Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Mr. White on April 15, 2021, 02:59:28 PM
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I don't have an instagram account, but it sounds like a Second Edition of Lion Rampant was leaked. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/duxrampant/lion-rampant-2nd-edition-rumour-t1151.html
I'm curious how they would expand the sleek, efficient LR ruleset into a robust hardcover. Maybe keep the core rules as is, but add the Crusader supplement, the Dragon Rampant fantasy options, etc all as new chapters or something.
Anyone know anymore about this?
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The Instagram Leak I've heard was Mr Mersey posted a picture of minis he stated where going into the 2nd edition.
I followed this up on the Dux Rampant forum as per the link you've posted, and a source has confirmed it is happening and is due to be Hard Cover. By source I mean someone who has been a part of the previous rampant rules released and not Mr Merseys' barbers aunt's dog walker so its about as legit as you can get without a more direct announcement. Although nothing confirmed beyond that and no idea about release dates, maybe check Osprey future releases and keep an eye on Wargames Illustrated news.
Speculating somewhat on my part and no more idea than yourself:
I'm expecting the kind of upgrade Gaslands had.
As regards additional content I would point to the various magazine articles such as the previously mentioned Wargames Illustrated and Wargames Soldiers and Strategy in which Mr Mersey has previously provided additional rules. So expanding the timeframe backwards and forwards a few hundred years, so the Dark Age rules, maybe the King Arthur background (rather more likely than the Crusader States done with Edinburgh press), Mercenaries, Medieval Handgonnes, and Wars of the Roses/Tudor variant units added (mixed pike and missile troops) taking upto the start of the Pikemans Lament timeframe. Also maybe siege rules and expanding for big battles. Plus whatever new might get in.
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I've messaged Dan to see what's what. Hopefully I will remember to check Instagram! I'm not often on the site. :)
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This sounds very interesting indeed - thanks for the heads up.
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I refuse to use Instagram. I'm not sure if I despised it more when it was just full of hipsters taking pictures of their dinners with crap "vintage" filters, or now that it's a vapid wasteland of "influencers" (the very concept of which makes my skin crawl).
I'm perfectly happy with V.1 LR in all honesty, but dependent on content and price, may be persuaded to buy this. The whole draw of the Osprey "blue book" rules was their low cost and simplicity....
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I somewhat agree.
My first Osprey book was Gaslands Refuelled. I've since bought a lot of the blue books with Zona Alfa, Lion Rampant, Dragon Rampant, and Ronin taking almost no space on my bedside nighstand. I love these books. They are sleek, efficient, yet fire my creative imagination. I've _really_ considered buying the Gaslands bluebook, so it can rest with these elite tomes. Also, I don't use a lot of the Gaslands expanded stuff but mainly the core rules. I don't really feel like I need more for LR either, but a robust new HC will probably raise its profile as a system in the game stores...
... and I’ll probably buy it.
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I posted in that thread myself and he's not really posted anything related since on his Instagram account.
I quite like the Lion Rampant rules, especially the Landwasters and Raven Feeders article he did for War-games Illustrated, so I'm interested to see what they do with it.
As I mentioned over on the other forum, really miss the blog he used to have.
Steve
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I refuse to use Instagram. I'm not sure if I despised it more when it was just full of hipsters taking pictures of their dinners with crap "vintage" filters, or now that it's a vapid wasteland of "influencers" (the very concept of which makes my skin crawl).
I'm perfectly happy with V.1 LR in all honesty, but dependent on content and price, may be persuaded to buy this. The whole draw of the Osprey "blue book" rules was their low cost and simplicity....
I'm personally expecting the core mechanics will stay pretty much as is with maybe some optional suggestions and some rules for running sieges as apparently Mr Mersey is a bit of a Castle Nerd. Also perhaps some campaign structure as he's done one or two articles about that and does some campaigns himself.
I would look to the Lion Rampant part of the Dux Rampant Forum and the specific articles in Magazines by Mr Mersey to get an indication of the changes and content, and I think it will be a case of additional rather than change, don't break what isn't fixed!
Fact is there's still articles and scenarios based on LR with no more than tweaks most recently a few months back Miniature Wargames had a War of the Roses Blore Heath scenario.
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I think there was even a Crusader scenario in the recent WI 400. However, I'm not exactly sure the publishing relationship on that Crusader stuff so it may or may not make it into the new book.
I would like to see some eastern retinues included though. Armies of the samurai and such.
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I think there was even a Crusader scenario in the recent WI 400. However, I'm not exactly sure the publishing relationship on that Crusader stuff so it may or may not make it into the new book.
I would like to see some eastern retinues included though. Armies of the samurai and such.
I Think Japanese forces got added in the Pikemans Lament Exotic Army Lists which should be available in the same forum, and Michael Leck did some rules suggestions in Wargames Soldiers Strategy 92.
I haven't checked out Magazines properly since Christmas so it wouldn't surprise me there's a LR Crusader scenario, but even if taken as not working hand in hand with Osprey. It is an example of LR Scenario largely as rules written originally, which I think if he planned any major changes, Crusader States would already include.
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This is interesting news.
I would wager a decent amount of money that they will tweak the "Leader Rules" and the Activation rules to mirror more of what their later systems did.
I will buy this as I adore Mersey's work.
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I would wager a decent amount of money that they will tweak the "Leader Rules" and the Activation rules to mirror more of what their later systems did.
This seems quite possible.
Steve
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It's neither a leak or a rumour - I've just been sharing some of my photos online. LR2 is happening, but there won't be an official Osprey announcement for some time yet as it publishes in 2022. We will share more details closer to the time. But as I'm here...
This edition will be a longer, hardback book and is expanded to cover the Dark Ages as well as the medieval period. In addition, you'll find extra scenarios and expanded campaign ideas, greater details for terrain, a chapter of optional rules, extra unit upgrades, and plenty of other new stuff due to the expanded page count (I could only cram so much into the original page count).
The core rules have a few updates but it's still LR as you know it. Same goes for troop types - any retinue you raised for the blue book will still be usable. I'm not in the habit of making you buy new books or minis for the sake of it!
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I refuse to use Instagram. I'm not sure if I despised it more when it was just full of hipsters taking pictures of their dinners with crap "vintage" filters, or now that it's a vapid wasteland of "influencers" (the very concept of which makes my skin crawl).
Yep, describes me perfectly.
https://www.instagram.com/mr_daniels_games_emporium/
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apparently Mr Mersey is a bit of a Castle Nerd.
It's good to learn something new about myself! lol lol
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This edition will be a longer, hardback book and is expanded to cover the Dark Ages as well as the medieval period. In addition, you'll find extra scenarios and expanded campaign ideas, greater details for terrain, a chapter of optional rules, extra unit upgrades, and plenty of other new stuff due to the expanded page count (I could only cram so much into the original page count).
Very happy to read that :-*
I'll look forward to see the new edition. I'm just painting some Saracens for Crusade States.
I love all the LR series: Dragon rampant, Pikeman's lament, TMWWBK, Rebels & Patriots, nice sets and with just some little tweaks the subsequent sets can upgrade the "old" LR with new ideas.
We used R&P even for napoleonic games with no effort, just a couple of small modification taken from ideas already in the previous books.
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This edition will be a longer, hardback book and is expanded to cover the Dark Ages as well as the medieval period. In addition, you'll find extra scenarios and expanded campaign ideas, greater details for terrain, a chapter of optional rules, extra unit upgrades, and plenty of other new stuff due to the expanded page count (I could only cram so much into the original page count).
The core rules have a few updates but it's still LR as you know it. Same goes for troop types - any retinue you raised for the blue book will still be usable. I'm not in the habit of making you buy new books or minis for the sake of it!
This sounds great, look forward to hearing more closer to release. :D
Steve
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It's neither a leak or a rumour - I've just been sharing some of my photos online. LR2 is happening, but there won't be an official Osprey announcement for some time yet as it publishes in 2022. We will share more details closer to the time. But as I'm here...
This edition will be a longer, hardback book and is expanded to cover the Dark Ages as well as the medieval period. In addition, you'll find extra scenarios and expanded campaign ideas, greater details for terrain, a chapter of optional rules, extra unit upgrades, and plenty of other new stuff due to the expanded page count (I could only cram so much into the original page count).
The core rules have a few updates but it's still LR as you know it. Same goes for troop types - any retinue you raised for the blue book will still be usable. I'm not in the habit of making you buy new books or minis for the sake of it!
This sounds fantastic. Glad to hear I won't need to give up the bluebook, I love it, but I will definitely buy a copy of second edition.
I don't know that you check into these parts too often, so I just wanted to shout your rules out for Lion and Dragon Rampant. After 30years of minis gaming I didn't think I'd come across rules that would recharge me as much as they have. Thank you for the humor, positive attitude, and rules clarity. Cheers!
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Well, that settles it then. Roll on the publication of the book 8)
There's time yet to build on the Haggis Rampant forces! :D
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:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Woohoo, but a year to wait, erm will this be before/after Xenos Rampant one wonders.
Look forward to see about the Campaign Rules and if this links in with the Old Wargames Illustrated Condottiere rules.
Castles, Catapults and big battles oh my.
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I don't know that you check into these parts too often, so I just wanted to shout your rules out for Lion and Dragon Rampant. After 30years of minis gaming I didn't think I'd come across rules that would recharge me as much as they have. Thank you for the humor, positive attitude, and rules clarity. Cheers!
Thank you, pleased you're getting some fun from them.
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Woohoo, but a year to wait, erm will this be before/after Xenos Rampant one wonders.
I'm not sure of the order Osprey are publishing them in but am sure that info will be confirmed sometime soon....
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Not directly related to the 2nd Edition but Northstar posted on FB the other day that the team behind the Crusader States supplement are working on another one called ‘A Viking in the Sun - The Mediterranean Adventures of Harald Hardrada’ for late summer 2021.
Really enjoyed the Crusader States one so I’m looking forward to this one too.
Steve
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The core rules have a few updates but it's still LR as you know it. Same goes for troop types - any retinue you raised for the blue book will still be usable. I'm not in the habit of making you buy new books or minis for the sake of it!
Are any of the changes to the activation system that you've made in your other rule sets going to make it into LR2?
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Red Rowan - yes, I'm working on this with the Edinburgh team. It'll be out later this year.
Pixelgeek - Activation mechanic stays the same as I feel it represents chaotic medieval skirmishes without the command structure of later periods (which is why those other rule sets had changes), but I am including an alternative for those who wish to use it.
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That's great to hear, the previous supplement is really good.
The background information to the setting and the information for each of the armies listed was a great introduction to the period. Looking forward to the next one.
Steve
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I’m a big fan of the current activation system and looking forward to the rules staying relatively the same, but a new HC is a good opportunity for optional rules for those that prefer something different. Looking forward to this book!
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I like the current activation system. I find it works pretty well and although quite a few people whinge about it, provided you keep your leader close to the units under his command, you’re judicious in picking the right order type for the situation, and also activating your units in the optimum order for success, I’ve found in both LR and TPL that activation failures are actually not all that common, and absolute turn-ending stymies rare. Just don’t try and do the most difficult activations first :)
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I like the current activation system. I find it works pretty well and although quite a few people whinge about it, provided you keep your leader close to the units under his command, you’re judicious in picking the right order type for the situation, and also activating your units in the optimum order for success, I’ve found in both LR and TPL that activation failures are actually not all that common, and absolute turn-ending stymies rare. Just don’t try and do the most difficult activations first :)
We've used the FFoL activation at the club. Although I haven't played in any of the games where the FFoL amendment was used all the guys playing thought it to be a vast inprovement. Hopefully I will get a chance to find out soon :)
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We've used the FFoL activation at the club. Although I haven't played in any of the games where the FFoL amendment was used all the guys playing thought it to be a vast inprovement. Hopefully I will get a chance to find out soon :)
I’d used counters in a bag (a bit like bolt action). Players would each be represented by a specific colour. One player would draw a counter and the player corresponding to whichever colour came out could activate a unit. If the unit failed, it just didn’t act that turn and another counter was drawn. Therefore allowing for a random order to the activations while still allowing every unit on the table to attempt to activate.
Units needing to rally, or that had the special rule that meant they charged whenever they could, were always activated on the first time that one of the controlling player’s counter was drawn from the bag that turn.
I stopped using lion rampant as I quite like being able to decide how large I want a unit to be, rather than being restricted to 12 or 6 figures per unit. Very interested in the new iteration though!
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I stopped using lion rampant as I quite like being able to decide how large I want a unit to be, rather than being restricted to 12 or 6 figures per unit. Very interested in the new iteration though!
Some versions of the Rampant Rules Engine do have options for units to be bigger so might be one of the options/updates with 2nd ed.
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I like the current activation system. I find it works pretty well and although quite a few people whinge about it, provided you keep your leader close to the units under his command, you’re judicious in picking the right order type for the situation, and also activating your units in the optimum order for success, I’ve found in both LR and TPL that activation failures are actually not all that common, and absolute turn-ending stymies rare. Just don’t try and do the most difficult activations first :)
I think most of those who 'whinge' are probably players who don't like Friction and elements of Fog of War and Command & Control, when it used to be seeing changes in flag signals, hearing the changing drum beat/bugle call over shouts, screams, and clash of arms and a leader shouting himself hoarse to get his guys moving when they didn't quite fancy it.
Whilst it can be frustrating if having a bad run (there are tweaks and house rules around this), it averages out being the same for the other guy too. Whilst somewhat abstracted I like that all of that Friction is neatly captured with a stat you test against with 2 dice with minimal modifiers generally from a Leader if in range and thats it.
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I like the current activation system. I find it works pretty well and although quite a few people whinge about it, provided you keep your leader close to the units under his command, you’re judicious in picking the right order type for the situation, and also activating your units in the optimum order for success, I’ve found in both LR and TPL that activation failures are actually not all that common, and absolute turn-ending stymies rare. Just don’t try and do the most difficult activations first :)
That's my feeling too.
One thing I've noticed with our most recent games (actually DR, but with only LR troop types for the most part) was that games played with the recommended 24 points work particularly well because there are typically only four or five units on each side. So there's less likelihood of the sort of major 'stranding' that you might get with a bigger game. A lot of our games had drifted out to much bigger points totals, but I think I'll focus on 24-pointers in future. At 24 points, the changes in initiative are quite fast and furious, and you're typically only missing out on a unit or two with a failure.
We've used the FFoL activation at the club. Although I haven't played in any of the games where the FFoL amendment was used all the guys playing thought it to be a vast inprovement. Hopefully I will get a chance to find out soon :)
That's interesting. I confess I prefer the FFoL activation to the rest of the game. It is a very good game, but I find it a bit fiddlier than the Rampant games because of the tokens. But the activation system is brilliant.
For a multi-player game, you could do it in a couple of ways: have a card dealt per unit, or have a card dealt per player (keeping the chances of failure but randomising the turn sequence. I think Savage Worlds uses the latter approach.
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One thing I've noticed with our most recent games (actually DR, but with only LR troop types for the most part) was that games played with the recommended 24 points work particularly well because there are typically only four or five units on each side. So there's less likelihood of the sort of major 'stranding' that you might get with a bigger game. A lot of our games had drifted out to much bigger points totals, but I think I'll focus on 24-pointers in future. At 24 points, the changes in initiative are quite fast and furious, and you're typically only missing out on a unit or two with a failure.
I think this is the key point. LR and its spin-offs are designed for probably 4 - 6 units per side, not 20. If you're only playing with a few units, and you don't do stupid things like trying to carry out the most difficult activations first, the chances of getting your whole command bogged down by a failed activation are actually quite slim. I played a game of TPL where one player insisted on trying to fire his gun - requiring a roll of 8 - as his first activation every turn, and then wondered why he kept getting stymied and unable to move his other units, who only needed to roll of 5 or more ::)
Of course you can get a run of sheer bad luck, and end up rolling sub-5 on two dice. But statistically, to successfully roll 5s, 6s, and 7s or better, the odds are heavily in your favour.
I've mostly played larger games with two or three players a side, each controlling 20 - 30 points worth of troops. Per the rules, for multi-player games, if one unit fails its activation, that ends that particular player's turn - but the other players on the same side can still take their turns (unless and until one of their units fails its activation of course). This keeps the game moving along nicely for the most part.
I'm not a fan of 'friction' in general in wargames rules. I also usually have terrible luck with dice lol But in LR/TPL I just don't find that failed activations happen often enough for them to feel like a major problem. (Now the wretched Tiffin card in Sharp Practice, that's a different matter >:D :-[)
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I pretty much agree with the above.
In games I’ve actually wanted to fire a gun first - and failed the activation with its consequence - but did so having considered the possibilities.
It seems perfectly reasonable to me that putting easier activations at risk to take a chance on an extreme action that could change the entire course of a game comes with the potential for adverse consequences.
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It seems perfectly reasonable to me that putting easier activations at risk to take a chance on an extreme action that could change the entire course of a game comes with the potential for adverse consequences.
A bit like leaving your pirate ship unattended. ;) lol
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When we play larger games of LR with larger armies and multiple players. We do random activations by drawing tokens. But each player has two tokens in the pot. That way even if you fail an activation you have a second chance later in the turn.
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When we play larger games of LR with larger armies and multiple players. We do random activations by drawing tokens. But each player has two tokens in the pot. That way even if you fail an activation you have a second chance later in the turn.
Great idea for larger games 8)
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A bit like leaving your pirate ship unattended. ;) lol
And I’d do it again as stealing it from me has given you so much pleasure :D lol
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One more thought on "fail-activation" games in general: there's a colossal difference in how they play when people are quick about taking their turns.
Song of Blades and Heroes (etc.) is a great example here. It's clearly designed to be played very quickly: you point at your miniature and roll your one to three dice, and on you go. Lion Rampant plays really well when played in the same spirit: whipping through activation rolls and moving quickly (sabots really help here) - and when you get to melee, both combatant players have something to do. And the design of LR helps in that regard - because you're rolling for a specific declared action (shoot, move, attack, form up, etc.).
'Stranded' units or figures often don't seem nearly so stranded when the rolling is done at a quick pace. Song of Blades often gives a very realistic depiction of a small-scale brawl or skirmish, with people hanging back or retreating hastily or routing altogether, but it works much better when people make instant decisions and keep it as 'real time' as possible.
Lion Rampant is quite similar, I think: those tardy knights are just surveying the scene with aristocratic sang froid rather than just being useless!
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Another possibility for large games is to split each side up into several forces (“battles” if you want to keep medieval themed), each with a leader. Player 1 starts and picks a force, then does activations following the rules as written ( or whichever variant you’re using). When player 1 fails an activation or runs out of units, player 2 picks a force and activates it. Play alternates between the sides until all the forces are done, ending the turn.
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And I’d do it again as stealing it from me has given you so much pleasure :D lol
He certainly hasn't stopped talking about it. lol lol lol
Lion Rampant is quite similar, I think: those tardy knights are just surveying the scene with aristocratic sang froid rather than just being useless!
Another possibility for large games is to split each side up into several forces (“battles” if you want to keep medieval themed), each with a leader. Player 1 starts and picks a force, then does activations following the rules as written ( or whichever variant you’re using). When player 1 fails an activation or runs out of units, player 2 picks a force and activates it. Play alternates between the sides until all the forces are done, ending the turn.
That's a great way to stimulate one battle (or ward) not supporting another. Just think of of the Battle of Tewkesbury, where Wenlock's Main battle didn't support Somerset's attack. He got an axe in the head for his tardiness. :-X
I agree that if you are into 'narrative' games, you can always find a plausible reason as to why said unit chooses not to do what you want it to do.
A little chaos goes a long way in making a great game. Even the tiffin card or a set of park benches providing cover against charging knights. Eh Richard 8) 8)
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lol yes indeed Gary
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lol yes indeed Gary
All good stories deserve to be told frequently. Bit like throwing someone out of a biplane 😜😂
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All good stories deserve to be told frequently. Bit like throwing someone out of a biplane 😜😂
Twice! :D
A biplane in the underbelly of a Zeppelin as I recall lol
I can’t believe you’re still harbouring a grudge about that ;)
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We had two games of LR (one was actually Chariots Rampant), where one side rolled 4 or less on its first activation three turns in a row, while the other side activated pretty much everyone. In one of the two games one side managed a total of three activations in the entire game. We introduced a 'mulligan' rule allowing a re-roll of a failed first activation but we still found too many games where one side did all the activating. The other games in the LR stable (men who would be kings, rebels & patriots) don't suffer from this issue. It may be a good simulation of medieval command and control but it makes for too many spoiled games for us.
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I bought the blue LR book a few weeks ago, it was a little hard to track down from Australian distributers, but I found it eventually. I'm pleased to hear it won't be superseded cuz I always seem to arrive late to the party, and it would be typical of me to buy the 'old' edition.
We had our first face to face LR game yesterday at my local club. We found it smooth, easy to learn & play. We used unit cards I found on the web and those made the game flow along nicely. The cards made the game less onerous because we didn't have to check charts or flip through the book a million times.
As for those risky activations rolls, we didn't mind, there was enough give & take, and because we played the game loose & fast, there were a few twists and turns of fortune. The game moved quickly and lasted about 90 minutes. It was good fun, we'll play again.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/51/15115-160521111135-513462340.jpeg)
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The last couple of posts capture the different experiences with LR and DR - either the activations play out fairly evenly and the players feel it is the narrative of the game. Or one side feels they are doing nothing, and the other side is dancing around them with loads of activations. Warmaster has similar experiences.
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It comes down to how many games are played and the odds. If there have been lots of LR games played then some will have their first three activations fail. If it is a 5+ unit then the chance is 0.5%. For a 7+ activation it is 7%.
Perhaps a mulligan could be offered if you failed your first activation on your last turn? Or a bonus - say +1 for each cumulative first activation failure.
Some of it does come down to risk though. Many people are not very good at assessing risk and odds. 5+ compared to 7+ doesn't sound like a lot but when you start compounding those odds it quickly diverges.
Also you can compare this to any string of unlucky rolls in other games. eg fail your first three Leadership tests in Warhammer and half your force could have routed off the table.
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I would love if the handful of fantasy options and rules from Dragon Rampant made it into the Lion Rampant hardback. Maybe a chapter near the end? It seems like a logical inclusion to expand Lion Rampant out to a thick hardback.
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Probably outside of the scope of the new edition, but even just a page on late Sengoku Jidai would be very welcome. Many parallels, and I have had some classic LR games with samurai.
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Probably outside of the scope of the new edition, but even just a page on late Sengoku Jidai would be very welcome. Many parallels, and I have had some classic LR games with samurai.
I would love this as well. One of the beauties of LR, is how simple the rules are requiring such a low page count, while still providing a great time on the game table. It seems to me that an expanded hardback would have plenty of room for all these other options: fantasy, samurai, etc.
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Probably outside of the scope of the new edition, but even just a page on late Sengoku Jidai would be very welcome. Many parallels, and I have had some classic LR games with samurai.
Not sure how I missed this, but are you the Ronin author? if so, I love those rules too! Cheers!
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Probably outside of the scope of the new edition, but even just a page on late Sengoku Jidai would be very welcome. Many parallels, and I have had some classic LR games with samurai.
What rules have you used for samurai retinues?
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Is there any more news on this? I'm not on the social medias, so a little behind the curve.
I've thought about buying up the magazines that have the Dark Ages and Samurai rules, but have decided to wait and see what all is offered in 2e. Also, eras like Pikeman's Lament...will that be covered in the new book too? Waiting to see...
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Is there any more news on this? I'm not on the social medias, so a little behind the curve.
I've thought about buying up the magazines that have the Dark Ages and Samurai rules, but have decided to wait and see what all is offered in 2e. Also, eras like Pikeman's Lament...will that be covered in the new book too? Waiting to see...
Basically it's on the way. I can't really say more than that. Not that I'm really "in the know". I have corresponded with the authors a wee bit.
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Is there any more news on this? I'm not on the social medias, so a little behind the curve.
I've thought about buying up the magazines that have the Dark Ages and Samurai rules, but have decided to wait and see what all is offered in 2e. Also, eras like Pikeman's Lament...will that be covered in the new book too? Waiting to see...
Hello - publication is due next year. I don't know the month yet, but the manuscript has been with Osprey for about a month. So possibly earlier in the year rather than later but I don't know for sure.
You won't need the Dark Ages magazine article if you buy the second edition, but Samurai are not covered (I don't know much about Samurai warfare .... yet!). No Pikeman's Lament either, this book will just cover Dark Ages and Medieval periods. New material includes optional upgrades for the main troop types, optional battle rules, purchased Leader traits, additional scenarios, two simple campaigns, many more sample armies, and more detail on terrain. Plus clarifications or amendments to some of the rules to make the game clearer or smoother.
Not sure when Osprey will start releasing their promotional material.
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Well the optional bits nclude the siege and big battles done by others, and the Chariots/Romans Rampant?
Will it feature the Condotteri as per the article you did around the same time as the dark age article.
Lastly will it cover the optional rules and tweaks covering upto Wars of the Roses which you also did in an article?
Great to see LR being expanded upon :)
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I'm also hoping that the Chariots Rampant rules are included, unless you are planning a devoted Bronze Age supplement?
Please? ::)
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The new edition won't include anything from the articles other people have written, just me. Sorry! So that means no Chariots Rampant (not sure I've ever seen that one, which magazine was it in?).
Some of the material I've written for magazines is included, but there's a lot of new material that I've been quietly working on in the background. I didn't want it to just be the old edition plus things you've already read in magazines.
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The new edition won't include anything from the articles other people have written, just me. Sorry!
I think we can make do with you Dan ;) :) Always a well trodden playtesting path and always fun :)
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The new edition won't include anything from the articles other people have written, just me. Sorry! So that means no Chariots Rampant (not sure I've ever seen that one, which magazine was it in?).
Some of the material I've written for magazines is included, but there's a lot of new material that I've been quietly working on in the background. I didn't want it to just be the old edition plus things you've already read in magazines.
Chariots Rampants and the Roman Punic Wars where in Wargames Soldiers & Strategy, I think issue 80 and 82 respectively.
So sounds like as well as the Dark Age rules, we get the Condotteri and Wars of the Roses, plus the other stuff I can't think off and extras.
You had me at Hardback 2nd Edition, this is more spoilt than a certain brand of confectionary says it does :)
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Samurai are not covered (I don't know much about Samurai warfare .... yet!).
Fair enough, makes sense to keep it consistent. Really looking forward to LR 2nd edition, it has been a staple in my gaming circles since it was released and we are still introducing new players.
If you ever want my not completely ignorant opinion on samurai, happy to share my insights.
Cheers
CW
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I think Samurai/Sengoku period might stick out a little and seems beyond the academic remit of the book as planned(?). Not that I wouldn't like to see something of that nature. Maybe in a future publication?
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Samurai, where covered under Pikemans Lament, the exotic army list I think.
Michael Leck also did an article in Wargames Soldiers and Startegy 92 giving a more indepth adaption for Pikemans Lament. As Pikemans is the offspring of LR then that should cover your bases or you could refine it backwards using Lecks work as a guide for LR we currently have. At worst half the work is done for you :) at best it hits the sweet spot dead on.
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I recall reading it, but it didn't hit the spot in my view, and missed some of the key differences between European and Japanese renaissance warfare. But I will try and find a copy before I comment further.
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I recall reading it, but it didn't hit the spot in my view, and missed some of the key differences between European and Japanese renaissance warfare. But I will try and find a copy before I comment further.
This thought has just occurred to me but I think it might be quite hard to model certain psychological aspects of Japanese warfare be it early-ish Samurai (ie Early Medieval) through to Sengoku Jidai. The weight placed on honour seemed to be of a more extreme nature then that of Early European Medieval warfare. At least that was one of my big take aways from the hefty reading I did about the period some 20 odd years ago.
Am I right? Partially perhaps?
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I have been playing Dragon Rampant a fair bit and really enjoying it. Have been close to grabbing a copy of LR but will hold off until 2nd edition is released. Might give me adequate time to get units painted.
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I wanted to give a quick shout out to the art pieces in the original Lion Rampant book. They're gorgeous and I hope 2e is similar and doesn't lean too fantastical. Also, I like how some of the art only covers half a page. I like that feature in the blue books.
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I think that aside from the cover, all the art in the first edition of Lion Rampant came from earlier Ospreys. I can’t see any reason to change that, although if it’s being expanded into a hardcover that’s its own thing (rather than part of the blue book series), they may decide to commission some more original art for the new book.
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I was shown an entry on Amazon for the Second Edition, price point just under £22 and publication date in July 2022. I've not had this confirmed by Osprey, but as they upload the info to Amazon, I guess it is accurate.
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I was shown an entry on Amazon for the Second Edition, price point just under £22 and publication date in July 2022. I've not had this confirmed by Osprey, but as they upload the info to Amazon, I guess it is accurate.
Seems like a lot of the standard Amazon thing where they put stuff up with a date a year ahead and move it up when the actual date is confirmed
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Looks like we have a release date of July 2022: https://www.amazon.com/Lion-Rampant-Second-Medieval-Wargaming/dp/1472852613/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=lion+rampant&qid=1636740650&s=books&sr=1-3
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Terrific looking cover. I will be getting this for sure - but not from Amazon which already shows a five star review - not bad for a book as yet unpublished!
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Terrific looking cover.
It is 8)
but not from Amazon which already shows a five star review - not bad for a book as yet unpublished!
Which is their usual dodgy business practice.
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What a stupendous cover!
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It is 8)
Which is their usual dodgy business practice.
Yeah, though it will make not a jot of difference to an enterprise so vast it can easily send a megalomaniac into space I'll be looking to support a vendor with some connection to the hobby even if it costs a couple of shekels more.
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Yeah, though it will make not a jot of difference to an enterprise so vast it can easily send a megalomaniac into space I'll be looking to support a vendor with some connection to the hobby even if it costs a couple of shekels more.
(Over the last nineteen months where it has been I possible for me to go to a book shop) if I can afford it, I tend to buy all my books from the publisher. Otherwise I much prefer to buy from small businesses though this is getting hard er and harder as they are so easily priced out of the market.
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I agree 100% with the sentiments of recent posts. I don’t plan on buying this from Amazon, but shared the link because it has the cover a date.
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:)
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I was hoping the hardback will include Chariot Rampant as well. Perhaps as a blue book on its own sometimes in the future?
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I was hoping the hardback will include Chariot Rampant as well. Perhaps as a blue book on its own sometimes in the future?
Hrsck I would be happy if some one published the early Tudor/Renaissance ruels that Stuart has been working on. lol
Or maybe the Punic war rules.
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I was hoping the hardback will include Chariot Rampant as well. Perhaps as a blue book on its own sometimes in the future?
The only Chariot Rampant I'm aware of is from I think Wargame Soldiers & Strategy Issue 80 and as was not written by Dan will not be included.
Its Dan only articles so expect the Dark Age rules, Italian Condottieri, Arthurian campaign maybe, and some optional Renaissance/WOTR rules being most likely, with a few odds and ends I can't remember that he has also done over the past 7-8 years the rules have been out.
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Hrsck I would be happy if some one published the early Tudor/Renaissance ruels that Stuart has been working on. lol
Or maybe the Punic war rules.
Dan did some early renaissance rules for Italian Wars and War of the Roses. There was a non-Dan scenario for WOTR in Miniature Wargames last year or so.
The Punic Wars got an adaption in Wargames Soldiers & Strategy issue 82, think it was called Eagles Rampant, although a google for that might throw up a Napoleonic adaption someone did
There has been a range of articles in Wargames Soldiers and Strategy and Wargames Illustrated so checking through ye olde back issues you'll find the original material.
Some of the more popular and oft talked about adaptions were actually nothing to do with Dan so they won't be included. He posted clarifying all that sometime back.
I'm a huge fan of the system as Lion Rampant hooked me into Historical Wargaming so keep an eye out for when there's an article.
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Cool, what issue of miniature wargames did he publish them in? And is that the title of the magazine? I only get Wargamers illustrated over here, and the local story just stopped carrying Wargames Soldiers & Strategy. But i do have that issue. Just preferer to have everything in one book.
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Cool, what issue of miniature wargames did he publish them in? And is that the title of the magazine? I only get Wargamers illustrated over here, and the local story just stopped carrying Wargames Soldiers & Strategy. But I do have that issue. Just preferer to have everything in one book.
The not Daniel Mersey WOTR Blore Heath Scenario with some slight unit/rule tweaks:
https://pocketmags.com/miniature-wargames-magazine/november-2020-451
Wargames Illustrated and Wargames Soldiers & Strategy had articles in a number of issues, was there anything specific? As I mentioned not all Lion Rampant contributions have been by Daniel Mersey so not all will be in the 2nd ed. Depends what your after?
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Thank you, I'll give it a once over.
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Oooh, had no idea about this, will have to make sure I order a copy. :)