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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Andy in Germany on August 22, 2021, 07:47:23 AM
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Hello again. my tabletop model making has stalled a bit lately, partly because of work and other commitments, but also because although I seem to manage things like buildings and vehicles, I can't get the hang of figure painting, especially of faces.
After the last attempt I cleaned this figure as best I could and re primed it.
Where do I start from here?
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/2021_08_22_betsy_miller_01-jpg.605415/)
Thoughts and suggestions welcome (or links to tutorials and YouTube videos welcome, as I've looked but can't really find anything useful)
Many thanks...
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Andy,
I always start with the skin, face, hands whatever and work out from there.
But I think you will find everyone is different. Just make a start somewhere, it will all work out ok.
Just shade the face with a little flesh/brown ink and keep it simple. I used to do eyes and everything now I generally don`t bother, except for character models.
Good luck
Glen
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I always try and paint as if I was getting dressed, e.g. start with the shirt/jumper under her top, then the jacket, the gun, and then the hands (due to the hands being above the gun if that makes sense).
I know how you feel about being able to paint. I always find when I am looking at buying miniatures, I frequently tell myself 'I love that mini but I could never paint it to a great standard. I will wait till I am a better painter'. The issue is the only way I am going to be a great painter is if I buy the damn figures and practice! So slap some paint on her and go!
I'd also say part of it is learning when to leave a figure alone, if you've stopped enjoying painting the figure and it's stopped being fun, then it's probably best to move on to something else, get your mojo back then start again with it. I always think you can tell when someone has enjoyed painting something and when someone hasn't. I know it shows in my work.
Anyway, I hope this ramble helps,
DMM
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Andy,
I always start with the skin, face, hands whatever and work out from there.
But I think you will find everyone is different. Just make a start somewhere, it will all work out ok.
Just shade the face with a little flesh/brown ink and keep it simple. I used to do eyes and everything now I generally don`t bother, except for character models.
Good luck
Glen
You may be right about the eyes. This is my second attempt with this figure at least, possibly the third, and it was the face that defeated me every time.
Trouble is, she's a figure for a Pulp league and a leader, no less, so she's every bit a "character" figure...
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Best approach I’ve also found is inside out, so milky is spot on. Paint as you would dress. That gives you the ability to tidy up over painting as you go. You also minimise the number of “tidy” lines you have to paint. As to faces, two coats of basic flesh tone to get a solid covering. Follow that by highlighting with a lighter flesg tone in nose, forehead, top lip, top of cheekbones, ears, point of chin, and jaw line. Let that dry then use a smash of Vallejo game flesh wash and watch her come to life…..you can then refine the highlights a little if needed, and paint in any mouth or eye detail you want. When painting eyes, just use ivory, and cut it back to size with a darkish brown. The pupils can be added with a vertical dark grey line, again cutting back over painting with the darkish brown. It really is easier than you think…..
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I’ve found the Kev Dalimore tutorials for painting IHMN figures very useful - I think they are on the North Star site - in following these I think I’ve done some of my best painting. Obviously this figure won’t be in them guides, but there will certainly be similar figures.
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Lots of good advice, not least to go ahead & paint.
It is not that I get better at painting, just that I get
more experienced at hiding my mistakes & weaknesses.
Block in some colours then, when dry, coat with some
Army Shade, or similar. Then a few 'highlights' using
the same colour you blocked in with. When finished, look
at the model while holding it at arms length. That is the
kind of distance it will be seen from most of the time.
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I always paint metals first (base coat at least) as metallics are more likely to mess up other colours and be awkward to fix than vice versa. I tend to do all the base colours, then apply a wash, then highlight from there (original colour and one or two highlights in lighter tones). It depends on the figure, but I aim to use as few washes as possible - the ideal being one coat of Agrax Earthshade or equivalent over the lot - but that's not an option for many human skin tones or for cleaner or brighter clothes. It might do for quite a lot or all of this figure's clothing and equipment, though.
For eyes, I'd wash the whole recess in dark blue or purple (an old tip from Aly Morrison) and then paint in the eye in an off-white (NOT pure white) and then add the pupil/iris - remembering that the dark bid takes up quite a lot of the eye.
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You may be right about the eyes. This is my second attempt with this figure at least, possibly the third, and it was the face that defeated me every time.
Trouble is, she's a figure for a Pulp league and a leader, no less, so she's every bit a "character" figure...
Honestly at 3 feet/1 metre who is going to know? I very seldom bother at all these days with the eyes and I must admit that I use a mix of mix of citadel contrast and army painter inks these days with very little traditional "proper" painting going on.
The overall effect can be controlled by the undercoat or basecoat colour, I tend to ink on top of medium grey as this prevents things being too bright, if i want bright I use a white coat under that bit first. Tone down and dirtying can be acheved with the army painter tones, dark, soft and strong respectively or as many on here use aggarax earthshade.
Quick and easy and not as much fuss ;) :D
Good luck
Glen
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I always try and paint as if I was getting dressed, e.g. start with the shirt/jumper under her top, then the jacket, the gun, and then the hands (due to the hands being above the gun if that makes sense).
Best approach I’ve also found is inside out, so milky is spot on. Paint as you would dress. That gives you the ability to tidy up over painting as you go. You also minimise the number of “tidy” lines you have to paint.
This makes sense: one of the problems with my last attempt was a "gap" I couldn't get rid of around the hairline because I left the face until last, in fact that was the final problem that ended with poor Betsy being dumped in a pot of Alcohol and scrubbed with my old toothbrush... Starting with face and working "out" would have avoided that...
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Lots of good advice, not least to go ahead & paint.
It is not that I get better at painting, just that I get
more experienced at hiding my mistakes & weaknesses.
Block in some colours then, when dry, coat with some
Army Shade, or similar. Then a few 'highlights' using
the same colour you blocked in with. When finished, look
at the model while holding it at arms length. That is the
kind of distance it will be seen from most of the time.
Thanks. I'm able to hide my mistakes on things like houses and vehicles but I'm finding it harder on the tiny area available on a figure...
What's an "Army shade"?
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Honestly at 3 feet/1 metre who is going to know?
I think my problem is that I'd know, and I'm a tad too perfectionist... Maybe learning to let things slide is also important.
The overall effect can be controlled by the undercoat or basecoat colour, I tend to ink on top of medium grey as this prevents things being too bright, if i want bright I use a white coat under that bit first.
So before painting the end colour, darken on the primer above for shadows and white for highlights, then block in colour?
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What's an "Army shade"?
A translucent 'stain' that will put on most of the
shadows for you. If I am doing more than a few
figures, I use coloured wood varnish instead. It
does pretty much the same job & is a LOT cheaper.
Light Oak = a light, subtle shading. e.g. over white Indian Mutiny cloth.
Dark Oak = much darker, e.g. over Viking chain mail
Mahogany = a red/brown. e.g. over different undercoats for horses.
The Army Shade does come in small dropper type bottles if
you just want to experiment with it. For most of my figures I use
it over the flesh, it sinks into eye sockets etc. Then when it is dry
I highlight (forehead, nose, cheeks & chin) that does me for faces.
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Tried army painter shades and Vallejo flesh wash. This wins hands down for faces….
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I think my problem is that I'd know, and I'm a tad too perfectionist... Maybe learning to let things slide is also important.
So before painting the end colour, darken on the primer above for shadows and white for highlights, then block in colour?
Yup, you can also highlight on the upraised parts to increase the contrast effect.
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I usually paint bottom to top: boots, pants, etc. But if you’re having trouble with the face, paint the face and hair first. If you don’t like it, strip and try again. Once you’re happy with the face you can work your way down.
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Tried army painter shades and Vallejo flesh wash. This wins hands down for faces….
Out of interest, what is the difference between a "wash" and watered down paint, which is what I've used on models like this:
(https://korschtal.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/big_diesel_95.jpg?w=500)
I have had trouble with surface tension, is that part of the equation?
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I usually paint bottom to top: boots, pants, etc. But if you’re having trouble with the face, paint the face and hair first. If you don’t like it, strip and try again. Once you’re happy with the face you can work your way down.
Good point, that may hold off the perfectionism a bit.
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Hi Andy
A wash is exactly that, you wash the diluted paint on in what is best described as a controlled flood. It then flows into the crevices generating shadows.
The difference between a wash and watered down paint is , as you say, surface tension. The wash has flow aid included into the formula to reduce this. There are other differences, such as more binder without pigment because over diluted paint can break down and not adhere properly, but the biggest difference is flow aid. You can make your own wash, but this stuff is just easier. It’s always the right consistency and works very well.
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Out of interest, what is the difference between a "wash" and watered down paint, which is what I've used on models like this:
I have had trouble with surface tension, is that part of the equation?
There are plenty of resources for making your own washes. Here's a couple:
https://azazelx.com/2018/06/13/lester-bursleys-wash-recipe-and-tutorial-repost/
https://eclecticgamer.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/creating-washes-for-miniature-painting/
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Thanks. I'll keep a hold of all the links for later use.
I've ordered some very small bottles of flesh and black washes and I'll see how they work on this figure and a couple of other items, then see about making some of my own if I can get the hang of using them...
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The above advice is spot on, don't be scared to use the so called "cheating techniques" washes, contrast paints and dry brushing. It'll get figures on the table quickly and give you more time to try the more advanced methods,then it's just practice practice practice. For eyes I use an ultra fine black pen to dot the pupils (if it's a character I might put a dot of field blue on first) then with a fine brush put a tiny ivory dot either side.
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Thanks for the suggestions. I've bought two small wash bottles, the "Flesh tones" above and a black one, and I'll see how they work, then try and figure out how to get ingredients locally to make my own if all goes to plan. currently I'm gradually repainting the figure above to try and improve my quality... I'll post pictures if/when I actually achieve something...
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From the title of the thread, I almost wanted to reply "primer" lol
I would say that Donkeymilkman's approach (start with the shirt/jumper under her top, then the jacket, the gun, and then the hands) is pretty similar to how I deal with it. The one thing I always do first is I will paint the base in whatever main color I would be using when I really do the base after the figure is painted; its mostly so I can see how the colors on the figure are interacting with the base color to help me figure if I need to shift my base coloring strategy for this particular figure.
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Okay, version 2.0 is developing.
I'm not delighted with it in photo or reality but it's an improvement...
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/betsy_miller_07-jpg.607156/)
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/betsy_miller_08-jpg.607157/)
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/betsy_miller_09-jpg.607158/)
The clothes seem to have gone a bit better than the face. Will keep practicing...
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Looks ok to me and its probably even better in real life and from 3 feet away.
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I would say that Donkeymilkman's approach (start with the shirt/jumper under her top, then the jacket, the gun, and then the hands) is pretty similar to how I deal with it. The one thing I always do... paint the base in whatever main color I would be using when I really do the base ... to help me figure if I need to shift my base coloring strategy for this particular figure.
Good point, will do that next time. It'll be interesting to see what that looks like...
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Looks pretty good to me. Denims on that look excellent. Face is OK as well, It looks like some black wash has got on to the face a little, which has dulled the overall effect. Perhaps re-instating the highlights on the nose, cheeks, forehead and point of chin will bring a little more light to it.