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Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Mr. White on July 05, 2021, 05:12:03 PM
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After deliberating for months, I guess I'm gonna need to air my inability to make a decision here to a bunch of online strangers. I figure the company here is better than anywhere else so here goes...
I'm generally a 'host' gamer so I would be painting and providing all the sides and the table, but I’ve been struggling with which way to go with Dragon Rampant. I have two ideas that aren’t really compatible but both are very intriguing. One at 28mm one at 20mm. I've done projects at both scales so am weighing my thoughts on them and I've bolded the items that weigh the most.
28mm - use victrix and oathmark models for dark ages fantasy retinues. Each oathmark box would almost be a complete retinue but I’d add a creature or two. Still, armies of undead, humans, dwarves, goblins, etc.
Pros - All of the factions would match in theme, so the table would look great, imo. I can order these models through my LGS which I prefer to do when possible to help them out. 28mm is pretty standard, so I'd lots of solid options to flesh out these retinues with various creatures.
Cons - These models will require assembly...and I find I don't enjoy assembly much anymore and far prefer the painting step. It would take me a while to even get _one_ retinue to the table. The minis would require many more RUBs, almost a RUB per retinue, and space is a bit of an issue. This scale would require a decent size table and would cost quite a bit more then 20mm.
20mm (1/72) - Use a mix of Zvezda and Redbox/Dark Alliance. So, like Zvezda Egyptian infantry with Dark Alliance mummies and anubis warriors.
Pros - Little to no assembly, basing would be the most laborious step and this scale is easier to paint. The 'To the table' time would be very quick. Can be cheap. Redbox only armies (like Barbarians/Cimmarians) would be very cheap. smaller minis require way less storage. I can probably fit 2-3 retinues in a single RUB. Smaller tabletop space needed for a game. With less available at this scale, each find is a like a treasure hunt.
Cons - Availability at this scale isn't solid or robust. The factions would be a little all over the place. This would be more of a 'Secret Wars/BattleWorld' setting with samurai v orcs v french knights v undead v egyptians v barbarians, etc. I tend to enjoy world building and head canon so this lack of theme cohesion is a decent negative for me. I would not be able to source very many minis for this project through my local game store.
So, I know we all have our own parameters of what we prefer or will tolerate in the hobby, and the decision is ultimately mine, but as a thought exercise, what are your...thoughts?
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Having read what you put down, I have a suggestion or two.
1) Go for an even smaller scale.
15mm has quite a lot out there.
10mm or even 6mm where Historical figures can also be used.
2) Trawl e-bay etc for second hand figures. They may well be
already assembled &/or painted. Whatever scale is available
is the one you go for.
Personal note, if I went for 10mm (or smaller) I would base up
in units, much quicker to move & not so fiddly. Have a tick sheet
to record casualties.
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I'd go with 1/72 all the way. For me, it's the best scale for largish battles, for several reasons:
1. It's dirt cheap. Many boxes that cost under a tenner will give you a full Dragon Rampant retinue (or an entire Hordes of the Things army, for that matter).
2. The breadth of complementary historicals is extraordinary. There's muchbetter coverage for medievals and ancients in 1/72 than there is in hard-plastic 28mm, for sure. Plastic Soldier Review bears this out.
3. Cross-manufacturer compatibility is much greater at 1/72 scale than at 28mm or (especially) at 15mm.
4. With manufacturers like Caesar, Italieri and Zvezda, quality is right up there.
5. You're in a sweet spot for cross-scale compatibility. Many of the larger 15mm/18mm orcs and dwarves (e.g. Blood Dawn//Magister Militum, Alternative Armies and Eureka) are actually better at 1/72 than at their supposed scale (i.e. they won't be bigger than men!). At the same time, you can use lots of 28mm orcs, goblins, etc., as ogres, trolls and the like. Bigger monsters from Reaper Bones or Wizzkids work just fine.
6. As you tend to get lots of duplicates in a box, you can be smart with basing. For example, with a typical Dark Alliance box of four infantry sprues, you could base one or two individually, one on round multi-bases of varying size and one on HotT-style mass-battle bases (i.e. 60mm frontage). You can use all of those in Dragon Rampant, and after a few boxes, you'll have a huge range of options for different games (or just for quicker movement in DR).
7. Painting cavalry is much easier and quicker.
8. Because of the range of historical stuff, it's much easier to assemble distinctive human cultures to scratch your world-building itch. It'd be much easier and cheaper to do Howard's Hyborian age in 1/72 than in any other scale, I think.
This shot below from one of our HotT games this weekend shows lots of my Caesar and Dark Alliance stuff, along with a friend's army that contains a lot of 15mm stuff that works fine (e.g. the beastmen, the wolves and the goblin cannon crew).
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Oh, and a further thing. You're in the US, right? Loads of the old Ral Partha stuff from Iron Wind or Ral Partha legacy works brilliantly at 1/72 scale: things like the marvellous Julie Guthrie gnolls (too small for 28mm, but spot on for 1/72) and all the old Tom Meier ogres and trolls.
You could make a great Elite Foot unit using Tom Meier's old giant goblins as, er, giant goblins. And his lesser troglodytes are perfectly scaled (in both senses) too.
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I'm a 28mm person, so for me the answer would always be 28mm. Victrix and Oathmark figures look so much better than anything I've seen in smaller scales (to me, your mileage may vary). Sure, there's some assembly required but the Oathmark figures are super straight forward and Victrix are worth the bother.
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Like Ogrob I’d say 28mm all day long. I never thought I’d want to build multipart plastics, but it grows on you.
Go large...accept no compromises... ;)
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I have done fantasy on literally every scale. If I had my time over I would just go 1/72.
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Can you get some Crusader Miniatures figures? The Dark Age lines fit perfectly with Oathmark figures and since they’re metal there’s no assembly aside from shields and spears.
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I have pretty limited experience, but for me the the obvious border is:
- If its fantasy and skirmish, then 28mm
- If its historical and mass battle, then 1/72
- If its really big mass battle, then even smaller (maybe 10mm), independent from the genre
So a mass battle (and as I know, Dragon Rampart is not a really big mass battle game) fantasy is not that obvious, but I still would go with 28mm, because the variety and availability of the miniatures is much better.
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There are options that have much less assembly for 28mm if you look for it.
For example, other than some conversions for some specific things, you could do the majority of your army as humans with the Reaper Anhurians. Where all you really need to do is glue the majority of them to a base with some sand and beyond the usual cleanup work. Some conversion work for variety (You can use parts of the command set with one real conversion (take the drummer, remove the drum and sticks, attach some ammunition and swap the top of the standard bearers pole for a hook and you can use them with the leader in the set for an easy 3 man crew for a warmachine such as the Nolzur's/Deep Cuts catapult), only one that requires assembly is the cavalry. While there's a bit less variety in the bones troops, they're still cheap and easy to get with only the command sets and the elite in metal only. Then find a caster and some monsters.
I'm working on such a force now, though I'm not sure if I'm going to just buy another few cavalry or rebase what I have because I'd based them for another game and have a set of 5 on the 2" rounds with 5 cavalry and a wardog that I proxy as another member of the unit because I wanted one...and the model is to large to work in most dog units, so the captain has his hound with him.
Though, if you're looking at Victrix, you could also do a mix of historical and fantasy minis with swaps between forces. If you're playing a more dark ages type force, swapping in a dragon or the like actually mixes rather well to do both things.
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One point that might be significant for a 'host' gamer is the size of the table. If you've got a 6' x 4' table, then you've got plenty of room. But if you're operating on a normal dinner table (6' x 3'), then Dragon Rampant can get a little cramped in 28mm.
Now, most games of DR that I've played have been in both 28mm and on a 6' x 3' table. But since acquiring a bigger table (6' x 4') to use in the garden, I've found our games much improved. One reason I got into 1/72 was to facilitate games with a smaller 'footprint' on a 3' wide table, and the smaller scale will come into its own again in winter when we're using a smaller table inside again. Essentially, a 1/72 unit takes up about half the space of a 28mm one, so there's a lot more space on the table, and that greatly improves the game. It's one reason that I'd advocate 1/72 over 28mm for DR but not particularly for Saga (which is designed with dinner tables in mind).
I also think the 'greater availability' point about 28mm is a bit of a red herring. Lots of monsters from older 25/28mm manufacturers (e.g. Ral Partha and Grenadier/Mirliton) are actually a better fit with 1/72 than with modern 28mm, and there are very few 28mm monsters that won't work just as well with 1/72.
The cost advantages are significant too. If you want a reduced-model unit of ogres in 1/72, you can just pick up three or four 28mm orcs or hobgoblins, who'll look suitably imposing in 1/72 scale. If you're using the same figures in 28mm, you'll need a dozen per unit.
And then there's cavalry. Dragon Rampant's definitely a better game when played with plenty of cavalry units. But the time and expense in fielding 28mm units is quite considerable. In 1/72, you can get a couple of full-strength units for less than a couple of pints - through boxes like this (http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=861) or this (http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1511) (two full cavalry units and a reduced-model camel one?) or this (http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1290) (three units!), for example.
Painting 1/72 cavalry is much less tricky and time-consuming than the same in 28mm. And the scale is much more forgiving. At the weekend, we played a couple of games in which my son's friend (who's 12) fielded several untis of Italieri mounted knights that he'd painted himself. They were very simply painted in bright, heraldic colours - and they looked fantastic! An experienced adult painter could go to town.
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Thanks all, for your input!
I think I'm going to come down on the 1/72 side for now. The biggest factors being:
Time - My son is 14 and only has a few more years left before he leaves. 28mm armies would take me a long time to produce. 1/72 I can probably have 4 done by the end of the year. Certainly two to at least start playing some games by this fall. Heck, I can do those Dark Alliance 'Warriors of the Dead' models all as ghost and have a complete army done in a weekend probably.
Space - We're currently in a small home, so play on a dinner table. That works for Blood Bowl and such but it's too small for army games. I think 1/72 can be done on the kitchen table.
Some factors that sorta pain me:
Cost - This won't be as cheap as it could be because I'm going to probably want to do like an army with a unit of goblins, cimmerian chaos warrior types, fire demons, and warg riders. Or one with amazons with centaurs and minotaurs. Another with nomads with mummies and anubi warriors. So, like 3-4 boxes per army instead of just one.
Sourcing - i really want to help the LGS...the only one in my area. they're new and I try to go through them, but all these Dark Alliance boxes will come from elsewhere.
Theme - I enjoy games with a rich setting. Probably too many GW games back in the day. Randomly themed armies squaring off appeal less. Maybe this'll be good for me though somehow.
In the end, I'm convinced the lower time sink and small space is a better fit atm. Plus, Dragon Rampant seems a good fit for a wide variety gonzo fantasy table from Dark Alliance fantasy offerings.
However, I'm not going to be too far away from 28mm projects...I've got a large Baron's War pledge coming that's all 28mm and I'll probably use the 'more serious' (I say lightly) Lion Rampant for that project. Plus, I'm a regular Blood Bowl coach so there's more 28mm (or is it 32mm now?).
Thanks again all!
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Some factors that sorta pain me:
Cost - This won't be as cheap as it could be because I'm going to probably want to do like an army with a unit of goblins, cimmerian chaos warrior types, fire demons, and warg riders. Or one with amazons with centaurs and minotaurs. Another with nomads with mummies and anubi warriors. So, like 3-4 boxes per army instead of just one.
One thing I'd recommend is to start by buying a couple of boxes that get you close to field a complete retinue each - and this is the crucial bit - with different unit types. It's quite easy to get swamped with 1/72 as you're potentially buying c.50 figures a box. And then you can add on 'specials' in the form of giant monsters from Reaper Bones or wherever.
So, for example, if you were weighing up Dark Alliance Nomads 1 versus Nomads 2, you might consider that Nomads 1 offers you 16 archers (a unit of 12 Light Missiles plus 4 spare) and 32 lightly armed warriors (two units of Bellicose Foot or Light Foot with 8 spare). But then you can use the spare figures together to get a unit of Light Foot with Mixed Weapons (perhaps using the 8 shieldless spearmen for that unit to distinguish it from the other infantry, which works thematically as the Mixed unit won't have the defensive capabilities of the others). So that would give you Light Missiles (4 points), Bellicose Foot x 2 (8 points) and Mixed Light Missiles (5 points), for 17 of your 24-point retinue. You could probably bring it up to 24 points with a few fantasy upgrades (Venomous for the archers, for example, for 3 points, and a sprinkling of Hatred all round).
(https://theredbox.com.ua/ckfinder/userfiles/images/ALL72048_600_zad.jpg)
But if you go with Nomads 2, you get 12 archers (Light Missiles, so 4 points), 16 armoured guys with polearms (Offensive Heavy Foot for 6 points plus 4 spare, or 2 x Elite Foot for 12) and 12 armoured guys with hand weapons and shield (1 x Bellicose Foot with Shiny Armour for 6 points or 2 x Elite Foot for 12 points). You can't have four Elite Foot units, but you could field two for 12 points, the Offensive Heavy Foot for 6 and the Light Missiles for 4, so then you'd just need two points of fantasy upgrades to reach the standard total. Or you could treat all the guys with back racks as Elite Foot (3 units for 18 points) and the guys without as Bellicose Foot with Shiny Armour (6 points), which gets you to 24 points with the archers as an option for a bigger game or, with Sharpshooter, as a 6-point alternative for one of the other units. You could also use combine some of the lighter-armoured (i.e. shieldless) warriors with the archers to create a couple of units of Light Foot with Mixed Weapons (10 points). So there are plenty of ways that you could get to a full retinue from that box alone.
(https://theredbox.com.ua/ckfinder/userfiles/images/ALL72049_600_zad.jpg)
With either, add a suitably thematic 6-point Greater Warbeast (a Reaper Bones giant scorpion, for example), and you're well placed with lots of options and alternatives:
(https://images.reapermini.com/4/77337_w_1.jpg)
In a similar vein, it's worth looking at other 1/72 boxes to see what your quickest starting point for a game is. The Dark Alliances Half-Orcs 2 (Infantry) is good, because you can pool the eight bowmen and crossbowmen, then add the three command figures and an officer to get Heavy or Light Missiles. And you can use the greataxe-wielders to form Elite Foot and the regulars as Bellicose Foot with Shiny Armour, and so on. The four sets of three command figures in the box give you loads of 'filler'-induced versatility.
Theme - I enjoy games with a rich setting. Probably too many GW games back in the day. Randomly themed armies squaring off appeal less. Maybe this'll be good for me though somehow.
In the end, I'm convinced the lower time sink and small space is a better fit atm. Plus, Dragon Rampant seems a good fit for a wide variety gonzo fantasy table from Dark Alliance fantasy offerings.
I'd have thought that Dark Alliance's 'Tolkien through New Line with a bit extra' gives you huge potential for a coherent setting - especially if you add in historicals to flesh them out (camelry and cavalry for the nomads, etc.).
In any case, good luck!
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With the 1:72 the 3/2/1 basing would work perfectly. So a unit of six consists of a base with 3 figures, a base with 2 figures and a base with 1 figure. A unit of twelve just add a base with six or double them. There is a bit of back and forth switching if you take a series of single casualties but this gives flexibility in terms of figure removal but minimizes bases to be moved and actual bases to make.
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With the 1:72 the 3/2/1 basing would work perfectly. So a unit of six consists of a base with 3 figures, a base with 2 figures and a base with 1 figure. A unit of twelve just add a base with six or double them. There is a bit of back and forth switching if you take a series of single casualties but this gives flexibility in terms of figure removal but minimizes bases to be moved and actual bases to make.
You could do the 3s as HotT/DBA/ADLG/etc., etc., bases, for two reasons: first, you'd gradually be building armies for a whole wealth of games; and second, you'd have an 'ordered' front rank that you could line up (i.e. two 3-man bases in line) as a very handy way of showing that a 'wall of spears/shields' has been formed in Dragon Rampant.
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I'd have thought that Dark Alliance's 'Tolkien through New Line with a bit extra' gives you huge potential for a coherent setting - especially if you add in historicals to flesh them out (camelry and cavalry for the nomads, etc.).
In any case, good luck!
Great points all around, Hobgoblin. And you are 100% correct...I _could_ do a complete retinue with many single boxes...but the hobbyist in me is gonna wanna see Nomad Set 1 in a retinue with Dark Alliance Mummies and Anubis warriors. All led by a liche or something. Yeah, this is on me. ;)
Regarding the 'Tolkien through New Line with a bit extra' you are also correct, but I'm not wanting to do New Line LotR, so my eye is on the more generic looking fantasy units...Nomad Set 1 over 2 for example. But as I mentioned I think doing crazy fantasy is part of the charm of Dragon Rampant, and I need to be ok with it.
I do like the call out to Reaper models for warbeasts...good idea! One unit I seem to struggle with are....Ravenous Hordes. I mean besides zombies, what's out there in 1/72 that would be good for this? Are there even any single or reduced models to use for this horde? Any ideas?
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I would definitely go for 1/72 (=20mm). For me it's the best of both worlds between 28mm and 15mm!
Also there have been numerous new releases, also fantasy stuff as Hobgoblin pointed out 8)
Special or unique units could also easily be printed in 1/72 scale (e.g. at https://www.speira.net )
Furthermore you could not only often use 28mm monsters in your army but also 15mm monsters. Only the middle scale (1/72) can poach in both of the other scales
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Great points all around, Hobgoblin. And you are 100% correct...I _could_ do a complete retinue with many single boxes...but the hobbyist in me is gonna wanna see Nomad Set 1 in a retinue with Dark Alliance Mummies and Anubis warriors. All led by a liche or something. Yeah, this is on me. ;)
I'm exactly the same - hence my warning as I survey sprue after sprue of unused (ahem, yet-to-be-used) 1/72 stuff! ;)
Regarding the 'Tolkien through New Line with a bit extra' you are also correct, but I'm not wanting to do New Line LotR, so my eye is on the more generic looking fantasy units...Nomad Set 1 over 2 for example. But as I mentioned I think doing crazy fantasy is part of the charm of Dragon Rampant, and I need to be ok with it.
Ah - gotcha. Yes, I prefer Nomad 1 (it's the only one I have - great figures, and the back racks on the others are a bit much); I don't much like the New Line films, and I really wish the warg riders were on wargs, not hyena-beasts! I'd say that the Dark Alliance orcs and goblins are much more 'generic fantasy' than New Line, though, despite the box art (the half-orcs are pure New Line, though I use them as both grey-skinned orcs and red-skinned D&D-style hobgoblins).
Have you seen the new-ish Caesar orcs (the dynamic ones, not the older goofy ones)? They're on the right of the picture below. I reckon they're one of the best 1/72 fantasy sets out there; really dynamic and characterful, and with an obvious chieftain and a couple of shaman/wizard types as well as some archers, some armoured guys and some out-and-out Bellicose Foot. A great thing about them is the plastic they're made from. It takes paint and superglue really well, which makes these guys easy to convert. As they're quite big, you can easily add weapons from historical 28mm kits.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-15JPpcBFuzM/Xz1dIt9VXaI/AAAAAAAABvQ/rZOcrL03t5Qc7RqecBKT4oyQL8bwmnWKgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1632/HotT%2Borcs.JPG)
I do like the call out to Reaper models for warbeasts...good idea! One unit I seem to struggle with are....Ravenous Hordes. I mean besides zombies, what's out there in 1/72 that would be good for this? Are there even any single or reduced models to use for this horde? Any ideas?
Goblins are the obvious answer - the Dark Alliance 'goblins' are unarmoured and poorly equipped, for the most part, unlike their 'orcs'. There are also loads of wretched-looking 15mm orc types that would work well - these guys (https://oldglory15s.com/Orc-Melee-Troops-FO01.htm), for example, who would give you two Ravenous Hordes for $12.50. They're big, chunky 15mm figures, so bang on for small goblins in 1/72.
It's hard to think of reduced-model options; pathetic ghosts might be one idea (a mix of figures painted pale and glowing?). But one way to go would be something like Hordes of the Things lurker elements. After all, Ravenous Hordes are rubbish in DR except in rough terrain and woods - where they become the equal of troops that lack the Ranger ability: Elite Riders, for example, whose Wild Charging they can exploit to lure into trouble. So one option would be to model your Ravenous Hordes as fairies or fauns or will-o-the-wisps or woodland sprites of some other sort - no threat out in the open but dangerous in dark places. Modestly sized giant spiders might be another example.
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I really have a hard time building multi-part 28mm plastics, so that would be my personal last choice. If I were budget limited, I’d rather build a really small project in metal than to drive myself crazy assembling plastics, but that’s definitely just me. lol
So, with respect to your original question, I would definitely go for the 1/72 project. In fact, I’ve mor-or-less already done this:
http://sharpbrush.blogspot.com/search/label/1%2F72%20scale%20plastic?updated-max=2020-09-19T16:11:00-04:00&max-results=20&start=7&by-date=false
My sons (at 31 and 28) are now out in the world and infrequently around for games, but both of them build 1/72 Hordes of the Things armies, most of which could reasonably be morphed into Dragon Rampant warbands. Since this was a few years back, we used more Caesar fantasy and historicals than anything else. Older son has been working recently on 1/72 historical Bronze Age DBA armies, so he’s been picking up some of the recent Dark Alliance stuff to give those armies a possible fantasy flex, but none of it has been painted yet.
As suggested above, I’ve got some Reaper Bones in my forces as various monsters, with the Young Fire Dragon and the Saprolings being favorites.
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Great blog - and your saprolings and Minifigs orcs look terrific! I've also acquired one of the Strelets Roman Transport sets to harvest adventurers and retainers: they're great for that job.
Jack Hooligan - there's lots of potential for reduced-model Ravenous Hordes here (https://ralparthalegacy.com/collections/fae) - especially if you go with the idea of 'lurkers'. Stick a handful of these in the woods, then have them tempt in those Elite Rider units - to their doom!
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I'd go with 20mm scale :). I'm exclusively wargaming in this scale and with the amount of new sets coming the variety is ever increasing. For monsters I'm primarily using reaper bones minis. If you want I can take some pics of them with 20mm minis. Some of the bones that work especially well with 1/72 minis are:
- dark young,
- mi-gos,
- eldritch demon,
- gravewailer,
- bat swarm (after hiding the tombstone),
- spider swarms,
- giant scorpions,
- wyverns,
- giant toads,
- sea hags,
- manticores,
- gryphons,
- chimeras,
- basilisks,
- giant worms,
- saprolings,
- giant beetles.
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I'd go with 28mm.
This scales offers far better customization options for your miniatures. Its also easier to paint as the details are larger, and when you use creatures or monsters they will look the business ;)
As for the Cons you mentioned, maybe try starting with less armies or have your players help you assemble the minis? From my observation a lot of people struggle with painting their armies so maybe they will be happy to help you build the model and let you paint it?
Anyways, whatever way you decide to go - good luck and enjoy! 8)
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I'd go with 20mm scale :). I'm exclusively wargaming in this scale and with the amount of new sets coming the variety is ever increasing. For monsters I'm primarily using reaper bones minis. If you want I can take some pics of them with 20mm minis. Some of the bones that work especially well with 1/72 minis are:
- dark young,
- mi-gos,
- eldritch demon,
- gravewailer,
- bat swarm (after hiding the tombstone),
- spider swarms,
- giant scorpions,
- wyverns,
- giant toads,
- sea hags,
- manticores,
- gryphons,
- chimeras,
- basilisks,
- giant worms,
- saprolings,
- giant beetles.
Hey M.P.
a photo for size comparison with 1/72 minis would be nice!
thanks
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Another option for Ravenous Hordes would be 28mm Reaper Bones kobolds. They do several varieties, but most would do fine in that role in 1/72.
Although most of the front rank here are old Ral Partha (and one Citadel) metals, the rest are Reaper Bones - of two different varieties. They're based on 20mm bases (though I'll be rebasing them on pennies at some point), but they'd be small enough next to 1/72 humans:
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BgXAXAwM1rU/WtzFsOsnxYI/AAAAAAAAAOo/2PKoanMeSFoqEHyun33KElrOdPL0kV2wACLcBGAs/s1600/Kobold%2Bclan-2.jpg)
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Good ideas.
I guess I was thinking dark alliance goblins and these reaper kobolds would be more light foot because they do have weapons and seem to be somewhat useful combatants. My understanding of Ravenous Hordes is that they’re pretty much just speed bumps. Maybe even mindless. But have lower level warriors be RH does give another level of foot options.
Thanks, all, for the recent comments. These lists of reaper creatures are great!
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The Reaper Bones kobolds are significantly smaller than the Dark Alliance goblins and orcs, so they're visually already in speed-bump territory, I think (see below). You could also use 15mm lizardmen as kobolds (as here):
(https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77384.0;attach=139358;image)
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I'm exactly the same - hence my warning as I survey sprue after sprue of unused (ahem, yet-to-be-used) 1/72 stuff! ;)
I mean, I can appreciate that these Dark Alliance boxes have ~40 or so figs, but like i really just want one sprue of Cimmerians Set 2 for a proper unit of Chaos Warrior-types. i don't need 40! ha. Oh well, still. 10 or so models for $10 isn't bad, so I shouldn't complain.
I'm going to have lots of leftovers. Maybe for conversions?
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I'm going to have lots of leftovers. Maybe for conversions?
Or based for mass-battle games!
Have you ever played Hordes of the Things? For my money, it's the best fantasy wargame ever made (and it only needs half a dinner table to play). But its unit sizes are used across a whole swathe of games, so if you base up your spares on 60mm frontages, you've got an extremely versatile set of mass-battle armies. Make those multi-bases match your individually based ones, and you've got a great way of speeding up Dragon Rampant, making the 'wall of shields' manoeuvre clearer and reducing the 'footprint' further to give you more space.
The 25/28mm basing size for HotT and other games (60mm frontage) can look quite cramped with modern 28s. But it's perfect for 1/72s. And your spare Cimmerians would give you the core of a full army.
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Agreed re Hott it really is a great game and building the armies becomes quite addictive.
I have wondered about a sprue exchange.
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I played HOTT for years and had fun. But the armies are just too vanilla for our group. Nobody locally plays any longer. Dragon Rampant and One Page Rules Fantasy has taken up that void for the most part. I have been buying 1/72 fantasy that fit with my older Ral Partha figs. The Centaurs will go well with my Partha Greeks that I may be using for Partha's Chaos Wars at Cincycon. There is a great seller on Ebay for Dark Alliance. $8.99 a pack. I have ordered from them multiple times. Great prices and fast shipping!
https://www.ebay.com/str/scottsmodelworkshop/Dark-Alliance-Figures/_i.html?_storecat=8037817012
Have fun with your new armies!
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Hey M.P.
a photo for size comparison with 1/72 minis would be nice!
thanks
I second this! Especially the first three the dark young, mi-gos, and eldritch demon.
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A number of years ago I went though a similar thing, What scale for fantasy! I live in a small town andI probably I can’t find player’s other than my children. Your analyses and may of the suggestions is all good. But what I went with is 15mm, mostly because of how much I liked Demonworld miniatures. In 15mm I think there is problably a lot more options to choose from miniature then 20mm. For me, when looking at 20mm ( not sure exactly what 20mm is, other than 1:72) there wasn’t quite enough options.
I:72 has a lot to like though, as to me, its kind of a sweet spot as far as sizes go. Not so big, that it takes to much room on the table, but not so small that you cant see it. The foot print of 1:72 is not that much bigger, then 15mm depending on how you base things, ( I single base my 15mm on primarily 5?8” washers, with things like goblins on smaller and some bigger monsters on bigger washers.)
1:72 is probably the cheapest route you could go, probably even cheaper than 15mm. Also, since much of 1”72 is made of harder plastics, if other people are using your painted armies, likely less damage will be done to your miniatures by carelessness of others. 15mm has lots of bendy metal pikes and spears and such.
If I were able to wave a magic wand and make all of my miniatures, and everyone elses fantasy miniatures into one size, and eliminate all other sizes or scale for any other fantasy wargaming, roleplaying purpose, I would make them 1:72 just for the usefulness of the size, not to big, not to small, cant paint detail, but could also ignore some detail when painting at arms length nobody would notice. However , the limitations of what is available currently and likely to become available put me off from this size, and may be a reason for you to consider not using it. If you get into resin printing, 1:72 would probably be a great scale to 3d print for, as you could scale things designed for 10mm (which 3d designers are starting to design for as warmaster miniatures) and you could also scale down 28mm miniatures and they would work without much worry, and be much cheaper to print for at the same time. The visual appeal that 1:72 can present is amazing, you can see more on them, but they are not so big and space hogs as 28mm, and faster to paint also, small enough you can make large mass armies, but not so small you cant see them!
But… since few people have the 20mm/1:72 as armies, ( and the same thing going with the 15mm armies) if cost and painting time isn’t an issue, I would recommend you go with 28mm just because of the amount of 28mm stuff that exists. Its generally more expensive but the sky is the limit, and if you want other people to show up with their own stuff someday, 28mm is what most people will likely “show up with”
Now with 3d printing… and if you don’t have one already, someday you are likely to… any of the scales are viable
Oh and just so you know… there is a lot of 15mm stuff that is actually 18mm, and I personally like the 18mm stuff more than the 15mm stuff, just because there is better detail on most of it, and I can even dot the eyes and I can see the dotted eyes, if I hold it 16” from my nose.
I like my 15mm but like everything, there is no perfect answer, and my likes may differ from yours, or the the people you play with.
Oh and I am to heavily invested in 15mm time and money wise to want to change, but like I said, if I had a magic wand and I could transform everything, from all scales into 1 it would be the 1:72. ( which I still can't figure out why people call it 20mm as they also call lot of 25mm stuff as 1:72, which makes a 6’ man to be a 1 inch tall miniature, but maybe 25mm is to the eyes, and then the whole scale creep thing begins all over again.
Ideally 1:72 practically 28mm and what I have, which I like a lot- 15 (18mm for most).
One thing to remember though.. If you buy it, and you paint it... which ones do YOU like the MOST. Let them play with what you provide, and provide what YOU like!
One more thing. Consider single basing and movement trays, so you can get the most out of your miniatures, by doing such, you can use them for any game system, including RPGs.
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I would generally agree with Albus’s comment. I would add, though, that it would make sense to have some idea of how big you want your project to be (based on things like table size, type of game you want to play, amount of flexibility within armies/warbands, and number of different forces you’re wanting to create).
While there is certainly a vast array of 28s out there, it may be that you find that your project is within the range of things you could handle in 1/72. It doesn’t much matter whether you fill a cup from your canteen or from Lake Superior, if you just need the cup…
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I second this! Especially the first three the dark young, mi-gos, and eldritch demon.
I'll take some pics today :).
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Sorry for low quality of the pics.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zfd0XrLr/210709791-348935330164464-7340717534823828928-n.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1zJRQDf/212422116-518503169485543-8200845707822528227-n.jpg)
(https://postimg.cc/1V9wRXx2)
(https://postimg.cc/XGK90FP9)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3r0n7zYs/213827482-857061928528455-8859161850695792613-n.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/X7Mxvxvp/215045582-404974717606211-1747649558391348031-n.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3Jg10py9/216833639-615028326143370-4863076529127927715-n.jpg)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/213086873_2035363876612198_1927587946804766634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=Ov2T2JEAqTUAX_ZkKho&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=783f0c12511d3c4a203152ad11ca2446&oe=60F78561)
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This works for me! Thank you!
Is that 1/72 fingered from the Musketeers Redbox line?
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Oh, what is the starfish worm thing in the third photo?
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This works for me! Thank you!
Is that 1/72 fingered from the Musketeers Redbox line?
On the first picture yes - on the others a converted swedish musketeer from Mars.
Oh, what is the starfish worm thing in the third photo?
It's Chthon.
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I know Dark Alliance has that Mounted Modern Amazon set, but are there other good fantasy mounts for 1:72? maybe something from the Reaper line? I'm thinking like griffons/hippogriffs, dragons, wyverns, etc
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I'd look at Ral Partha stuff (new or second hand; their griffons and whatnot are quite slender and should fit 1/72 riders). Also, have a look at the Wizzkids/Nolzur's range - those beasties are quite delicate and work better in 1/72 than normal 28mm, I think. You might well find something there that does the job. Also, the Wizzkids orcs make great ogres in 1/72; the proportions match really well.
One more thing: you were talking about the Dark Alliance nomads. But have you looked at the HaT El Cid range for similar figures in 1/72? I picked some up the other day, and they're great. Individually, they're perhaps not quite as nice as the Dark Alliance ones, but they're still pretty good. And they have a lot of advantages too. There are more poses. They're a lot cheaper (more so in the US, perhaps, as that's where they come from). And they're probably better for putting together a DR army. Also, they're almost entirely flash/mouldline free (best I've seen in 1/72), and the HaT plastic is really good: it takes superglue really well, for one thing.
I got a box of 96 infantry (http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1436) for under a tenner, and that would give you light missiles, heavy missiles (if you don't mind four archers making numbers in up your crossbow unit), scouts (slingers), heavy foot and light foot - and some elite foot too. I also got the Moorish cavalry sampler (http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2710) for six quid - which yields complete units of heavy riders and light riders, plus some spares.
There are also the Almoravid infantry (http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1451) and Spanish infantry (http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1440) boxes, plus various 12-strong cavalry boxes and command sets for each. The Spanish infantry strike me as great 'generic fantasy' soldiers.
Although the DA nomads are brilliant figures, there can be a fair bit more hassle cleaning them up and basing them. I've painted one base of mine, but I've already got several bases of the HaT ones underway, and it's a much smoother experience.
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I know Dark Alliance has that Mounted Modern Amazon set, but are there other good fantasy mounts for 1:72? maybe something from the Reaper line? I'm thinking like griffons/hippogriffs, dragons, wyverns, etc
(https://i.postimg.cc/Ls4Gz75N/212573309-1106255656566177-5818060069390896906-n.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fwZszqz3/213086873-2035363876612198-1927587946804766634-n-1.jpg)
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Thanks again for coming with the knowledge, @hobgoblin.
@M.P. that's a Reaper griffon on the right in the top photo? Wow, it, the chimera, and that wyvern look perfect!
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Some more stuff, that works good in 1/72 scale (=20mm):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153588246903 (those guys are 1/72)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154080051913 (same)
https://www.alternative-armies.com/products/hot28-manticore (works as mount for 1/72)
http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/ral-partha-fantasy-c-37/heroes-and-horrors-c-37_38/01041-wraiths-3-p-3415.html (25mm scale wraiths fit good enough into 1/72 scale)
https://www.reapermini.com/miniatures/minotaur/latest/77680 (Reaper Bones Minitaurs)
https://www.alternative-armies.com/products/552-savage-ape (could be altered easily into more evil looking creatures)
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Thanks again for coming with the knowledge, @hobgoblin.
@M.P. that's a Reaper griffon on the right in the top photo? Wow, it, the chimera, and that wyvern look perfect!
Yes it is :).
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ah and by the way: all Reaper Bones Familiars fit very well into 1/72 scale! 8)
Check them out: https://www.reapermini.com/miniatures/familiars
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I know Dark Alliance has that Mounted Modern Amazon set, but are there other good fantasy mounts for 1:72? maybe something from the Reaper line? I'm thinking like griffons/hippogriffs, dragons, wyverns, etc
Just to back up my point on the suitability of Ral Partha 25mm mounts for 1/72, here's a Dark Alliance warg rider on a Ral Partha lizard-thing:
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Those lizard things are definitely unimpressively small with the larger figures; looks good with the plastic rider!
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I bought some irregular 20mm bison for my fantasy lot. Will dig them out when I get home.
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I know Dark Alliance has that Mounted Modern Amazon set, but are there other good fantasy mounts for 1:72? maybe something from the Reaper line? I'm thinking like griffons/hippogriffs, dragons, wyverns, etc
Have a look at the beasties from Battle Valor. (http://www.battlevalorgames.com/animals.aspx) The wolves that the orc wolfriders are on are a great size for 1/72 (as are the orcs: squat and broad with bit heads and large hands - and a bit shorter than 1/72 humans - just perfect for 1/72 Uruk-hai).
The orc wolves have integral rider legs, but I think the other wolves in the link the same size (or bigger). And there are lots of other interesting mounts on those two pages.
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those guys also work as 1/72 mounts:
http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/animals-and-prehistoric-c-59/01704-hyaenodon-p-4149.html
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those guys also work as 1/72 mounts:
http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/animals-and-prehistoric-c-59/01704-hyaenodon-p-4149.html
Good call! The rest in that range (http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/animals-and-prehistoric-c-59/) look like good options too. Giant wolverines or terror birds, anyone?
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After months of clearing out Blood Bowl and Post Apocalyptic backlog, the fantasy project in 1:72 has begun.
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Tremendous work! They look suitably spectral!
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Nice work - glad you went with 20mm.
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Thanks, both!
It’s been a more relaxed, fun scale to paint in. I did a large Dragon Rampant force and terrain in only two days. Well, the ghost theme also made it easy. Hehehe.
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Great ghostly effects and all that painted up in just two days. Wow!
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really nice, good choice!
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one of the most awesome Fantasy manufacturer in 20mm (1/72) is rumored to return: :o
"New Caesar?
Rumours have been flying around just recently about the return of Caesar to the hobby, with some new production. Today we learn from one of our Chinese visitors that they are advertising their first new set as 'Three Kingdoms (Shu Kingdom Set 1)', which if confirmed would be a great new addition to the range. The Three Kingdoms period followed the end of the Han dynasty in 220 CE. We understand the set will contain 33 figures, but we should point out that images we have seen of the figures only show them painted, so we will attempt to get more details on exactly what the set will contain and pass them on when we hear more."
(Source: http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/news.aspx )
In the past they brought us beautiful fantasy sets like the lizard men, rat man, zombies etc:
https://72-multiverse.blogspot.com/2015/01/new-caesar-fantasy-sets.html
Hopefully these old sets see a rerelease or they even produce new sets
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Interesting! I have noticed that various Caesar sets (including the rat men, the lizardmen and the elves) seem to have been back in production - or at least available - recently. I'd love to get hold of the original undead set and the adventurers.
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Interesting! I have noticed that various Caesar sets (including the rat men, the lizardmen and the elves) seem to have been back in production - or at least available - recently. I'd love to get hold of the original undead set and the adventurers.
yeah, that set of adventurers and the skeletons from the undead set would be high on my list as well.