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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: zemjw on April 22, 2021, 12:32:15 PM

Title: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: zemjw on April 22, 2021, 12:32:15 PM
I haven't seen this mentioned here, so...

Wargames Atlantic are running a poll to choose what box they'll make next. It's the final round of heat 1, so head on over to vote. No signup or email required (unless you want to have a chance to win a prize)

poll link (https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/final-round-6-of-6-in-heat-1-get-your-votes-in)

I went with most of their SF stuff, but other periods are available. I didn't see the medieval civilians from their recent April Fools, but there are a lot of options, so I may have missed them
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Sir_Theo on April 22, 2021, 01:03:05 PM
Some interesting options there!
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on April 22, 2021, 05:56:42 PM
I have had fun doing the poll. Some of the suggestions are interesting some are a bit... odd. But it is great to see WA engaging with us customers.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Elbows on April 22, 2021, 06:31:27 PM
While I can't attest to the business success of Wargames Atlantic - they're doing the one thing I'd do as a company new to the mix; fill the gaps.

There are so many gaps in plastic miniatures which big companies are too afraid to tackle.  I hate to see new companies show up and produce...*gasp*...WW2 Germans for Normandy, etc.

I think there are a ton of plastic kits that could be very successful if a company is willing to do them.  Maybe not world-shattering sales records, but worth producing.  I'm still amazed no one produces a box of plastic Cowboys, or a box of plastic Roman Gladiators (with all the popular classes represented, etc.).  Kits that could be applied to dozens of different games, etc.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Pattus Magnus on April 22, 2021, 08:36:08 PM
My knee-jerk response to the idea of cowboys or gladiators was “they would be great, but wouldn’t be profitable for the producers because cowboys and gladiators are for small team/skirmish games and you would only ever need to buy one box. Plastics are for mass battles.”

Then it occurred to me that the 1 box format with a massive number of components, designed for a small team game, is exactly what the Frostgrave boxes do, and they seem to sell well enough to keep going.

I’m hoping my knee-jerk response isn’t right and the companies like Wargames Atlantic and Northstar turn good profits with the versatile kits they’re doing.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: BZ on April 22, 2021, 08:48:40 PM
Done all the polls, and Im very curios about the results!
I love Wargames Atlantic for making those kits, that nobody else wants to make. And their price and quality are also good!
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 22, 2021, 09:26:20 PM
My knee-jerk response to the idea of cowboys or gladiators was “they would be great, but wouldn’t be profitable for the producers because cowboys and gladiators are for small team/skirmish games and you would only ever need to buy one box. Plastics are for mass battles.”

Then it occurred to me that the 1 box format with a massive number of components, designed for a small team game, is exactly what the Frostgrave boxes do, and they seem to sell well enough to keep going.

I’m hoping my knee-jerk response isn’t right and the companies like Wargames Atlantic and Northstar turn good profits with the versatile kits they’re doing.
To some extent, I suppose the more niche sets do benefit from having a particular popular ruleset requiring those kinds of models. That certainly will have helped Frostgrave at least! Generic fantasy adventurers would certainly not have been quite as in-demand otherwise, though the cultists especially appear to have been popular beyond Frostgrave too. Not sure if Jugula is still much played, but a plastic set covering most gladiator types available around that game's release for example would have been rather good. I suppose there are even some larger scale applications for such a set (Spartacus and all that). There is also the factor that you might attract a lot of customers buying one box of something that only requires the one box, while anything meant for larger armies will sell multiple boxes to fewer customers.


Anyway, very interested to see what comes out of this; the poll options are certainly rather an eclectic mix.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2021, 09:13:58 AM
I'm still amazed no one produces a box of plastic Cowboys [...]

Yeah, me too! I would have thought that a good set of those would have enough universal appeal to succeed for a long and steady period. :?

I also think a multipart robot and cyborgs set would be a sleeper hit, especially considering that it'd have enough utility to appeal to all sorts of different games and genres. Could be combinable with a plastic Gladiators set too!

Then again, I guess it's the usual issues with plastic kits:

- Quality of detail and casting
- Scale, proportion, and posing of models
- Number of separate parts
- Amount of configuration/variety from the kit
- Price of final box

Sure, that applies to metal models too, but the up-front investment in a plastic kit means you can't really afford for it to not be a great success. Plus, every option or separate part means more mould tooling (and therefore, more cost).

In the case of the cowboys set, I think you'd need two sprues to really have a big impact: one where the models all have dusters, and one where they don't. I'd also include a couple of mounted legs on each sprue too, designed to fit with suitable popular ranges (say the Perry ACW mounted boxes). I'd go for a slightly chunkier "herioc" 28mm too, so that they fit well with a wide range of existing metals in that style, but avoid making them too cartoonish (i.e., too "GW"). Unfortunately, the very fact that I think two sprues with some extra options on them would be a perfect option for a 10/12 - 20/24 model box means that it probably wouldn't be financially viable (as most people would only ever buy 1-2 boxes at most).
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: dwbullock on April 23, 2021, 12:58:33 PM
SPACE BEARS!!!

Sometimes, you just have to click the silly ones.  However, some modular robots are always fun.  Actually, many of those look fun.  And I do appreciate not just their humor, but their willingness to engage with customers and provide what their base wants to build.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: has.been on April 23, 2021, 01:43:35 PM
Many interesting options, problem is that I want them...NOW ! :-* :-*
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Pattus Magnus on April 23, 2021, 01:52:55 PM
If the robots ever make it into production, I expect they will become a common donor kit for cyborg kitbashes. Throw a robot arm on a Northstar cultist and you have a down-and-out ‘borg outlaw. They’re potentially versatile enough to fit into a lot of projects.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Elbows on April 23, 2021, 04:17:37 PM
Well Stargrave is coming out - so a droid/cyborg kit is almost a guarantee at some point - so I'd actually be tempted to skip that one. I assume Northstar/etc. will be doing that kit.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: TWD on April 23, 2021, 05:03:33 PM
The difference between cowboys or gladiators and Frostgrave is the player base IMO.
Fantasy (Frostgrave) has a much bigger audience than gladiators which helped sell the initial set. The success of that set plus the success of the game opened the doors to the subsequent sets.
It used to be that you either needed a big player base (Naps, WW2) or big armies (Ancients, Naps again)  to generate the sales to  justify the cost of tooling plastics.

I think cowboys has a relatively small player base and as noted you only need a posse of a few models to play.

However the cost of tools and sculpting, especially if done in China (like WA) means smaller runs are more affordable.
Who would have thought a few years ago we'd get plastic Pathans for instance (small player base and generally small forces)?
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Pattus Magnus on April 23, 2021, 08:14:10 PM
Regarding the robots, there might be room in the market for a set each from WA and Northstar, since Starwars established the precedent that there can never be too many types of robots in a space opera setting!

Actually, it seems like with plastic sci-fi and fantasy kits (and historical figs that cross over easily, like knights and Vikings), the competition between companies is a bit blurry due to conversion potential. I know I have bought sets that could be considered redundant (because I already had figs of that type), just so I could get more scope for making conversions. For those types of subjects (orcs, aliens, robots, dark ages/barbarian infantry), having more options generates new demand.

I have no idea how that works for the economic viability of the sets for producers, but it seems like with some there’s synergy rather than simple competition.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Elbows on April 23, 2021, 09:37:10 PM
The difference between cowboys or gladiators and Frostgrave is the player base IMO.
Fantasy (Frostgrave) has a much bigger audience than gladiators which helped sell the initial set. The success of that set plus the success of the game opened the doors to the subsequent sets.
It used to be that you either needed a big player base (Naps, WW2) or big armies (Ancients, Naps again)  to generate the sales to  justify the cost of tooling plastics.

I think cowboys has a relatively small player base and as noted you only need a posse of a few models to play.

However the cost of tools and sculpting, especially if done in China (like WA) means smaller runs are more affordable.
Who would have thought a few years ago we'd get plastic Pathans for instance (small player base and generally small forces)?

Sure, but we won't really know until someone tries it.  The advantage here is that there is not a competitive market for that...meaning if you did a really nice box of plastic cowboys or gladiators - you'd be it.  The only show in town.  Now neither of these genres is huge...but it exists.  There is a new Old West skirmish game released maybe once a year.  I do agree that there's no point in several companies competing with boxes of plastic figures for a small genre - but the space is there for someone to grab it.  Particularly if you become "the" supplier who does that stuff.  I think it's a market space that's available - as long as you're not trying to be the next Games Workshop.

The advantage here is that 3D printing will cover all these bases, but a lot of people (myself included) still "prefer" simple HIPS plastic kits.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on April 23, 2021, 09:46:11 PM
Sure, but we won't really know until someone tries it.  The advantage here is that there is not a competitive market for that...meaning if you did a really nice box of plastic cowboys or gladiators - you'd be it.  The only show in town.  Now neither of these genres is huge...but it exists.  There is a new Old West skirmish game released maybe once a year.  I do agree that there's no point in several companies competing with boxes of plastic figures for a small genre - but the space is there for someone to grab it.  Particularly if you become "the" supplier who does that stuff.  I think it's a market space that's available - as long as you're not trying to be the next Games Workshop.

The advantage here is that 3D printing will cover all these bases, but a lot of people (myself included) still "prefer" simple HIPS plastic kits.

I agree with Elbows.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Jack Hooligan on April 23, 2021, 09:49:05 PM
I do as well, but I feel like there are a few companies that have positioned themselves as the "go to" makers of Cowboy minis.

Black Scorpion and KnuckleDuster come to mind. Now, neither do a box set of mix'n'match plastics but I would assume if anyone found it viable it would be one of those two.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: 3Fingers2 on April 24, 2021, 09:57:30 AM
Set of plastic Wild West with potential to swap weapons out for sci fi and  mounted torsos so they could be  put on alternative steeds would be a dream come true.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: armchairgeneral on April 24, 2021, 06:49:19 PM
Each to their own I suppose, but the list looks like people have just requested whatever suits their current pet period rather than what would be best for a plastic set.

I voted for WW1 Russians and Austro-Hungarians in an earlier round as I felt they would suit mass battles so sorry to see they have disappeared from the current list. Odd that EW Austro-Hungarian Dragoons are still there though.


Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Belgian on April 24, 2021, 07:21:04 PM
Each to their own I suppose, but the list looks like people have just requested whatever suits their current pet period rather than what would be best for a plastic set.

I voted for WW1 Russians and Austro-Hungarians in an earlier round as I felt they would suit mass battles so sorry to see they have disappeared from the current list. Odd that EW Austro-Hungarian Dragoons are still there though.

If I'm not mistaken the best picks of each current poll will be bundled into a second round so the most chosen sets will come back in the next round. World War One Russians would be very interesting, also very useful for the Russian Civil War for both whites and reds.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: armchairgeneral on April 25, 2021, 07:34:51 PM
World War One Russians would be very interesting, also very useful for the Russian Civil War for both whites and reds.

That’s what I thought. This set would be really useful for doing epic battles throughout the WW1 Eastern Front. Similarly for the Austro-Hungarians.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Belgian on April 25, 2021, 07:47:01 PM
That’s what I thought. This set would be really useful for doing epic battles throughout the WW1 Eastern Front. Similarly for the Austro-Hungarians.

This, not an expert but thinking of the excellent Copplestone range. The miniatures in greatcoats, advancing poses and multiple head options allowing for siberian rifles, bolsheviks, white infantry and so. Regarding the First World War, not sure if both sides during the Russian Civil War wore identical uniforms but that would also be great as an extra option instead of the all greatcoat option. Could even be a good option for their new army builder concept.

Thinks the most popular countries are already more than sufficiently covered, always good to have more options especially in plastic though but indeed Austro-Hungarians, Russians, Ottomans would be very useful and could also be used for Back of Beyond style wargames. Looking at some of the rather odd choices in the polls I hope the more decent options are certainly chosen the most as the public's prime choice might be worse than you can think. Thinking of the Boaty McBoatface name affaire but guess Wargames Atlantic is smart enough to avoid rather poor future releases.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 26, 2021, 11:30:50 AM
I do as well, but I feel like there are a few companies that have positioned themselves as the "go to" makers of Cowboy minis.

Black Scorpion and KnuckleDuster come to mind. Now, neither do a box set of mix'n'match plastics but I would assume if anyone found it viable it would be one of those two.
I dunno; Black Scorpion hand-sculpts their minis, and to make that into a mould suitable for injection-moulded plastic means that the models would have to be sculpted oversized, then traced by hand to cut the mould into a metal die via a pantograph machine... Which is how GW used to do it, and how Renedra still mostly do it (...I believe?).

GW has since moved to all digital sculpts, which the machines then cut straight into the moulds (i.e., no laborious "middle step" of scanning/pantographing required), and they do all of this in-house. In fact, I'm not even sure if the moulds they cut are even still steel any more; if not, or if at least some are in a softer metal that's easier and cheaper to machine, then that would explain why they seem to be happier making single-model or limited releases these days.

Anyway, my point is that just because a one-man-band like Black Scorpion doesn't find it economically viable to make cowboys in plastic, doesn't mean that it isn't viable for somebody else to make them. I would imagine Knuckleduster are in the same position as BS.


This, not an expert but thinking of the excellent Copplestone range. The miniatures in greatcoats, advancing poses and multiple head options allowing for siberian rifles, bolsheviks, white infantry and so. Regarding the First World War, not sure if both sides during the Russian Civil War wore identical uniforms but that would also be great as an extra option instead of the all greatcoat option. Could even be a good option for their new army builder concept.
Do you mean having one frame be the greatcoat bodies, and the second frame being the specific arms/heads/equipment, etc. required to make different units? If so, the main issues with this are:

1) The moulds wear at different rates; the shared part of the mould gets way more use than the unit-specific part of the mould. This means it's hard to gauge how much lifespan a particular boxed set has left, because it's availability depends on a shared asset.

2) The shared mould can only be used in one kit run at a time. So you can't produce two kits at the same time (assuming you have machine availability to run multiple kits simultaneously, or course), because the part you need for Kit B is currently being used by Kit A.

There are ways around these (especially (2), as you could just do a big run of the shared sprue, and then marry them up with a specific sprue by hand at the box-packing stage), but I believe the main miniatures company that used to do this (GW) stopped this practice because it was more logistically complicated then the benefit they ended up getting from it.


Looking at some of the rather odd choices in the polls I hope the more decent options are certainly chosen the most as the public's prime choice might be worse than you can think. Thinking of the Boaty McBoatface name affaire but guess Wargames Atlantic is smart enough to avoid rather poor future releases.
I am aware that there is some pruning at various stages to remove things that are deemed not commercially viable, and I believe they retain the final say on anything that makes it to the last round of voting. Precisely for the reason you mention!  lol
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: robh on April 26, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
I am aware that there is some pruning at various stages to remove things that are deemed not commercially viable, and I believe they retain the final say on anything that makes it to the last round of voting. Precisely for the reason you mention!  lol

Given the lead time to research and design a range of figures, to some extent for Fantasy/Sci-fi, but certainly for Historical armies, they must already be well into the "production" of the sets they know they want.  Largely I think an exercise like this set of votes is a marketing tool not a serious production scheduling activity.
Their chosen options are in those lists already and will "win" the vote counts.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Belgian on April 26, 2021, 06:12:41 PM
Do you mean having one frame be the greatcoat bodies, and the second frame being the specific arms/heads/equipment, etc. required to make different units? If so, the main issues with this are:

1) The moulds wear at different rates; the shared part of the mould gets way more use than the unit-specific part of the mould. This means it's hard to gauge how much lifespan a particular boxed set has left, because it's availability depends on a shared asset.

2) The shared mould can only be used in one kit run at a time. So you can't produce two kits at the same time (assuming you have machine availability to run multiple kits simultaneously, or course), because the part you need for Kit B is currently being used by Kit A.

There are ways around these (especially (2), as you could just do a big run of the shared sprue, and then marry them up with a specific sprue by hand at the box-packing stage), but I believe the main miniatures company that used to do this (GW) stopped this practice because it was more logistically complicated then the benefit they ended up getting from it.

Wasn't thinking of separate sprues per boxed set but more like their army builder concept of identical small sprues with six bodies per sprue and limited head options but giving you an astounding 60 miniatures per boxed set or more like their other boxed sets which are mostly (or all not sure) single sprue kits if I'm not mistaken. With smaller army builder sprues you could also opt for slightly less bodies per sprue but with more options. With their current output more than happy with the quality and price of these sets especially with the many conversion possibilities. Have already been making some interwar german leftist militia, fantasy dwarf warriors and weird wars world war one soldiers and just touched the surface of possibilities.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Jack Hooligan on April 27, 2021, 03:14:46 PM
It appears that Great Escape Games are delivering the plastic multi-part cowboys

https://twitter.com/GEGHQ/status/1377273929048457217

https://twitter.com/GEGHQ/status/1386979476769316865

Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: TWD on April 29, 2021, 07:50:08 PM
Yep
https://m.facebook.com/greatescapegames.co.uk/photos/pcb.2215112425290714/2215112375290719/?type=3&source=49
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: BZ on April 30, 2021, 04:43:56 AM
Round 2 is there!
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: robh on April 30, 2021, 09:57:58 PM
First 2 rounds of Heat 2 and so far I have only found 1 set interesting enough to choose.  :-[
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: BZ on May 01, 2021, 07:25:49 AM
I really hope, tgat modular robots will get real! Its a genius udea: so obvius, but (as I know) no other manufacturer thought of it.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: armchairgeneral on May 01, 2021, 07:42:01 PM
Good to hear they are bringing out Panzer Lehr  :)
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Codsticker on May 04, 2021, 05:21:55 AM
Sadly, my Sassanids didn't make it round 2. :'(
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Harry Faversham on May 04, 2021, 09:00:17 AM
Good to hear they are bringing out Panzer Lehr  :)

Yep, there's a desperate need for more Germans!

 ::)
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Poiter50 on May 04, 2021, 09:12:52 AM
 lol lol lol
Yep, there's a desperate need for more Germans!

 ::)
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: BZ on May 05, 2021, 05:28:01 PM
3rd round:
https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/heat-3-the-top-12
I really hope, that it will be the modular robot set!
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: pieface paul on May 05, 2021, 08:30:44 PM
"I really hope, that it will be the modular robot set!"

I am trying for you BZ.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: BZ on May 05, 2021, 08:56:58 PM
Thanks! A modular robot set is a genius idea in himself and as kitbashing material too, and it would perfectly fit Stargrave...
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: dadlamassu on May 06, 2021, 07:00:42 AM
No sets that I would buy in the final 12.  No votes cast.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: N.C.S.E on May 06, 2021, 07:57:10 AM
Yeah, the mountain of sets in the first round seemed very interesting, but not a single one in the final round caught my eye.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: zemjw on May 06, 2021, 10:19:54 AM
I'm on a science fiction kick at the moment, so plenty to choose from  :D

My first choice was the random alien races idea, which I don't remember seeing in the earlier rounds
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Elbows on May 08, 2021, 05:54:28 AM
Good lord, though...what a bunch of cry-babies in the comments there.  lol  That's pretty embarrassing.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: armchairgeneral on May 08, 2021, 06:27:59 AM
Yep, there's a desperate need for more Germans!

 ::)

 lol

Having bought some Artizan Panzer Lehr recently, I have been made aware the range is in retreat as moulds wear out so I am hoping this set might be useful for support weapons crew conversions.

I voted for WW1 Italians as nothing else to vote for. Someone in the comments suggested some of the choices have been removed as WA were going to do them anyway which was interesting.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: BZ on May 10, 2021, 05:45:14 AM
Good lord, though...what a bunch of cry-babies in the comments there.  lol  That's pretty embarrassing.
I felt unconfortable while reading...  :?
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: robh on May 11, 2021, 10:59:07 AM
....... Someone in the comments suggested some of the choices have been removed as WA were going to do them anyway which was interesting.

WA confirmed that in a post of their own in that thread. It was evident sets they are already planning were included in round 1 but removed prior to round 2. They mention Trojan Wars and Indian Mutiny as examples so presumably those are going to happen at some stage regardless of the votes here.
Maybe they switched from a way of generating pre-release hype to actual research in the polls. Well done if so.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: armchairgeneral on May 14, 2021, 09:47:17 PM
https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/the-winners?utm_campaign=emailmarketing_114089885794&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email

LANDSKNECHT OGRES! WTF? What is the world coming to.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: BZ on May 14, 2021, 10:01:37 PM
https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/the-winners?utm_campaign=emailmarketing_114089885794&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email

LANDSKNECHT OGRES! WTF? What is the world coming to.
Come on, dont be like those whining kindergartners in the comment section! It was a poll, it had a winner, if You didnt like it, move on.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: armchairgeneral on May 15, 2021, 12:10:18 AM
Come on, dont be like those whining kindergartners in the comment section! It was a poll, it had a winner, if You didnt like it, move on.

Not complaining. Just surprised. Of all the things it could of been.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Elbows on May 15, 2021, 01:34:38 AM
https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/the-winners?utm_campaign=emailmarketing_114089885794&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email

LANDSKNECHT OGRES! WTF? What is the world coming to.

I have a feeling maybe you missed the past 30-40 years of Warhammer Fantasy? 
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Blackwolf on May 15, 2021, 01:37:17 AM
I have a feeling maybe you missed the past 30-40 years of Warhammer Fantasy?

Haha,nearly choked on my tea :)
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: armchairgeneral on May 15, 2021, 05:52:11 AM
I have a feeling maybe you missed the past 30-40 years of Warhammer Fantasy?

Fantasy wargaming? Whatever next? Science Fiction wargaming? (cough, splutter, snort) Feel I need to withdraw to my club to recover from the shock of such radical notions! lol
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: has.been on May 15, 2021, 09:50:45 AM
Quote
It was a poll, it had a winner, if You didnt like it, move on.

I agree with that, but I too was surprised with the result.
Of the finalists, that was the one I would not buy. My tastes
are varied, but that choice does not float MY boat. Good luck
to all who voted for it, & please enjoy them. I look forward to
the company doing the poll thing again.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Ninefingers on May 15, 2021, 11:09:22 AM
Fantasy wargaming? Whatever next? Science Fiction wargaming? (cough, splutter, snort) Feel I need to withdraw to my club to recover from the shock of such radical notions! lol

Well, they have announced that they are Landschneckt Ogres with sci-fi options...
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: robh on May 16, 2021, 12:10:33 PM
That is a surprising result for sure.  Although none of the sets in the final really grabbed me I thought one of the sci-fi options would come out on top. Landsknecht style Ogres seems very specific, are they a good army for 9th Age or something?
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Elbows on May 16, 2021, 05:30:04 PM
Landsknecht Ogres are simply a nostalgia nod to Oldhammer, and games like Mordheim, etc.  I know several metal/resin manufacturers already produce some.

I'd assume they could be used for GW's current games - maybe?  I'll be honest - do I think it's a smart investment?  Not so sure, but people voted and I'm happy for that small market segment to get the reward.

A cursory google search for "Empire Ogre" turns up some conversions and alternate model ranges.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/61/c7/cd/61c7cd74d135fd5ac7253c52528a54d1.jpg)

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8EE9sKAzdXY/Twy-RekfInI/AAAAAAAABRU/_Ox0vGKEDgA/s1600/Ogre+Swordsmen+finished.jpg)

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2015/11/Renaissance-Ogre.jpg)

(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/wfrp/heros-call/WHF19_8_Maneater_EvenMehlAmundsen.png)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/RXdLq1Sc24fmpiHhSo6S_b3SRFy3k5kjnAVrvkHyiiwnSZgkZJ9a6wkfZVntgAiSehmDuZ21LhHeV1bQh4KtSA8SCOCoDOOoYEGa8qFYSIEQYz3poQ)

I don't play Warhammer Fantasy or much Mordheim nowdays, but it seems like there is a decent chunk of fan support for this kind of thing.  I also saw some references to 9th Age (which is what - current fan-made Warhammer Fantasy?), etc.  So, happy for these folks to get a small nod!
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Hobgoblin on May 16, 2021, 06:07:57 PM
Quite apart from Warhammer, one thing to be said for Landsknecht ogres is that they're a reasonable fit for the traditional idea of an ogre (from Perrault, as in Dore's illustration below):

(https://www.meisterdrucke.uk/kunstwerke/500px/Gustave_Dore_-_The_Ogre_receives_the_cat_illustration_for_Puss_in_Boots_by_Charles_Perrault_(16_-_(MeisterDrucke-311068).jpg)

And they're not a million miles away from this sort of thing:

(https://cdn.britannica.com/s:690x388,c:crop/64/147264-050-25E71D41/Detail-ogre-fountain-Kindlifresserbrunnen-Switz-Bern.jpg)

I remember thinking the same way back when Marauder brought out the first (I think) Landsknecht ogre for Warhammer.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Duncan McDane on May 16, 2021, 09:35:20 PM
A plethora of those already on the market. Mom Miniatures e.g. makes some nice big and cheap ones:

https://en.momminiatures.com/product-page/griffin-ogres

Surprising choice, but hey, if the market demands...
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Codsticker on May 19, 2021, 06:28:07 AM
I have a hard time seeing it a big seller. There is a part of me that thinks the participants in the election process represent a vocal minority. I thought it would come down to Apocalyptic survivors or western characters such as deputies and cowboys 

On the other hand we don't really need more Napoleonics or WW2 Brits/Germans/Americans on the market.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Hobgoblin on May 19, 2021, 08:01:24 AM
It occurs to me that there aren't any (or many) non-GW plastic kits for 'large humanoids', so it will be interesting to watch how this goes. I wonder if Wargames Atlantic will do something like they did for the lizardmen (which are brilliant): lots of different heads and arms to allow the creation of radically different figures.

With ogres, that could allow a range from generic medieval/Renaissance to full Landsknecht finery. So arms with puffed sleeves, but also bare arms or tattered sleeves. At ogre scale, it's probably easy enough to keep the hats separate (as some 28mm historicals do).
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on May 19, 2021, 09:36:56 AM
I have a hard time seeing it a big seller. There is a part of me that thinks the participants in the election process represent a vocal minority. I thought it would come down to Apocalyptic survivors or western characters such as deputies and cowboys 

On the other hand we don't really need more Napoleonics or WW2 Brits/Germans/Americans on the market.

Considering how many people have been vocally supportive of Landsknecht Ogres on various platforms I think they will sell more boxes of them than they have of the Dark Ages Irish (which I love by the way but are rather niche).

As for more Napoleonics…. plastic French Light Infantry and Ottomans please.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Codsticker on May 19, 2021, 01:30:45 PM
... and Ottomans please.
They do seem to be left behind.

You could very well be right. When you look at the last round of voting I think all but two of the options were fantasy or sci-fi.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on May 19, 2021, 02:01:28 PM
I keep requesting pre-20th Century Ottomans (and in particular Janissaries) from Wargames Atlantic every time they ask for suggestions or do a poll on their website.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Elbows on May 19, 2021, 05:12:17 PM
I have a hard time seeing it a big seller. There is a part of me that thinks the participants in the election process represent a vocal minority. I thought it would come down to Apocalyptic survivors or western characters such as deputies and cowboys 

On the other hand we don't really need more Napoleonics or WW2 Brits/Germans/Americans on the market.

I agree.  While I'm happy to see a company listen to its consumers, it's also only listening to "current and tuned in" consumers - or people like us on forums.  It's definitely niche and a little dangerous, but that seems to be Wargames Atlantic's marketing strategy - fill gaps in the marketplace.  We'll see how it works out for them.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Ninefingers on May 19, 2021, 06:50:14 PM
Considering how many people have been vocally supportive of Landsknecht Ogres on various platforms I think they will sell more boxes of them than they have of the Dark Ages Irish (which I love by the way but are rather niche).

As for more Napoleonics…. plastic French Light Infantry and Ottomans please.
The 'Dark Age' Irish can be used for a lot longer into the Medieval period though.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: TWD on May 19, 2021, 07:01:46 PM
I have a hard time seeing it a big seller. There is a part of me that thinks the participants in the election process represent a vocal minority. I thought it would come down to Apocalyptic survivors or western characters such as deputies and cowboys 


I'm not sure they're all that bothered about it being a big seller TBQH. It looks to me like far more of a marketing exercise than any sort of genuine customer research.
Says a lot about how cheap (comparatively) it now is to produce plastic kits that a company can effectively afford to use one as a marketing tool and if it makes a bit of money that's a bonus.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on May 19, 2021, 11:56:19 PM
The 'Dark Age' Irish can be used for a lot longer into the Medieval period though.

And they are excellent fodder for conversion, as I said I love them, but if you prefer another example… Panzer Lehr seem pretty niche to me.

Edit: Although I suppose those will make fine conversion fodder for some folks as well. That is the thing about multi-part plastic kits, they can be inherently multi-purpose.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Codsticker on May 20, 2021, 02:59:09 AM
I'm not sure they're all that bothered about it being a big seller TBQH. It looks to me like far more of a marketing exercise than any sort of genuine customer research.
Says a lot about how cheap (comparatively) it now is to produce plastic kits that a company can effectively afford to use one as a marketing tool and if it makes a bit of money that's a bonus.
That's an interesting take on it too; perhaps we a past the point where a plastic kit had to sell xx thousands of units to be financially viable.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: carlos marighela on May 20, 2021, 08:18:45 AM
I doubt it unless the pandemic has somehow magically reduced the cost of tooling, dies and plastic.

Maybe they know the market better than anyone here? Maybe, they’re fucking idiots and it’s a poor business decision? Maybe it won’t actually go ahead for various technical reasons and be cancelled after a decent interval? Maybe their past releases have made them richer than Croesus and they are feeling indulgent? I really don’t know and don’t really care what they choose to do but I am pretty certain that manufacturing costs have not decreased.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: TWD on May 20, 2021, 11:17:42 AM
I am pretty certain that manufacturing costs have not decreased.
I don't think anyone suggested they had, did they?
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Ninefingers on May 20, 2021, 01:08:48 PM
And they are excellent fodder for conversion, as I said I love them, but if you prefer another example… Panzer Lehr seem pretty niche to me.

Edit: Although I suppose those will make fine conversion fodder for some folks as well. That is the thing about multi-part plastic kits, they can be inherently multi-purpose.
Yes, any source of cloaks is always welcome!
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: FreakyFenton on May 20, 2021, 01:12:26 PM
Yes, any source of cloaks is always welcome!

Definitely agree, the Panzer Lehr will be great for conversions, as are most oft their sets.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: carlos marighela on May 20, 2021, 01:23:56 PM
I don't think anyone suggested they had, did they?

Well after a fashion, yes they did.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on May 20, 2021, 01:38:36 PM
Yes, any source of cloaks is always welcome!

Ha! Fair point. I am surprised that none of the big companies make a sprue of low cost plastic multi-period, multi-genre cloaks.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Codsticker on May 21, 2021, 02:35:53 AM
Well after a fashion, yes they did.
I know nothing about this specific industry, but I do know that the more companies in any given sector manufacturing any given product usually (not always, but usually) puts downward pressure on prices. Various factors mitigate or exacerbate that trend.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: carlos marighela on May 21, 2021, 10:22:42 AM
Yeah, competition can lead to downward price pressure. That tends to occur where the competition is direct. Given that WA seem to be producing niche items not already covered in plastic that level of competition does not exist.

Even if it were it’s not inevitable that it would lead to lower prices. There are countless ranges of Napoleonic, WW2, ACW ranges from various manufacturers in existence. I’ve yet to notice that the addition of yet another range has caused prices to drop amongst their competitors.

Wargamers are a small market, the efficiencies that come from economies of scale in manufacturing tend not to exist.
Title: Re: Wargames Atlantic pick next box poll
Post by: Codsticker on May 21, 2021, 02:44:09 PM
Yeah, competition can lead to downward price pressure. That tends to occur where the competition is direct. Given that WA seem to be producing niche items not already covered in plastic that level of competition does not exist.
I was thinking more at the manufacturing end than the selling end when I made that point and specifically of China. That is, the more factories doing injection moulding results in more competition (or production options anyway) for the business the likes of Wargames Atlantic. Thus, downward pressure on production cost. In any event, it was just one possible explanation for how niche plastic kits might be more viable than in the past. As I said, I don't know the business at all, just theorizing.