Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: clibinarium on July 08, 2021, 02:08:32 PM
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I am trying to ease myself back into the painting of figures; I haven't lifted a paintbrush for about 10 years after burning out at professional painting. I've decided that I am going to go with oils as they seem like a more interesting approach than acrylics, and new to me at least.
Anyway, I am having a go with white/grey priming (I habitually used black in the past). I got myself some Vallejo grey surface primer. I guess it's for airbrushes (that's currently outside my budget), but you can paint it on. I was surprised that it took a couple of coats, and a fair bit of touching up as well. Additionally, it sometimes rubbed off in handling which causes me some concern. I have some gesso on the way, but I hear it can rub away too- I'll be a painting with oils, which involves a fair amount of wiping off paint with cotton buds, so I am afraid of wiping away the gesso primer too. I guess this isn't surprising as gesso is not really intended for minis, though I see a lot of people swear by it.
Do I need to give in and get enamel spray cans- I wanted to avoid this don't really have a good space to do this in.
Any opinions on the best way forward?
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If all of the washing and prep work has been done, then it probably comes down to what you are painting on. I've found that some resins resist priming no matter how many times I wash them. For the really stubborn cases, I think Gesso works as well as any brush-on primer out there. I have both clear and black that work well, and sometimes mix them with a bit of Vallejo or Army Painter primer to improve flow.
When I've had issues with Gesso rubbing off it is primarily on something like a penny base. The metal in a penny is notorious for not bonding well with paints, so I take no offense to it. I actually find that it helps to prime all the way under the penny and essentially encapsulate it at that point.
Spray primers may work better. I don't usually spray prime because the weather here allows for the right conditions (outdoors) about 2-3 weeks out of the year. Otherwise, it is too hot/cold/wet and overall just a hassle. Still, if you have something really stubborn maybe it is the best option. I wouldn't think most metal or plastic figures would give many problems.
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Do I need to give in and get enamel spray cans- I wanted to avoid this don't really have a good space to do this in. Any opinions on the best way forward?
If you plan to paint metal figures worry not. There's an excellent brush on primer for metals available from B&Q in the UK. Resistant to rubbing off if left to dry properly (24 hrs or so) - https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2016/06/painting-tips-8primer-update.html
On gesso you should bear in mind it is designed to coat canvas. The fact it is useable (at all) on lead, tin, brass & copper is a minor miracle (see comments on pennies above). These metals have very smooth surfaces meaning standard primers (rattle cans, car primer etc) struggle to grip. Any paint or primer will stick at first but in the long term the edges will rub if the model is handled regularly.
The product above has added ingredients to ensure grip (manufacturer confirmed). I don't think gesso does. If you are painting plastics or resin you may get away with using it. I have no long term experience with gesso as I use the above primer on everything.
Final point don't expect a varnish to compensate for a poor bond between the model and the primer because it won't. When people say the varnish has rubbed of and bare metal is showing it's the primer that's failed not the varnish.
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Gesso is not great as a primer; but I find artist’s acrylic paint brushed on works very well for both metal and plastic.
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I never mastered gesso - I think I never put it on thick enough...
As for spray cans, I once did a set of models in a hotel by hanging out of the window but I cannot really recommend that. Now it's a quick dash outdoors and leave them to dry in the under stairs cupboard. If possible I leave them to 'off-gas' for five minutes before bringing them in.
High humidity, cold or wind have not been a real problem - humidity has never bothered me, cold just needs the cans keeping warm first and wind is sorted by not eating beans using a box to spray into. I do avoid snow and rain though as that leaves spots on the paint.
My 'go to' undercoat is the Halfords car range - not cheap but they have been rock solid for years. I do have a cheap 'no name' brand from Boyes that I use for buildings and reasonably confident these would be fine for figures but I've still the Halfords tins handy.
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I am a heretic in many regards to priming etc; however I always wash my miniatures in warm soapy water before priming,I use the Vallejo primer you mention and I use oils and enamels during my painting,so you shouldn’t have too many troubles. I would let the primer dry for at least 24 hours,and honestly the bit you miss(the nooks and crannies) are the last places paint is going to come adrift :)
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I only use brush-on primers.
I have used Gesso with mixed results.
I have used Vallejo Surface Primer with mixed results.
My main primer is HUMBROL Enamel paint No 33 MATT.
If you want to prime in white or grey I'm sure they would work as well.
I've been using Humbrol for years. Kevin Dallimore and Steve Dean used to use this, probably they still do. (That's how I discovered it.)
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I have used paint on primer in the past but have had mixed results. I think that was down to the primer thirty years ago.
Gesso is my secondary primer. It can rub off if it is not put on well but what you want to do is completely coat the model from all sides in several thin coats. I will also let it dry for a good two days so it has time to shrink into place.
My go to is auto spray primer from a rattle can. I am heretic in this respect but I am happy with the results.
Main thing to be sure of is to properly prepare the surface by cleaning it well. One other thing that helps with surfaces that tend to chip is to put a thin glaze of superglue over the surface. It adherers better than primer and gives the primer something else to stick on.
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Like Orctrader I only brush on primer as I found using a spray can invariably needed touching up in the deeper recesses. And I also use Enamels Humbrol and or Revell thinned to a watery consistency so it'll run into the forementioned nooks and crannies but I still leave it to dry at least over night. What I like is the Enamel even heavily thinned sticks like the proverbial to a blanket and provides a good key for the Acrylics that I colour in with. Hope that helps
JB
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Gesso is not great as a primer; but I find artist’s acrylic paint brushed on works very well for both metal and plastic.
I disagree, I absolutely love gesso as a primer. Metal, plastic, resin, whatever Bones is. It works great for all of them.
I brush it on, I don't know if others do.
I have black, white, and grey, and I really like them all.
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I've used gesso for years on metal, plastic & resin miniatures, no problems at all.
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Late reply, but I brush-prime with colored air-brush primers, followed by a colored wash. For advanced tabletop, that's a head start on basecoating and underpainting. Brush-on primers are usually sold in larger bottles than hobby paints, so are less expensive per ounce, although I still highlight and whatnot with hobby paints. They also often have caps, which, since I'm lazy (: I find easier to use than a palette. I paint generic fantasy miniatures, so use brown the most, for those grubby monsters and peasants.
When I used gesso, results were pretty bad, with the surface having tiny bumps and pockmarks, probably from the chalk and such. However, for terrain, gesso worked fine, since a rougher surface would be suitable for something made of stone or wood. Also, I found gesso easier to strip. I guess if I ever made handmade terrain that couldn't take spray cans (eg. styrofoam), I'd end up using gesso...