My knee-jerk response to the idea of cowboys or gladiators was “they would be great, but wouldn’t be profitable for the producers because cowboys and gladiators are for small team/skirmish games and you would only ever need to buy one box. Plastics are for mass battles.”To some extent, I suppose the more niche sets do benefit from having a particular popular ruleset requiring those kinds of models. That certainly will have helped Frostgrave at least! Generic fantasy adventurers would certainly not have been quite as in-demand otherwise, though the cultists especially appear to have been popular beyond Frostgrave too. Not sure if Jugula is still much played, but a plastic set covering most gladiator types available around that game's release for example would have been rather good. I suppose there are even some larger scale applications for such a set (Spartacus and all that). There is also the factor that you might attract a lot of customers buying one box of something that only requires the one box, while anything meant for larger armies will sell multiple boxes to fewer customers.
Then it occurred to me that the 1 box format with a massive number of components, designed for a small team game, is exactly what the Frostgrave boxes do, and they seem to sell well enough to keep going.
I’m hoping my knee-jerk response isn’t right and the companies like Wargames Atlantic and Northstar turn good profits with the versatile kits they’re doing.
I'm still amazed no one produces a box of plastic Cowboys [...]
The difference between cowboys or gladiators and Frostgrave is the player base IMO.
Fantasy (Frostgrave) has a much bigger audience than gladiators which helped sell the initial set. The success of that set plus the success of the game opened the doors to the subsequent sets.
It used to be that you either needed a big player base (Naps, WW2) or big armies (Ancients, Naps again) to generate the sales to justify the cost of tooling plastics.
I think cowboys has a relatively small player base and as noted you only need a posse of a few models to play.
However the cost of tools and sculpting, especially if done in China (like WA) means smaller runs are more affordable.
Who would have thought a few years ago we'd get plastic Pathans for instance (small player base and generally small forces)?
Sure, but we won't really know until someone tries it. The advantage here is that there is not a competitive market for that...meaning if you did a really nice box of plastic cowboys or gladiators - you'd be it. The only show in town. Now neither of these genres is huge...but it exists. There is a new Old West skirmish game released maybe once a year. I do agree that there's no point in several companies competing with boxes of plastic figures for a small genre - but the space is there for someone to grab it. Particularly if you become "the" supplier who does that stuff. I think it's a market space that's available - as long as you're not trying to be the next Games Workshop.
The advantage here is that 3D printing will cover all these bases, but a lot of people (myself included) still "prefer" simple HIPS plastic kits.
Each to their own I suppose, but the list looks like people have just requested whatever suits their current pet period rather than what would be best for a plastic set.
I voted for WW1 Russians and Austro-Hungarians in an earlier round as I felt they would suit mass battles so sorry to see they have disappeared from the current list. Odd that EW Austro-Hungarian Dragoons are still there though.
World War One Russians would be very interesting, also very useful for the Russian Civil War for both whites and reds.
That’s what I thought. This set would be really useful for doing epic battles throughout the WW1 Eastern Front. Similarly for the Austro-Hungarians.
I do as well, but I feel like there are a few companies that have positioned themselves as the "go to" makers of Cowboy minis.I dunno; Black Scorpion hand-sculpts their minis, and to make that into a mould suitable for injection-moulded plastic means that the models would have to be sculpted oversized, then traced by hand to cut the mould into a metal die via a pantograph machine... Which is how GW used to do it, and how Renedra still mostly do it (...I believe?).
Black Scorpion and KnuckleDuster come to mind. Now, neither do a box set of mix'n'match plastics but I would assume if anyone found it viable it would be one of those two.
This, not an expert but thinking of the excellent Copplestone range. The miniatures in greatcoats, advancing poses and multiple head options allowing for siberian rifles, bolsheviks, white infantry and so. Regarding the First World War, not sure if both sides during the Russian Civil War wore identical uniforms but that would also be great as an extra option instead of the all greatcoat option. Could even be a good option for their new army builder concept.Do you mean having one frame be the greatcoat bodies, and the second frame being the specific arms/heads/equipment, etc. required to make different units? If so, the main issues with this are:
Looking at some of the rather odd choices in the polls I hope the more decent options are certainly chosen the most as the public's prime choice might be worse than you can think. Thinking of the Boaty McBoatface name affaire but guess Wargames Atlantic is smart enough to avoid rather poor future releases.I am aware that there is some pruning at various stages to remove things that are deemed not commercially viable, and I believe they retain the final say on anything that makes it to the last round of voting. Precisely for the reason you mention! lol
I am aware that there is some pruning at various stages to remove things that are deemed not commercially viable, and I believe they retain the final say on anything that makes it to the last round of voting. Precisely for the reason you mention! lol
Do you mean having one frame be the greatcoat bodies, and the second frame being the specific arms/heads/equipment, etc. required to make different units? If so, the main issues with this are:
1) The moulds wear at different rates; the shared part of the mould gets way more use than the unit-specific part of the mould. This means it's hard to gauge how much lifespan a particular boxed set has left, because it's availability depends on a shared asset.
2) The shared mould can only be used in one kit run at a time. So you can't produce two kits at the same time (assuming you have machine availability to run multiple kits simultaneously, or course), because the part you need for Kit B is currently being used by Kit A.
There are ways around these (especially (2), as you could just do a big run of the shared sprue, and then marry them up with a specific sprue by hand at the box-packing stage), but I believe the main miniatures company that used to do this (GW) stopped this practice because it was more logistically complicated then the benefit they ended up getting from it.
Good to hear they are bringing out Panzer Lehr :)
Yep, there's a desperate need for more Germans!
::)
Yep, there's a desperate need for more Germans!
::)
Good lord, though...what a bunch of cry-babies in the comments there. lol That's pretty embarrassing.I felt unconfortable while reading... :?
....... Someone in the comments suggested some of the choices have been removed as WA were going to do them anyway which was interesting.
https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/the-winners?utm_campaign=emailmarketing_114089885794&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_emailCome on, dont be like those whining kindergartners in the comment section! It was a poll, it had a winner, if You didnt like it, move on.
LANDSKNECHT OGRES! WTF? What is the world coming to.
Come on, dont be like those whining kindergartners in the comment section! It was a poll, it had a winner, if You didnt like it, move on.
https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/the-winners?utm_campaign=emailmarketing_114089885794&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email
LANDSKNECHT OGRES! WTF? What is the world coming to.
I have a feeling maybe you missed the past 30-40 years of Warhammer Fantasy?
I have a feeling maybe you missed the past 30-40 years of Warhammer Fantasy?
It was a poll, it had a winner, if You didnt like it, move on.
Fantasy wargaming? Whatever next? Science Fiction wargaming? (cough, splutter, snort) Feel I need to withdraw to my club to recover from the shock of such radical notions! lol
I have a hard time seeing it a big seller. There is a part of me that thinks the participants in the election process represent a vocal minority. I thought it would come down to Apocalyptic survivors or western characters such as deputies and cowboys
On the other hand we don't really need more Napoleonics or WW2 Brits/Germans/Americans on the market.
... and Ottomans please.They do seem to be left behind.
I have a hard time seeing it a big seller. There is a part of me that thinks the participants in the election process represent a vocal minority. I thought it would come down to Apocalyptic survivors or western characters such as deputies and cowboys
On the other hand we don't really need more Napoleonics or WW2 Brits/Germans/Americans on the market.
Considering how many people have been vocally supportive of Landsknecht Ogres on various platforms I think they will sell more boxes of them than they have of the Dark Ages Irish (which I love by the way but are rather niche).The 'Dark Age' Irish can be used for a lot longer into the Medieval period though.
As for more Napoleonics…. plastic French Light Infantry and Ottomans please.
I have a hard time seeing it a big seller. There is a part of me that thinks the participants in the election process represent a vocal minority. I thought it would come down to Apocalyptic survivors or western characters such as deputies and cowboys
The 'Dark Age' Irish can be used for a lot longer into the Medieval period though.
I'm not sure they're all that bothered about it being a big seller TBQH. It looks to me like far more of a marketing exercise than any sort of genuine customer research.That's an interesting take on it too; perhaps we a past the point where a plastic kit had to sell xx thousands of units to be financially viable.
Says a lot about how cheap (comparatively) it now is to produce plastic kits that a company can effectively afford to use one as a marketing tool and if it makes a bit of money that's a bonus.
I am pretty certain that manufacturing costs have not decreased.I don't think anyone suggested they had, did they?
And they are excellent fodder for conversion, as I said I love them, but if you prefer another example… Panzer Lehr seem pretty niche to me.Yes, any source of cloaks is always welcome!
Edit: Although I suppose those will make fine conversion fodder for some folks as well. That is the thing about multi-part plastic kits, they can be inherently multi-purpose.
Yes, any source of cloaks is always welcome!
I don't think anyone suggested they had, did they?
Yes, any source of cloaks is always welcome!
Well after a fashion, yes they did.I know nothing about this specific industry, but I do know that the more companies in any given sector manufacturing any given product usually (not always, but usually) puts downward pressure on prices. Various factors mitigate or exacerbate that trend.
Yeah, competition can lead to downward price pressure. That tends to occur where the competition is direct. Given that WA seem to be producing niche items not already covered in plastic that level of competition does not exist.I was thinking more at the manufacturing end than the selling end when I made that point and specifically of China. That is, the more factories doing injection moulding results in more competition (or production options anyway) for the business the likes of Wargames Atlantic. Thus, downward pressure on production cost. In any event, it was just one possible explanation for how niche plastic kits might be more viable than in the past. As I said, I don't know the business at all, just theorizing.