). After that, step up the hole size until you're very slightly larger than the spear, and you're done. Likely to be more work than you expected, but if it saves the figures' hands, then it's your best choice IMO.
I'll try follow your advice and see if it works. I don't mind the extra work. It is not a big project, so not that many models involved. Thanks!
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Candle wax on the drill bit to keep things lubricated also helps, especially with some of the tougher metals.
That's a very good advice and I have already used it in other projects but somehow forgot about it!! lol
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Do you stick to one project or rotate? I find if I get frustrated with one thing (too much of painting the same, too many horses, too much fiddly prep) switching to something else for a while helps. If I've a lot of projects on the go I'll make a list and roll a dice then do whatever comes up. Might just be one unit of a few figures, then roll again and onto something else. Then I find I'll generally get excited about one of them and focus on it a while.
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Candle wax on the drill bit to keep things lubricated also helps, especially with some of the tougher metals.
That's a very good advice and I have already used it in other projects but somehow forgot about it!! lol
Yeah, I use the candle wax trick too - on lead models, and using very small drill bits, it's almost essential!
(As a by-the-by, putting a little white chalk on your files from time to time also stops them getting quite so gummed up when filing lead/metal figures. ;) )
Another thing to keep a lookout for when you buy drill bits is whether they are "rolled" or "ground". Rolled is much cheaper, but ground are much sharper and more uniformly-fluted. The ground bits make drilling much easier, although I note that very small sizes of drill bit (typically 0.7mm and smaller) are only offered as "rolled" anyway.
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ive lost much use of my hands....my hobby is over.
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In the past I had various projects at different states of completion, usually different scales, different companies and different rules. Most would get abandoned due to the amount of work and I would look for something new and shiny that was more exciting.
After dealing with this for a long time I decided to try settle on a single scale and period, the idea being that it could be used for either small or medium skirmish games, which are my preferred sizes for games.
My big project for the last 2 and a half years or so has been 28mm Sengoku Jidai Japanese. I've completed and painted about 80 minis and a good amount of terrain and I made a fair effort not to start other projects, after many years of uncompleted projects. I'm happy with my progress but occasionally I did just need something different. So I have a box of Perry AWI Continentals, built and abandoned. Also a box of Perry Prussians, yup, built and abandoned. Some Foundry minis for Old World Warhammer skirmish ... actually primed and ready to paint. Also I bought the Blood Bowl 2020 box on a whim and I really enjoyed building the black orcs, which are primed and ready for painting.
What these diversions made me realise is that I will be sticking to Japanese for my medium model count gaming. I really couldn't start any other period with 50+ minis a side, it's just too much work and expense. But blood bowl teams, small skirmish bands for various games make a nice distraction and change, so when I go back to my Japanese I have a bit more fire in my belly than if I just plodded on with those alone
Edit: although for a long time I've been toying with the idea of doing some skirmish in 6mm or 10mm, on a shrunk down table. Don't know if it would work for something like Pulp Alley but maybe larger skirmish. One for the future perhaps
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Can't say I have dropped a project because I get frustrated. I have lost interest and moved on.
I have also bought things for a project on a whim and then realized I really don't want to paint these.
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Yes, but more from the realization that its easy to spend money then paint figures, and the more you buy the less inclined you feel to paint.
I have quite a lot of ongoing projects, but bar the big one (15mm sci fi), the rest are small and consist of only a few squads/units. I tend to revolve between projects to keep interested so as to not get painters block.
Now reaching the excellent age of 30, I've noticed I keep coming back to the same time-periods/themes over and over again so I tend to hold onto what I have and have noticed I'm getting it done it fits and starts.
Still make the odd mistake though and buy something I regret but nowhere near as bad as before.
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I rotate projects. I acknowledge that this means that certain projects will take years to complete but it keeps me from getting board.
I've established a two project per scale and genre standard. For example, I'll work on two 10mm fantasy armies at a time. This keeps me from bogging down with a single project and it keeps me from buying more models till I've got room in the line.
I've got two open 10mm slots right now (thanks COVID! Plenty of extra painting time) and have one 28mm fantasy project on the painting table with another still in the box.
Variety helps keep things moving, even if it slows down an individual project.
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ive lost much use of my hands....my hobby is over.
That's awful.
Do you still get to play or was the painting your favourite bit?