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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: abhorsen950 on April 08, 2021, 05:15:03 PM
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Good Evening LAF'ers.
I've been a combination of lurker/commenter but not much of a poster for a very long. I've had more bright ideas than I've had hot dinners in regards to wargaming, something we can probably all relate to?
Something that certainly pipped my curiosity around about a year ago was the 2mm scale. For an individual such as myself, budget + space required has always been a massive barrier to my wargaming dreams and the idea of controlling entire hordes of troops was finally affordable for me.
I'm fully aware it's not for all tastes, so feel free to wander on by, but I'm going to give it a shot.
Over the last year roughly I've picked up a few different bits and bobs, Napoleonics from Irregular to start, followed by more Napoleonics from Forward March Studios which involved my delving into the wonderful world of 3D modelling and printing (even took a crack at designing some Spanish Civil War bits and bobs. Followed by some English Civil War and then, last but not least, some cold war Brits and Russians. Alas, as the best laid plans tend to, real life got in the way, having no opponents (amongst close friends) put me on a bit of a downer and most of the stuff got shelved.
Enough is enough. This blog will hopefully get me to sort myself out, buy the paints I need to get these armies somewhat looking as they should.
My original Napoleonics are based on thin cardboard (old cereal boxes) and painted block colours for armies (not the most pleasing and something I hope to improve over the course of this blog) such as Blue for French and Red for Brits etc, etc.
My English Civil War Armies were based and then undercoated but never progressed on.
With the moderns, I moved to using foamboard and I think this actually looks much better. So will at some stage attempt to rebase all of the armies.
For now, I'll be looking at aiming to complete the moderns and some terrain. Get some games under my belt and keep moving through the existing collection before moving on to newer purchases.
Attached a few images of the entire collection as is and I intend to move forward to the best of my abilities and rectify everything as I go.
Wish me luck, thanks for reading this ridiculously long post and I look forward to having you all along for the ride.
Kind regards,
Steven
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Interested to see where you go with this, I have some WW2 Eastern front stuff, a bit of ECW and some SYW 2mm Irregular stuff sitting in boxes doing nothing, this may give me the impetus to use them. :)
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Nothing wrong with a basic all over paint job - I've just downsized to resin blocks (https://battlescale.com/t/battle-blocks) and find that the paint job matters very little below 6mm :-)
I'll watch your progress with interest and joy.
Have fun.
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Interested to see where you go with this, I have some WW2 Eastern front stuff, a bit of ECW and some SYW 2mm Irregular stuff sitting in boxes doing nothing, this may give me the impetus to use them. :)
Welcome aboard Jambo and thanks for the kind words! Can see myself making an absolute pigs ear of the paint jobs, but having fun doing it! Just put in an order for some more basing products, couple paints I'm short of and fine detail brushes.
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Nothing wrong with a basic all over paint job - I've just downsized to resin blocks (https://battlescale.com/t/battle-blocks) and find that the paint job matters very little below 6mm :-)
I'll watch your progress with interest and joy.
Have fun.
Thanks for the kind words Andrew! Depending on how well it all pans out, all over paint job might be the way forward all told! We shall soon see!
Big fan of wooden blocks! Would love to see yours in action if you've got some pictures!
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Actually have made progress today :o :o
These blogs might actually do the trick. Most of my current scenery given a once over, starting to get some ideas on basing them together in clusters on foamboard rather than individual Monopoly looking pieces, this will also hide the rather rough paint job they've been given as from a far they don't look too dreadful.
British army have been base coated.
Currently awaiting another type of basing material so I can do a sand/greenery mix and a lighter brown colour for my cold war soviet uniforms as well as a few other bits and bobs.
Cheers,
Steven
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Very nice start. I've also a stack of 2mm that I love for mass effect but hard to motivate to paint. I've Crimean War British and Russians done, just the French awaiting the brush.
Also some Pike and Shot units to put together at some point....
My method for basing and painting them was to use modelling paste on mdf bases, embed the strips into it (smoothing slightly to blend) then sprinkling fine sand over.
When it driest it gives a nice natural looking undulating grainy surface. Then I primed them (initially black, but later green to save time). Then paint/dry brush over the ground texture, then for the units themselves block in the main colours. Then try and paint something that kind of looks like the right flag (if you squint and use your imagination) on the tiny space for it.
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Very nice start. I've also a stack of 2mm that I love for mass effect but hard to motivate to paint. I've Crimean War British and Russians done, just the French awaiting the brush.
Appreciate the kind words and you coming aboard! Would love to see your Crimean War pieces if you ever get chance.
Little progress report:
I'm basically in a no mans land at the moment of waiting for brushes, certain paints and basing products to arrive.
However, probably the biggest announcement is, I've ordered a large quantity of MDF/Wooden Hexagons to create a wargames board. I'm a big fan of Bob Corderys The Portable Wargame and I intend to build a table out of these hexagons to comply with the ruleset. I've over ordered so that I can have multiple pieces that will be interchangeable and stackable. I'm basically making my own version of the Heroscape terrain. Wish me luck!
Once the fine detail brushes arrive, I can start dabbing away at the British troops eagerly awaiting painting!
Have a nice weekend!
Steven
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Ooh a board will be interesting.
You can see what I've done so far here with the British in this post https://mmcvhistoryhome.wordpress.com/2020/06/01/projects-update-may-2020/ (near the bottom)
And the Russians
https://mmcvhistoryhome.wordpress.com/2020/07/31/projects-update-july-2020/ (again near the bottom)
Photographing the tiny troops isn't the easiest!
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As someone who cut their wargaming teeth on 6mm scale, I am always intrigued by smaller miniature scales in wargaming. :)
I have often felt (for me personally) that much below 5-6mm tall figures is not going to be very miniature-focused (too small for any appreciable detail), and that if such scales are preferred for cost and storage reasons, then I may well go the whole way and make everything as counters/boardgame tokens.
I'm therefore very curious to see how you get on, and look forward to your progress updates.
However, probably the biggest announcement is, I've ordered a large quantity of MDF/Wooden Hexagons to create a wargames board. I'm a big fan of Bob Corderys The Portable Wargame and I intend to build a table out of these hexagons to comply with the ruleset. I've over ordered so that I can have multiple pieces that will be interchangeable and stackable. I'm basically making my own version of the Heroscape terrain.
Interesting! How big/thick are your tiles, out of curiosity?
Also, would foamboard (or foamed PVC) not have been a lighter and cheaper option than MDF? Bit bulkier I suppose, but the thickness would allow you to carve roads and rivers into them if you wanted to.
Finally, how will you store these? Wouldn't any sculpted detail one these get squashed when stored, or will all terrain be modelled on as "flat", and then have loose scatter items for trees, buildings, etc?
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I've been considering 2mm for English Civil War big battles but not jumped in yet, after doing some small scale 1:1200ish scenery for coastline bits for WW2 naval gaming.
Looking forward to following this and seeing how you get on, it might inspire me to actually organize some ECW/TYW pike and shot stuff...
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Ooh a board will be interesting.
You can see what I've done so far here with the British in this post https://mmcvhistoryhome.wordpress.com/2020/06/01/projects-update-may-2020/ (near the bottom)
And the Russians
https://mmcvhistoryhome.wordpress.com/2020/07/31/projects-update-july-2020/ (again near the bottom)
Photographing the tiny troops isn't the easiest!
Really excited about building the board, it's something I've never done before and I think will be super fun once it's done.
Appreciate you sharing those photographs, If I can get anywhere near to that standard I'll be over the moon!
As someone who cut their wargaming teeth on 6mm scale, I am always intrigued by smaller miniature scales in wargaming. :)
I have often felt (for me personally) that much below 5-6mm tall figures is not going to be very miniature-focused (too small for any appreciable detail), and that if such scales are preferred for cost and storage reasons, then I may well go the whole way and make everything as counters/boardgame tokens.
I'm therefore very curious to see how you get on, and look forward to your progress updates.
Interesting! How big/thick are your tiles, out of curiosity?
Also, would foamboard (or foamed PVC) not have been a lighter and cheaper option than MDF? Bit bulkier I suppose, but the thickness would allow you to carve roads and rivers into them if you wanted to.
Finally, how will you store these? Wouldn't any sculpted detail one these get squashed when stored, or will all terrain be modelled on as "flat", and then have loose scatter items for trees, buildings, etc?
I do totally get where you are coming from and to be honest I have no issue with the boardgame type token method. However, there's something about lining up a bucket load of 2mm troops that makes me smirk. I actually feel like the general then!!
In regards to the hexagons, they are 25mm by 30mm roughly (my troops are based on 20 - 25mm square bases so should be fine) and 3mm thick. My initial plan is to do a 8x9 or 10x10 battle matt type deal. Probably gluing them into formation on a sheet of plywood and then my terrain pieces (trees, built up areas, rivers, ponds etc) I'll lay on top in a stack like system .
Your suggestion of foam board is actually a good one and one I hadn't thought of so I'm going to write that down! I was hoping to do another one slightly bigger in the future and foamboard might be the way to go as the bigger the hexagon the price does go up.
The wooden ones in question I bought three bags of 60 for £8.60 posted so really not too drastic at all. Storage wise, if I build it as a fixed matt that will store flat. Terrain pieces I will store in a separate box and take out as and when I need. Hopefully I can show you some photographs soon to explain better than my words probably are! It all makes sense in my head o_o lol
I've been considering 2mm for English Civil War big battles but not jumped in yet, after doing some small scale 1:1200ish scenery for coastline bits for WW2 naval gaming.
Looking forward to following this and seeing how you get on, it might inspire me to actually organize some ECW/TYW pike and shot stuff...
For me, the thought that I can pick up a complete army for £15 (the price of 3 - 4 pints in my neck of the woods) is honestly the main selling point for me. Followed by low cost of terrain and smaller table needed etc etc.
Glad to have you on board and glad to of helped, hopefully I can get some of these ECW troops up and running and get a game going for you to feast your eyes on!
Thanks everyone for all the feedback and enthusiasm. Really is nice to see. Sadly, I'm waiting for paints (don't have very many at all) and the board pieces to arrive so I can get cracking and actually put my money where my mouth is. I hope to have some photographs for you soon!
Cheers everyone,
Steven
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The postman came. We have progress.
Picture 1) - What came in the mail
Picture 2 & 3) - Examples of the layout. I'm thinking roughly a 10x10 hexagon battle map and then have extra tokens I can stack on top to create hills etc. The 3rd photograph also shows my idea for water, paint some tokens blue to leave over the top. However, now umming and ahhing over this as I might use coloured string instead so the water isn't so prominent. Will report back.
Picture 4) - Hexagons getting there first coat of green.
Picture 5) - An idea I have for my built up areas, have them as tokens to represent towns, villages etc.
Picture 6) - Farm sections got a touch of paint, the grey primer is coming through a little too strong so they'll probably need another going over.
Picture 7) - British Army getting their coat of green. Going to attempt to touch up some details tomorrow and get them based.
Thanks for stopping by gang,
Steven
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Board update
Two pictures attached, one with minis to give you an idea and one without. Sadly, although it looks great (in my opinion, it's exactly what I was aiming for). It's just not big enough and is very fiddly.
Luckily, I popped into my local The Works this evening and they had green felt puzzle mats for £7 so I've grabbed one of those instead. To prevent the hexagons from going to waste, I'm going to use them to mount buildings and trees too and to use as hills regardless.
I've also picked up a black and brown wash for the final touches to my troops.
Sadly this week has ended up me working a fair amount where I should of had days off so not had much time to sit and finish off my British army.
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You've been busy though! There is a balance to find with the smaller scales as you can end up getting very small with measurements of you try and miniaturise too much. Hope the felt works out
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In regards to the hexagons, they are 25mm by 30mm roughly (my troops are based on 20 - 25mm square bases so should be fine) and 3mm thick. My initial plan is to do a 8x9 or 10x10 battle matt type deal. Probably gluing them into formation on a sheet of plywood and then my terrain pieces (trees, built up areas, rivers, ponds etc) I'll lay on top in a stack like system.
Board update
Two pictures attached, one with minis to give you an idea and one without. Sadly, although it looks great (in my opinion, it's exactly what I was aiming for). It's just not big enough and is very fiddly.
Yeah, I was going to point out that it'd be a bit small, with each tile being the same as one your smaller bases of troops, but I didn't as I assumed you'd planned that on purpose! lol
I hope you don't me sticking my oar in, but as I had similar projects back in my youth, I thought I'd pass on the few modest things I learned from those endeavours:
- Squares or rectangles (which are "double squares" in size/shape), or a mix of both, are much easier to line up than hexagons. If you buy suitable material, you can even make them yourself quite easily.
- If you go with hexagons, you gain in being able to turn the pieces more to increase layout variety, but you lose in terms of getting them to fit a space neatly. I would have them professionally cut (to guarantee they fit tightly together) and consider a stack of "infill" pieces for the edges. The infills can either be singles, or a strip of say 4 linked together, or a mix of both. The infills are useful for modelling "edge of board" terrain on, like sheer cliffs or beaches, etc.
- To stop all the pieces moving during play (which they will, because they are small and therefore relatively lightweight), it helps to anchor them in some manner. Magnetic sheeting could be a solution, but I found that putting some self-adhesive velour on the bottom means they don't slide around if you put them on top of a dropcloth - felt is best for the dropcloth, but velour or anything else that the tiles can "grip" onto works just as well.
- The tiles need to be big enough for at least two of your troop stands to occupy at the same time, and preferably bigger. I don't know if you're doing actual measurements or tile-based measurements (like counting squares in a board game) for your game play, but I would make them big enough that you can accommodate either type of ruleset. Eyeballing your models, I would suggest making the tiles with a diameter of about 100-120mm (or bigger).
- If you go for a modular system, it's better to model terrain into the tiles rather than having it loose (too many moving pieces otherwise, begging for the table to be knocked!). Sure, bulky or delicate things like wooded areas or, big buildings/ruins, or large hills can be separate, but anything like small rises, streams/rivers, roads/paths, rough ground, etc is better cut into or sculpted onto the tile. For storage, cut some bubblewrap into sheets to lay between layers of tiles in a box, or use some old small towels, so they don't get scuffed up. The whole lot for a coffee-table sized battlefield would comfortably fit into a plastic tub about the size of a large shoebox.
- For painting and texture, sand can be a bit rough, and flock gets everywhere. Consider the use of a textured spray paint instead, which you can then overspray with the colours you want and wash/drybrush to finish. Whilst it's not as realistic-looking as flock/sand in final appearance, it's a lot kinder to figures and it pretty quick/easy to do. Just make sure that the tiles are all placed tightly edge-to-edge when you spray the texture on, so you don't get any fouling of the tight fit of the edges. I used to use some made by Plastikote purchased in my local DIY store (Homebase), but Rustoleoum do some too, and these can also be bought from Amazon if you don't have a suitable cheap store nearby. If you're lucky, you can even get the sprays in the colours to suit your battlefield (especially if it's a desert theatre), but they will all still need a quick coat of a complimentary-coloured normal paint underneath first - tester pots of wall paint thinned with a little water are ideal for this.
Anyway, despite noting your purchase of a green puzzle felt mat, I hope you don't give up on the terrain tiles, and that my thoughts above are helpful. If you need any suggestions or ideas for appropriate materials, I'm happy to assist. :)
I've also picked up a black and brown wash for the final touches to my troops.
Cool! Looking forward to seeing your progress on the models. :)
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I hope you don't me sticking my oar in, but as I had similar projects back in my youth, I thought I'd pass on the few modest things I learned from those endeavours:
Cool! Looking forward to seeing your progress on the models. :)
Thanks for all your tips, yeah I've realised they are a little bit too small. Hence why I bought the felt cloth. But I've made a small board anyway. I committed to my idea and keeps the idea of The Portable Wargame very much alive. If I was to do it again, I would definitely make the hexagons much, much bigger!
I've finished my British army, quite pleased I managed to dab a blue windscreen onto the command vehicle. I also dabbed in silver some turret barrels, although it doesn't look perfectly accurate it helps for identification of LMG teams and light artillery barrels.
First round of basing done, not too concerned about the gaps for now because I'll do another dotted layer of some green flock to make a shrubland effect on the bases.
Finally got a day off to make some progress! Going to get the Russians basecoated.
Thanks guys,
Steven
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Glad to see you're making progress - hopefully the recent sunny weather on the weekend has also helped you as well? :)
Did you stick all the hexagons together into one sheet...? (It looks like you did from the photo, but I can't tell).
Also, do you texture the bases the infantry and guns are attached to at all, to blend them into the base? Or do these disappear when you paint them to match the bases?
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Welcome to the beautiful mini-world of 2mm! We are a small but very active sect... btw I suggest you sign up to the very active fb group for ideas.
I myself do LoA and ancients, and plan to expand into napoleonics. I am a big fan of not basing and of using 2mm to play as close to 1 to 1 scale as possible.
Below, see two examples of how I do mine. My LoA infantry battalions in action and a spanish napoleonic battallion in line (defending the treasury!?). As you can see I only go for the mass effect!
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Impressive, are those based on clear plastic?
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Yes the LoA stuff is simply Irregular minis blocks attached with double sided scotch to clear plastic sheets, cut to size. These sheets are the same used in the print shops for first page of documents, etc, so they cost cents, and you can also print the units' names on the back for identification.
Of course this means you will move blocks by touching the minis directly, but you will not mess the paint job I think!
The napoleonic battallion below is not base at all. I am planning to use General de Brigade, so will field a dozen of those a side
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The tiny fire rises!
Your project is coming along just fine. It's a great scale from moderns. All that lovely space between units, probably one of the better figures to ground scale ratios out there. No 30-yard in scale ranges for you, my friend.
I use 1-in craft squares with rounded corners for my teeny little guys. They cost about a nickel a piece and that one inch they work a treat. Consistent, durable, cheap what's not to like? Just poke around Amazon you'll find them.
So far I've got a pretty good lack of train and five black powder armies. Next on the 2 mm block, three fantasy armies. We'll see if there's a way to use them for games of Chainmail.