Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: Norm on May 01, 2021, 06:56:30 PM
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Shadow of Eagles, a new set of Napoleonic wargame rules started arriving in gamer's post boxes today.
This is a set of rules that has an emphasis on simplification and feel and my first impressions are positive.
I have done a bit of a write up on the blog that show the sequence of play, contents of the book and some of the mechanics and flavour of play. LINK
http://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2021/05/shadow-of-eagles-new-napoleonic-rules.html
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A good review there Norm. Thank you.
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I did some game testing of these rules and quite like them. For pick-up games, an army is beaten when half the units rout. This is fairly common. However, a weakened unit counts as half of a rout. If a lot of your units are weakened, it would behoove you to stand down and rally some of them. Otherwise you can be defeated with well under half of your units routed. I like that aspect.
A couple game tests were posted on my blog with earlier versions of the rules and some mistakes in interpreting the rules.
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Norm, using your technique, I ran a test using the free rules 321 Fast Play Napoleonics Rules 5.0 https://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/2021/05/solo-test-321-fast-play-napoleonic.html (https://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/2021/05/solo-test-321-fast-play-napoleonic.html)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V4YuYmGqkKc/YJLkWNQj4AI/AAAAAAAADZc/3ov9rI3_ULA77lXhgdmXMDwyXalSqtt7ACLcBGAsYHQ/s748/321%2BNapoleonics%2B008.JPG)
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That was an interesting run out of the 123 rules. Having done this a few times, I think the first result can just happen, whatever game we play and sometime you just have to take your knocks, but the second go seemed more middle of the road and perhaps what might be expected more often. That result with both sides tired, but the defender still holding seemed to be the ‘result’ that I came up with most often and in the bigger game would be the point that reserves or supports would matter.
I noticed in the Shadows of the Eagles game, that at mid game, a goodly number of units were reaching their ‘weakened’ status and that all of a sudden, the commanders job became fraught trying to hold everyone together (reducing hits) and the search was on for fresh units immediately to hand …… of course there were none!
Though the situation is simple, it would highlight those system that always allow a successful assault or a successful repulse, so perhaps we are hoping that most test will land somewhere in the middle ground of all that.
As you say, the 321 rules are an incredible price :-)
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Got my copy of the rules in the mail a couple days back. Must say, it is quite a nice job, both printing and rules design. I last tested an earlier version of the rules in February 2020, just before the lockdown. I liked them then but a lot of polishing happened while I was quarantined. Some really elegant rules ideas, like the skirmish screens. And the charge/close combat has been sharpened. Looking forward to playing the first scenario when I get back home next month.
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Having played a solo game using the rules, there are some nice features, but also some strange things. Fresh Infantry don’t need to form square against light cavalry (and even against heavies they should be ok). It is much better to charge in line than in column. Infantry can charge cavalry - and will be well advised to do so, since heavy cavalry cannot evade, and charging infantry get to fire at reduced effect.
So, yes, the skirmisher rules are good, and there are some nice ideas, but somehow the rules don’t gel for me.
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Page 27: infantry may not charge cavalry.
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Missed that, thanks. Is there anything saying they do not pursue beaten cavalry?
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Missed that, thanks. Is there anything saying they do not pursue beaten cavalry?
As far as I can tell, no. Looks like an oversight.
Infantry in line has a 50% chance of not pursuing, and a 50% chance of having the option. They can't catch the cavalry in any case.
Edit: I do think cavalry is best used when the infantry has been roughed up first. If the foot has 2 more hits than the cavalry at contact they will bolt before close combat resolution unless in square.
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Oh sure, cavalry versus infantry who are not fresh is a different matter entirely.
I’m a bit disturbed by the fact that a column will always lose to a line in melee; that doesn’t seem right at all.
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I can accept the rules as written, but I do take Steve’s points on the question of both columns and cavalry hitting line and not having the impact that perhaps other rulesets have ‘taught’ us to expect.
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The rules feel to me more like a Seven Years War set with added skirmishers than a Napoleonic one. Infantry are best fighting in line. Could be fixed fairly easily by giving infantry in line a penalty when fighting cavalry, and giving attack columns 4 dice in melee. The pursuit rules also feel a bit strange for infantry; I don’t recall many accounts of Napoleonic infantry pursuing. Compared to the new version of Lasalle, or General d’Armee or Piquet FOB v3 or even Shako the rules feel a bit flat.
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I suppose one problem that rules have with columns is latitude within the rules that allow two columns to strike one line and being overly powerful because of that. I think it is the General d’ Armee rules from Dave Brown that state there must be a gap between columns that would equal the width if the unit shook out into line, which prevents that sort of thing.
In SotE providing the infantry line unit is not weakened, then there is no incentive to attempt to go into square under ‘Emergency procedures’ against a frontal charge as you need to take an ability test and if you fail, not only do you not go into square, but you then can’t fight back.
I was surprised that when I just stood there on two separate occasions to accept the charge, the cavalry took two losses on the way in against fire and then two losses in combat. Since all those hits are then taken into account at the end of the close combat, it seems invariably the cavalry will bounce off and fall back weakened and worse, take an extra hit.
So in effect there is no incentive for cavalry to frontally charge good ordered units and no incentive for those good order units to go into square. That might actually be a realistic reflection, I am not well read enough to say, it just sits outside what may be my ‘Hollywood’ expectations.
This of course does not take into account the situation on the ground that may well involve other units such as a second cavalry regiment or artillery support etc.
Neither does it suppose that maybe the mechanic’s intention is to try and force cavalry to attain the positional advantage (flank attack) that perhaps it should be working for.
I suppose part of me just needs some more convincing - but I would be quite willing to accept that if it were made.
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As I don't have the rules yet, what is special about the skirmishers rules?
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Aside from light battalions, many formed units can throw out a skirmisher screen to front or flank. These take (and give) fire instead of the formed unit. Screens just fade back into the formed unit during charges. Very simple and nice.
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For the record, infantry cannot pursue cavalry in SotE - pursuit is counted as a charge and infantry cannot charge cavalry, as has already been mentioned. (p.40, bottom right, for those proud owners of the rules).
Regarding column vs. line, I was of course prepared for criticism and discussion on this point. I will only say here that I firmly believe that attacking columns were not the unstoppable battering rams that some believe they were. A quote from Philip Haythornthwaite expresses the conclusion I came to:
"...attack by column was ideally preceded by a horde of skirmishers and after the enemy line had been bombarded by artillery, so that the opposition might be wavering before the column even arrived within musket range."
Mr Haythornthwaite maintains that it was "under these circumstances" that assaults by column would be effective. I follow his view, which seems to me to be supported by such evidence as I could find in secondary sources.
As for cavalry charging infantry in line, my own conclusion is that the basic realities of the SYW were indeed maintained - as Brent Nosworthy has written:
"By the Napoleonic era, it was generally recognised that if the defending infantry consisted of veteran troops, well-led and determined to hold their position, they would be difficult or even impossible to overthrow."
Nosworthy goes on to to make the obvious point that infantry unprepared, weakened by fire or of lower quality would indeed be vulnerable. Where to draw the line in a set of rules is tricky, but I thought it best to make those considering a frontal charge against decent infantry in line think twice, as it appears cavalry commanders in Napoleonic times did. To quote Nosworthy again:
"it didn't make much sense to throw a regiment against every infantry formation encountered during the ebb and flow of battle. [...] regimental commanders sought to avoid needless failures."
Concentrating 2 cavalry regiments against 1 infantry battalion formed in line is an obvious tactic to break infantry in line which is allowed by the rules. More generally, the idea is to get on the flanks of infantry formations or attack only weakened or inferior troops, which I personally believe broadly represents the Napoleonic experience. Of course, I accept that others may disagree.
Readers might want to check the exchanges on these topics on the SotE website:
https://www.shadowoftheeagles.com/forum/questions-about-the-rules (https://www.shadowoftheeagles.com/forum/questions-about-the-rules)
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vtsoagames mentions that 'aside from light battalions, many formed units can throw out a skirmish screen to front or flank'.
Just for the record, light battalions can of course also deploy skirmish screens. For simplicity in the rules, skirmish screens are only effective in the front sector of their parent unit.
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vtsoagames mentions that 'aside from light battalions, many formed units can throw out a skirmish screen to front or flank'.
Just for the record, light battalions can of course also deploy skirmish screens. For simplicity in the rules, skirmish screens are only effective in the front sector of their parent unit.
My bad. I meant that light battalions can also go entirely into skirmish order, not just throw out screens.
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Keith, thanks for the detail and insight. I ran a couple of cavalry attacks today against an infantry flank as an exercise ….. devastating for the infantry and this accords with a view of cavalry needing to work for positional advantage.
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Is there a place in North America to buy these in hardcover?
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Is there a place in North America to buy these in hardcover?
On Military Matters https://onmilitarymatters.com/dfcatalog.php?period=0900 (https://onmilitarymatters.com/dfcatalog.php?period=0900)
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Many thanks - order has been sent!!