Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Hobgoblin on April 11, 2021, 12:14:10 PM
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I've never played Kings of War, though I've heard good things about it; I've generally been put off by the unnatural language ("Krudger", "Flagger", etc) and the highly specific-sounding army lists.
But I was thinking about how to make inroads into the plastic mountain, and I thought about putting some big "diorama" units together with an assortment of fantasy and historical spares and bits. A while ago, I built a few 28mm horde bases for Hordes of the Things, but I got only four or five done, as it was just taking so long to get a full army up; it's an irony of HotT that you need twice as many hordes as other units and they take at least twice as long to do as warbands or spears, etc.
But if a single big horde is a viable unit on its own, or even the centrepiece of an army, there's less of a problem. So that got me thinking about Kings of War. I've switched to 1/72 for HotT, so I might start off by rebasing my old hordes (chiefly converted chaos creature) onto a single unit base and then go from there.
The two main ideas I have for an army are a Moorcockian chaos rag-tag and an undead army with troops from lots of historical periods (so a deathly pale hoplite in corroded bronze might be marching alongside an equally unhealthy-looking foot knight in rusty plate).
Anyway, I wanted to ask the KoW players here about which army lists might work well for either or both these approaches, and how many units would be needed for a viable army. Would the chaos horde be a better fit for Abyssals or goblins, for example?
EDIT: just looked at the free rules again, and that takes care of the basing questions! But any pointers on the army types and size much appreciated!
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Was about to reply on basing - but see you have found that! Basically KoW is very multi-basing friendly, and model count isn’t super important.
I’m not really up on the current meta - but armies of 1500-2000 pts are a size we often would play with. Obviously you can play smaller on a smaller table.
The army lists are actually very broad, they have been written to take in the majority of Warhammer models - it might take a bit to get past the naming of the units, but if you look at the stats and what they do you will get a feel for which models will represent your figures the best.
There is a Varangur (sp) list that I think is closest to GW chaos - but it is probably only available in the paid for rules (or even a supplement).
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No easy answer to this really (is there ever?)
KoW allows you to field any army for any playstyle, some are better than others at one playstyle or another, some are crap, but the tactical playstyle is what determines the troops to use not the other way around. Depending on the playstyle you choose you will therefore field your units as "Troop", "Regiment", "Horde" or "Legion". As the units get bigger you sacrifice movement and placement options for staying power. KoW is pretty rigid on how units and terrain interact.
The base size is fixed as are its combat stats, the number of figures is functionally irrelevant, hence the lovely diorama bases the system encourages.
I would recommend you watch through some of the "MasterCrafted" videos on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/c/MasterCrafted/videos
The earlier ones (before Kyle sold his soul to Mantic) are better for the "why" and "how" KoW works, although they are unapologetically 'grown up' in content and presentation and assume the audience are as well. They are also for the earlier versions of the rules.
The later ones cover the actual and newer rules and army/unit choices very well, but are not as critical or entertaining as before.
This later one is a good place to start:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA9vPN_MDdY
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Thanks, fred!
It won't really be GW chaos - these are some of the elements I plan to rebase, so more wretched and corrupted Moorcockian hordes. Not sure what would work best - I guess they'd be infantry rather than heavy infantry, though, so I suppose I can just put a horde base or two together and then see what they'd best fit as.
For a small army - say 1,000 or 1,500 points - how many units are likely to be included? Six or seven?
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The base size is fixed as are its combat stats, the number of figures is functionally irrelevant, hence the lovely diorama bases the system encourages.
Thanks, rob! Yes, it's the diorama base that's the main attraction.
Looking at the free rules again, I see one potential problem in deciding how to base my chaos creatures: are they infantry or heavy infantry? "Heavy infantry" seems to have a special usage in KoW, from what I can see, in that very heavily armoured dwarves seem to be just "infantry".
Apart from orcs, what else counts as "heavy infantry"?
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Apart from orcs, what else counts as "heavy infantry"?
There are a few, iirc Harpies in the Herd and Wild Hunters in the Elves are on 25mm bases.
"Heavy Infantry" is a profile not a troop type.
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Varangur are a sort of warhammer chaos mortals equivalent, their list (which is a variant list of Northern Alliance) is in the Uncharted empires supplement.
Heavy infantry are things like Orcs and Lizardmen, again using a warhammer reference these are things on 25mm square bases not 20mm squares. They are distinct from Large infantry (ogres, trolls etc)
Although the lists are tailored increasingly to the KoW universe they are generic enough that any fantasy type army will find a home. In terms of best fit for your guys id think either Abyssals, or possibly Nightstalkers?
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Thanks, guys - all very helpful!
I've hit on a starting point, I think: undead warriors (zombies? skeletons? wights? whatever!) and Frostgrave gnolls as ghouls (like Arabic ghouls, which sometimes take hyena form).
If I start off working on a regiment (20) of the undead and a troop (10) of the ghouls, with 100mm frontages and 80 and 40mm depths, respectively, I can't go wrong, can I?
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Absolutely foolproof!
Its the unit footprint thats the main thing. There is also the 'preferred model count' which gives a minimum number of models for the element. It obviously doesn't really matter if you aren't going to play in tournaments or whatever but its a good rule of thumb to stick to if you are making scenic bases- which after all is one of the fun thing about a game like KoW. Most of my models are singly based but I like to make bases with scenic elements as unit fillers.
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Thanks, guys - all very helpful!
I've hit on a starting point, I think: undead warriors (zombies? skeletons? wights? whatever!) and Frostgrave gnolls as ghouls (like Arabic ghouls, which sometimes take hyena form).
If I start off working on a regiment (20) of the undead and a troop (10) of the ghouls, with 100mm frontages and 80 and 40mm depths, respectively, I can't go wrong, can I?
Remember that the number of models for a regiment or troop (or horde or legion FTM) is fluid, it's really the base footprint that matters mechanically. If you want a regiment with 17 or 23 ghouls (or even 40 with them riding each other piggyback...) it won't change anything in the game. Much like Dragon Rampant, you can usually just paint what you want to paint based on aesthetics, although KoW is more fussy about unit base sizes.
EDIT: Whoop, beaten to it. :) Well, let me just add - that is the best use of a spare Ogre head I've ever seen. Need to get a few of those for my bits box...
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Hobgoblin - before you get to far into building big bases for KoW I would suggest getting a game or two in. There are a few bits of KoW that are pretty marmite (love or hate) for most people. The biggest being that you only cause damage when you are charging /attacking (not when defending). Flanks are pretty wide, and hitting flanks gives double attacks so is key.
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Hobgoblin - before you get to far into building big bases for KoW I would suggest getting a game or two in. There are a few bits of KoW that are pretty marmite (love or hate) for most people. The biggest being that you only cause damage when you are charging /attacking (not when defending). Flanks are pretty wide, and hitting flanks gives double attacks so is key.
Thanks, fred - that's certainly good advice. I think this project might be more about the journey than the getting there, though; I'm not going to buy the full rulebook until the armies are built.
My fallback plan is this. I'm not going to build any "horde" bases (double frontage) until I've played the game. So the units I do build will be viable for Oathmark, Book of War or even One Hour Wargames. I think double-frontage units are the point of no return, so I'll hold off on those until I've garnered some experience.
I suppose I'm really just looking for an excuse to use up surplus models and build some diorama bases! If KoW isn't my cup of tea, I should be able to find plenty of uses for troop and regiment units elsewhere.
It occurs to me that I've got two lots of those GW ghosts that were free with a partwork thing a while back. That should get me a wraith troop or two.
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Good stuff - I’d certainly suggest building troop and regiment sized bases. As even if you play lots of KoW it gives you options on how to field your force. And two regiment bases together is easy to play as a horde base anyway.
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Good stuff - I’d certainly suggest building troop and regiment sized bases. As even if you play lots of KoW it gives you options on how to field your force. And two regiment bases together is easy to play as a horde base anyway.
Yes, good point!
I'm hoping the undead army will offer lots of scope for diorama bases - opened tombs, gothic sculptures and so on.
I see the Lower Abyssals are on 20mm bases, so that's probably the best option for my chaos creatures, who're a pretty demonic bunch on the whole. I'll do some planning and see if I can get a sample "regiment" put together fairly quickly. I might not even have to split up some of the bases, but simply blend them in with other odd figures.
For the undead, do I need a certain number of staple shamblers without much armour? I have loads of Perry knights that could be topped with skulls, but I wonder if they might be best as more elite types.
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With KoW list building there is very little ‘need’ to them - which can make it a bit hard to know where to start. The main need is to have Regiments or Hordes to unlock Heroes and Warmachines. But most lists have lots of regiment and horde options.
You don’t need to take Zombies in the undead list, but they are a very effective tar pit unit in the game. There are some very powerful undead infantry, and I think the Perry knight bodies would work better for them.
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Ah - excellent! Thanks! So regiments of revenants (or whatever) will work fine?
I've just had a root around and have put some GW skulls on top of Perry foot-knight bodies and have dug up some gnollish ghouls. I've definitely got enough for troops of both at the moment - and possibly regiments if I dig deeper.
One good thing about diorama bases is that it'll be easy to recycle figures that I've based on slottabases in the past, as they can be posed on higher ground if the base is hard to remove entirely. So I think various aborted Perry-knight projects can be recycled once their components are covered in suitable grime and rust, with skull-faced peers at the front.
I've also got at least half a sprue of GW Hobbit goblins kicking around. I've used some as individually based ghouls, so I might see how the remainder work mixed in with the gnolls (I use both mixed together as ghouls in D&D).
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Good thinking on hiding the slotta bases as higher ground. I’ve got 40 spearmen from one of the old regiments of renown that would make a good KoW horde, but how to do something with the slotta bases is a pain. Perhaps I should just glue the slotta bases down to a square of plastic card, then fill the gaps between the bevelled edges, and then put the figures in, filling all the spare bits of the slotta gaps. Still sounds like a lot of work! I wonder if I could get an base with the right insets laser cut in MDF?
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I find that a pair of pliers usually helps with slottabases! You can usually pry the base away without damaging the paintwork on the figure.
But 40 might be a bit of a tall order - especially if they're nicely based already. I'm think that the odd gnoll on a slottabase can end up on a rock miliputted round his base. Or if I plier the base away, he can just be on a marginally higher bit of ground.
I gather that Warbases can work wonders with bespoke orders, so you might be able to get a custom solution there.
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The existing slotta bases aren’t the problem - back in the day painting them green was the extent of my basing, and the figures were just pushed into the gap, no glue. It’s more about dealing with the tabs - and especially as these are late 80s figures, I don’t really want to snap the tabs off. The MDF option does sound the most practical - it will just need a bit of measuring to work out the spacing and size of the holes for the slotta tabs.
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You could always use two strips of sprue or equivalent to create a long slot for them. I've done that when basing slotta-era Chronicle black orcs to match Grenadier Lund orcs. If you used a bit of plasticard on the big base, you could weld sprues down with polystyrene cement to make the slots, then fill the gaps between them with whatever before you superglue the figures in. Then you can just texture over the top with pumice gel or glue and sand, and it's no big deal to cover the tabs. You might want to base them one rank at a time to make the final step easier.
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First step towards a revenant (or something!) regiment:
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Great kitbash!
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Love those. Tremendous work!
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A great start, I’m seeing those in corroded armour.
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Thanks, guys - easiest kitbash in the world! I've assembled a few more now, and I think I've got about 12 in total, plus a few more to be stripped and repurposed. If I can get to 15 or so, I'm good to go for a regiment.
I'll have some with helmets on, though I think it's appropriate to have Wars of the Roses-style undead helmetless and with holes in their heads - shades (in two senses!) of Towton.
A great start, I’m seeing those in corroded armour.
Exactly! I'm not planning on using much in the way of metallics, except for the occasional scratch or sword-edge. Rust all the way!
Meanwhile, I'm on track with the ghouls; I reckon I've got 8 to 10 gnolls lined up. I'm trying to make them look as un-military as possible: just knives or clubs for the most part, with some clutching bones. And I think I may have enough GW ghosts for two troops of wraiths.
The next step will be putting together some draugr-style zombies. I reckon I can go a long way with ordinary historicals assembled in slightly stilted poses, and with lolling heads where appropriate. Then it's just a case of rusted armour, pallid flesh and perhaps glowing eyes. I've easily got enough odds and sods kicking around for a full regiment.
So, if I'm reading the free rules right, that leaves me with two regiments and three troops, with an entitlement to one more troop and a couple of heroes. I've got various necromancer types kicking around, and mixing in GW Hobbit goblins with gnolls might allow me to stretch to two troops of ghouls.
Another rules question: does hero basing matter at all (e.g. 25mm or 20mm)? And do the bases even have to be square?
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Strictly speaking Heroes should be on the bases relevant to whatever type they are (Infantry, Large Infantry, Cavalry etc)
Because they operate individually I dont suppose it would matter hugely if the bases were square or not....
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Strictly speaking Heroes should be on the bases relevant to whatever type they are (Infantry, Large Infantry, Cavalry etc)
Because they operate individually I dont suppose it would matter hugely if the bases were square or not....
Thanks! I'm presuming they only ever contact units with 100mm+ frontages and 40mm+ flanks or other individuals. So if a necromancer happens to be on a 25mm square (or circle) rather than a 20mm one, it can't really make any difference.
I was thinking about how to do orcs for KoW without using Mantic orcs. I've got lots of those, and quite like them, but they're perhaps a little limited for a 20-strong diorama base - and fiddly, too with all those bits of cloth. Orcs with such heavy armour aren't really the norm for most manufacturers. Then it occurred to me that Frostgrave demons might be just the thing. They're great models and have the heavy armour of the Mantic orcs plus the requisite weapon options. I've painted a couple up as 1/72 bugbears, but I might think about using the rest to make an orc regiment. And because they're just armour, flesh and horns, they're very quick to paint up.
Does anyone ever play KoW with ragtag armies made from various lists?
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If you use oversized bases for heroes, you are the one at the disadvantage (though between 20 and 25mm its going to be negligible, and will be down to fitting through gaps, so it really isn’t going to be a thing.)
The core rules include the concept of allies, who can be 25% of your army. What might work better for using random models, is to build the army from one list, and then say these models count as x. The demons sound like they might fit an undead army better (unless you are thinking of the opposing force)
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If you use oversized bases for heroes, you are the one at the disadvantage (though between 20 and 25mm its going to be negligible, and will be down to fitting through gaps, so it really isn’t going to be a thing.)
Aha - thanks!
The core rules include the concept of allies, who can be 25% of your army. What might work better for using random models, is to build the army from one list, and then say these models count as x. The demons sound like they might fit an undead army better (unless you are thinking of the opposing force)
Now that's good to know. So I could build an undead army with an orcish regiment or two.
I suppose the big question is whether the demons are heavy infantry or not (125mm or 100mm frontage). They're really quite a good fit for Mantic orcs (the same height, slightly less bulky, but even more heavily armoured). But are there any heavy-infantry options for the undead?
Again, I really just want an excuse to blitz the 15 or 16 or so demons I have left from the box! So it's really just the basing question that matters.
For the opposing force, at least to start with, I have loads of square-based Nick Lund and Mantic orcs. So I should be able to put together a reasonably sized orc army from those. But if all goes well, I'll look to build up at least a couple of armies with options.
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On the demon/orcs: I see that there are "abyssal guards" (armoured demons) in the Vanguard rules. Do they exist in the main game too? And if so, are they Infantry rather than Heavy Infantry? I'm still leaning towards orcs for the Frostgrave demons, but the abyssal guards seem to be the other obvious option.
On such things the 125mm vs 100mm frontage decision rests!
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Just checking my book, Abyssal Guard are classed as Infnatry.
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Just checking my book, Abyssal Guard are classed as Infnatry.
Many thanks! Decisions, decisions! I'll make up the 15 or 16 I have left and see how they look on 125 and 100mm bases. The demons have quite a broad stance (broader than the Mantic orcs), so they might benefit from the wider base.
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On the demon/orcs: I see that there are "abyssal guards" (armoured demons) in the Vanguard rules.
Speaking of Vanguard, that's a pretty decent set of skirmish rules itself - if you wanted to try smaller games. It's kind of overshadowed by Frostgrave and its cousins these days and I wouldn't quite put it up there with the old classic Mordheim, but if you dig KoW and its setting/armies it's certainly worth a look.
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Thanks - I might give Vanguard another look. I think I downloaded the free rules a while back, but then my eyes glazed over at some point. I'm somewhat allergic to 'fluff' or 'lore' in fantasy games, so I think my intolerance may have got the better of me!
I put a few demons together at lunchtime. I'll almost certainly go with them as orcs - I'd have trouble going over a frontage of three for them on a 100mm base. They occupy about the same space as the Mantic orcs, I think:
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Got hold of some infantry troop and regiment bases to begin this project in earnest (when work and D&D commitments allow!). It looks like the gnolls will be a bit of a tight squeeze as ghouls, though I should be able to get six on a base without problems (is that the "MMC" for a troop). And the demons will definitely have to be orcs (or some other "heavy infantry" designation).
I realised that I actually have some KoW-ready elements ready to go. These penny-based Chronicle orcs are in a 100 x 80 sabot, so all set as a goblin regiment (although there are only 12 of them). And it gives me a spur to paint up the rest of my Chronicle wolfriders, who're ready to go on 50 x 25.
(https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77384.0;attach=89976;image)
I've got a few more of these sabot bases lying around, and lots of 1/72 orcs/goblins to fill them up. So I could actually table an army of sorts today. And I've got enough square-based orcs to put out at least a modestly sized orc army on individual bases (I'll get some appropriate MDF to use as blue-tack movement trays).
Given all that, I cracked and ordered the rulebook in that "War in the Holds" set (pretty cheap from Wayland, and I was going to try out the new goblins and ratkin anyway - the latter might have some potential as 1/72 gnolls, and the goblins might look OK in more naturalistic, Froudian colour scheme).
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I've been working out what I've got that will work with Kings of War and also trying out some paint schemes for the diorama bases. It occurred to me that my chaos creatures, which are based on 25mm squares, or occasionally 50 x 20, would make up a couple of regiments of Lesser Abyssals, near enough, and that the depth discrepancy of 5mm is removed if I use a properly sized unit base as a movement tray. True, there are only 12 on the base, but they kind of look the part, I think. And I can field Oathmark-appropriate dwarves and goblins in the same way. My orcs and hobgoblins are correct on 25s, though I'll probably go with MDF and bluetack for the games.
This goblin is the first for a diorama base: still WIP, but getting there, and quick to do.
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Looking good - I wouldn’t get too hung up on the figure count on the base. I think it is more to ensure the base is fairly full, rather than someone just sticking a couple of small figures on a big base and calling it a unit.
Yours look good - so I can’t see anyone complaining.
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Thanks! Yes, I'm not likely to be playing anyone who's a stickler for things like this. It occurred to me that I might add a 2mm ridge to either side of one of these bases so that the figures could just slide in and be kept in place temporarily. Some 'cornered' plasticard bits might do the trick, with the recess filled in with pumice gel.
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My son and I finally got a game of Kings of War in a few weeks back (using our 1/72 HotT armies with two-element frontages). We both enjoyed it and are keen to play some more. So I've been thinking about what approach to take to the armies.
Because I've been working on my 15mm Glorantha project, I've got lots of spare 15mm stuff lying around. Hewlett's wonderful thread (https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=129272.0) got me thinking about what could be done with 15mm on the standard bases. But then I remembered how long it took me to get a few HotT elements done when I tried to put a 15mm army together on 28mm bases.
So, instead, I had a quick skim through the mountain of extra 1/72 stuff that I've accumulated while putting our HotT armies together. I realised that I've got more than enough to get several full-sized KoW armies together. So I think that's the most efficient way to go.
As 1/72 figures tend to be in quite dynamic poses, they don't tend to rank up much or any more densely than 28s - especially for warriors with two-handed weapons. So I'm probably just going to have 16 figures for a regiment and 8 for a troop, on average. And that got me thinking about Of Armies and Hordes, the Ganesha mass-battle game, in which 16 figures is the largest unit size. It's a grid-based game, so basing doesn't really matter, but it does offer the prospect of using HotT and KoW stuff together.
Anyway, I began today to work out what units I could put together. I reckon the key thing is to get two or three regiments together for a couple of armies, and then add troops (which can be combined to form regiments). For the Basilean list, various early- and late-Medieval types will give me a core of spearmen, swordsmen and foot paladins. And then I can add smaller units of cavalry, archers and scouts. Meanwhile, the Caesar orcs I have will yield two or three regiments that I can supplement with Dark Alliance half-orcs (pikemen as "Long Ax" with the phalanx rule?) and warg riders ("gore riders").
On top of that, I have hordes of Dark Alliance orcs and goblins to use with the goblin list, plus lots of 15mm goblins that will work well enough for rabble units. And then there are Emhar, Orion and Zvezda vikings, which give me the core of a Northern Alliance army. Not quite sure what do about the huscarl "heavy infantry" - maybe just a matter of mounting Dane-axe wielders on the bigger bases.
I have lost of beastmen (Dark Alliance Anubians and Minotaurs, plus Caesar lizardmen) that might work as a Forces of Nature army. And I've got a surprising number of elves to drop into that and the Northern Alliance one.
It's quite nice realising that all those sprues have plenty to offer after the initial harvest for HotT and RPGs. For example, with HaT El Cid stuff, I've used all the spearmen with upright spears for HotT armies (given the narrow bases and need to rank up). Ditto with the DA half-orc pikemen. So all of the more dynamic poses will fit right into this project.
The only new purchase I'm planning to make for this is a handful of the bigger Reaper Bones orcs, which I'll use as ogres. Those have massively wide stances, so they fit well onto 40cm bases and will look suitably scaled for the 1/72 stuff. Otherwise, it looks like I've got three or four armies ready to go already. And of course, our HotT armies can be used to fill in here or there - 120mm frontage is close enough to 125mm for the orcs, and I have a few 40mm bases underway that will allow me to field units of goblins with a 100mm frontage by combining 15mm and 1/72 elements.
Does anyone know whether Uncharted Empires contains a human army with lots of skirmishers and light cavalry? I have loads of spare Andalusians and Almoravids, but there's nothing in the main rulebook that suits them.
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This is the first regiment in progress: paladins with two-handed weapons. It occurs to me that my priority for the goblins should be to complete a few two-figure 40 x 20 goblin bases, as those will combine perfectly with the HotT 60x 40 horde bases to create KoW units.
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Uncharted Empires has the Kingdom of Men army list - which is probably one of the broadest lists as it started life to provide options for Bretonian and Empire based armies. I’ve used this list for my 10mm Araby figures.
I’m not sure it covers much in the way of skirmish infantry - but that’s not a common troop type in KoW. KoM does have several flavours of cavalry, with Mounted Scouts in Troop and Regiment sizes being horse archers, then Sergeants (medium cav) and Knights (heavy cav).
UE is for KoW2 - just had to double check that my self. In KoW3 KoM list is in the core rules.
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Uncharted Empires has the Kingdom of Men army list - which is probably one of the broadest lists as it started life to provide options for Bretonian and Empire based armies. I’ve used this list for my 10mm Araby figures.
I’m not sure it covers much in the way of skirmish infantry - but that’s not a common troop type in KoW. KoM does have several flavours of cavalry, with Mounted Scouts in Troop and Regiment sizes being horse archers, then Sergeants (medium cav) and Knights (heavy cav).
Aha - thanks! I'll proceed cautiously, as my HotT cavalry units will be only a few mm off when doubled up. Perhaps I'll keep the foot slingers and javelin-men for HotT/D3H2 (where long lines of psiloi have already proven a tremendous annoyance in recent games!).
UE is for KoW2 - just had to double check that my self. In KoW3 KoM list is in the core rules.
Hmm ... it's not in the rulebook I have - but it does appear to be in the third-edition UE (https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-3rd-edition-uncharted-empires/).
Anyway, it's good to know that there are some lighter cavalry options. And I imagine the Herd army will be a good fit for a lot of the 1/72 stuff I have lying around. So I'll probably pick UE up eventually - but not until I have a decent amount of forces ready! By focusing on heavily armoured humans and relying on the 60 + 40 trick for my goblins (and doubled-up HotT bases for their cavalry for now), I hope to have two reasonably sized armies ready soon. I already have some monstrous infantry types (large bugbears and trolls) on 50mm squares, and getting some ogres ready shouldn't take long. I really like Reaper orcs as ogres; their tiny heads just make them 'read' right as big monsters, and they look as if they were designed for 40mm bases. I'll probably keep the ogres individually based so that they can work as behemoths in 15mm HotT.
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You are right on UE being for KoW3 - confused myself with too man PDFs
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It’s easily done!
I got a couple of units based up last night: the paladins and some scouts/archers.
I'm also wondering whether my old Ral Partha orcs/giant goblins might find a home in this project. As Mantic orcs are quite large and fearsome, the RP orcs might look the part in 1/72 as one of the fiercer unit types. I do find the 125 vs 100mm frontages mildly annoying - but I could always base them on 100mm frontages in 8s or 16s and then base a few individually on squares to widen the frontage for KoW.
The advantage of that would be that it would allow these large multibases to be used in games where all units have the same frontage (e.g. HotT, which would look good played with big bases on a 6' x 4' table). And it would allow me to keep them correctly based (16 max) for Of Armies and Hordes.
On the other hand, the Caesar 1/72 orcs have such a big 'footprint' - by dint of their huge axes - that the 125mm frontages will work quite well for them.
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I was thinking about the 1/72 orc army and decided to use up some Oathmark goblins and Gripping Beast kitbashes thereof. They’re actually perfectly scaled for 1/72 KoW orcs: at least twice the bulk of a man, though only a bit taller.
For my HotT/D3H2 orc army, I already have a "king's guard" Bd6 (double-based fast blades) unit made up of Oathmark goblins and Gripping Beast Vikings with Oathmark goblin heads. The Oathmark goblins scale very well with the Caesar 1/72 orcs; the former are slightly larger but well within tolerance. The Oathmark sprues will also allow me to do some headswaps to vary the Caesar orcs a little. Unlike in HotT, the KoW units need to be roughly differentiated by weapon, so headswaps will help vary the two-handed axemen, etc., when they're on bigger bases.
I also have some ogres underway, using the large Reaper Bones orcs and the same company's pin-headed barbarians. For the armoured ogre guards in the Basilean list, I'll probably use the few GW Stormcast I have lying around; their small heads will echo the Reaper pinheads.
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Oathmark goblin and Caesar orc: these will be “Morax” (how I cringe at the Mantic names!).
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oh, I really like your 1/72 projects and your creativity on mixing other scales in 8)
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Thanks!
I think the mix of scales is going to be a real help with this project. It'll help to keep the orcs suitably beefy and justify their 'heavy infantry' designation - particularly the archers, as the Caesar bow-orcs aren't the biggest of the breed. They'll also help to keep the Orc army compatible with 28mm armies, should I (or the kids) ever want to play against those.
Happily, I already have a wyvern-riding orc chief in the works - an Oathmark goblin perched on a very old Citadel wyvern. He'll be based on a 60mm square for HotT, rather than the regulation 75mm square for KoW, but I can't imagine that will make a blind bit of difference. If I ever need him on an official base, I can sabot him (perhaps adding a fringe of skulls or something to the 75mm square).
I've been musing on how best to supplement my HotT goblins for KoW. I was going to go with 40mm bases to complete the 100mm frontage, but I reckon I'll go with a few individuals based on squares - so that they can be placed to either side, thus preserving the look of the HotT elements (which have banners, leader-types, etc., in the centre).
One thing that I though might not work properly in 1/72 was cavalry; I thought the smaller-scale horses might be swamped on the 125mm frontage. But I've just tried it out with some Italieri knights, and they look just fine. I think it helps that 28mm horses tend to be undersized while 1/72 horses tend to be to scale.
So far, the 1/72 layouts I've tried have all looked about right with 8 or 16 of the smaller figures. But with shield-armed heavy infantry, I may have to go with more figures on the base. I'm no expert on medieval formations, but I suspect that late-medieval foot knights can't have been too densely packed, given the reliance on poleaxes, which need room to swing. But spear-and-shield types are a different matter. In those cases, I'll just go with whatever looks right, even if it's 25 or 30.
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Oathmark goblin and Caesar orc: these will be “Morax” (how I cringe at the Mantic names!).
I don't know, "one, more" is about what I expect of orc math skills. :)
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I don't know, "one, more" is about what I expect of orc math skills. :)
A fair point! ;)
Today's rain prevented me from spraying the first couple of human units I've based up, but I have the first two ogres underway (I'm going with red skin in tribute to the Mantic originals). I also stumbled across an extra box of Caesar orcs in town today, so have plenty of options for full-sized regiments now. I'll aim for a regiment each of Greatax and Ax to begin with, with the Morax as a troop.
I've decided to keep the Ral Partha orcs on individual 25mm squares - so that they can eventually form units when I have enough done. In the meantime, I'll use them as characters in the orc army - an incentive to get some painted!
I gather that the Salamander army list in UE has some large infantry (like Warhammer troglodytes). Happily, I have three Mantic salamanders on 40mm squares from an old 15mm HotT project, so they'll fill that slot while Caesar lizardmen cover the salamander role.
To maintain impetus on this project, I'm aiming to just pick and choose regiments and accompanying troops/heroes from a range of army lists, going on what I have to hand in 1/72. So the initial armies will be fairly random, but they'll consist of the cores of bigger projects. I reckon I've got enough to make a start on orcs, Basileans/kingdoms of men, goblins, ratkin, elves, salamanders and the Herd - hoovering up all the by-products of our HotT armies and 1/72 RPG projects.
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maybe the new Elhiem fantasy humans could be interessting for one of your projects:
https://www.elhiem.co.uk/ourshop/cat_1678863-FANTASY-20mm-RPG.html
I really like those Mercenaries with sword and buckler and the Mercenary Captains o_o
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Thanks for the tip! I hadn't seen those, and they do look good. I've got most of the Elhiem adventurers, which are terrific. And there's certainly a lot of potential for using those as character models.
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Here's a size comparison of a Ral Partha orc next to a 1/72 human; I reckon the RP fellow is dead on as a big orc hero in this scale. So he'll be the first 'krudger' or 'krumper' or whatever. And, gradually, as I get more of his fellows painted, I'll be able to form an individually based unit of especially big orcs.
And here, too, are the WIP ogres. They're pretty formidably sized at this scale; in fact, both are as big as some of the Citadel ogres I used in Warhammer aeons ago. I got a few more of their ilk based up at lunchtime, so they'll probably be the first full unit completed.
The ogres and the Caesar/Oathmark/RP orcs will give some of these forces a bit of visual validity if they're ever used against 28mm foes. I like the idea of having sub-sets that can be used to create 'scaled-up' armies - as with my HotT 1/72 stuff, where the goblin hordes, orc warbands and behemoths all work fine in 28mm - the former two playing the 'small but vicious' card!
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Some kitbashes for the orc army: a Morax troop (with a couple of spaces to fill) and some headswaps for the Greatax regiment I'm putting together. The Caesar orcs have three or four poses with two-handed weapons and a few more with very large one-handed weapons and no shields. But for a base of 16-20, headswaps and other conversions will be required. These heads are from Wargames Atlantic goblins, which are large, though I don't mind that (big heads are a properly Orcish trait!). I'll also be using Oathmark goblin heads, which are about the same size as the Caesar ones, and simply swapping some Caesar heads over. And I'll do some weapon swaps too.
The Caesar plastic is a bit like the Reaper Bones stuff (though harder) and is highly receptive to superglue and pin vices, which makes all this much easier than it would be with most 1/72 manufacturers.
One good thing about the Caesar orc set is that a lot of the figures can be easily kitbashed into different roles. So the chaps with big axes or clubs and no shields can have shields added, or be left alone and be presumed to be two-handed wielders for the most part, or have additional weapons added to the off-hands.
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I did some digging for trolls at lunchtime. These fellows - along with a big Nick Lund troll who awaits a replacement weapon - will form a horde or a brace of 'regiments'. I have a few more of the Acropolis ones, so I'll probably convert one to bolster the ranks and allow the horned-helmet guy or the Lund fellow to act independently as a 'troll bruiser'.
It helps that three of them are part painted, so I should be able to get the first three finished fairly quickly. They'll look suitably distinct from the ogres, and they're about the right size for Mantic trolls scaled down to 1/72. And all of them will work as behemoths for 15mm HotT and similar games.
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Are you keeping them in the fridge?
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Are you keeping them in the fridge?
Ha! No - it doesn't slow the regeneration sufficiently. They were atop a radiator to speed the drying of the bases. All six are based now, and I should get onto painting them tomorrow.
Meanwhile, the painting of the ogres and humans is well underway; I'm deliberately working on many units at once to keep the momentum going. The plan is to have several quite large armies done by the Christmas holidays - not as tricky a task as it sounds, as three goblin regiments will spring into being with the completion of some 'extras' on individual bases - or one horde. To field a horde of goblins, I only need four 'extras' (I'm quite tempted to base them on all as a single long column) as I'll use all six HotT bases, but I'll need eight for each regiment.
I also - and serendipitously - acquired a whole lot of old Prince August stuff earlier this year, which should allow for some wolf-rider troops/regiments and some individually based orc units.
The orc base sizes make scaling up the HotT units a bit trickier (as they have 60 x 30 bases for a 125 x 100 footprint). That's why I'm building orc units afresh. I reckon a couple of Ral Partha command figures on a 50 x 50 square will do the trick for a war drum.
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Have you thought about sabot bases - 6 Orc bases would fit nicely on a 125x100 sabot
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Have you thought about sabot bases - 6 Orc bases would fit nicely on a 125x100 sabot
Yes - I could probably get something like that from the tremendous Warbases (or just make it myself). One thing, though, is that my HotT orc warbands are less clearly defined, weapons-wise, than the KoW troop types, as most of the HotT elements have a mix of shields and two-handed weapons. That's true of the goblins, too, but they're very clearly "rabble"! So I'm trying to build units (like the Morax one above) with a clear designation. I suspect I may field a slightly dodgy 120 x 90 orc regiment to begin with, though!
It did occur to me that a weird T-shaped base, with a half-centimetre "stalk" and a two-centimentre "head" could be lined with suitable figures to create a base that would lock two HotT bases into a heavy-infantry troop. A sideways figure (like a standard-bearer) on the stalk and three on the head would bring the group up to the regulation ten. But it might just be simple to play with undersized heavy-infantry bases until the regulation ones are finished!
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Whilst base sizes do matter to a fair degree in KoW, I’m not sure 5 or 10mm is critical. An Orc horde with its large footprint is more unwieldy to move through / around terrain and friendly units and allows more enemy units to counter attack it.
I’m not quite getting the T shaped sabot - but I have used sabot bases with a 2 up 1 back arrangement to use 3 Warmaster 40x20mm bases on a 100x50mm sabot for Warband - and those look pretty good. I’d not worry too much about filling the sabot with figures, and I’d not worry at all about bringing units up to full figure count (other than monster types like Ogres or Trolls). KoW even has a rule to allow lower figure count units - which is around 70% of the max size. But basically as long as its obvious what is a troop, a regiment or a horde - and the base size really tells you this - as long as the figure count has a reasonable density and looks good, then you are good to go. This goes double as you are doing both sides and are unlikely to be fielding your 20mm units against the more typical 28mm KoW units.
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Whilst base sizes do matter to a fair degree in KoW, I’m not sure 5 or 10mm is critical. An Orc horde with its large footprint is more unwieldy to move through / around terrain and friendly units and allows more enemy units to counter attack it.
Yes, I'm sure that's right. My main consideration is that the 'goblins' (actually Dark Alliance orcs) will convert easily with a few individuals, whereas the orcs will be slightly trickier and will have to have their role clarified (Ax or Greatax, etc). Also, I have loads of orcs to use up, and I want, in the end, to have as many big-base units as possible for minimal fiddly movement.
I’m not quite getting the T shaped sabot - but I have used sabot bases with a 2 up 1 back arrangement to use 3 Warmaster 40x20mm bases on a 100x50mm sabot for Warband - and those look pretty good.
The T-shape would be quite eccentric - basically, a 5mm spine to sit between two 60 x 30 bases, the spine having one 'flat/sideways' figure (like many 1/72 minis) on it to act as the central figure in the front rank. Then the 125mm x 20mm 'head' of the T would have three figures on it to form a back rank. Or it could just have four figures in the back rank (perhaps with one thrusting a spear along the 5mm spine).
I’d not worry too much about filling the sabot with figures, and I’d not worry at all about bringing units up to full figure count (other than monster types like Ogres or Trolls). KoW even has a rule to allow lower figure count units - which is around 70% of the max size. But basically as long as its obvious what is a troop, a regiment or a horde - and the base size really tells you this - as long as the figure count has a reasonable density and looks good, then you are good to go. This goes double as you are doing both sides and are unlikely to be fielding your 20mm units against the more typical 28mm KoW units.
Yes, I'll probably field some temporary sabots, at least to begin with. Oddly enough, 16 seems to be the magic number for regiments in 1/72; it's quite hard to make them much denser because of the animated poses in that scale. The one big drawback of 1/72 is that most of the 'regiments' I've experimented with so far look like unruly mobs - fine for orcs, barbarians and armoured foot knights with two-handed weapons, but less good for ordinary soldiers!
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Well, it's been a while with this project, but I've been working on some 1/72 human knights and archers - long based and undercoated. I should get those finished in the next few days.
I've also been thinking about orcs. I'm moving to divide my miniatures into 'buckets' so that we get the most use of them. Broadly, those buckets are 1/72 for multi-based rank and flank games (HOTT, KoW, etc); penny-based 'true 25mm' for RPGs; square-based 28mm for large skirmish games and individually based rank and flank; and round slottabased for sci-fi and small-model-count skirmish (Song of Blades, etc.).
Originally, my main reason for the different basing for small and large skirmish was to bring figures with chunky integral bases (Grenadier, Mithril, etc.) to the same height as slottabased figures, so that when they were used together, they would differ in base rims but still look each other in eye.
To that end, I'd based some Prince August and Mithril orcs on square Rendedra bases. But while those orcs are imposing, they're 'off scale' next to the Nick Lund and Citadel figures I'm using for Saga and SoBH, etc. And while they'd be nice for RPGs, I've got plenty of 25mm orc tribes on the go (older Grenadier, Chronicle, Minifigs, etc.), and those figures go onto pennies quite nicely whereas the PA/Mithril stuff demands a 2p at the least - making them seem like even bigger creatures than they are.
So it occurred to me that the best use of those figures would be in 1/72 KoW, where they're suitably imposing as 'heavy infantry' next to 1/72 humans and occupy the appropriate 25mm square. They're also broadly compatible with the Ral Partha giant goblins/half-orcs/orcs that I'm using to bulk out and lead my 1/72 orcs.
(https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77384.0;attach=123056;image)
So I decided to repurpose all the Prince August and Mithril stuff and put it on troop bases. A quick audit revealed enough for four such bases, with 10 figures each, and possibly enough for a fifth (especially if supplemented with Ral Partha duplicates). I also have foot and mounted commanders and a 'flagger'.
At the same time, I realised that I have enough of the original Golgfag's ogres to create a full six-model 'regiment' as allies. They're similarly sized though quite different to the red-skinned Reaper orcs I'm using as ogres for the human army.
So, with four or five 'troop bases', I'll have two regiments or a horde of ax/greatax types as the mainstay of an army, to go along with the other regiment and troop that I already have based (a mixture of Caesar and Oathmark goblins). And, while there's lots of painting to be done, I've got a paint scheme (the grey skin/red livery above) in place.
Onwards!
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It occurred to me that large numbers of trolls and ogres would facilitate the completion of full-size armies (six figures for a 'horde' rather than 40!).
So I've been digging out lots of old metal candidates: the original Golgfag's, Asgard trolls and half-trolls and even an old Bryan Ansell Citadel ogre with wonderfully floppy ears. I've already pressed various Acropolis ugrucks into service, and I'm going to rebase some early Ral Partha and Citadel trolls that have barely been used since I painted them up. I might even press the second edition of Golgfag's into service too. I'm even starting to wonder whether Bob Olley Essex and Iron Claw orcs might be happiest as ogres, though that might be a step too far.
But the easiest way to get lots of 1/72 trolls (or ogres) is to use up some GW orcs.
Putting goblin heads on orcs is a trick I've used before, but it seems the obvious one to go to here. The smaller heads make the bulky bodies more grotesque. I'll probably keep orc heads on some of them, though, to add to the variety, perhaps with some green-stuffed beards or even noses. I might even try making some of them two-headed.
According to the leading source on the subject (Ruth Manning-Sanders' wonderful A Book of Ogres and Trolls), the distinction between ogres and trolls is largely one of geography (and sometimes temperament). So many of the troops I'm assembling will serve as either species as army lists demand.
I'm going to keep all the old metal ogres/trolls individually based, as their weight should help to keep the units nicely formed up. For the lighter plastics, though, I'm going to go with multi-basing, so that the GW-derived ogres and trolls will stay in formation and be readily manoeuvred. I'm aiming to put four 'regiment' bases together, which would allow the deployment of an ogre 'legion' if required.
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Great idea to repurpose the old orcs via a head-swap! It’s funny how well the goblin head fits that body, given the difference in the size of the goblins and orcs.
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Cheers! It helps that those old goblins are so ugly and macrocephalic to begin with - and that they look so trollishly grumpy!
Here's the first completed unit for the 1/72 KoW project - a troop of scouts or archers. They'll probably be "sisterhood scouts" in the Basilean list initially, though I imagine there's something that would suit them in the Kingdoms of Men list, which I have yet to acquire. As with all my HOTT stuff, I haven't quite decided what to do about greenery on the bases - whether to use flock or just to paint it on. I'll probably go with the latter and will then blitz all the bases to ensure some consistency.
I have a regiment of foot knights (paladins) on the go too - and made the fortunate discovery last night of 18 or so individually based 1/72 knights that I'd painted up a few years ago and forgotten about. Those will get rebased for this project, probably as a couple of troops rather than a regiment for maximum flexibility. So I should have two regiments of knights as the building blocks of the human army, along with these scouts and some ogre palace guards (for which I'll use GW Stormcast) and/or ogre allies (Reaper orcs).
I'm hoping that we can get a decent-sized game going in the next couple of weeks. Using large numbers of ogres or trolls as the backbones of both armies seems to be the way to go to get started quickly; three trolls doesn't necessarily take much longer than three humans! And I only need to paint a few individually based Ral Partha goblins to bring all my HOTT goblin hordes into play as KoW units.
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One thing I've been puzzling over for a while is how to base my old Citadel broo. I've got at least 20, and they're lovely old miniatures. I also have a few very early Citadel minotaurs and Trish Carden chaos beastmen, which are compatible. It struck me that if I base them on old-school 25mm squares, they'll work fine in RuneQuest 2 (they're appropriately scaled as a bit larger, on average, than humans with my true-25 RPG stuff), skirmishes and massed-battle games.
In Kings of War, they'd do the trick as either Hunters of the Wild or Longhorns. My experience has been that individually based metal miniatures are fine in rank-and-flank games because their weight allows them to be shunted around en masse without breaking formation.
I think they look OK as quite formidable KoW 'heavy infantry' next to 1/72 figures. And this will allow me to resolve the basing dilemma, paint them up at long last and get most use out of them on the table!
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Those archers look great! Are they the Dark Alliance Southern Kingdom Warriors?
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Thank! And yes, "rangers and scouts".
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Here's a second troop done bar the basing. These are the individually based knights I'd forgotten about. I'll aim to get their base done today; the colour scheme is actually the same as for the archers, but with added 'grass'. That's probably what I'll aim for for the whole lot.
I picked up a box of Caesar's 13th-century knights this morning; they should yield three troops or a regiment and a troop, plus some spares (a good hero or army standard bearer among them). I'm considering whether to paint them in individual heraldry or treat them like members of a military order and standardise the surcoats. Decisions, decisions ...
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The look great
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The speed and quality you crank models out amaze me. Well done.
Are these knights Caesar?
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Thanks, both!
The speed and quality you crank models out amaze me. Well done.
These guys were done about a year ago - they're just being rebased. So I'm cheating a bit!
Are these knights Caesar?
Yes, they're Caesar 15th-century knights. I'm making a start on the 13th-century chaps this evening; I've decided to paint them in a vaguely military-order Crusader fashion, for speed if nothing else! I noticed that the local model shop also had the dismounted Crusaders in stock; I may be tempted to add those too to mix and match with the 13th-century guys. It's a shame Caesar doesn't do much in the way of cavalry; the plastic they use is by far the best in the 1/72 world for glueing, painting and converting.
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I was surveying our 1/72 hoard (and indeed hordes) while looking through the KoW rulebook. I noticed the orcling swarms in the orc army list and immediately though of the Caesar goblins. It turns out that I have 29 of these left over - just enough to create six bases (two regiments or a horde) with the standard bearer given appropriate space so that one base contains four rather than five. If five would work better, I might add a Magister Militimum 18mm orc or something as a fierce-looking leader - or a spare Citadel snotting.
I always like to maximise the versatility of any miniatures I paint up. The good thing about swarm bases is that they'll work as hordes in 15mm Hordes of the Things (using the first-edition square bases - you're allowed to vary base depth in HOTT). So a horde for KoW will give me six hordes for 15mm HOTT, which I occasionally play. And any three of our KoW ogres and trolls will give me half an army in HOTT behemoths. On top of that, the swarm bases will be handy for RPGs.
Then I thought about the question of bringing our 1/72 HOTT hordes (60 x 40mm bases) into KoW. Adding some Dark Alliance orcs on 40 x 40 bases would sort out that problem, so that a 60 x 40 and a 40 x 40 make a troop. If I paint up two units of DA orcs on 40 x 40 bases, I'll have a full regiment of KoW goblins. So by painting 12 or so more orcs, I can get two full regiments of goblin rabble for KoW - the basis for a reasonable army along with some trolls, or extras ('red goblins') for an ogre army.
The DA orcs on 40mm squares could also be used as orclings - perhaps as the more powerful 'Wip's playmates' sort. So that would give the orc army quite a few miserable underlings to throw into battle. The DA orcs are tiny next to the Mithril and Prince August orcs that I'm going to be using for the mainstay of the army. And in 15mm HOTT, they'd work as warbands (again, with extra base depth, which is fine) or even brutes (in non-competition games)
It also occurs to me that I might use pure units of Caesar orcs as 'youngax' units - so I could potentially have a full orc lifecycle on show from Caesar goblins, DA orcs, Caesar orcs and Mithril/PA orcs. And in the process, I'll get a full 15mm HOTT army with various options.
In looking at lots of half-prepared cavalry units for HOTT, I decided that the sensible thing to do would be to take Fred's advice on this thread and not worry too much about basing. Two HOTT cavalry units are 120 x 40mm, which is close enough to 125mm x 50mm not to worry about - especially as it should allow us to field some much-needed cavalry very quickly. And by combining light and heavier cavalry elements, I can even get the standard five figures for a KoW cavalry troop. I also have HOTT beast elements of DA warg riders underway, which would combine for a near-enough 120 x 60 unit of either goblin or orc cavalry in KoW.
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What models are being used for cavalry? Also, do you have any fantasy buildings and this scale to use as scatter terrain? Any recommendations there?
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What models are being used for cavalry?
Those are HaT Andalusian or Almoravid cavalry (or maybe both) from the El Cid range.
I want to get hold of the Caesar crusader cavalry, but they seem to be hard to find at the moment. So, if I do make some purpose-built KoW elements, I'll probably use Tumbling Dice metal 1/72 knights.
Also, do you have any fantasy buildings and this scale to use as scatter terrain? Any recommendations there?
We have some Dave Graffam (http://www.davesgames.net) medieval buildings that we printed out a while back; we've used those in HOTT a few times. They were printed out at 28mm scale, I think, but they look just fine with 1/72. As I've got a ton of the files, we'll probably print out some more at some point - although sometimes it's just as quick to scratch-build things from boxes and scrap cardboard!
I find scratch-built buildings tend to be more robust, although the Dave Graffam ones look great. They're periodically on sale very cheaply at DriveThruRPG and Wargames Vault, and I think there's a free sample or two on the website. And there are recommendations for what percentage to print them out at for various scales. I don't think there's a huge difference between the look of a 25mm/28mm building and a 1/72 one, though - and for massed battles, the buildings are more representative than anything else (the figure ratio - 1:100 - or whatever will distort things).
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I downscaled Daves Graffam houses to 20mm and they work great. Here you have an example of a village I did for a WWII game:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T71fg_w8EK8/XlqlDZpS17I/AAAAAAAAIEM/TA52kicvdyciXjWv95U6bTGUyCNR9enrACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_8006_Fotor.jpg)
As Hobgoblin said, they are sold sometimes very cheap. Besides, most houses bring more than one skin so you can get at leat two houses out of one.
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Wow! That's a great-looking set-up - and it shows off the Dave Graffam buildings to full effect!
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Grabbed a few minutes from work today to advance the trolls a bit - I hope to finish the first 'regiment' tomorrow. I also played around with some KoW army lists this evening. It looks like troll 'hordes' are a good way to get an army quickly to the table: six figures offers a reasonable amount of 'unlocks'.
I also decided to use my DA HOTT orcs primarily as orclings. I have six HOTT hordes of them, which neatly translates into three KoW swarm 'regiments' or a horde and a regiment. That removes the need to paint up more of them to function as allied goblin units, and I think they look the part next to the PA/Mithril full-grown orcs. I note that a horde of orclings seems to be more formidable than a regiment of goblins in the KoW rules. I'll probably add the Caesar goblins as a newer batch of orclings too, but this way, I've got two or three units ready to go - and no fiddling around with bases!
That clears the way for me to use Battle Valor 'orcians' as goblins - allied or independently. I have 15 wolf riders plus mounted characters, enough for a rabble regiment and a 'biggit' troop, and various wizards. So, with trolls and allied ogres, they should be enough to field an army of sorts. I was swithering between KoW and HOTT for the BV stuff, but in HOTT it would essentially be duplicating stuff we've already got lots of (warbands and beasts).
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They look really good on those bases. :-*
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Thanks, blacksmith! I have six of those horde bases for HOTT, so I've been trying to devise easy ways of using them in Kings of War as well. The orcling approach (2 x 60 x 40mm = 3 x 40 x 40mm) seems the best way, though I'll still probably assemble some 40 x 40 additional elements so that they can be deployed as KoW goblins too.
For the most part, though, I'm now planning to build a goblin army out of Battle Valor 'orcians'. This photo shows how they compare with DA orcs. The BV figures fit very nicely on 20mm bases (these three will be character models).
As I think that the BV orcs are the best figures going for Uruk-hai in 1/72, I'm going to model the goblin army on Saruman's - albeit with optional generic fantasy elements like shamans and lizard riders! I might even throw in a white-robed wizard to lead them (one of the Elheim figures, I suspect). So these goblins will be goblin-soldiers of greater stature with black liveries bearing the white hand and the S-rune. At some point, I'll look to add Dunlendings (I have some 1/72 Gauls ...) and - of course - half-orc axemen, for which I'll probably use either Tumbling Dice Vikings 'converted' with paint or (maybe) DA half-orcs; there are some with axes.
That will keep a nice visual distinction between my Tolkien-esque 'goblins' (broad, stocky, sallow-skinned, black liveries) and my generic fantasy orcs (big, bulky, purply-grey skinned and with red liveries). No doubt the two will be used as allies - and the DA 'orclings' can also serve as an allied or opposed tribe of goblins once I've got some 40 x 40 bases done for them.
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Here's a finished unit: a regiment of trolls for either an orc or goblin army. I plan to put three more of these together.
As with the other units, the bases will get some greenery at some point.
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I think those make for lovely trolls - I use these orcs you used as ogres.
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Thanks!
Great minds ... these ogres have been used many times in HOTT (although they're not quite finished).
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I also used those orcs for conversions into ogres. I like your converted trolls - the goblin heads work great and the blue-ish skin changes their look. For some reason the troll with the red hood appeals to me a lot!
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Love the painting on those too - cracking job - keep 'em coming...
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Thanks, guys!
Looking at the army lists in Uncharted Empires, I've been struck by the thought that I have lots of old metal models that will base up appropriately on KoW 'heavy infantry' bases (25mm squares) and look about right with 1/72 figures.
For example, the fantastic old Trish Carden lizardmen (Karnac's Reptilian Raiders et al) were made to be based on 25mm squares and are to a 1/72 figure roughly what the Mantic salamanders are to a human 28mm figure. And though the Tom Meier lizardmen are smaller, they'll do the job as salamanders too and are still big and brutish next to 1/72 humans.
The same goes for the Citadel, Grenadier and Ral Partha broo, as I mentioned earlier on this thread - and it occurs to me that the Slann might work well as salamanders. I have at least five of the original cold ones with a mix of Slann and lizardmen riders, and this would be a good excuse to get them all painted up. They'd be hulking next to 1/72 figures, but not more so than a Mantic salamander next to (say) a Perry foot knight.
Oddly enough, I have three of the Mantic salamanders based up on 40mm squares as behemoths in 15mm HOTT - so they'll be usable straight away as tyrants (troglodytes/kroxigor, essentially). And they in turn are about the same size as Tom Meier's troglodytes, so could be mixed together. I think a salamander army in which the 'salamanders' are a mix of Slann and lizardmen by various manufacturers could end up looking wonderfully weird and diverse.
I also have it in the back of my mind that this, and the use of Prince August/Mithril and Ral Partha orcs, will leave us with a couple of armies that will look appropriate against our 1/72 forces and against 28mm figures - should we ever want to enter a KoW tournament.
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Paint jobs on these look fantastic.
Small request though. When photographing models that were not designed for 1/72 as minis for a 1/72 project, can you include a true 1/72 model in the picture so we can get a sense of how they scale together? Thanks!
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Paint jobs on these look fantastic.
Small request though. When photographing models that were not designed for 1/72 as minis for a 1/72 project, can you include a true 1/72 model in the picture so we can get a sense of how they scale together? Thanks!
Thanks - and sure!
Here's a 1/72 hoplite with the trolls and with an old Citadel lizardman (rebased tonight to illustrate my point above).
Also, I have solved the problem of 1/72 Elohi by dint of these Grenadier winged warriors ...
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Excellent painting on those "Trolls". I think I'll steal that idea but for Ogres instead ;)
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@Hobgoblin - these shots are perfect. thanks so much for accomodating!
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Thanks, gents.
Slight progress today on the first salamander unit - the first two 'salamanders' are rebased and touched up:
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dude, you make this scale look gorgeous! I enjoy 1/72 quite a bit, but my figures don't come out this beautiful.
great work and it's always an inspiration to see your pictures!
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dude, you make this scale look gorgeous! I enjoy 1/72 quite a bit, but my figures don't come out this beautiful.
Thanks - but yes, they do!
Here (in poor light) is a troop of Caesar knights with a Templar-ish theme. They're still to be properly based; I've found that individual basing beforehand makes them easier to paint and base, and it also helps to avoid warping the MDF unit base, as less pumice gel is applied at one time. I have another two units of these guys to get done, which is less of a chore than it sounds; I find Caesar figures the easiest to paint in 1/72 scale.
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That's a very nice job you have done with those.
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Excellent painted knights, and Salamanders too!
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The battle for the magical sea orb. lol
Love the knights. Like the variation on the themed shields too.
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Thanks, all!
The knights are based now, and one more 'salamander' has joined the ranks.
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@Hobgoblin - Remind me again what you use to base your models with when on rounds. What's the texture you're using? Sand?
The one thing about 1/72 that bums me the most, is the basing seems to take longer because I tend to try to blend the puddle base on the minis with the round base they're on so they look to be standing on level, even ground instead of on little pitcher's mounds. It's tedious work though and would love a short cut...
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I use Golden coarse pumice gel for all my basing. It's great - and makes it easy to rebase figures because you can just slice under the dried gel and keep it intact for the new base.
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I use Golden coarse pumice gel for all my basing. It's great - and makes it easy to rebase figures because you can just slice under the dried gel and keep it intact for the new base.
Thanks again!
Do you glue the minis' puddle bases to the round or square bases, then apply pumice gel? or do you solely use gel and cover the puddle base so it holds the mini to the base?
I'm trying to figure out how you're cutting the dried gel _and_ getting the mini off.
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I use superglue - then just slide a knife under the dried gel and puddle base when I want to rebase. The rounds I use are coins, so the miniature and gel come off cleanly - the pumice gel is very flexible when it dries. It would be a bit trickier cutting them off MDF bases, because the glue would tear the fibre, but it wouldn't be a huge deal.
It's definitely easier to paint the figures individually (including the pumice gel on the bases) and then attach them to the big base.
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@Hobgoblin - Remind me again what you use to base your models with when on rounds. What's the texture you're using? Sand?
The one thing about 1/72 that bums me the most, is the basing seems to take longer because I tend to try to blend the puddle base on the minis with the round base they're on so they look to be standing on level, even ground instead of on little pitcher's mounds. It's tedious work though and would love a short cut...
I just remembered that Spooktalker (of this forum) uses bases with a higher rim - so that figures with integral bases have their feet flat on the ground when the gap is filled in. I can't recall the bases he uses, but there might well be a manufacturer that does those in 20mm rounds.
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Here are a couple of troops (or a regiment) of beastmen. These fellows - a mix of Citadel, Grenadier, Ral Partha and Asgard - will work as either Longhorns (in the Herd) or Hunters of the Wild (in the Forces of Nature). I had many of them based up as 28mm HOTT chaos hordes (first photo), but as we now play HOTT in 1/72, they were effectively redundant. So I've dismantled those. Some of the figures need a bit of touching up (particularly the metals, which could do with highlights), but they'll do as they are for now.
Both Longhorns and Hunters of the Wild seem to be very hard-hitting units, and they're in that KoW 'heavy infantry' class, which means that the miniatures have to be significantly bigger than human-sized. For the Longhorns, GW Gors seem to be the model, and these guys are to 1/72 figures what Gors are to normal 28mm humans.
The eagle-eyed may spot a 'salamander' lurking in the rear ranks; I have a fishman underway to complete the unit. I also have 20-odd broo to paint up, and I suspect these units will happily absorb all kinds of miscellaneous creatures lurking in the lead pile. Some very old Citadel minotaurs and goat-headed ogres will be joining them after some repairs. And of course, I can mix all in the 'salamanders' to bolster the numbers when required.
These guys work either as chaos creatures or as an almost Studio Ghibli-style assemblage of weird nature spirits, I think. And there's perhaps a whiff of the White Witch's army about them too.
When I was dismantling the HOTT hordes, I rebased only the metal figures; I don't want to use individually based plastics for KoW as I find that the units 'crumble' annoyingly when being moved. By contrast, great chunks of lead like these chaps just glide across the mat in perfect formation. So I'm going to rebase the plastic kitbashes from the hordes as multibased troops, combining them with some individually based kitbashed beastmen I did more recently. This metal lot and the forthcoming broo will give me more than enough individually based beastmen for skirmishes and RPGs. I reckon I've got enough for three or four more troops of painted miniatures, so I hope to have the core of a Herd/Forces of Nature army finished by the weekend; the rebasing doesn't take long.
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Amazing army. It reminds me a lot of John Blanche's Chaos forces. Beautiful.
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Well they're certainly a nightmarish collection - fantastic love it.
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Fantastic paintjobs :).
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Thanks, guys!
Here's some new old stuff: another troop of Longhorns/Hunters of the Wild.
I'm quite pleased with this policy of keeping the metals on individual bases and the plastics multibased, so I've decided to keep all the Mithril/Prince August orcs on individual bases, along with their Ral Partha peers. I reckon that will allow me to get units painted up more rapidly. It will also allow me to bulk out units of Longhorns/Hunters with stray orcs and salamanders until I have enough of those for units in their own right - thus making a big game possible much earlier.
The heavy-infantry base sizes also allow for mounted leaders in foot units - something I really like the look of, even it doesn't necessarily make much sense! I've got a mounted ostrich-man on the go, and there's a Mithril orc chief on a wolf who'd fit in nicely with the PA/Mithril orcs.
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Those look wonderfully bizarre! Great use of parts from all over the place.
Your basing strategy seems like it will add a lot of flexibility, I’ll be interested to hear about how it works in games.
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Great to see those weirdos again ;)
Are they single based on a sabot base, or multi-based? If the former, you’ve hidden the joins very well.
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Love it - where did you get the small armoured chap with the big nose in the front rank from? Would love to get one...
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Chaos is all about the three R’s:
-Reduce (the number of enemies)
-Reuse (your own troops)
-Recycle (everything can be eaten)
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Thanks, chaps!
Great to see those weirdos again ;)
Are they single based on a sabot base, or multi-based? If the former, you’ve hidden the joins very well.
It's the latter: they're all glued down to the big base. I want the fragile plastic figures on big bases to keep them intact (I'm currently repairing various spears and banners on some of the rest of this former HOTT batch!). I figure that I have more than enough single-based beastmen for Saga, Dragon Rampant or similar games.
I've just discovered a whole lot more conversions and kitbashes that I'd started to paint up a couple of years ago. So I reckon i can put three or four more of these bases together in fairly short order.
Love it - where did you get the small armoured chap with the big nose in the front rank from? Would love to get one...
I had to think about that one - it's been a while! The head and body are from the GW gnoblar kit, and the arms are from the Perry foot-knight sprue.
Chaos is all about the three R’s:
-Reduce (the number of enemies)
-Reuse (your own troops)
-Recycle (everything can be eaten)
Ha! Yes, indeed!
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Your basing strategy seems like it will add a lot of flexibility, I’ll be interested to hear about how it works in games.
Yes: one other benefit - especially with the orcs, I think - will be the ability to shuffle figures to the front to change the unit's role. So, especially wild-looking orcs in the front rank would signify 'Morax', ones with two-handed weapons 'Greatax' and spear-orcs 'Longax'. The disadvantage of multibasing the Mithril/PA orcs would be that a huge amount of effort would need to be spent on fixing the unit's role by getting all the appropriately armed types together on the same troop bases.
I've just been planning out a full regiment base for the Longhorns. I reckon that any Herd army or allied contingent that I field will always need at least one regiment to unlock the specials, so I might as well have one permanently based.
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Great kitbashes :).
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Thanks!
Here's another batch of rebased figures. These Chronicle ogres, Grenadier ogre and Grenadier 'giant orcs' have often featured as warlord and hearthguard in our Saga games. All except the very big ogre were all on 25mm squares like most of my Chronicle and Grenadier orcs, but I thought we'd get more out of them when restored to properly ogreish bases (40mm squares). That has several benefits: they work as ogres in KoW; they work as behemoths in 15mm HOTT (any three are half a HOTT army); and they actually rank up now!
Also, they'll still work fine in Saga, where base sizes don't matter. I'll probably tend to use them as warlords, heroes and curaidh in the Irish list - allowing the Chronicle giant black orcs promotion to hearthguard status!
This KoW project has snapped me out of a paralysis over what to do about basing all kinds of figures (broo, hobgoblins, other ogres ...). By basing them on the old Warhammer standard for KoW, I reckon I can get maximum use out of them in 1/72, 15mm and 28mm rank'n'flank games, as well as in skirmish games and RPGs.
I'm gradually going to repaint (and possibly rebased) all my square-based figures to match this scheme (with greenery to be added at some point); the result will be the potential to field armies for KoW, etc., in both 1/72 and 28mm, using some of the same figures.
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Those Ogres are beautiful miniatures and your painting is very good, love their faces and they scale perfectly next to 1/72 plastics. Now I wish I hadn't got rid off all of them back in the day.
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I envy your skills with the brush :-*.
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They certainly look the part! I enjoy seeing this project come together.
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@Hobgoblin, again your wonderful brush work inspires!
It still blows my mind how fast you guys crank out these models...
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Thanks, guys! These last few shots have been about rebasing rather than new painting, so the speed is somewhat illusory!
We played a five-player game of KoW yesterday - only our second full game. We all really enjoyed it; my daughter slipped into the role of orcish commander with ease. Kings of Wars seems to me to be much more like HOTT or historical games than I'd expected - a very good thing in my view! As one of our first-time players remarked yesterday, it plays very intuitively; he was able to get his fast, nimble cavalry to do exactly what such units would do historically, for example. The movement phase strikes me as exceptionally well thought out, and the combat is very nicely uncertain and tense.
I originally based these Reaper bugbears up as ogres for Oathmark - hence the 50mm bases. I've repainted the bases to make them fit the rest of our KoW stuff (as ever, greenery is still to be added ...), but I've kept them on the big bases to serve as snow trolls (I'm looking at fielding an ogre army with Northern Alliance allies and/or a Varangur army with ogre allies). So these are a snow-troll regiment and a snow-troll prime (despite the lack of snow!).
They're pleasingly bigger than the ogres, and they fit the 50mm bases well (which most of the ogres would not - I rebased the one big one that was on a 50mm Oathmark base).
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Those look really good!
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fantastic stuff.
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Thanks very much! Painting has been limited by that toad work in the past few weeks, but I have been adding to our ogre army for Kings of War. We've also played quite a few full-size games: yesterday's being a four-player affair with each commanding 1,500 points. I got the feeling that we might easily escalate that to 2,000 points per player (so 4,000 a side) without the table feeling cramped.
I must say that I've really been enjoying KoW; to my surprise, it feels much more Hordes of the Things than Warhammer. So far, all our games have been straight fights, but we'll work in scenarios and objectives for next time.
We've also been fielding a lot of 1/72 and 28mm figures at the same time. It seems to me that any 28mm figures that counts as "heavy infantry" in KoW can comfortably be fielded in a 1/72 game; almost all of those troop types are as strong as ogres (at least in terms of Crushing Strength), so they work just fine next to smaller humans. That's especially true with older (80s) metal figures.
I managed to assemble a couple of 40mm bases of Dark Alliance orcs to supplement my Hordes of the Things orc hordes. Each 40mm base turns a HOTT horde base into a KoW troop base, so two of these allows me to field a goblin regiment in KoW. I have six horde bases, so another four of these 40mm squares will allow me to field three regiments, a horde and a regiment, or a legion.
An added bonus is that the 40mm bases will work in 15mm HOTT - whether as hordes, warbands or brutes (double warbands) - as will the ogres on 40mm bases.
I'm using the same fix for some 1/72 HaT El Cid spearmen that I have based for HOTT; two spear bases and a 40mm square give me a troop and twice that a regiment.
Unfortunately, there's no quick fix for my HOTT warband bases (Caesar orcs), although I might see if I can get a suitable movement tray that extends 120 x 90 to 125 x 100. I am, though, increasingly going for somewhat bigger figures for orcs, given the 25mm base: Mithril, Prince August and Ral Partha, along with Oathmark.
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I have been amazed at how quickly you seem to turn around such beautifully painted units. Always a pleasure to see.
Rewinding a couple of posts - I really like the white furs the orgres are wearing. Fur is something I always struggle a bit with. Would you mind sharing your recipe? Thank you.
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Thanks!
The ogres were part of a big wave of Nick Lund nasties that I painted up a while back; everything but the skin was washed in Agrax Earthshade and then highlighted quite minimally. I think the furs were Vallejo buff, washed in Agrax and then drybrushed with buff again and then Vallejo silver grey. The whiter ones probably got a heavier dry brushing.
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Thank you. Very much appreciated.
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Here are some speed-painted trolls done with contrast paints. It might seem like heresy to treat old Asgard, Ral Partha and Citadel miniatures in such fashion, but I'd rather have them on the table than not! The Mantic trolls deserve no better!
I will add a few more highlights to the old metal ones and generally neaten them up. But they're OK for some action this weekend.
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Well, they look really good, especially the one in the middle.
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^ ^ ^ My thoughts exactly. Beautiful miniature, wonderfully painted
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I like those old school figures a lot. I had (have somewhere?) the RP shouty troll who doesn’t have a shield, ages ago when I played WFB 3rd as a teenager. I think your paint job looks a lot better than mine was! Those trolls should fit right in to a number of games.
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I like the look of the Trolls - which contrast paint did you use, it’s always good to know the more muted shades?
A few posts up you mention sabot bases for the Caesar Orcs to add 5mm or so - from my experience of KoW v1 I’d not bother, I can’t see those few mm being critical in game.
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Thanks, guys!
I like the look of the Trolls - which contrast paint did you use, it’s always good to know the more muted shades?
I used Plaguebearer Flesh (over a black undercoat drybrushed with buff and then ivory).
A few posts up you mention sabot bases for the Caesar Orcs to add 5mm or so - from my experience of KoW v1 I’d not bother, I can’t see those few mm being critical in game.
Yes, we've played them as orcs a few times without any sabots. But I've now hit on a solution: while the Dark Alliance orcs form my goblin 'rabble' units (with a couple of 40 x 40mm blocks turning two 60 x 40mm HOTT elements into a 100 x 80mm regiment), the Caesar orcs work as 'luggits' (goblin berserkers).
I've been assembling a few HOTT blade units (60 x 20mm) to go with my current warbands (60 x 30mm) and some 40 x 40mm blocks. That allows me to field 'luggit' troops by using two HOTT blades and a 40mm block (100 x 40mm) or regiments by using two warbands, a blade and two 40 x 40mm blocks (100 x 80mm). I'm also using up my many spare Caesar orcs by creating dedicated KoW luggit units. The goblin army list allows an army to be build around luggits, so that's the approach I'm taking, for the most part.
The nice thing about this is that all the separate bits are useful in their own right. The 40 x 40s work as HOTT warband or horde units in 15mm while the 60 x 20s are blades in 1/72 HOTT, allowing me to field a more diverse orc army in that game.
So, with the Caesar orcs filling the luggit role (and looking best on 20mm basing), I can keep the KoW orcs distinct by using larger figures that justify the 25mm footprint: Oathmark orcs, old Ral Partha, Grenadier and Citadel figures, EM4 orcs and even some Mantic orcs. All of those are about the same size relative to a 1/72 human as the hulking plastic GW orcs were to 28mm humans at the time of KoW's inception.
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I should add that those old metal trolls above are now ready for use as HOTT behemoth elements (specifically, Olog-hai for Middle-earth ...).
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Speed painted or not, the old school trolls look fantastic. :-*
And you've managed to make those horrible Mantic trolls look good, which is no mean feat.
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The troll in the middle is great, I've not seen that mini before.
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I’m amazed again by the speed with which you crank out nice looking units. However, I completely stunned about your basing concept. That’s something I really do struggle with…mostly ending up using single bases…
I also played KoW in its first free edition and found it really to many dice…and lacking some of the funnier elements of Warhammer. Your posts make me think that I may have misjudged the system…I won’t ever forgive them the absolutely silly unit names…
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The troll in the middle is great, I've not seen that mini before.
He's an old Asgard troll, by Nick Bibby, I think. He looks to me very like a 'dry run' for the more celebrated Asgard half-troll chieftain.
I’m amazed again by the speed with which you crank out nice looking units. However, I completely stunned about your basing concept. That’s something I really do struggle with…mostly ending up using single bases…
Thanks! Yes, I'm starting to formulate a set of principles for basing. If the miniatures are old and metal, they get individually based (unless I have lots and lots of them: some Prince August orcs may be going on multibases, because I have dozens of them). If they're new and plastic, they go on multibases (perhaps with one or two individually based).
I also played KoW in its first free edition and found it really to many dice…and lacking some of the funnier elements of Warhammer. Your posts make me think that I may have misjudged the system…I won’t ever forgive them the absolutely silly unit names…
I was very sceptical at first, and I entirely agree on the unit names - a problem somewhat amplified by the fact that I have the background-free version of the rulebook so have to try to figure out what some of the units are supposed to be! But I've been won over by the way the game plays. I'm enjoying it quite as much as HOTT (which is high praise from me, as I love that game). I think it's just very well designed: the games are smooth and fast, with lots of decision-making. We played our first game with a proper scenario recently, and it was excellent.
One thing I've found is that the somewhat abstract rules allow for some quite realistic-feeling choices: for example, having skirmishers screen your main infantry troops as you advance. The skirmishers will probably get 'destroyed', but will thus open up the enemy to a charge by the heavier infantry - so if you accept that the 'destruction' of the unit is its 'job done' retreat/dispersal, you get quite a nice tactical feel.
I hear you on the buckets of dice - but I think that's balanced by the extra granularity you get in results - as in the additional staying power that the bigger units get. And the snake-eyes/boxcars results add a nice element of uncertainty to even the best-laid plans.
Another thing I really like is the magic system. I used to loathe magic in Warhammer: it just seemed to wreck the game. My friends and I banned any magicians above the first level in our teenage games. But the smooth integration of magic into the shooting phase and the nature of the spells makes KoW an entirely different experience.
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These are good points. Magic was really so flawed, that my best Warhammer games were those where we translated the units into Warhammer Historical and skipped Magic (or used the various priests, skadi etc. Rules).
I guess I need to try it again…big question now: wait for 3rd edition or buy 2nd edition? I definitely want a version without that abominable background! ;)
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Ah - now, the current edition is 3rd edition; there's a new book coming out soon that is 3rd edition + all the supplements/updates. It's going to be completely background-free, I gather - with the background available free online.
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Ah - now, the current edition is 3rd edition; there's a new book coming out soon that is 3rd edition + all the supplements/updates. It's going to be completely background-free, I gather - with the background available free online.
Oops! Okay, 3rd edition then, it is!
Do you use the profiles for the suggested armies or as an abstract „value“ for whatever models you have?
I remember vaguely that one of the reasons for my dislike of KoW was that in 1st edition, it lacked suitable lists for my main armies: Chaos and Empire (Renaissance men)
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I do a bit of both - but with the supplements, there are army lists for just about everything (including a very flexible 'Kingdoms of Men' list that would fit the Empire nicely.
For the Chaos army, you've got the Varangur, and there's the Herd for beastmen. But there are also the Nightstalker and Abyssal armies (various sorts of demons), and you can use allies from other lists too.
I've been mainly playing my Nick Lund orcs as Varangur (the larger orcs are suitably imposing in 1/72 scale, and the small ones are the size of beefy men in 1/72, so suitable as the thug types).
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Ph those Nick Lind orcs! I envy you. They were my start into wargaming together with the Fantasy Warriors boxed set. A looong time ago. I consider them pretty well aged!
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Yes, the Fantasy Warriors stuff has aged just fine! I'm currently converting some of the EM4/FW plastic orcs (Copplestone masquerading as Lund) to make a unit of orc archers for KoW - adding some variety to the monopose archers by giving some of the other two poses bows.
One other thing I'd say in favour of KoW is that its army lists encourage all sorts of creative thinking/rifling in the lead pile to get various units on the table. I've just based up some outsized Wizkids gnolls to serve as 'guardian brutes' or 'lycans' in the Herd army ...
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I had those Copplestone masking as Lund orcs, too! My best friend with whom I shared the set, took the Dwarfs, so orcs it was for me before I went to Wood Elves (never again done as cool as in the Celt-inspired style of Marc Copplestone) and then found my true love in the FW Barbarians. - Sadly the FW rules neber received the update and streamlining needed. I still consider some elements of the rules pretty original and good (the morale resulted in „realistic“ results, the orders were good and the idea to have the undead army work completely different was ace!)
Going back to KoW: I see your points…what does interest me a lot is the construction of multi-bases. Maybe, I’ll have to reward myself soon when my current (real-life) project ends.
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I had those Copplestone masking as Lund orcs, too! My best friend with whom I shared the set, took the Dwarfs, so orcs it was for me before I went to Wood Elves (never again done as cool as in the Celt-inspired style of Marc Copplestone) and then found my true love in the FW Barbarians. - Sadly the FW rules neber received the update and streamlining needed. I still consider some elements of the rules pretty original and good (the morale resulted in „realistic“ results, the orders were good and the idea to have the undead army work completely different was ace!)
I'd love to give the game a go at some point. I've skimmed the rules a few times but have never managed to get it onto the table.
Going back to KoW: I see your points…what does interest me a lot is the construction of multi-bases. Maybe, I’ll have to reward myself soon when my current (real-life) project ends.
Yes, the multi-base thing is a lot of fun. The game also has scope for a lot of great big monsters - like this familiar face, which my son has just completed using his usual tinfoil-and-Fimo approach. We're going to use this guy as an 'Archfiend of the Abyss', I think, but he could be smuggled into any of the nastier KoW armies as whatever flying titan features in the pertinent list:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxUIelQ7Je0
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Bravo! Bravo! That is an exceptional archfiend. My compliments to Hobgoblin jr.!
Why do people buy 3D printers…all we need is fimo and tinfoil. I’m seriously impressed!
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Many thanks! And Merry Christmas!
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That really is incredible modelling right there @
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beautiful! 8)
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Yes, the multi-base thing is a lot of fun. The game also has scope for a lot of great big monsters - like this familiar face, which my son has just completed using his usual tinfoil-and-Fimo approach. We're going to use this guy as an 'Archfiend of the Abyss', I think, but he could be smuggled into any of the nastier KoW armies as whatever flying titan features in the pertinent list:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxUIelQ7Je0
Watched the video and it's awesome!
How old is your son?
He sounds young, but the script he's reading sounds like a cheeky middle-aged man. Did you help him with the video or did you pass on some kind of sarcasm gene? lol
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Thanks, all!
Watched the video and it's awesome!
How old is your son?
He sounds young, but the script he's reading sounds like a cheeky middle-aged man. Did you help him with the video or did you pass on some kind of sarcasm gene? lol
Cheers! He's 14. The script's all his own work - the first I heard of any of it was when he uploaded the video. He doesn't script the thing very formally - "I think up lines, and then I say 'em" is what he said this morning when I asked!
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I think a fair few kids today have been trained in making funny videos from watching so many of them at a young age.
That said, bloody good work! The writing, the editing, the painting, and above all the sculpting!