Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: anton ryzbak on September 23, 2021, 03:21:36 PM
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I just picked up a box of these little beauties from my local game store. They are very impressive. Tons of posing options, superb detail. A full photo survey on my blog https://antonswargame.blogspot.com/2021/09/wargames-atlantic-28mm-late-roman.html (https://antonswargame.blogspot.com/2021/09/wargames-atlantic-28mm-late-roman.html)
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How do they compare to Gripping Beast's plastic Late Romans? A quick overview of the sprue seems to look like it isn't a big step change. Would the parts be swapable? I.E. Can I use an Atlantic head on a GB body (knowing putty work may be involved in the neck area)?
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I just got a box too, they look great, the detail is fantastic!
They also ”look” like toy soldiers and not 3d-renders which I think is great.
How do they compare to Gripping Beast's plastic Late Romans?
I don’t have any of GB’s late romans but I have their Saxons and could do a comparison shot if you’d like?
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Pro = The detail (faces excepted) and casting is very good. Accuracy is impressive. Parts look compatible with other plastics
Cons = Faces are not good. Shields are waaaaay too big, Swords in scabbards are waaayy too long. There is a weird angle to the shoulder joint.
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Isn’t the sword the longer spatha?
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I just built four of the Wargames Atlantic figures and did a side-by-side comparison with my existing Gripping Beast Late Romans https://antonswargame.blogspot.com/2021/09/size-comparison-between-wargames.html (https://antonswargame.blogspot.com/2021/09/size-comparison-between-wargames.html)
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They are nice figures, but they will not be too useful for kitbashing - they look quite large. Doing a head swap will either make them look like pin heads or make other figures look like a Zeppelin has parked itself on their shoulders.
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Thanks for the review. Your pictures are much clearer than the ones I took for a short discussion of the set on Twitter (which therefore haven't appeared here). Since I focussed on the dreaded 'accuracy' of the set, I'd like to add my thoughts. If that's too much of a distraction for the OP, I'll gladly open a separate thread.
Essentially, I think this set is mislabelled. Yes, there is a good choice of helmet variants for the 4th (and 5th) century. Yes, the plumbatae/mattiobarboli/"darts" are an iconic 'Late Roman' piece of equipment. All other gear represents much better fashions of the (early) 3rd century – which apparently changed somewhen between 250 and 300 CE. Of course, one might easily look past small items like the belt or the dagger, and I'm just a stickler perhaps. Yet for 'historical wargaming' I'd rather wanted the product to fully embrace the period it's advertised to represent.
As it stands, though, the set will be most useful for people (like me) with an interest in the earlier period. Plastic 3rd century Romans, who would've thought of that even five years ago? Also, apart from the integrated dart holder, domed oval shields are a welcome addition to my arsenal. Given the measurements of the originals found at Dura Europos (about 115 x 95 cm) they don't look out of size to me.
Speaking of size, again these figures seem to fit in nicely with the 3rd century ranges by A&A and Aventine. As they're quite slender, they aren't even out of place if combined with Foundry's (Perry) Late Romans – if you really must. ;D
FYI, here's a comparison shot (sorry, had no suitable Aventine mini at hand, but the one shown is by the same sculptor).
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/52/1034-240921145548.jpeg)
As I said, @anton ryzbak please let me know if you want me to move this somewhere else. :)
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Thank you for the review Anton, I probably will pick some up to build my western Roman legionarys (already have A&A eastern army!)
Cheers
Matt
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They are nice figures, but they will not be too useful for kitbashing - they look quite large. Doing a head swap will either make them look like pin heads or make other figures look like a Zeppelin has parked itself on their shoulders.
The Arthurian heads from West Wind might work well as IIRC they are on the large size. Would be more typical for Late Empire styles too.
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Thanks for the comparisons, most helpful.
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Out of interest are they same scale as the rest of the wargames Atlantic range ?
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They match-up rather well with other Wargames Atlantic p[roducts
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Thankyou :)
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Here's a Magister Militum shield done by yours truly. These chaps are worth looking up on Facebook. They're exceptionally well researched( including a doctorate in Roman military history amongst their founders) and have spent obscene money on authentic equipment .( each of them have at least one personal handmade helmet that cost more than my car.)
The brief was to reinterpret the ND illustration of shield into a form that could be copied using minimal brush strokes, zero skill and stencils. So it could be reproduced on mass or individually as new members join or equipment needs replacing.
The damned thing is turning up all over the place.
I've made just about every known varriant of late Roman shield. Personally I'd not be that bothered about the diameter of shields on miniatures the most telling feature is helmet closely followed by the weapons.
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It is a period where we have actual examples of the shields (from Dura Europus) to go on. However on an empire wide level of procurement I doubt if there was a strictly adhered to standard.
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:? Duro is an absolutely fascinating site. It's very complex What's lost on most re enactors and war gamer's is location and context of items. One of the most important line's in the excavation reports is that. This site and artifacts give a fascinating insight into The Arms. Armour, and military organization of the Eastern Empire..It doesn't jump to the conclusion that one site no matter how rich in finds .Is representative of the Empire entire. It should also be remembered since the beginning of the Empire cultural and regional constraints such as climate have influenced the look of the standardized equipment of each legion relative to their garrisons and or deployment.
Much in the same way The Indian Army in 1930's Has both subtle and glaring visual and practical difference to the BEF in 1939.
Waffling aside If your buying figures with shields and transfers. Then the slightly bigger shields are going to make for prettier units on a table and from a greater distance.
It's only when you get close up. Things like helmets start to stick out like a sore thumb.
I'd whole heartedly reccomend you just have fun with them. This unit is part of my late Roman stuff . It's deliberately inaccurate and no one has ever notice. lol
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I'd whole heartedly reccomend you just have fun with them. This unit is part of my late Roman stuff . It's deliberately inaccurate and no one has ever notice. lol
I am shocked to the core! 😳
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Another rough comparison pic.
(https://myalbum.com/photo/cyMkkM7rmkw7/360.jpg)
Left to right:
Wargames Atlantic with Wargames Atlantic Hedderheim helmet ~(3rd Century)
Gripping Beast with Wargames Atlantic segmented helmet ~(3rd Century - 5th Century+)
Wargames Atlantic with Gripping Beast ridge helmet ~(4th Century+)
The heads are interchangeable to my eye, just some minor neck surgery required to make them sit in the right place. Until seen side by side the slightly soft detail on the Wargames Atlantic figures was not obvious to me. Heightwise the Gripping Beast is 1-2mm shorter but compensated by the thicker base. (I have mounted them in the photo so that the bottom of the feet are about level.) They are all in a semi- crouch pose so it is not particularly jarring. They are very similar in heft/chunkiness, the Wargames Atlantic sculpts are slimmer and slightly longer in the arms and legs.
The vast difference between the two different sprues is the wealth of parts on the Wargames Atlantic frame and the exceptionally mean paucity of parts on the Gripping Beast version. The extra heads (particularly the pillbox caps and the Intercisa ridge helmets) will be very welcome for modifying the Gripping Beast figures. The heads are less cartoony and of course the armoured bodies allow a more sensibly equipped force for the 4th Century and beyond.
(https://myalbum.com/photo/VBFNDNG8HcMB/360.jpg)