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Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: precinctomega on May 28, 2021, 08:25:47 AM

Title: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: precinctomega on May 28, 2021, 08:25:47 AM
I am thrilled to let the LAF community know that the newest Horizon Wars game, Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark (https://www.wargamevault.com/product/357327/Horizon-Wars-Infinite-Dark) is now available to purchase in PDF or hardback print-on-demand editions.

(https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2021/5/28/1107002_sm-Abillionsuns%2C%20Armada%2C%20Dropfleet%2C%20Firestorm%2C%20Fullthrust%2C%20Horizon%20Wars%2C%20Infinite%20Dark.png) (https://www.wargamevault.com/product/357327/Horizon-Wars-Infinite-Dark)

The glorious, unstoppable expansion of humanity into the stars has ended. The benevolent guidance of the mighty Artilects saw the full range of humans — natural, synthetic and uplifted partners — mature into a species of curiosity and innovation. But now the Artilects have gone, and the stars are the playground of their ruthless inheritors.

But the framework of jump-gates that made a galactic civilisation possible is falling apart.

Take command of your own fleet of vessels, recruit heroes to take their helms, and take to the spaceways to build your own legend in the newest game in the critically-acclaimed Horizon Wars series.

Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark is the new starship combat miniatures game from Precinct Omega Publishing. Use your favourite spaceship miniatures to play games in any of three command levels, from deep space dogfighting up to capital ship encounters, in Solo, Co-op or Versus play modes.

Here are some links to the blog posts I've written about the game and its development:

The Elevator Pitch (https://www.precinctomega.co.uk/post/infinite-dark-design-blog-1-elevator-pitch)
Command Levels (https://www.precinctomega.co.uk/post/infinite-dark-design-blog-2-command-levels)
Vessels (https://www.precinctomega.co.uk/post/infinite-dark-design-blog-3-vessels)
Stats (https://www.precinctomega.co.uk/post/infinite-dark-design-blog-4-vessel-stats)
Pilots (https://www.precinctomega.co.uk/post/infinite-dark-design-blog-5-pilots)
Missions (https://www.precinctomega.co.uk/post/infinite-dark-design-blog-6-missions)
Campaigns (https://www.precinctomega.co.uk/post/infinite-dark-design-blog-7-campaigns)

R.
Title: Re: Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark - the new spaceship combat game from Precinct Omega
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on May 28, 2021, 11:59:59 AM
This going to be distributed to stores the way the original HW game was?  Might grab a copy if the FLGS gets it in, although the elevator pitch and the other posts honestly don't appeal much.  Outside of dogfighting games (your CL1, slopping into CL2 - which sounds like "adventurer class" ships in RPG parlance) I'm not a big fan of crew skills significantly affecting starship combat, probably owing to bad experiences with ACTA and BFG.  The range of Mass/Power options for ship designs also sounds too narrow for my tastes. 

Still likely to be some ideas to mine from the missions, solo, and campaign rules - there almost always are - even when the combat mechanics of a game don't draw me in.  For ex, Flagship's old Starship! rules still has a pretty great campaign engine, although I wouldn't play the tactical game if you held a gun to my head.

Best of luck regardless.  Hope sales go well for you. 
Title: Re: Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark - the new spaceship combat game from Precinct Omega
Post by: precinctomega on May 28, 2021, 02:32:56 PM
Hi, Rich.

HW was published by Osprey with access to Bloomsbury' distribution network. I'm now publishing independently, with just me, and I'm currently publishing via Wargame Vault/OneBookShelf Inc. However, I'm hoping to get my books onto the shelves of independent retailers in the UK from around September onwards, by the simple measure of turning up in person with a pile of books. Already had an enthusiastic "yes" from one shop. We'll see how it goes.

"Adventurer class"!  :o Damnit! Why did no one tell me there was a good term for it already... I've been struggling to explain CL2 from the outset. Yes! Adventurer class!

There's a bunch of mission and a moderately dense amount of setting in the book, so you might well find something in there to mine. Only challenge is for me to get it onto those shelves. What's your FLGS? I might have to give them a call.
Title: Re: Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark - the new spaceship combat game from Precinct Omega
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on May 28, 2021, 05:09:56 PM
"Adventurer class"!  :o Damnit! Why did no one tell me there was a good term for it already... I've been struggling to explain CL2 from the outset. Yes! Adventurer class!

It's a pretty old term in Traveller circles.  IIRC FASA used it for some of their earliest products (which were deck plans) although I don't think they originated it.  I kind of miss the days when they were still the Freedonian Aeronautics and Space Administration.

Quote
There's a bunch of mission and a moderately dense amount of setting in the book, so you might well find something in there to mine. Only challenge is for me to get it onto those shelves. What's your FLGS? I might have to give them a call.

Afraid it's in the US.  Odds of them stocking the book directly are low, especially with international shipping rates being what they've become.  If you still want to try, their site is here:

 https://www.zombie-planet.com/

Still, best of luck, as I said.
Title: Re: Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark - the new spaceship combat game from Precinct Omega
Post by: precinctomega on May 31, 2021, 11:10:53 AM
Quote
Afraid it's in the US.

Dagnabbit! Well, I'm trying to work out how I can afford to do a UK tour, so I suspect a US tour is going to be a non-starter for at least a little while...

That said, US retailers can still stock the book pretty easily if they contact me. I can give them a discount code for retail stock of the hardback edition that they can order from WGV. They are printed and shipped in the US, so the price isn't going to be too bad. But you don't get the benefit of me turning up to explain how to play the game (yet).

I will start contacting indy US retailers eventually but my focus will be on UK retailers for the time being for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark - the new spaceship combat game from Precinct Omega
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on May 31, 2021, 12:59:35 PM
That said, US retailers can still stock the book pretty easily if they contact me. I can give them a discount code for retail stock of the hardback edition that they can order from WGV. They are printed and shipped in the US, so the price isn't going to be too bad. But you don't get the benefit of me turning up to explain how to play the game (yet).

I'll mention it to the owner but he's been remarkably negative about stocking direct from manufacturers in the past.  Being made in the US might help, I think the sticking point in some of the past cases has been international shipping costs. 
Title: Re: Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark - the new spaceship combat game from Precinct Omega
Post by: precinctomega on June 01, 2021, 06:51:47 AM
I hear that.

I've recently been trading reviews and painting guides with manufacturers in return for free shipping!
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Easy E on June 01, 2021, 05:51:30 PM
Glad to see another game up and out there Robey! 

Let us all know how the "Book Tour" goes. 
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Robosmith on June 03, 2021, 12:09:43 PM
Hope you don't mind some feedback in the thread, but I've been hearing about this around my circles and I've heard the same thing from several different playgroups which is worth considering. I'm not looking to engage in any sort of debate on this, only mention the only feedback I've seen is. "The cover looks woke, not even going to check it out". People who buy a lot of indie games and love digging up old rule sets which should make up your core audience were turned off by the cover and walked away. It didn't tell them anything about the game and what they did see implied things to them you may not have intended. Assuming the elevator pitch image is correct it looks to be a space battles game, so why isn't the cover a bridge crew looking out over a space battle or ships engaging in combat?

I read the elevator pitch and still wasn't sure what the game was supposed to be about. It's about putting people in space ships? Doesn't X-wing already do that? The cover doesn't tell me anything about the game, the elevator is more commentary on the genre than it's own functionality. In terms of browsing a game store shelves for what to pick up, doesn't really stand out on either front.

Maybe the games great, but the presentation has turned some people off. Might be worth considering changing that if it gets another version. If it's a space ship battle game where pilots matter show that off with them piloting space ships instead of generic sci fi guys on a black background.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on June 03, 2021, 02:41:35 PM
Y'know, I'm not super interested in this game myself - but anyone who'd literally judge a book by its cover based on it somehow being "woke" isn't worth listening to.  Stupidest thing I've heard all week, which is really saying something.  Usually it's some dolt in congress who wins that prize.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Easy E on June 03, 2021, 03:14:33 PM
We demand battle reports!

Show us how the game plays please?  I want to know more. 
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Robosmith on June 03, 2021, 04:59:30 PM
Y'know, I'm not super interested in this game myself - but anyone who'd literally judge a book by its cover based on it somehow being "woke" isn't worth listening to.  Stupidest thing I've heard all week, which is really saying something.  Usually it's some dolt in congress who wins that prize.
If covers weren't important then movie posters wouldn't exist and everything would have a simple white background with black arial font to tell you it exists. Covers are how you decide which of the options you have in front of you are the ones you want to check out. DrivethruRPG currently has 31,915 science fiction downloads on offer. If I'm not using the covers and elevator pitch next to them how am I supposed to ever explore the catalog and find what I want? I doubt many people read that many books in their life time.

You can call it stupid all you want but the cover was judged the way it was by completely separate groups for the same reason. It didn't say anything about the game, it just presented random people on the cover.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on June 03, 2021, 05:39:57 PM
Quote
You can call it stupid all you want but the cover was judged the way it was by completely separate groups for the same reason.

Now now, you claimed you didn't want to engage in debate about this, remember?

Why don't you link to these groups so Robey can address the criticisms directly, anyway?
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: AxolotlQuestions on June 04, 2021, 08:31:35 AM
I have to agree: "looks woke" is an absolutely idiotic criticism.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: pixelgeek on June 04, 2021, 03:26:10 PM
Y'know, I'm not super interested in this game myself - but anyone who'd literally judge a book by its cover based on it somehow being "woke" isn't worth listening to.  Stupidest thing I've heard all week, which is really saying something.  Usually it's some dolt in congress who wins that prize.

Agreed. People who use the term should just be ignored
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Westfalia Chris on June 04, 2021, 05:45:57 PM
As requested by the forum rules, please avoid politics, identity or otherwise. Thanks!
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Kontuz on June 04, 2021, 11:40:34 PM
I'd also like info on what it's like to play this game.
Bonus points for going over how to escalate from one abstraction level to another.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Jagannath on June 06, 2021, 08:55:10 PM
Yeah I’m pretty interested in this for small encounters - one on me duels that’s rent quite dogfights etc.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Pascal on June 09, 2021, 12:10:04 AM
Wow!  $56 for the book and PDF is a lot in comparison to the Skirmish game which is $38.

I would have to see some batrep/game play videos to understand how this compares to say A Billion Suns.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: precinctomega on July 01, 2021, 09:29:45 AM
Wow!  $56 for the book and PDF is a lot in comparison to the Skirmish game which is $38.

I would have to see some batrep/game play videos to understand how this compares to say A Billion Suns.

It's a bigger book (almost 20 pages longer) with a lot more expensive art in it (I couldn't afford more than just the cover for Zero Dark, but I pushed the boat out for Infinite Dark, art-wise). I, too, would love to see some batrep/gameplay videos. I tend to feel that the designer isn't the right person to do these. Plus, I don't have the camera set-up that a decent batrep would require.

Without going into the identity politics of the cover, here, I would admit that, in retrospect, I might have included more, y'know, actual ships on the cover. But there is logic to the design. First, the game plays at three different "scales" (as previously mentioned) and the three figures represent each of those scales. Second, a big part of what distinguishes the game from other spaceship combat games is the inclusion of named "hero" character that pilot or command your vessels, so I wanted the cover art to emphasize the human part of the game over the ships.

As a final note, though, people with other objections to the cover art are very welcome to keep their money. I don't want it.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Easy E on July 01, 2021, 05:34:49 PM
I, too, would love to see some batrep/gameplay videos. I tend to feel that the designer isn't the right person to do these. Plus, I don't have the camera set-up that a decent batrep would require.


I understand the thought process, but perhaps a batrep that you are there for to add color.  Perhaps two of your playtesters, then break it down into basic example/components using a hand held/Phone video.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: precinctomega on July 05, 2021, 08:31:39 AM
I understand the thought process, but perhaps a batrep that you are there for to add color.  Perhaps two of your playtesters, then break it down into basic example/components using a hand held/Phone video.

I've head that there are people who have friends in their local club who will play-test their games. This isn't me. My nearest play-tester lives 200 miles away. My local clubs are full of wonderful people, but none of them is interested in play-testing my games on a regular basis.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on July 05, 2021, 11:55:00 AM
Re: Batreps, you could try contacting Ash from Guerilla Miniatures Games over on Youtube and see if he'd like to do a video or series testing out your game.  The guy's got a crowded schedule but goes out of his way to promote smaller manufacturers and lesser-known games, and has probably significantly impacted sales for quite a few of them, including Relicblade, Forbidden Psalm, Zona Alfa and A Billion Suns (or at least Brigade's starship minis that were used in the ABS vids).  He's a professional youtuber with the production values to match.  Certainly not the only similar creator out there, but he seems to be more willing to look at the little guys instead of grinding out nothing but GW content than most, probably owing to having written rules sets of his own. 

Channel main page here:

https://www.youtube.com/c/GuerrillaMiniatureGames/featured

You might also try talking to MiniWarGaming.com, who are one of those "similar creators" out there, and seem to be branching out more than they used to.  Their channel is here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/miniwargaming
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: precinctomega on July 06, 2021, 02:08:56 PM
Thanks for taking the time, Rich.

Ash is a top guy, for sure, but he's already had a free copy of Horizon Wars: Zero Dark out of me and no sign of a review. As you say, he's got a full schedule already dealing with people with a lot more money to push around than I have.

And the Miniwargaming guys haven't replied to any of the several messages I've sent, offering them review copies, so...

I will make my own videos. It's just a case of building up the capital to get the hardware and take the time. Right now, it costs me roughly the revenue of 6-8 months' sales to put out any one book (mostly because of the cost of art, but that's how I've decided to try to make my books, so that's on me). I'm mostly sustained by Patreon income, right now, and I'm trying to build my YouTube content - putting episodes of my podcast up in video form and edited versions of my regular Friday livestreams - because if I can double my subscribers I can actually monetize that content.

So video batreps and HTPs are pretty much inevitable, even if I just have to bite the bullet and accept that the quality won't be what I'd like it to be. Tbf, I do actually have at least two people, locally, who would probably be prepared to let me put the camera on them when we roll some dice...
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on July 06, 2021, 03:54:35 PM
Ah well, wasn't aware you'd already reached out to them.  Not 100% surprised about Ash, little more so on MWG.  They have a lot more people on staff (ie more than one) and at least lately seem a lot more open to trying new things.  Still, I suppose the real money/views for both channels comes from GW vids.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: dijit on July 07, 2021, 06:25:33 PM
 Let me pitch in  for a moment. I'm one of the playtesters for Infinite Dark, and I really (as in really) like the game. Most of my spaceship gaming has been fighter based - Silent Death, Bag the Jedi, X-wing, etc. So that flavours a bit of what I'm about to say.

The rules are for me that sweet point between simplicity and grittiness. If you've played Horizon Wars, then the dice mechanics are very similar, though it's also true that Robey has learnt quite a bit since then, and it shows in more elegant rules and clearer descriptions. The movement mechanics which often hinders space combat games, work exceptionally well and are some of the easiest I've used that don't have templates (ie Xwing - templates add simplicity, but sometimes get in the way). I think there where the rules shine most are the solo rules. Both with infinite dark and zero dark, the solo rules function very well and are playing card based, with the suit and number telling what the red force (opponent) will do. The ship design rules are also very flexible and allow you to do all sorts of ships, which together with the pilot/captain rules make for some interesting semi roleplaying games too. It's not just an Xwing any more, but your head strong new pilot aiming to prove he's just as good as the rest of the squadron piloting an Xwing.

All my ships have been CL1 (fighter) based, so I had to go out and get and load of the plastic spaceships from The Plastic Soldier Company to play CL3 (fleet based). I've yet to play a full CL3 game, as my ships aren't finished being painted yet, but I've a good few CL1 games under my belt and can say they're the best starfighter rules I've found so far.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Gibby on July 07, 2021, 09:43:02 PM
It sounds really interesting. I like the idea of the roleplaying side of things.
Title: Re: [COMMERCIAL] Horizon Wars: Infinite Dark, Precinct Omega's new space combat game
Post by: Jagannath on July 09, 2021, 08:51:20 AM
Thanks Dijt, that’s really helpful. I’ve long wanted a sort of RPGish spaceship rules to play a lone ship in various scenarios. I’m happy only using rules as a starting point, and it sounds like these might be a good starting point.