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Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: armchairgeneral on December 22, 2021, 09:59:28 PM

Title: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 22, 2021, 09:59:28 PM
Just wondered if anyone has a take on what the Easterlings were like from the LotR books? I can’t find much to go on. Axe armed with beards. So maybe Viking or Rus types?
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 22, 2021, 11:04:18 PM
There isn't much to go on, though what there is is collected here (http://www.henneth-annun.net/bios_view.cfm?SCID=237).


These two quotes seem to be about it for their physical appearance:

Quote
"These Men were short and broad, long and strong in the arm; their skins were swart or sallow, and their hair was dark as were their eyes."

The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 18, Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin

and:

Quote
"... countless companies of Men of a new sort.... Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come...."
The Return of the King, LoTR Book 5, Ch 4, The Siege of Gondor

Only the second quote is strictly "canonical", in that it's something Tolkien actually finalised and published, but the first seems to match up well with it.

So they don't seem to conform to the received image of Vikings - they're more like Huns on foot with added beards and axes. The Wainriders are Easterlings, which might strengthen the notion of them as being like Steppe nomads.

The Variags of Khand, on the other hand, conform to Vikings or Rus etymologically ("Variag" = "Varangian"). And they're differentiated from the "Easterlings with axes" (although Tolkien quite often appears to differentiate things that are identical - "orcs and wolf-riders", for instance - as an archaic rhetorical flourish). But they're not described at all, so their name is just a tantalising pointer.

Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 23, 2021, 08:54:07 PM
Thanks Hobgoblin. I was hoping you would chime in. I had seen the Variag/ Varangian reference. To me though that sort of means they would just look a bit like dismounted Riders of Rohan with axes.

I see the general Easterlings referred to at the Battle of the Black Gate as quite wild looking. As you say quite like  Huns or early cossacks with axes. Just pondering over figures.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Blackwolf on December 23, 2021, 09:27:10 PM
Hobgoblin is the man!
I always picture Easterlings as the non Hunnic members of the Attila’s confederation,essentially dark haired Goths and so forth,particularly in the Silmarillion. However these days that is my focus,as I find Lord of the Rings slightly overstated and not a little laboured,that comes from reading it too many times :) The Silmarillion is ,to my mind much more subtle,and mythic .
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: nicknorthstar on December 23, 2021, 10:10:59 PM
Don't forget Frodo's vision:

Horsemen were galloping on the grass of Rohan; wolves poured from Isengard. From the havens of Harad ships of war put out to sea; and out of the East Men were moving endlessly: swordsmen, spearmen, bowmen upon horses, chariots of chieftains and laden wains. All the power of the Dark Lord was in motion.

I've always been intrigued by the chariot reference. Chariots are such an archaic weapon, out of place in what is mostly an 11th/ 12th century war setting.

Personally I've always gone with a steppes peoples/ hun look for the Easterlings. But I used to know a Tolkien-fanatic wargamer who used traditional fantasy barbarians, and actually they looked really good.

Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 23, 2021, 10:20:10 PM
Personally I've always gone with a steppes peoples/ hun look for the Easterlings. But I used to know a Tolkien-fanatic wargamer who used traditional fantasy barbarians, and actually they looked really good.

So any suggestions for figures?
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 23, 2021, 10:33:34 PM
Don't forget Frodo's vision:

Horsemen were galloping on the grass of Rohan; wolves poured from Isengard. From the havens of Harad ships of war put out to sea; and out of the East Men were moving endlessly: swordsmen, spearmen, bowmen upon horses, chariots of chieftains and laden wains. All the power of the Dark Lord was in motion.

Aha - I'd forgotten that entirely!

That's a great reference, and it certainly compounds the Steppe-peoples impression with the mounted archers. You know, every time I've read that after the first, I've probably thought of the Haradrim rather than the Easterlings. But with the chariots and wains, it's clearly the latter. Interesting that the axes don't pop up there - presumably, they were added as the Easterlings "came into focus" in the later sections.

I've always been intrigued by the chariot reference. Chariots are such an archaic weapon, out of place in what is mostly an 11th/ 12th century war setting.

That's a great point too! I wonder if there was a bit of "outside influence" at play - perhaps JRRT looking beyond the Germanic world to Ireland or even to Homer.

Or maybe it was just a natural martial extension of the Hunnic/Avar wain concept.


Personally I've always gone with a steppes peoples/ hun look for the Easterlings. But I used to know a Tolkien-fanatic wargamer who used traditional fantasy barbarians, and actually they looked really good.

I reckon the Frostgrave barbarians could work really well in this role. They're slightly "squat and broad" to begin with, and I think they have relatively long arms - I've found them to work well with the gnoll kits. The horned helmets capture that "fantasy barbarian" look perfectly, of course, and there's no shortage of axes or beards.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 23, 2021, 10:56:58 PM
I reckon the Frostgrave barbarians could work really well in this role. They're slightly "squat and broad" to begin with, and I think they have relatively long arms - I've found them to work well with the gnoll kits. The horned helmets capture that "fantasy barbarian" look perfectly, of course, and there's no shortage of axes or beards.

Good shout. I like the look out those.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 23, 2021, 11:09:45 PM
If you were to use Victrix Vikings for the Variags, the Frostgrave Easterlings would certainly look "short and broad" next to them - but not at all out of scale. I can post a picture of them side by side if that would help.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 24, 2021, 12:04:30 AM
If you were to use Victrix Vikings for the Variags, the Frostgrave Easterlings would certainly look "short and broad" next to them - but not at all out of scale. I can post a picture of them side by side if that would help.

Thanks for the offer. I have a Foundry Viking army I can draw on for the Variags if need be but I like the idea of something more generic using those Frostgrave figures.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Cubs on December 24, 2021, 12:04:47 AM
I know Gripping Beast do Mongolians in metal, or used to. In plastic I know Fireforge do 'Steppe Warriors' (foot) and 'Mongol Cavalry' (lighter mounted, archers and such) plus 'Mongol Heavy Cavalry' (heavy armoured lancers, mounted). They're what I would personally go for.

Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Porsenna on December 24, 2021, 02:04:08 AM
Don't forget Frodo's vision:

Horsemen were galloping on the grass of Rohan; wolves poured from Isengard. From the havens of Harad ships of war put out to sea; and out of the East Men were moving endlessly: swordsmen, spearmen, bowmen upon horses, chariots of chieftains and laden wains. All the power of the Dark Lord was in motion.

I've always been intrigued by the chariot reference. Chariots are such an archaic weapon, out of place in what is mostly an 11th/ 12th century war setting.


I think this is one place where it would have been nice to know how well Tolkien was versed in non Western history. Like, was he aware of the (relatively late) usage of Chinese 'Chariots', and rolled these in as an inclusion to describe what is honestly an unknowable expanse of land east of the given map?

I'm of the opinion that outside of Mordor which seems like a stand in for the Turks of later, that LoTR stands as a dark age setting, what with the themes of fallen empires, plagues, barbarians at the gates, migrations of peoples etc.

I think a hunnic general inspiration of the easterlings is appropriate, but as part of that a whole 'hunnic confederation' of different peoples (from Goths and Varangians to Sarmatians and Alans and Huns all the way over to far eastern elements) would be a good path to go down, if only to help show the expanse of Sauron's dominions in the east.

On the flip side, the Blue Wizards are supposed ot have been stirring up rebellion and resistance to Sauron in the east, so a setting perhaps with 'eastern empire' as Gondors cognate also fighting these hordes might be a neat narrative path to go down one day!
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 24, 2021, 10:58:47 AM
Thanks for the figure suggestions.

I have the GB Black Hoods in my Rus army as well as Varangian guard so they should work okay. As well as Fireforge I notice TAG do Mongol heavy infantry. I do like the Frostgrave barbarians though. I will have a think. I wonder if Northstar are having a January sale?  :)
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2021, 11:49:00 AM
One option might be to swap some bearded heads onto the Steppe nomad bodies. But the Frostgrave barbarians do give you the axes. Frostgrave heads would work OK on the nomad bodies, though the neck attachments would need surgery at both ends. I think the arms would look a bit big, though. But you could probably mingle bit and pieces (bow cases, fur cloaks, etc) across the ranges to get figures that would work well together.

Another line to throw into the mix are the Fireforge Russians, which give you some axes and bearded heads:

(https://fireforge-games.com/211-medium_default/russian-infantry.jpg)
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Emir of Askaristan on December 24, 2021, 12:08:50 PM
Geography might give some clues. Easterlings come from the steppe land beyond Rhovanion and around Rhun. The Variags are of Khand, south east of Mordor. These correspond to the areas of (roughly) the Ukrainian and Pontic steppe and Bulgaria and Romania respectively.

So that would tie with Huns, Avars, Magyars, Slavs and Khazars for Easterlings (and Bulgar, Byzantine types for Variags).

There are so many eastern tribes and peoples depending on how you feel middle earth correlates in terms of timescale and historical periods, you can take your pick.

The axe could be Bardiche like or equally the Turks and other central Asian peoples certainly made use of hand axes will into the 19th century.

Wains pretty much equal yurts....but chariots ....no idea ☺️
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 04:31:30 PM
I find it very interesting that the books suggest more of a mongolian/eastern european look whilst the movies (lets not aargue about quality/accuracy etc etc) go for a more Arabic inspired feel. Do you think it was Jackson and Co taking "Men from the east" a tad too literally?
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: nicknorthstar on December 24, 2021, 05:32:37 PM
IMPO, Jackson shouldn't be included in any talk about Tolkien. He made Peter Jacksons LotR, and his choices were about what the 'ignorant of Tolkien' cinema viewers would like and what they could make in budget.

The other 'steppe peoples' references are in the Appendices, I've not checked them out for this post, but the wain riders travelling and fighting from wagons can only come from historical steppe people references.

The medieval Russians from Fireforge are not Easterlings for me, they are Laketown, 100%. The drawing of Laketown in the Hobbit looks really Russian/ East European, I'd have them and the men of Dale looking like early Medieval Russians.

I recall someone using Chinese as Easterlings, being inspired by the vision of the chariots. I've no argument against that, it's just not the aesthetic for me.

Tolkien himself talked about being influenced by Roman History, something like someone with his education couldn't help but be influenced by the invasions and ebbs and flows of the history of Rome. I don't think that meant Gondorians should look like Romans (maybe Byzantines), but it does support the idea of Easterlings being Hun/ Avars etc.

On a separate note, although I'm in the 'Easterlings are steppe people' camp, the 1st Age Easterlings I'd definitely use the Frostgrave barbarians, painted with darker skin and black hair.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2021, 06:33:00 PM
Tolkien himself talked about being influenced by Roman History, something like someone with his education couldn't help but be influenced by the invasions and ebbs and flows of the history of Rome. I don't think that meant Gondorians should look like Romans (maybe Byzantines), but it does support the idea of Easterlings being Hun/ Avars etc.

Yes - and I'm struck by the similarities between Tolkien's description of the Easterlings and his description of the Orcs in a letters as resembling "hideous and repulsive versions" of peoples of "Mongol-type". The Orc description doesn't sit comfortably with modern sensibilities, but it seems to me that Tolkien actually goes to some lengths to say that Orcs don't look like Steppe peoples but like monstrous versions of them.

In any case, the Easterlings are "short and broad" while Orcs are "squat and broad"; and both have long arms and "sallow" or "swart" skin. And Orcs use composite bows like Steppe peoples. In his published works, though, Tolkien, seems to use the archaic swart only for Orcs, not people, who are sometimes "swarthy" instead - perhaps a deliberate choice to separate monsters from Men.

Now, Tolkien's Orc descriptions seem to be very much influenced by Ammianus Marcellinus's famous description of the Huns - "more monsters than men", etc. - and its echoes in later texts (which include an association with wolves). The central event of so many of the Germanic sagas in which Tolkien was steeped is the destruction of the Burgundian kingdom by the Huns hired by Aetius.

So the Huns loomed very large in Tolkien's professional life. To create his Orcs, he seems to have literalised Ammianus's monstrous Huns and then given them the speech and mannerisms of brutish British soldiers - a comparison that he makes explicit in his letters. But while Orcs may have been made from Men, they are not Men - and so there are also Men who resemble real-world Steppe nomads rather than Ammianus's hyperbolic account of them.

But perhaps Tolkien's Easterlings are actually closer to the Scythians than the Huns. Now that I think of it, didn't the Scythians sometimes use chariots? And didn't they also typically wear beards and sometimes use axes (the Sagaris)?

Of course, later Steppe peoples like the Huns were often described as Scythians. But the historical Scythians might offer a way to field miniatures that are very much in line with Tolkien's descriptions.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2021, 06:38:07 PM
This fellow looks the part, I think:

(https://wildfiregames.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2017_09/IMG_8265.JPG.1ee88ec4fca51b0ce6b4705f79ac547f.JPG)
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2021, 06:59:10 PM
Hmm ... 28mm Scythian infantry seems to be thin on the ground. But Victrix Dacians might make quite good "fantasy Scythians" with appropriate paintwork. You'd need to replace the falxes with axes (plenty of those to be had on Victrix Viking or Frostgrave barbarian sprues), but I think they'd do the job if you wanted people who looked more Iranian than Turco-Mongol.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0782/9619/products/groupphoto_2048x.jpg?v=1611237991)
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 24, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
I wondered about 1st Corps Mongol foot rearmed with axes and maybe round shields.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 26, 2021, 11:00:20 AM
I wondered about 1st Corps Mongol foot rearmed with axes and maybe round shields.

The only thing about those is that they're not "bearded like dwarves". I reckon you'd save time, money and effort by using Frostgrave barbarians or kitbashing the Dacians and/or Fireforge plastics with a suitable source of axes (Frostgrave barbarians, Victrix Vikings).

Greenstuffing a lot of beards seems a lot of work!
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: armchairgeneral on December 26, 2021, 11:05:43 AM
The only thing about those is that they're not "bearded like dwarves". I reckon you'd save time, money and effort by using Frostgrave barbarians or kitbashing the Dacians and/or Fireforge plastics with a suitable source of axes (Frostgrave barbarians, Victrix Vikings).

Greenstuffing a lot of beards seems a lot of work!

Thanks, I had forgotten about the beards. Yes the Frostgrave barbarians seem favourite.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Elbows on December 26, 2021, 05:33:08 PM
If anything it's an opportunity to do "your take" on the Tolkein fiction.  You have stuff like Fireforge's Steppe Warriors, and so many other excellent plastic kits I'd imagine you could assemble a cool vision - just ahistorical enough to be a fantasy army. 
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: DalyDR on December 27, 2021, 01:30:25 AM
Way back when, before Mr. Jackson did that thing he did, Citadel had an earlier line of Lord of the Rings miniatures, and this was their take on an "Easterling".  He's got the axe, and a beard, and a definite Mongol flavor to him.  There was a mounted version too, with a very steppe-ponyish looking horse.  Pardon the poor paint job (I painted it way back when) and the hasty photo.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51776691422_5843ae2335.jpg)
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on December 27, 2021, 06:48:42 AM
As always it is fascinating to see how different folks visualize Tolkien’s work.

Jackson has definitely had a strong influence on Mrs. GG. She has resisted my suggestion to replace some our Jackson based GW LOTR miniatures with conversion pieces of my own inspired by conversations on this Forum and my own personal visualizations.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Porsenna on December 27, 2021, 01:39:30 PM
I think there are certain jacksons designs that are great- the Numenorians/Early Gondorian-Arnorian soldiers from the introduction of fellowship are fantastic, as are the Rohirrim, even if i would have preferred to see scale armor on the 3rd Age Gondorians instead of plate. That said, I still think those 3rd Age Gondorian helmets (save the fountain court incarnation) are just fantastic.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: nicknorthstar on December 30, 2021, 03:01:07 PM
Remember, the broad, short, beaded axe-wielding Easterling were described as a type never encountered before.

So where the majority of the Easterlings I'd use Steppe people figures to represent, this other group is a whole new debate.

Many, many moons ago, I did the concept work for the Lord of the Rings range by Harlequin Miniatures. These were my ideas for the new Axe Easterlings.

Unfortunately, that company rarely paid designers properly, so although the ideas were there, they are quite poorly sculpted figures. Even though I did the concepts, I was too disappointed to collect the figures themselves.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Emir of Askaristan on January 08, 2022, 12:06:16 PM
Have you seen the 3D printed Peculiar Companions "Russian humans heavy infantry"?

The infantry are based on muscovites and are bearded and axe wielding and they have cavalry too.

Might be right up your street.

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-russian-humans-heavy-infantry-187156
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: armchairgeneral on January 08, 2022, 12:19:14 PM
Have you seen the 3D printed Peculiar Companions "Russian humans heavy infantry"?

The infantry are based on muscovites and are bearded and axe wielding and they have cavalry too.

Might be right up your street.

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-russian-humans-heavy-infantry-187156

Thanks for the tip. I have seen other 3D printable figures I have liked but not sure how to obtain them without a 3D printer?
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Elk101 on January 08, 2022, 01:16:39 PM
They don't look bad at all, but it would be nice to see printed versions rather than renders.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: Emir of Askaristan on January 08, 2022, 05:31:32 PM
Depending on where you are check Etsy and eBay - licensed resellers usually sell them there.
I've not bought this particular company but others are pretty close to the render.
Title: Re: Book Faithful Easterlings
Post by: DivisMal on January 08, 2022, 11:29:00 PM
Remember, the broad, short, beaded axe-wielding Easterling were described as a type never encountered before.

So where the majority of the Easterlings I'd use Steppe people figures to represent, this other group is a whole new debate.

Many, many moons ago, I did the concept work for the Lord of the Rings range by Harlequin Miniatures. These were my ideas for the new Axe Easterlings.

Unfortunately, that company rarely paid designers properly, so although the ideas were there, they are quite poorly sculpted figures. Even though I did the concepts, I was too disappointed to collect the figures themselves.

Wow! Nick, even though the minis themselves don’t really take me, the idea behind them is visible and very much in keeping with the books. Smaller axes, more realistic proportions and they would be pretty cool!