Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Tim Haslam on April 27, 2021, 08:52:04 AM
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Thinking about figures in 28mm.
It’s been many years since I’ve collected ancient and medieval figures, and a lot has changed. Particularly plastic production.
I’m wondering if Wargames Atlantic Irish and Victrix Saxons could be kit bashed into a Welsh force, around 8th Century, maybe earlier?
Or Gripping Beast.
Maybe there is a Welsh range in metal I’m not aware of?
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Footsore!
I used to own some of these figures under a different name.
Love them.
Would the early Saxon models work?
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You almost certainly aware of this Tim but it's probably worth repeating in the event anyone else has a similar idea.....
It depends on what Century you're looking to do.
to be honest, I don't think that there would be much of a difference between the average Welsh warrior in the 10th and 11th Centuries and their Anglo Saxon/Danish counterparts, especially near the borders of both countries.
If you're looking for earlier, "Arthurian" Welsh then personally I would look no further than Gripping Beast and use either miniatures from their Arthurian range for a Civitatus type army:
https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/Age_of_Arthur--category--63.html (https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/Age_of_Arthur--category--63.html)
Or for a more "rural" look from their British & Welsh Kingdoms range:
(http://[url=https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/British_Welsh_Kingdoms--category--64.html]https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/British_Welsh_Kingdoms--category--64.html[/url])
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Don't go kitbashing, there are a couple of ranges around.
Have a look at Gripping Beast and West Wind
I could have sworn there was more than that but my brain is struggling to remember them.
I asked footsore a few months ago about a Welsh range, they indicated it would be early 2021 (which has obviously now passed)
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Thanks guys, yes I’m just having a brain fart this morning.
Thinking now I’m getting back into it, I need a Dark Age force.
It’s WAB and the Shieldwall supplement I’m looking at, so I’m in the dark ages of gaming!
Welsh is something I’ve never used before.
Not sure about which century?
Looking at GB plastics, I could probably just use all those for 9th and 10th century?
Thegns, infantry and bowmen. Three boxes almost perfect?
I’ll have a look at any metals they may do?
I’m very keen on the new plastics, they are cheap and easy to convert.
I’m just looking for ideas too, really. Something to wet the artistic juices.
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Thanks guys, yes I’m just having a brain fart this morning.
Thinking now I’m getting back into it, I need a Dark Age force.
It’s WAB and the Shieldwall supplement I’m looking at, so I’m in the dark ages of gaming!
Welsh is something I’ve never used before.
Not sure about which century?
Looking at GB plastics, I could probably just use all those for 9th and 10th century?
Thegns, infantry and bowmen. Three boxes almost perfect?
I’ll have a look at any metals they may do?
I’m very keen on the new plastics, they are cheap and easy to convert.
I’m just looking for ideas too, really. Something to wet the artistic juices.
I'm not very familiar with the BG plastics Tim so i will defer to other who are.
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Oh, and I suppose watching The Last Kingdom again during lockdown hasn’t helped!
Lol
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Oh, and I suppose watching The Last Kingdom again during lockdown hasn’t helped!
Lol
I'm not so sure, I seem to remember the "Welsh" having shields with bloomin' great bog holes in the middle lol Had be howling with laughter. Best moment of the series ;D :D
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I believe Black Tree design did some very nice ones but they seem to have disappeared from their site.
Anyway, ordering from them is like pulling the slotmachine, so second hand might be an option.
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I am pretty sure there is a company called The Miniature Company ( previously the Miniature Design Company) who produce a range of Welsh. Not sure if they are Dark Age or early Medieval. However I can’t find their website which appears to have disappeared.
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If you're using WAB (and what great supplements Age of Arthur and Shieldwall are!) the GB Welsh were designed specifically with those supplements in mind. I was part of the After Rome Yahoo group back in the day, and we had a long discussion with Soapy, the designer, about how to differentiate different troop types, and what the differences between Welsh and Saxons might be. Good times....
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After Rome Yahoo group
Forgot all about that Yahoo Group. Prof Guy Halsall's group if my memory is up to scratch?
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The Miniature Company, I remember, nice Indian Range, very similar to Vendel.
It’s not working for me either?
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Tim, yes I think their Indian range is one of their largest and most complete. I have almost been tempted to start such an army for TTS but unless I can find a link will be frustrated.
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I was only talking via email to them a few weeks ago.
I was asking when the full Indian range would be available again.
Currently the chariots and elephants are not available.
Hope everything is ok?
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I was only talking via email to them a few weeks ago.
I was asking when the full Indian range would be available again.
Currently the chariots and elephants are not available.
Hope everything is ok?
I was just reading this and cannot link to TMC either. I hope Dave is OK? A bit worrying.....
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Forgot all about that Yahoo Group. Prof Guy Halsall's group if my memory is up to scratch?
Yes indeed, some really well informed and friendly discussion was had.
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Yes indeed, some really well informed and friendly discussion was had.
Yeah, he had another group before After Rome which I was privileged to be a member of for playtesting of the WAB Age of Arthur supplement. Maybe that group was set up by James and Guy added for his expertise?
'm pretty sure there was another Yahoo group as well as the two I've mentioned but the name escapes me at present. ???
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Hi Tim, sorry, bit late to respond to this one on one of my favourite subjects! There’s very little hard evidence for welsh in this period. I think the thing to do is decide the ‘look’ that you want for your force. You could just paint the various Saxon figures in slightly different colours and that would be just fine. My perception is that the Welsh kingdoms were poorer than their English equivalents in this period, so less armour and helmets overall. I believe that Gerald of Wales mentions moustaches rather than beards, which is reflected in the GB British Kingdoms range. I like the bare-legged look, although this is hard to do consistently with the current ranges of plastics out there (Wargames Atlantic’s Irish are great, but have many features that I feel are specifically Irish rather than Celtic). That said, I think that there would be nothing wrong with doing a Welsh force just using GB plastics if you want to.
I’ll see if I’ve got any photos of my various Welsh armies.
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Dark Age Welsh are such an interesting army but I never found a range I liked. I'm really hoping Victrix have them on the 'To Do' list for their Dark Age range. A set of Welsh that you could also combine and kit bash with their Saxons would be amazing.
Steve
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Thanks James,
So maybe GB plastic generic dark age figures for later armies but if I want earlier stuff, then the GB specific range in metal.
Just throwing a major curve ball into the mix, I’m also now thinking later Welsh going into 13th or 14th century with Longbow and poorly armed cavalry, plus a mix of poor knights.
Maybe 100YW figures but used at a later date?
I’ll be looking at WAB books for a proxy list, possibly War of the Roses list?
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So maybe GB plastic generic dark age figures for later armies but if I want earlier stuff, then the GB specific range in metal.
I would just mix Anglo Saxon miniatures into a Welsh range like James and I mentioned earlier Tim. Unless you want them to look very "welsh" in a wargame manner then go for Soapy's lovely Gripping Beast range. Just my tuppence worth matey :)
Just throwing a major curve ball into the mix, I’m also now thinking later Welsh going into 13th or 14th century with Longbow and poorly armed cavalry, plus a mix of poor knights.
There would be no appreciable difference really. It's the same question I have seen asked about the Scots; again, no appreciable difference. Maybe fewer fully kitted out men at arms but that's about it.
I’ll be looking at WAB books for a proxy list, possibly War of the Roses list?
From what I remember it would be fine as long as you didn't take artillery which was not seen in England, Wales or Scotland until the beginnings f the Wars of the Roses. Oh, and avoid full plate armours, they simply didn't exist until the later stages of the 15th CE.
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Cheers old chum.
I was thinking of using the WotR list from Age of Chivalry, because the Yorkist Pretender list is very flexible, and allows a lot more cheap Irish and such.
Which battle was it that never actually took place, it was Welsh rebels bolstered with some French V English, they both camped across a field from each other but never actually came to grips?
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Cheers old chum.
I was thinking of using the WotR list from Age of Chivalry, because the Yorkist Pretender list is very flexible, and allows a lot more cheap Irish and such.
Which battle was it that never actually took place, it was Welsh rebels bolstered with some French V English, they both camped across a field from each other but never actually came to grips?
The name escapes me just now Tim. I do know that it was the follow up to the Battle of Pilleth. Maybe Google Pilleth 1402 and see what arises?
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I know it’s 1405 for the date.
Can’t find a name just yet.
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I know it’s 1405 for the date.
Can’t find a name just yet.
I would just call it the Glyndwr Upising and be done with it lol
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It hasn’t got a battle name, I suppose because they actually never got to grips?
It’s an interesting army though, loads of rufty tufty Welsh and some French dudes.
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I’m working on Welsh for my 1066 range, currently in a Kickstarter for the Saxon and Norman factions.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1066miniatures/1066-miniatures/description
I’ve gone with what sparse info is available for them in this period and decided on poorer looking warriors in tunics but with bare legs and usually bare feet. As with most of the other sets in the 1066 range, there will be large numbers of head variants so some helmets, captured or otherwise with a few dating back to earlier eras. Their hair was said to be close cropped to avoid getting tangled in underbrush as they often fought from concealment, hit and run style.
Moustaches were more common than beards apparently. The bow will be an early long-bow as that weapon was said to originate in Wales.
The wealthier warriors will have mail but lighter versions than the heavy Norman style hauberk. There will be numerous cavalry as that was also a component in their hit and run style of warfare.
The pictures: Bleddyn ap Cynfyn
Some warriors, pre-hair or helmet sculpting
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Excellent!
I was looking at your 1066 Kickstarter the other day.
Superb stuff.
So can I back the Welsh?
I’m new to this Kickstarter thing!
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Pity I can't afford to go into the Kickstarter at present. I will have to add some of those Welsh to my existing army at a later date though. Just to give some more variation at least. Once they're available form North Star I'll most likely have to add some Normans and Saxons as well. Keep up the good work on these.
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Excellent!
I was looking at your 1066 Kickstarter the other day.
Superb stuff.
So can I back the Welsh?
I’m new to this Kickstarter thing!
The Welsh aren't part of this Kickstarter Tim. But they are coming.