Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: ced1106 on April 29, 2021, 02:29:35 AM
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Inexpensive plastic modular game tiles for 28mm RPG and miniature wargaming.
Walls and floors fit together so you can make the game tile you need.
I picked up the Fantasy Core Set, Cursed Cathedral, and some other stuff in their previous KS. The SG's and another freebie, this time a townsfolk miniature set of 60+ miniatures, *really* make this a good deal for the budget gamer.
KS : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/archonstudio/dungeons-and-lasers-third-edition
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My wife and I will be backing the KS, the question just is.... exactly how big a pledge will we be making?
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I still don't think this is the best way to do buildings for gaming, but it is good to see the sewers set finally become available. Although the clear plastic water makes it an expensive choice compared to the core sets, I think having a "premium" clear option for those that want it would haver been a better idea.
The D&L pieces are excellent quality and, despite what some people throw at them for their previous incarnation, their customer service and KS delivery is superb.
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GG also has a blog entry for D&L2: https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/2021/04/29/the-backlog-grows/
Yeah, the buildings are gonna cost more per square whatever, with the door and roof add-ons. :?
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/archonstudio/dungeons-and-lasers-third-edition (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/archonstudio/dungeons-and-lasers-third-edition)
Live now, but short campaign this time, only 14 days.
Really good response from Archon to the feedback about the "high cost" of the sewers in relation to other sets. They have made the sewers a core set, available as a pledge component and as an add-on.
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I agree with you two.
My wife and I were thinking that it feels like the buildings idea is being downplayed whilst townsfolk and sewers have become the focus.
Where are the examples of cool buildings? The current sketches are very lackluster.
Where are the thatched roofs?
We can not believe that they have not shown a complete tavern.
There is still value in the KS and we are backing it but it is not so far delivering what we hoped for with buildings. It is exceeding our expectations with the townsfolk though.
Edit: This is an interesting video on how you might ge really creative with D&L pieces to build something different than what Archon presented.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpmD_AhcwIs&t=1s
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Not surprising the figures have become the stars of the campaign, if they are done to the same scale and standard as the goblin freebie from the 2nd campaign they will be incredible value.
Certainly not to the individual quality of the HeresyLab, Tiny-Furniture or King Games townsfolk figures but at 46c per figure (63 for 29€) you can't argue.
If your pledge gets you the stretch goals set -that rises to 89 figures currently :o
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Someone at Archon Studios saw that in my review of D&L 2 I mentioned I would be ok with minis at the standard of that. They posted a reply at Dakkadakka saying the minis would be higher quality than that and put some example photos.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/797368.page
If you prefer not going to dakkadakka… here are some samples
https://ibb.co/1XHZ79x
https://ibb.co/GkrcJ34
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How important is it to you all to have doors to suit the new building styles?
It is vital to me and my wife and yet it seems that according to Derek of Archon Studio, there Are Norplant currently for doors to fit the new building style doorways but that anything is possible with enough demand.
Archon has been responsive to customer input in the past. If doors are important to us, we need to make ourselves heard.
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Although I initially though swappable closed & open doors would be great, it is actually a PITA and makes a real mess of the structure during games.
Now I just use the open doorways, the closed ones have been relegated to use as external walls representing storage lockers.
My set is all sci-fi though.
For the Woodhaven buildings I would think the standard fantasy wooden closed doors they already make would be fine, I have a bunch that I would love to swap for sci-fi ones.
I don't know about the functioning door models as I have not seen them in person to see how the attachment and hinge works.
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I backed the project for the dungeon tiles really and kept wondering what wood haven was all about. I then watched the video and realized that the DL 3 campaign was for a town, but they didn’t show much.
I’d like to see a complete town made with the tiles.
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Went through the updates. Didn't see a specific building, but found these pics. And, yeah, the last one was unlocked!
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/033/427/859/168506c02664b07be3dd17923e2a8ffd_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=700&fit=max&v=1620396814&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=4bc79e557ba5cf4ea44a0f1cbeb992a1)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/033/456/645/8779235c6319b94f8d3c9eb94c17ccf5_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=700&fit=max&v=1620647477&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=1d17be0448d4de42cbe667d2d1b49843)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/033/456/677/ec03a82591468e5a7fc23ec54aaa17bf_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=700&fit=max&v=1620647663&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=e10026f1fb8191f164ae60fc89e97a72)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/033/482/159/22b87aa95811d59d457ffa7631e05b7f_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=680&fit=max&v=1620800704&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=d1e2f58652c9d3d7034d94fa5cda309d)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/033/473/180/5c07e389232b20964368509876297cf7_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=680&fit=max&v=1620745389&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=0e95dc00d5b307b1cca8e70330daa28c)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/033/402/210/6227843eeceb7c406690a324a33d3645_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=700&fit=max&v=1620234915&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=d8310e54397acf921c4b926c461487fd)
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I am glad they added doors for the new building doorways… I really did not want to see Doorgate 2.
Is it just me or are we seeing a medieval fantasy Thor (Royal Guard) and Batman (Mountain Knight) in the stretchgoals already? Are there other superheroes I missed?
Does it feel to you like there are several different artists designing different miniatures with different aesthetics rather than a single aesthetic vision tying them all together?
My wife and I tried to get a better idea of what we would need to pledge for to creat buildings using bits we got from D&L 2. picture a roof on the hall on the right, the yard on the left with the Dwarven Forge fountain and Hagglethorn Hollow statues being open air with the half walls. Not perfect but you can see the beginning of a decent medieval fantasy church.
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That's a decent looking setup, Rick.
I'm not sure how suitable the D&L stuff is for open air buildings without some extra piece types, which it looks like the KS isn't going for. Saying that though I do think they're perfect for large building interiors. If you have an adventure/mission set inside a castle or monastery or large inn then I think the D&L3 stuff is perfect, but in terms of city buildings I'm just not seeing it. I think it's too blocky and there isn't enough variety of shapes. I can see it working for fortifications but they're just too boxy for regular houses. Happy to be proven wrong though!
I'm really loving how the miniatures are looking, especially after seeing the quality of the dragons from D&L 2. I really like the style of them too, they look like they'd fit in perfectly with my Warhammer campaigns.
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Our current thinking is to use the D&L pieces as conversion building parts rather than the strictly D&L modular set up, so for example we won some GW LOTR Rohan house spare bits we can use to help spruce things ups. We will likely get some of the GW LOTR Laketown houses and take spare bits from those to improve largely D&L builds. Each of these will be built onto bases so we can hide the awkward looking bottom edges.
We admittedly lose out on modularity doing this though
And yeah, these will look boxy compared to Hagglethorn Hollow and Tabletop World but should be no worse than current Dwarven Forge building boxiness.
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How do people generally find the dungeon sets in terms 9f coverage, ease of set up, modularity, etc?
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Playing around with the unpainted pieces, my wife and I find them a bit fiddly. Perhaps they would stay together better once painted as it might give a tighter fit on the clips.
There are almost always little gaps at the wall joins.
It is very light compared to Dwarven Forge, which is what we currently use for dungeon builds. And setting up a D&L build with the clips takes a lot more time than just setting down DF pieces. DF is more expensive but with a lot more versatility. D&L is very angular and is always only a 2“ grid. No 1“ pieces are planned according to Archon.
D&L seems to us to be a decent entry level dungeon system. We are not sure yet about the buildings but we remain optimistic.
Others with more experience may have different opinions.
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I'll just add with the separate walls and floors, you don't get stuck with nothing but walls when you need corners!
I only have (and could afford) the DF KS1 tiles, so didn't have the specialized corridor tiles. With D&L you don't need them.
I'll primarily use DF and Rampage tiles for rooms, then D&L for corridors.
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D&L is very angular and is always only a 2“ grid. No 1“ pieces are planned according to Archon.
The D&L grids are 30mm squares on a 2x2 grid basis so 60mm. There was a very vocal difference of opinion during KS1 when they announced the switch from the prototype 25mm/1" square to the 30mm, for some people not matching DF to the finest detail amounts to a hate crime. But it was actually vital as the clip down walls overlap 1mm on each edge so the squares were actually only 24mm usable so two 25mm based figures could not actually fit side by side in the corridor.
I only have sci-fi tiles from KS 1 & 2 but the set design is the same. Area coverage with the core sets is good and very cheap (roughly a dense 18" or more open 24" layout per core and about half that per room).
I have just spent a full week clipping, sanding and gluing my sets into room and corridor modules. 3 core and 7 room sets gave me 7 modules each with multiple defined areas. Gives me a very dense coverage on a 4ft square table.
The wall joint gaps are a result of not totally cleaning the mould seam and the slight bowing the edges get as the plastic cools, the floor clips put tension on the underside of the tiles which causes the wall tiles to part fractionally. It can be minimised by avoiding lots of small walls and small floor sections together.
The design is fiddly to use and will require a major time commitment if a new layout is going to be built from scratch for each game and IMHO working on a D&D style "build as revealed" approach is a non starter. There was some discussion a while back on the D&L Discord about optimal sub assemblies and what could be permanently fixed together without sacrificing too much of the incredible flexibilty the system has.
My sets will work as starship interiors (my main purpose in buying them) but also as underground bunker complex or hi-tech corporate facilities. With a suitable scratchbuilt roof set they will also work as sci-fi style buildings for exterior set games too.
Amongst the various sci-fi offerings the "Vault 7" set is the standout. Absolutely brilliant design and usable as any underground complexes for Pulp right through to hard sci-fi.
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Very useful responses, thank you.
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The Vault 7 pieces are great looking, my favorite really, but all the sci-fi sets look good to me. If I had more time and space (and Mrs. GG would play post-Apoc) I would definitely be getting some sci-fi D&L and do the optimal sub-assembly build idea.
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My sci-fi modules look something like this:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/xkz3gtb (https://postimg.cc/gallery/xkz3gtb)
Size was determined by the box I will be storing them in (1" too small to go 6 tiles long). Nothing here is glued as it was the first physical iteration of the designs. I have since re-organised the floors to better distinguish the individual rooms and to incorporate the variation from the Engine Room and Vault sets. I have one each of the Temple and the Xeno room but they will be built in isolation as they do not mix well with the others.
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Last 24 hours!
Quick paintjob on the Torture Room. Other miniatures are from RBJ's "Yippers and Squealers" line.
RBJ: https://store-rbjgc-com.3dcartstores.com/YIPPER-AND-SQUEALER-KICKSTARTER_c_65.html
I've also noticed that D&L "thin" inside walls are easier to make than game tiles that have the floor and "thick" wall as one piece. Right tile for the right job, and all that.
Giant unlocked, dragon now unlocked! 150 SG mini's and bits, plus the 60 townsfolk miniatures "free" in the KS.
Sculpted bases (included with the miniatures) will also be an add-on in the PM.
Oh, and there's terrain, too. :D
Thanks to DaveC on Dakka for the summary!
1 Townsfolk starter set - 63 minis
5 Rooms or 1 Core (Sewer or Fantasy) and 3 Rooms
1 Stretch Goals pack - 85 minis, 84 pieces of Terrain
including
1 x 4.7" Giant
1 x 3.3" Troll
1 x 6" Ghost Dragon
Fire, Air, Water Elementals
Iron and Flesh Golem
A Market place with 1 fixed stall, 1 cart stall, 1 cart and various scatter
Town scatter, benches, signposts, chimneys, outdoor privy and a fountain
A Tavern with sideboards, bed, bearskin rug, bath and a fireplace
A Blacksmith set with a forge, weapons, weapon chest and tools
A Bank set with a vault door, safe, coin bags and coin pile
Barracks set with Mortar, Ballista, flags, target and training dummy.
6 Gnolls
6 Kobolds
6 Skeletons
6 Goblins
(https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2021/5/18/0967a8c350f9e95ee68b57e076d4cdbb_66741.jpg__thumb)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/033/545/277/a4e71767d260ebb02be0ffcfcdfe9520_original.gif?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=680&fit=max&v=1621279184&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=96b0531002c5d2e115fd8aec1773cc6e)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/033/499/005/7c14c917398309797a1e765c4b443bc4_original.png?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=700&fit=max&v=1620910780&auto=format&frame=1&lossless=true&s=eb046fb5cd4ac9214ccaa6aa3b6fbd51)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/033/499/197/57e639aa105cc7b2042c35f14cb81be3_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=700&fit=max&v=1620911993&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=bcbc4ce5a5617b97456321ac74716dac)
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So the final big update… swing… and a miss! In my opinion anyway. I was hoping for something a bit more…. “town building” focused. The market stall is now one per backer? And the add on market stall is the same as the stretchgoal one? They did not add the magic stall as the add on? Disappointing. The stretchgoals in D&L2 convinced us to do two pledges but this time just one for us.
Derek the volunteer in the comments has been incredibly motivating but his activity highlights the lack of involvement from others. Maybe they are busy on other platforms like discord and Facebook? Considering all the enthusiasm shown before the campaign from my perspective it is feeling a bit anti-climatic to me.
The big jump from the barbarian to the Phoenix feels out of step with their other stretchgoal intervals.
I also would like the “furious” Phoenix to win but to be honest I think my feeling of anticlimactic disappointment has spoiled any real enthusiasm I have for whatever design wins.
There are some brilliant minis on offer in this KS but I can not help but feel like a great opportunity for something more has been missed.
At the very least they should have made a two piece wide doorway with portcullis given the portcullis jokes on the Facebook live video Q&A sessions in the run up to the campaign.
And there should have been a castle pledge with enough pieces to make a D&L version of the old Citadel GW Castle.
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I think the popularity of this campaign has surprised them, so latter stretch goals have been a bit reactive rather than scheduled as part of a developing plan, but I agree for a "Town" based campaign, big monsters does not seem the best option for the last stretch goals.
The Archon team are very active on Discord. Thankfully not many whining gits on there, it is pretty positive. I am sure some of the backers total fail to grasp just how many plastic bits they are going to get in their stated massive pledges and how long that is going to take to clip and clean, let alone paint.
My sci fi sets from campaigns 1 and 2 were only at the lowest inclusive tier, but I am sick to death of seeing the damn things after nearly 2 weeks constant cutting, scraping and sanding bloody plastic walls.
That said, the figure set is now outstanding value. Taking just the Character pack and stretch goal pack for €54 gets you 153 figures plus a load of useful extra bits. Including them in a scenery pledge also gets you the Dragon, the Giant and the Troll for free.
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Fair points.
It took me much longer than I expected to clip and clean just the first of the two Fantasy Core sets we have, let alone all the D&L 1 and D&L 2 stretch goals and themed room sets.
So yes, it is a massive amount of plastic with excellent value for money but it just seems so… scattered… if you know what I mean. It feels to Mrs. GG and me that it lacks a coherent theme or strategy, like the roofs did not work out like they hoped and just moved on, much the same way it felt with the Rampart 2 campaign. So instead of buildings for D&L 3 it feels to us like they focused on more dungeon rooms and minis.
What surprises us also is that we love some of the minis and really do not like others, the ones we like seem to have had a more consistent artistic vision that was expressed by the sketches of the original townsfolk rather than the later World of Warcraft sculpts.
We were hoping that the foreign dignitary that lost the vote against the foreign merchant would end up as a stretch goal or add on.