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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: beefcake on September 05, 2021, 11:56:54 PM
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I just bought (not arrived) one of those miniairbrushes with the compressor attached to the brush and had some questions.
I don't particularly want to go out and buy thousands of dollars of new paints, is it possible to use existing paints straight or should they be thinned?
If they need thinning is there something special to use or will water do (looks forpained faces saying "NO!")
Cheers
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Always thin your paint. I use Vallejo Air and even thin that as well. I use Tamiya thinners but any thinner would be suitable.
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I generally use airbrush paints (Vallejo Air, Badger, etc) and use thinner rather than water. I have sprayed washes and inks from various lines but the few times I have used regular GW etc paints it didn't work out well. The regular gw paint was a bit old though, maybe others have had better experiences.
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Okay so it's arrived. I bought Tamiya thinner as it was the cheapest (and good to have the quick review of it there model warrior)
My next question shows really how basic my understanding is of airbrushes. I think it is so basic and probably just accepted as standard that I'm afraid to ask and seem stupid but sometimes to learn you have to ask these questions.
Anyway, when I turn on my airbrush the air constantly flows out the front? Is this the way it is meant to work? paint only comes when I pull back on the lever but I guess I always had the impression that air only flowed when the lever was pulled.
Thanks and I only ask as I think the answer may be too simple even for beginner tutorials on airbrushes
Also, how much do you usually thin the paint. I've seen 20% thinner, 50%, 25% with regular paints not airbrush specific paints. Thanks :)
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Sorry to be the bearer of ill will; the answer to your question,no air should come through till you depress the trigger,draw back to release the paint(at the same time to get paint flow).
Don’t use Tamiya thinner with paints such as Vallejo,it clags up ,I would use isopropyl.
And to thin; start at 30/70 thinner/ paint and go from there.
Hope that helps :)
G.
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It sounds like a single action airbrush. There are single and doble action brushes. The single action ones release air and paint by pulling the trigger back the double action brushes release air when pushing the trigger down and release paint by pulling the trigger back. Normally there should be no airflow when you leave the trigger alone on both types. If air is released without pulling/pushing the trigger the needle doesnt fit into the gun properly. Either due to cloging or because the needle is not strait or ill fitting.
Hope that helps
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Cool. Thanks. Maybe I just need to sort the needle out. I've pulled it apart after a quick first test so I'll see what I can do. Thanks all. Maybe not such a silly question after all. :)
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Looks like the thread of the nozzle was broken. I do have another cheap airbrush which I bought a long time ago but never had a compressor. Hopefully the attachment might work for it as well so I can use it instead.
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The correct way to use an airbrush (any airbrush) is as follows….
Air on….then Paint on, then paint off, then air off.
Air should always be flowing when the paint flow is started, and should still be on when the paint flow is stopped. I don’t know anything about your airbrush, but It sounds like your brush is set up to do this, albeit by having a continuos air flow when in use. In effect, as long as you can stop and start the paint while the air is flowing, it should work. As to paint flow, does the paint trigger control the amount of paint or not? If it does, you are home and dry, just control flow with the trigger, using the amount of paint you need for each spray job. If not, you will need to test spray and set up the paint flow as needed before using it on the model.
As to paint thinning, well there is no hard and fast rule here…..regarding Vallejo, I would use the model or game air ranges as a starter. When using them I personally dilute by about a third using Vallejo airbrush thinner and add a drop or two of Vallejo flow improver to the mix to reduce tip drying and blocking. This can vary with the paint colour, job in hand, ambient humidity, phase of the moon etc…..it is unfortunately one of those skills you can only learn with practice….and what worked before may not necessarily work the next time without a little tweaking…..
Don’t mix Vallejo paint and Tamiya thinners, by the way, it turns the paint into cottage cheese and bungs up the airbrush…..necessitating a complete strip and clean. It is usually best to stick with the paint manufactures own additives, at least while you are learning, and not to cross mix brands until you have a bit of experience.
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Thanks, yes the trigger did control the flow of paint (well I tested first with water through it) which stopped when the trigger was not depressed. The air was still coming out the front at all times while the compressor was on.
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Does the needle go back and forwards with the trigger movement? With the trigger off the needle should block the airflow. If not you need to tighten the thingummy which is internal and behind the trigger.
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I did an introductory airbrush course a few years back and the advice I was give (and have followed since) was:
- Use the manufacturer's own thinner where possible - I use Vallejo Airbrush thinner for Vallejo Paints, Tamiya for Tamiya etc. I do find that the Vallejo thinners work well with most paints.
Thin the paint to the consistency of skimmed milk
and , as 2010sunburst has already said, Air on….then Paint on, then paint off, then air off.
Always start the air before you put the brush over the model - this avoids spatters due to residual paint on the needle being blown onto the model
There are lots of videos on Youtube for airbrushing techniques, it would be worth checking a few out.
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Hi Beefy. Any chance you could post a picture of the AB, or a link to its web site? It would make troubleshooting a lot easier for us :D.
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Here it is. Yep, cheapy from Aliexpress
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000890785065.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5e9a4c4dtyWOAG
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Sorry to be the bearer of ill will; the answer to your question,no air should come through till you depress the trigger,draw back to release the paint(at the same time to get paint flow).
Don’t use Tamiya thinner with paints such as Vallejo,it clags up ,I would use isopropyl.
And to thin; start at 30/70 thinner/ paint and go from there.
Hope that helps :)
G.
Never had a problem with Vallejo paints clagging up with Tamiya thinner.
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Never had a problem with Vallejo paints clagging up with Tamiya thinner.
Back when I was switching from enamels and learning to use acrylics I tried thinning vallejo with tamiya thinner. The result was strands of string that were completely unusable. This was brush, rather than airbrush, but there was definitely a serious chemical reaction taking place.
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Anyway, when I turn on my airbrush the air constantly flows out the front? Is this the way it is meant to work? paint only comes when I pull back on the lever but I guess I always had the impression that air only flowed when the lever was pulled.
Thanks and I only ask as I think the answer may be too simple even for beginner tutorials on airbrushes
Also, how much do you usually thin the paint. I've seen 20% thinner, 50%, 25% with regular paints not airbrush specific paints. Thanks :)
I bought one very similar to the one in your link and it had an extra adapter to make it a double action - push finger control down to release air and pull finger control back to release paint.
When the pen is screwed direct to the compressor base it is single action and adding the little chromed adaptor piece between the pen and the base compressor turns it into a dual action.
I'm actually rather pleased with mine for priming and base coating and have not tried anything clever like layering up a bigger model yet.
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Never had a problem with Vallejo paints clagging up with Tamiya thinner.
Intriguing,very lucky; or the chemical makeup is different to the thinner supplied to Oz. Tamiya paint isn’t a true acrylic,it’s sort of hybrid between lacquer and acrylic,so is a bit ‘hotter’ than Vallejo for example.
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That looks like a double action brush Beefy. I would explore Paul D’s ideas as they sound feasible.
Tamiya is acrylic, by the way Blackwolf. It is just that it’s acrylic binder is formulated to use alcohol as a solvent rather than water.
When I’ve used Tamiya thinner with Vallejo (or any other acrylic using water as a solvent that I’ve tried) the paint turns into cottage cheese. It’s horrible to clean out of the airbrush because the binder structure just completely breaks down.
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;D Yep,that’s what I said here and previously. It’s an acrylic just a different makeup to Vallejo et cetera, I would mix them with say AK or Scale 75,that way leads to madness.
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"Anyway, when I turn on my airbrush the air constantly flows out the front? Is this the way it is meant to work? paint only comes when I pull back on the lever but I guess I always had the impression that air only flowed when the lever was pulled."
Yes. The idea is that you press to turn the air on and then gently throttle the paint into the airstream using the fine control on the lever. Any empty airflow also helps dry the paint on the model as well. Start the air with it pointing slightly away from the model so if it burps paint it won't go on your model. Then you can point at the model and start the paint flow. Aim to underpaint rather than over -- you can always give things a second dose.
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A double action airbrush, works by pressing down the trigger for air and pull back for paint. If there is a constant flow of air even when you are not pressing the trigger sown, that means that either the nozzle is destroyed, or the needle is not properly sitted all the way to the front. Just push it gently until you feel that it made contact and then try again.
Generally these cheap airbrushes are completely garbage and these little compressors cannot provide stable and continuous flow of air. Especially when you are a novice, you have to fight inexperience along with a faulty tool. All these cheap airbrushes are usually copies of Olympos/Iwata but without the precission machining and they try to compensate with rubber o-rings. Thats why even the few that actually work, in the future will require repairs/improvements.
Right now the best airbrush for its money imo are the Mr Hobby Creos ones. They are basically as good as Iwatas but at a fraction of the price. I think they are made at the very same factory in Japan. Probably their price will go up in the future.
Air-compressors are an issue. Some of them can be annoyingly loud especially if you have late night hobby hours. The silent ones are quite expensive. Personally I went full diy and made a silent compressor, using a refrigerator motor. I payed around 100 euros in materials but I got something that in the market would go for over 500. It has a big tank that allows 45 min of continuous work (Im spraying at 14 psi mostly) and when it has to refil the whole think sounds like... a refrigerator.
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Not sure that’s correct Capn……if the nozzle or needle were not seated properly or damaged Beefy would be getting paint as well as air through the brush. If Beefy is getting air without doing anything to the trigger then either the air valve beneath the trigger is being held open or it’s damaged, as described by Paul D.
I also think you are perhaps being a little unfair on the clone brushes. I know many modellers that are perfectly happy with a clone brush and an AS 186 compressor. Those guys produce complex Camo patterns on tanks and aircraft with them.
I personally am perfectly happy with my mid price Iwatta and smart jet pro compressor, but that set up is overkill if all you want to do is lay down primer, produce Zenitel highlights and varnish figures.
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Not sure that’s correct Capn……if the nozzle or needle were not seated properly or damaged Beefy would be getting paint as well as air through the brush. If Beefy is getting air without doing anything to the trigger then either the air valve beneath the trigger is being held open or it’s damaged, as described by Paul D.
I also think you are perhaps being a little unfair on the clone brushes. I know many modellers that are perfectly happy with a clone brush and an AS 186 compressor. Those guys produce complex Camo patterns on tanks and aircraft with them.
I personally am perfectly happy with my mid price Iwatta and smart jet pro compressor, but that set up is overkill if all you want to do is lay down primer, produce Zenitel highlights and varnish figures.
You are right! I assumed that he didnt add fluid in the cup and he got just air from the front.
Dont get me wrong, Im the last man who will scorn cheap solutions because they lack a fancy logo. Im all for diy solutions and cheap alternatives, thats why I would never pay 300-500 euros for an italian silent compressor that is basically a freezer motor with a new coat of paint on. But when it comes to airbrushes most of the times you get what you pay for. There are cheepos that run just fine. The problem is that due to the lack of quality control getting a good one is a matter of luck. You can sort of improve their performance with afew hacks like removing the rubber o-ring and sealing the nozzle with beeswax, or polishing the needle, but can a novice do this?
There is always the solution of buying one second hand. I have an iwata Eclipse and an iwata HPC+. I needed an airbrush to spray primers and thicker paints without worrying too much. I got a Revell Vario, which was a rebranded Thayer and Chandler Vega 2000, actually this kit https://www.midwestairbrush.com/ve20deaiset.html here for 35 euros. This airbrush can spay even concrete lol. A chinese clone would cost around 25 euros and now EU tries to penalize purchases from China and you have to pay VAT and import taxes.
Another solution is to go for a chinese knock off that is carrying the brand of an established company. For example AK offers some models that are clearly HP clones. They go about 40+ euros but at least you can hope that they will have some kind of quality control and you can always return a broken one. https://ak-interactive.com/product/ak-airbrush-basic-line-0-3/
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Hmmm . The cheap airbrush question. I started out with a Pasche bottom feed,basically learn’t on it,then went to a Aztec,which in hindsight was a retrograde step. Now I pretty much always use Harder and Steinbeck (I’ve got four of them),the interchangeability of the parts is brilliant,and I can get all the parts in Oz. And they’re simple to take apart and clean. I do have other ‘brushes,Iwata,Badger et cetera,it’s the H&S that’s always on the compressor though :)
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Hi Capn. I do know exactly what you mean about cheap brushes. They can work well straight out of the package, and can be tweaked and improved if you have the knowledge. As to compressors, I know they are all repurposed fridge/freezer technology (as are domestic heat pumps) but if you buy from a decent manufacturer you buy quality control again. DIY is an option if you know what you’re doing, but the stored energy in compressed air makes it a dodgy area for the hamfisted DIY buff. I’ve seen the aftermath of a gas cylinder incident…..the cylinder was dropped, the PRV end had been badly fitted and snapped off on impact, and the cylinder went through two brick walls like a torpedo before it stopped! Thankfully no one got hurt.
Completely agree ref. the Aztec, Blackwolf. I got one as my first “proper” airbrush about twenty years ago and struggled with it for quite a few years afterwards. I always thought it was me at fault :'(
When I got the Iwatta it was like turning a light on. The issues I was getting were that the parts in the Aztec were cheap and badly fitting (only one of the six nozzles I had really worked properly) and it was incredibly air hungry…..the AS 186 compressor I had simply couldn’t keep up. I still have it, and even my smart jet can’t really keep up with it…..there are no air leaks, it just needs far too much air to drive it.
I hot rodded my Iwatta, by the way, by fitting a fast flush handle. I can carry out a full strip down of the paint path for cleaning in about fifteen seconds…..it’s also a side feed so the whole paint path is more accessible for cleaning. I’ve had it for about ten years, and can’t really see me wanting anything else.
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There's a beginner's guide to airbrushing in this month's Wargames Illustrated Magazine.
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Thanks. Might have to check that out :)