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Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Major_Gilbear on December 23, 2021, 08:36:02 PM

Title: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 23, 2021, 08:36:02 PM
As per the thread title, has anybody played one or more of these games? If so, what were they like? In no particular order:


I ask as I've recently found the rules for them, but don't know too much about them - for me, I was playing 40k at the time, and didn't have money or time for other sci-fi platoon-size games. These were therefore, for me, "the ones that got away".

However, now that times have changed and these have come back onto my radar, I'm curious to know what people thought if them, and whether it might be worth my time giving them a go at long last. :)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: robh on December 23, 2021, 11:15:04 PM
The original VOID (up to 1.1) was very good. I ran it for a while at an after school gaming club, iKore/UM were very helpful with getting started. I never played later versions so cannot comment on those.

(http://cf.geekdo-images.com/5xMTVMgQOwPwqwzAtdsq1g__imagepage/img/gAAbaLy9IiFpkR97wMibcSUHon8=/fit-in/900x600/filters:no_upscale():strip_icc()/pic77875.jpg)

Easy rules to pick up with 4 "human" factions that were identifiable to new players but with enough of a difference to make them look and feel individual, there is also a single obviously "Alien" race to add more variety.

It is very much a small squad game (I never bothered with the big walkers and vehicles). Units are not hugely varied within each force but do have unique abilities or special rules to make them subtly different.
Games can be 20 or so figures up to about 100, but that is pushing it. Playable in 60 to 90 minutes.

The figures for 1.1 are lovely, very clean uncluttered true 28mm sculpts (Kev White).  As a sci-fi platoon game I would much rather play that than any iteration of 40K.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: frank xerox on December 24, 2021, 12:25:01 AM
Have only played a couple of games of void a fair while ago - can’t remember too much about the gameplay but as robh says the figures are lovely. Think Seb games has them now.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 12:39:36 AM
Thanks robh for your comprehensive answer - exactly to sort of thing I was looking for!  :)  Yes that purple book is the one I have too. I also have the Urban War Metropolis version of VOID that Mammoth did later, but that looks like a skirmish game with 8-15 models a side, which is really a bit too small for me (especially as I'm already flush with very good sci-fi games at that scale). I'm really looking at the three named games in the thread title as being some 25-45 models a side, plus maybe a light vehicle/walker or a 3-4 model mounted/monstrous infantry unit as a centrepiece for a force?

Do you remember what inter-faction balance was like (I imagine fairly decent if 4/5 armies all had similar core troops), and were there any specific features of the game that you particularly liked?

Miniatures-wise, the Kev sculpts are all still available, as are the later Urban Mammoth ones (which I also quite like on the whole, but they don't quite template over to the older game units exactly). One thing I couldn't quite work out is whether the faction books superceded the force lists in the purple book, or if they were in addition to the lists in the book.  ???

Quote from: frank xerox on December 24, 2021, 12:25:01 AM
Have only played a couple of games of void a fair while ago - can’t remember too much about the gameplay but as robh says the figures are lovely. Think Seb games has them now.
Yes, Seb Games has the original models (seen in the purple book), and Scotia Gendel has the later UM minis (plus a few of the original Kev sculpts too). Neither are terribly priced, and I'm delighted to see they're both still available.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Torben on December 24, 2021, 05:26:58 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 12:39:36 AM
Do you remember what inter-faction balance was like (I imagine fairly decent if 4/5 armies all had similar core troops), and were there any specific features of the game that you particularly liked?

Now, I'm not Robh but I was also heavily into VOID back in the day and hosted tournaments for it and what nots - and from my experience the balance was way off when it came to the Syntha forces especially.

Whilst expensive, point wise, their weaponry were leagues ahead of all other armies and could be utterly devastating if your opponent knew what he was doing. As a quick example, the basic Androsynth unit (the cool robot soldiers) had a support weapon that fired a large template, with a high strength of 8 out of 10, and multi-damage. This meant that whenever it fired it would usually hit all models in most squads and sometimes even multiple squads, and would roll two dice to wound, usually needing a 2+ to score a wound on a d10.

Now, yes, my usual opponents did like to play Syntha and did indeed wipe the floor whenever we played, so there's some slight bias of course! :D But in general, I'd say that the balance between the other factions are fairly good - with some unit combinations that can be quite hard to face if you're not prepared for it, as the army building rules were a bit loose.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: NotifyGrout on December 24, 2021, 08:56:11 AM
I played a bit of Warzone 1st.

Ease of play
It's a pretty straightforward system. Units have a number of action points to spend on movement, shooting, melee, aiming/bracing a weapon, and so on. Combat is d20 based which allows for a lot of variance between forces. Roll under your Missile Weapons or Close Combat score to hit. Success means your opponent looks at their Armor stat, subtracts the Damage of the weapon, and has to roll under the resulting total to avoid a wound. There are the usual cover modifiers and all that, but the core of any action that has a chance to fail is "roll under score after modifiers".

Variety of units/variety of play within each army
The forces vary quite a bit. The five Megacorps and the Brotherhood make up the human forces, plus there is the option of a Cartel force that allows mix-and-match and to field Doomtroopers, expensive but powerful heroes. The Dark Legion has five subfactions, and a force can be mixed and matched from any of those five powers. Each faction (Legion or human) has aspects where they are great and those where they are not so great.

Do you need big squads, or are small 5-6 model squads playable?
5-6 man squads are actually the average. The largest squad sizes are for Legionnaires, the Dark Legion's lowly grunts, and those are 7-10 plus a squad leader. This game knows it's platoon/warband scale and doesn't try to push that.

Variety of gameplay/replayability
Victory Points (1 VP per 50 points or part thereof slain or broken) can be used to calculate a winner. There are a few sample scenarios given, and they are good enough to get players going. It wasn't until Second Edition that more scenarios and more than a basic set of campaign rules came into play.

Game duration
Generally a 500 point game will last about an hour to 90 minutes, while a 1000 point game will probably go around two to two and a half hours.

Any notable pros/cons.

I'll start with cons:
Now the pros:
This game was doing alternate unit activations (as opposed to IGOUGO) long before it became cool in sci-fi and fantasy wargaming. It's neither too complicated nor too simple. I...I kinda want to try playing it again, even if I have to proxy a bunch.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 12:38:59 PM
@ Torben:

Looking through the force book, that weapon would be the Plasma Cannon I think? It looks pretty similar to the it's 40k equivalent of the same name (well, Heavy Plasma Gun in RT/2E), but I can see what you mean about it being considerably more powerful than the squad support upgrades available to units elsewhere in the game. It also looks like Syntha can customise their troops via purchasable upgrades too? I remember seeing this sort of customisation in 40k 2E/3E (Eldar Exarchs in 2E and Tyranids in 3E), and it always seemed that either the upgrades had a winning combo, or were too expensive to bother with at all. Usually the former ended up creating some frightening game-distorting units though! Do these have similar issued in VOID, or are they in fact more reasonable?


@NotifyGrout:

Thank you for the detailed breakdown of Warzone First Edition.

It's interesting that you mentioned the unit sizes being around 5-6 models, and that armies were 5-6 squads, as the boxed set they put out (in, I'm guessing, Second Edition) with the scores of plastic figures in it seemed to suggest that it was being aimed at units that were around 10 models strong, with perhaps 6-7 units a side. Do you recall what balance was like between factions at all please?

Speaking of miniatures, I thought Prince August was still making and selling these? Or are they only running down old stocks? Or are these a different era of sculpts? If I wanted to play this game, am I basically looking at proxying to get consistent-looking forces? Anvil Industries looks like they might be a decent place to start with for Imperial/Capitol/Bauhaus factions, although I suppose VOID and/or VOR models might also be a decent fit (especially Syntha troops as Cybertronic). What would you use as proxies? :)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 04:44:43 PM
Whilst I cant add much to the convo (beyond Vors minis are still in production with....Ral Partha iirc?) It's nice to see more interest in these games.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 24, 2021, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 12:38:59 PM
(...)
It's interesting that you mentioned the unit sizes being around 5-6 models, and that armies were 5-6 squads, as the boxed set they put out (in, I'm guessing, Second Edition) with the scores of plastic figures in it seemed to suggest that it was being aimed at units that were around 10 models strong, with perhaps 6-7 units a side. Do you recall what balance was like between factions at all please?(...)

I played Warzone 1E and 2E quite extensively. 1E was more of a smallish skirmisher, whereas 2E aimed to go towards larger forces akin to WH40k levels. In 2E, in my experience, the basic plastic troops were the only ones effectively fielded in ten-squads, especially since their specialists except for the HMG were only rarely seen. Squad composition IIRC was based on 1 specialist for x regular troopers, and the better troops released in metal tended to work best in squads of 7 to 8, considering the tight command radii (i.e. you couldn't really do skirmish lines to avoid area weapons to to coherency being measured from the leader).

Balancing IMHO was better in first edition, although Brotherhood had some really rotten power combos, especially if cybernetics were used indiscriminately. Second edition's basic set lists were okay if a bit boring after a while, and there was the problem that they only released two army books before they folded, with Capitol and Bauhays bring quite OP in comparison to the other lists except Dark Legion.

That said, I liked both 1E and 2E Warzone very much, and preferred them to early 3rd edition 40k. But with Target Games' demise, there simply wasn't that much interest, supplies dried up and the matchups got old in a while.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 24, 2021, 06:01:45 PM
On Void 1.0, I played that a bit in 1999. Much better than it's predecessor Kryomek, good if a bit samey sculpts, and the mechanisms weren't that much different from 40k 3rd with some key improvements in activation. It suffered in my then groups from a lack of availability (Germany in the 1990s and early 2000s being a gaming wasteland beyond GW).

All in all, I'd probably go for Void for ease of play and adaptability these days. Warzone had a great fluff going for it.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 07:12:56 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on December 24, 2021, 06:01:45 PM
On Void 1.0, I played that a bit in 1999. Much better than it's predecessor Kryomek, good if a bit samey sculpts, and the mechanisms weren't that much different from 40k 3rd with some key improvements in activation. It suffered in my then groups from a lack of availability (Germany in the 1990s and early 2000s being a faming wasteland beyond GW).

All in all, I'd probably go for Void for ease of play and adaptability these days. Warzone had a great fluff going for it.

Plus Seb Games are being pretty cool with the re-release. All the rules are free downloads, theres a new starter box (Syntha vs Vasa) and a new Skirmish version of the game (Viridian vs Junkers) on the way, plus the Tiger APC is out again.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 08:41:28 PM
Westfalia Chris,

Thanks for the contrast on Warzone 1 and 2, and for your thoughts on VOID. The rules for Warzone read a little bit like the ones for Infinity (though much more limited, of course), and VOID seems to be more like a d10-based hybrid of 40k 2E and 3E. Strictly from a game rules point of view, anyway.

With Warzone and VOID, I got the distinct impression that they did okay against 40k in Scandinavia, Germany and Poland, even though 40k "won" in the end. In UK, rest of Europe and north America, is was basically 40k all the way. That's just based on my impressions though, so I don't know how well that actually holds out (and several responders here are British). VOR seemed to do better in Canada/north America, and I've seen very little about it both when it was still a current game, and in general afterwards.

As for Kryomek, I've heard of it quite a few times over the years, but otherwise know very little about it. Is/was it similar to Warzone/VOID/VOR?

Quote from: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 04:44:43 PM
It's nice to see more interest in these games.
They were all very much games of their time, but their lack of continued success never meant that they weren't good games. Funnily enough, I think that if they'd had the advantages of communication that exists today, they might have fared much better and would likely have survived. I'm curious about them as I know they are "dead" games (which I find appealing in itself since I don't need to "keep up" with releases), but I also know that they all tried in their own way to address the bigger complaints many players had about 40k (most of which were valid). I guess I want to know if they succeeded in being better than 40k, and whether they are worth enough effort to collect a couple of forces for to play them. Hence why I'm now asking the people who played them! :)

Quote from: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 07:12:56 PM
Plus Seb Games are being pretty cool with the re-release. All the rules are free downloads, theres a new starter box (Syntha vs Vasa) and a new Skirmish version of the game (Viridian vs Junkers) on the way, plus the Tiger APC is out again.
I didn't know about the new starter sets, but I have been on Seb Games website recently. It is cool the rules and forcebooks are free, although I think over the years they have been free before for at least a period of time. In any case, I like that the old models are still available, and I hope that they remain so even after the new game(s) is/are launched. :)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 08:59:55 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 08:41:28 PM

They were all very much games of their time, but their lack of continued success never meant that they weren't good games. Funnily enough, I think that if they'd had the advantages of communication that exists today, they might have fared much better and would likely have survived. I'm curious about them as I know they are "dead" games (which I find appealing in itself since I don't need to "keep up" with releases), but I also know that they all tried in their own way to address the bigger complaints many players had about 40k (most of which were valid). I guess I want to know if they succeeded in being better than 40k, and whether they are worth enough effort to collect a couple of forces for to play them. Hence why I'm now asking the people who played them! :)
I didn't know about the new starter sets, but I have been on Seb Games website recently. It is cool the rules and forcebooks are free, although I think over the years they have been free before for at least a period of time. In any case, I like that the old models are still available, and I hope that they remain so even after the new game(s) is/are launched. :)

I think the biggest things holding potential players back is the "Dead game" notion and the old-school miniatures.  Now as long as players can appreciate the sculpting style and its limitations then you've got them halfway, as you say the internet is reviving half these systems in some form or the other. Vor and Void may make me break my "No more 28mm games" for 2022 resolution.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 09:20:21 PM
Quote from: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 08:59:55 PM
I think the biggest things holding potential players back is the "Dead game" notion and the old-school miniatures.
Yeah, it's weird; I have many projects, and find the release schedules are often too much to keep up with. Whereas dead games are patient, and I don't have to rush - everything that ever existed for the game is already out, and is now just waiting for me! Don't get me wrong, it's nice to get releases for everything, but after that... Games need to keep growing to justify new releases, and then periodic new editions that just reset everything rather than fix actual gameplay/balance issues. I find it all surprisingly stressful, which is odd as it's just playing a game with friends in the end. (Power of marketing I guess? :( )

Quote from: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 08:59:55 PM
Now as long as players can appreciate the sculpting style and its limitations then you've got them halfway, as you say the internet is reviving half these systems in some form or the other.
For me, as long as a force is consistent in style and is faithful to the imagery of the faction in the game, the actual miniatures used bothers me much less. If somebody wants to use suitable proxies, that's fine as long as I can easily tell what they're supposed to be and I can distinguish all the units types/weapons okay without needing to ask again every five minutes.

Quote from: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 08:59:55 PM
Vor and Void may make me break my "No more 28mm games" for 2022 resolution.
Go for it! Judging by the comments I've received so far on game size and game balance/duration, what's actually holding you back?  ;)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 09:20:21 PM

Go for it! Judging by the comments I've received so far on game size and game balance/duration, what's actually holding you back?  ;)

Honestly? Space and a crazy huge backlog lol It's sometimes hard for me to internally justify "more sci humans" you know ?
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Blackwolf on December 24, 2021, 10:52:21 PM
I played Warzone a fair bit in the day,nice ,fun simple game. However what really got me into it was the outstanding background fluff( especially if you got the RPG books). I’ve still got all my books,and some figures. The Mark Copplestone sculpts we’re the best, a lot we’re dire.
My army were Imperials,with Lutheran’s in the Dark Eden setting,brilliant book that one :)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 25, 2021, 06:31:01 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 08:41:28 PM
(...)
As for Kryomek, I've heard of it quite a few times over the years, but otherwise know very little about it. Is/was it similar to Warzone/VOID/VOR?
(...)

I'll admit I never actually played Kryomek. Still, the very first gaming models I bought were some Kryomek bunkers to use with Micromachines Star Wars toys, and I got a big chunk of the range including the rules in 2020 to do a "retromorph" not-Aliens project. Lots of fun painting the metal figures, less with the resin stuff (moulds showing their age).

I read the rules with much interest, but found them to be incredibly complex, even for 1990s Scifi rules, although the production quality was great. Writing style a bit dry, too, but hinting at a fascinating fluff backbone... Since I have no actual nostalgic reminiscence for them, I would probably use the classic miniatures in conjunction with the Void rules and use suitable Viridian and VASA profiles for the Colonial Marines and Predators and Koralon for the xenomorph threat to play outdoor games, and an adapted form of 1E Spacehulk for indoor crawls.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: NotifyGrout on December 25, 2021, 09:26:04 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 12:38:59 PM
@NotifyGrout:

Thank you for the detailed breakdown of Warzone First Edition.

It's interesting that you mentioned the unit sizes being around 5-6 models, and that armies were 5-6 squads, as the boxed set they put out (in, I'm guessing, Second Edition) with the scores of plastic figures in it seemed to suggest that it was being aimed at units that were around 10 models strong, with perhaps 6-7 units a side. Do you recall what balance was like between factions at all please?

Speaking of miniatures, I thought Prince August was still making and selling these? Or are they only running down old stocks? Or are these a different era of sculpts? If I wanted to play this game, am I basically looking at proxying to get consistent-looking forces? Anvil Industries looks like they might be a decent place to start with for Imperial/Capitol/Bauhaus factions, although I suppose VOID and/or VOR models might also be a decent fit (especially Syntha troops as Cybertronic). What would you use as proxies? :)

Most of this has been covered by Chris already, but there are still a few things I can try to help with:

Prince August bought the remaining stock way back when. What research I was able to find indicated that due to rights for the Mutant Chronicles IP changing hands a couple of times, the molds were destroyed. Sadly, instead of heroic 28mm, when Fantasy Flight got their turn, they went with 54mm...I don't know whose idea it was, and I try not to be negative, but...why? Who thought that was a good idea? Were they trying to go for an Inquisitor vibe, but with prepainted plastic minis ???

As for proxies, Anvil Industry would certainly work, but I don't know how cost-effective it would be. For Void minis, I'd go Syntha for Cybertronic as you said, Viridians for Capitol, and Vasa for Mishima (they have some pan-Southeast-Asian flavored minis).

If you want an old school trench warfare look, these are pretty cool for both Bauhaus and Imperial standard troops: https://cpmodels.co.uk/product-category/28mm-ranges/28mm-sci-fi/trench-warfare/

I tend towards best bang for the buck for normal troops, preferring to spend more on heroes, monsters, and vehicles. So I look at plastic kits for the infantry.

Those should give you the basis for a solid core of proxies, adding models depending on how many of the expansion books you want to use. I would stick to the base book and the Dawn of War supplement, unless you get so far into the game that you decide you really must have vehicles and even more troop options. I went back through the books and felt that the other expansions, while adding a lot more choices, also bogged the game down.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Wachaza on December 25, 2021, 03:54:05 PM
Quote from: NotifyGrout on December 25, 2021, 09:26:04 AM
For Void minis, I'd go Syntha for Cybertronic as you said, Viridians for Capitol, and Vasa for Mishima (they have some pan-Southeast-Asian flavored minis).
Junkers for Bauhaus. IIRC Void started when Target lost/folded the Warzone license so the early Void minis were the next Warzone edition's minis repurposed. The Scottish design studio turned their work on the next edition of warzone into i-kore and Void.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 25, 2021, 05:41:58 PM
Merry Christmas to all, and thanks for the additional replies - I'm glad to have asked these old games now; as I suspected, it seems that they are hidden gems! :)

@ Wachaza:
That's interesting to hear about, as the original VOID models don't look all that more advanced in sculpting style (to me) over the Warzone models. I suppose that the Romanesque stylings of the early Junkers does makes sense for Bauhaus if you were to regard them as being a bit themed towards the old Holy Roman Empire a bit? Viridian as Venus makes more sense to me though, and I suppose I'd have guessed Junkers would be Mars or perhaps Imperial? Cyberton as Syntha seems fairly obvious.

@ Westfalia Chris:
I do seem to remember that it was an alternate universe/parallel world setting where humans ended up coming into contact with the Kryomek aliens, but as I said before, it was a game I knew/know very little about. I may need to look into Kryomek it seems!  :D

Quote from: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 09:20:21 PM
Go for it! Judging by the comments I've received so far on game size and game balance/duration, what's actually holding you back?  ;)
Honestly? Space and a crazy huge backlog lol It's sometimes hard for me to internally justify "more sci humans" you know ?
Well, if they are small squads, you could justify them (and the terrain) for Stargrave? Plus, depending on what models/how you paint them, perhaps you can give Warzone a go with them too? ;)


Thanks again for all the comments folks, I've appreciated everyone's insights so far. If anybody else reading this thread has any experience, please do chime in! Even if it's just to say "I agree with what X person said", it's all helpful to me. Also, since it seems like a few of you played these quite a bit in the past, please feel free to post up photos of your squads and armies for all three games - I'd love to see peoples' forces from back in the day.  8)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on December 28, 2021, 04:32:38 PM
I read Void V1 back in the day, and liked what I read,  but was too tied into 40k to switch systems (I did use some Viridians as Catchans). Warzone v1 and v2 were both systems I was aware of at about the same time - had a taster of v1 rules from a magazine article advertising new units and some additional equipment and decided (rightly or wrongly) that they seemed complicated compared to 40k.
The set that caught my eye back then was Shockforce for its supposedly post apocalypse setting and the excitement of what ammounted to Cadians, skaven in space and ratskins all facing off against each other; but I never got the chance to buy any
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Storm Wolf on December 28, 2021, 04:42:22 PM
Hi I have never played void or warzone, but I have dabbled with Kryomek which has of the best fluff IMHO it was just a shame that the rules were only partially playable.

As I get older retro-gaming in all its forms is to be applauded  :-*

All the best and a early Happy New year

Glen

Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 28, 2021, 06:15:45 PM
Quote from: v_lazy_dragon on December 28, 2021, 04:32:38 PM
The set that caught my eye back then was Shockforce for its supposedly post apocalypse setting and the excitement of what ammounted to Cadians, skaven in space and ratskins all facing off against each other; but I never got the chance to buy any
Shockforce from Demonblade games? I have never heard of it before your post here, and I had to look it up! Seems like it was obscure enough that there's very little info about these days, which is a shame.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: NotifyGrout on December 29, 2021, 06:59:54 AM
Check the Facebook group for WarEngine (membership is not required: https://www.facebook.com/groups/623283044910535/files)

The 2nd Edition rulebook appears to be complete, but the WarEngine ruleset gives the reader an idea of what was to come before the project was abandoned (from what I can tell, the author had to move on to other things) WarEngine appears to be complete rules-wise, but it has zero premade force lists. I think it comes down to ready-to-play vs. a toolkit approach.

I love Warzone 1st, but even now I'd argue that a lot of modern rulesets are better.

Warzone deserves to be remembered for using a d20 and alternating unit activations long before most other miniatures games (at least in the sci-fi or fantasy realms). Similarly, Shockforce/WarEngine deserves recognition for being a sci-fi game that was designed to play fast (even faster than Warzone) and because it was a direct refutation of the "buy everything from us, we are the hobby" attitude of Games Workshop (some things never change  ::)).
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: nandrin on December 29, 2021, 11:10:32 AM
We played a lot of VOR back in the days and had a pretty active gaming group. I love to play the original as well as the free version "No Limits" which is available as download and basically is the same rule set, along with the army builder options which never came out due to FASAs demise.

- Ease of play.
It is a pretty straight forward system. Players alternate activating one unit. Unit coherency must be obeyed, and each figure has action points which can be spend for moving, firing etc. in any order the player wishes to do. It uses d10.

- Variety of units/variety of play within each army.
I think the existing army books for VOR give a pretty good selection of units with different styles of play. 40k like, you have to field some standard units before you can field the elite ones. In No Limits, as the name suggests, you can basically play anything.

- Do you need big squads, or are small 5-6 model squads playable.
Squads usually have 4-10 models, with grunts tending to have more and elite units sometimes only 1-3 models. A 1000P game will consist of 25 - 40 Models.

- Variety of gameplay/replayability.
Replayability is good, especially if you play different scenarios.

Game duration.
- A typical game of 1000 Points will last about 2 hours.

- Differences between the games.
sorry, I never played the other games mentioned.

- Any notable pros/cons.
Cons: It is a dead game, which holds a lot of players back for reasons I never understood, but I am no expert in psychology  :)
Only few scenarios on the market, although the available books are quite entertaining. In No Limits, you have to resist to the urge to build "perfect armies" which is certainly possible for min-max players, but boring to play against.

Pros: It is a really solid rule system with very few uncertainties. I like possibility to customize armies due to the many abilities, weapons and equipment you can choose from.
The minis for VOR are still available, and in No Limts, you can play anything from your collection. I played my Tyranids and Necrons under these rules as well as some of the original FASA stuff. Still own UNA, Growler and Zykhee.
Great opportunities to build vehicles and unique armies which suits exactly your style of play.

Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 05, 2022, 08:50:55 AM
@ nandrin:

Thank you for your review of VOR; I noticed all the books for it are currently on super-sale at RPE, so I bought them all for further research!  ;)

_____________________________


I also acquired most of the VOID books (purple rulebook revision, though I'm going to try and get the Starter Box version too for the scenarios). I did struggle to find a printed copy of the Koralon Forcebook however; was this a limited or digital-only release? It seems to have been released later than the others, and the stuff in it is *quite* different to the starter lists in the purple book, so I'm guessing that maybe it was Urban Mammoth rather than i-Kore?

Finally, I saw Warzone had (apparently) two different editions for the third edition ("Universe Under Siege"):
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/t2QAAOSwiftf~1hb/s-l500.jpg)(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/eaZel3j0wxbyhfg6NbsaTQ__opengraph/img/lv-nwXgeyzkp9uxbdfORvHXOZJg=/fit-in/1200x630/filters:strip_icc()/pic57091.jpg)

Does anybody have any idea what the difference(s) between these two books is please?
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: akanous on January 13, 2022, 06:16:30 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on January 05, 2022, 08:50:55 AM

Finally, I saw Warzone had (apparently) two different editions for the third edition ("Universe Under Siege")

Does anybody have any idea what the difference(s) between these two books is please?

The image on the left was a mock-up or promotional cover Excelsior was using prior to the release of their "Ultimate" edition.  They only ever released one edition of their version and it used the cover shown on the right.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 13, 2022, 07:33:19 AM
Ah, I see, thank you akanous. :)

I also discovered yesterday that the reason I can't find a printed Koralon book for VOID is that there was never apparently a printed version. Which did surprise surprise me a bit, as they did get two pretty complete miniatures releases...
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Malebolgia on January 18, 2022, 11:51:37 AM
Yeah, they released most of the models first and then started doing the army books. So the books didn't offer that much extra...but they were very nice though. Great quality printing, full colour, great art and photos. At that time that was quite special in this hobby.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Keeper Nilbog on January 19, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
I played Warzone in all 3 editions (dropped 2nd as 3rd does it better), and have also played Void, Kyromek and Shockforce.

The Shockforce rules (1ed) came with a build system, so you could "do it yourself", along with around 5 pre built lists for the "Fallen America" setting. These were:-
Corp (basically Imperial Guard)
Gothrats (Skaven with guns - mutated rats)
The Mobs (Gangster - Mafia - Orcs)
Tribal (Amerindians/ratskins)
Deathtec (undead Cowboys)
The Brethren (Good Old Boys/Southern Trailer Pack people).

The rules were simple, and had some elegant mechanisms. Throughout the book were little "history" quotes, such as the French selling weapons to various factions as they found Americans killing each other quite humorous.

The game did have a small figure range (good luck finding any), but the bell tolled for it when GW challenged them over the models for the Orc and Rat factions, as they felt they were to close to their ranges
A second edition was produced, but I'm not sure what happened with it (happily playing 1st).

Warzone (1st and 3rd - universe under fire), can have 5 man squad's for basic troops, though 3rd lists are structured so that you can have 3 times that amount if you want.
Universe under fire (Warzone) is an all in package, rules, equipment, battlefield/command assets, and lists for all the factions, Corporate, Brotherhood, Cartel,  Dark Legion (Cult's and Powers) and Dark Eden. It also has the History of the setting, Corporation and Dark Legion.
Well worth it if you can get a copy (I know there's a web site that has almost all the Warzone books on it (not some of the 2nd force books - always wanted the "Dark Eden" one).
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Malebolgia on January 20, 2022, 10:31:03 AM
Yeah, that Warzone book was insane...so thick and so much content. The layout isn't the best and a lot of graphics were low res, but still, great to own and to read it now and then. I also felt it went back to Mutant Chronicles original story and units after 2nd edition created and changing lots of crappy lore. It felt more like Mutant Chronicles, while Warzone 2nd felt more like a 40K clone to me.
Warzone Resurrection was okay as a game, but the style of art and miniatures never fully grabbed me. Too clean, sterile and modern for the dieselpunk genre. The upcoming Warzone Eternal (https://resnovagames.com/) sounds really promising and I can't wait for it to be released. It sounds like a great mix of oldskool looks, mixed with modern mechanics (designed by Bryan CP Steele, creator of the Dark Age game).
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 20, 2022, 11:13:46 AM
Interesting comments on the editions of Warzone... I may be betraying myself a little here, but:

I did start trying to read a PDF of UWZ, and found it full of typos and confusing references/layouts. Even something like deployment of units (using cards...  :`) seems unnecessarily convoluted. I have also been unable to find a decent hardcopy of this in the UK, and the ones I've seen sold appear to have gone for some eye-watering sums!

WZ1 reminded me a lot of 40kRT, especially the huge number of universal upgrades that could be added to units and characters across all factions, and the detailed and idiosyncratic rules for vehicles. I got the distinct impression that, like RT, it was aimed at 2-3 squads of 4-5 models each, plus a couple of characters. So just above squad-level, but not at platoon level.

WZ2 seemed a lot like the later versions of 40k in terms of size and scope, and whilst I understand the sentiments that it deviated from its origins and tried harder to get some of the 40k market, I still found it appealing for being clearer and for having some better guidance on making themed forces for each faction. Ignoring the two add-on "Forces of..." books, I also appreciated having pretty complete army lists for every faction together in one place (something UWZ also did).

I have just managed find a cheap copy of the hardback Resurrection book, but reading through the PDF version I have already it seems like a decent game with plenty of unit variety. I am not entirely sold on the layout/presentation style (though that could be just the PDF), and I feel that you can just use whatever generation of miniatures you like with these rules - in fact, that's true of any edition of the rules I feel. Perhaps that's just as well too, since I wasn't enormously keen on the models Prodos made for the game - they just lacked something I can't quite put my finger on, and I found them quite expensive in general.

Of the WZ versions available, I'd say that WZ2 probably appeals to me the most as a game, and that if you have some forces for WZ2, then you can always also play some WZ1 as well if you fancy. In any case, if I were to collect some forces to try and play a game - any edition - then I would almost certainly be looking to use the old plastics they did for WZ2 and convert some readily-available figures to suit rather than trying to chase down all the original metals. Ditto the various vehicles and walkers - I would more likely kitbash these from model kits than try and get the originals. I'm sure that would upset some people, but for me there's not too much point in having armies I can't complete or add to, and I would also certainly be getting 3-4 factions to play with (since it's unlikely anybody will collect a force to play against me), which just makes it even harder.

Warzone Eternal sounds interesting, but (1) I already have some Dark Age, and (2) I see its planned to come out via KS...  :? I will definitely wait to see this at retail (if it gets there, of course), and see what it plays like when (if) people do any reviews. New models for WZ might be nice though!
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Seb on January 24, 2022, 12:45:31 PM
I did play a lot of 2ed Warzone (and a bit of the 3rd, the Ultimate Warzone). It was an ace game. Still have unpainted minis :D The Prodos remake did not hit me attractive. I mean, the models were nice, but they lacked the original Warzone vibe for me. I like the heroic and comic style, and the Prodos remake was a bit too clean for me.

Warzone was kinda big in Poland back in the day. Probably due to price (it was easier and cheaper than, say, WFB or 40k, but also due to the fact it was officially translated to Polish.

Vor is a game I never played, but the art by Paul Bonner and minis looked pretty cool. The fluff also sounded interesting. If I'm not mistaken, the guy who did the original VOR was also attempting to reboot the game. It was a few years ago.

VOID, well, what I can say :D I'm really pleased with the fact I managed to acquire a license to develop and produce VOID. So my opinion can be a bit biased. But I like the fast rules and alternative actuation. Plus, the ascetic of the line is still very apeling. At least IMO.

Yes, VOID was produced by the same team as 2ed Warzone, hence the similarities. From my talk with the team, the early sculpts were intended to be used for a new version of Kryomek, but there were some problems in acquiring the rights to it.

Cheers,
Seb

Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 24, 2022, 02:05:46 PM
Hi Seb,

Thanks for stopping by the thread! :)

I agree with your sentiments on the original models for VOID, although as the forces books were published and new units were released, the quality of the sculpting did vary considerably more. I understand that there was actually quite a few models that either saw saw limited or no release, in some cases for new units whereas others were re-sculpts of existing units. It would be great to see some of these, and it might be worth canvassing interest on perhaps trying to get them released? I recently became aware of the existence of a whole range of Koralon models here (https://chadspaint.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/koralons-never-released-models/) for example, which were clearly intended to be released with the new book but sadly never made it to retail.

I also confess to very much liking the new Urban Mammoth sculpts for their VOID spin-off game Urban War. Not all the models are equally good, and you can see the evolution of different sculpts in that range too, but I generally liked the modern sculpting style. Not sure why VASA switched from Japanese/Anime-stylings to Soviet stylings, but there's not all that much to remove if you wanted to de-Sovietise them. I was also very taken with stonecoldlead's version of the Viridians on his blog (http://stonecoldlead.blogspot.com/search/label/Viridian) (sadly, many images are now gone, but there was a big thread documenting his progress here on LAF too).

Given all the advantages of VOID being still in print (both models and books) as wall as being in the UK, this is a game/project I think I'd like to get into.

____________________________________________________________________

I received the VOR books from RPE this weekend, and spent a bit of time going through the army books in particular. I think they have some good ideas and a solid core in them, but it's also pretty clear that the range of models actually released was pretty small. It occurred to me that (1) the old Kryomek and Warzone 1/2 models would likely be a reasonable match to make up a fair few of the missing human units, (2) the reverse is probably also true - the Union and Neo-Sov would suit Warzone's stylings well in particular.

It remains to be seen whether or not this is a game I end up trying to play, but I would most likely proxy forces for it if I did. I am glad I got the books though (even if they do feel a bit cheap in physical quality), and the art in them all is great.

____________________________________________________________________

The Warzone Resurrection book also arrived this weekend, and I had a brief flick through it. It's okay, but like the miniatures, there's something that feels a little "off" about the presentation that I can't quite put my finger on. There's lots of units in the book, including quite a few new ones that I don't remember from WZ1/2/UWZ, but there's surprisingly little new art and photos of models. This is a shame, as I think anybody who is into tabletop wargames is clearly going to be interested seeing the units and models, and these also provide an excellent way to convey the game's setting.

I'm less sure now if I will make an effort to play WR, and might instead try and track down copies of the of WZ1 and WZ2 books instead.

____________________________________________________________________

After discussing these old games here with you all, I can see that several of you have updated your avatars here on LAF to images taken from artwork of the factions in these games, and so I would like to encourage everyone who has some old models for them to dig them out and start a thread with them here on LAF! Even if it's dusting off old models and photographing them, it'd be great to see them all. It would be nice to see Warzone, VOID and VOR all get some love and attention again (and perhaps get a few more discussions going)!  :D
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: eMills on January 24, 2022, 07:05:12 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on January 24, 2022, 02:05:46 PM

____________________________________________________________________

I received the VOR books from RPE this weekend, and spent a bit of time going through the army books in particular. I think they have some good ideas and a solid core in them, but it's also pretty clear that the range of models actually released was pretty small. It occurred to me that (1) the old Kryomek and Warzone 1/2 models would likely be a reasonable match to make up a fair few of the missing human units, (2) the reverse is probably also true - the Union and Neo-Sov would suit Warzone's stylings well in particular.

It remains to be seen whether or not this is a game I end up trying to play, but I would most likely proxy forces for it if I did. I am glad I got the books though (even if they do feel a bit cheap in physical quality), and the art in them all is great.

____________________________________________________________________

VOR was a good game with solid rules and an interesting setting. I had hope when the author tried to revive it, but he was a bit too early for the crowdfunding craze. Plus, he refused to even try to update the model line which was dated, even then. As far as I know he hasn't been heard from in wargaming circles since.

There is a custom force builder in the main book. If I remember right custom forces did not quite stack up to official forces on the tabletop, but weren't that much worse off.

Also, the disappearance of VOR caused a fan ruleset based on it to come about. No Limits can still be found here (https://nolimitswargames.wordpress.com/). I never had a chance to play it but it was highly regarded. It was essentially an expanded version of the custom creation rules, and tweaks to the main rule set. There was a fantasy version created as well, called No Quarter, still available here (https://noquarterwargames.wordpress.com/downloads/).
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on January 24, 2022, 11:02:56 PM
I'm just waiting for Seb to drop the new rules before investing tbh.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 25, 2022, 12:00:09 AM
Quote from: nandrin on December 29, 2021, 11:10:32 AM
We played a lot of VOR back in the days and had a pretty active gaming group. I love to play the original as well as the free version "No Limits" which is available as download and basically is the same rule set, along with the army builder options which never came out due to FASAs demise.

Quote from: eMills on January 24, 2022, 07:05:12 PM
VOR was a good game with solid rules and an interesting setting. Also, the disappearance of VOR caused a fan ruleset based on it to come about. No Limits can still be found here (https://nolimitswargames.wordpress.com/). [/url].

Thank you both - No Limits has been downloaded, and I will look into them.

I also heard that Mike Neilsen tried to revive VOR via crowdfunding, and that the proposal (and the money apparently required up-front) meant it never went ahead. I didn't know about the plan to use the existing model range with the new ruleset, but the existing line seems fairly incomplete to me, and it's honestly a bit disappointing that RPE don't do any squad/starter/bundle deals.



@ jetengine:
Do you mean the squad-sized introduction game VOID Squad Tactics (https://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/VOID---Squad-Tactics-Coming-Next-Year)? Or do you mean a new revision of VOID? The former is simply the main game, but with reduced army composition requirements and tweaked morale for low/single model units as far I can tell, so that you can play games with some 10-15 models a side - in which case the current faction starters are pretty much good as they are (well, perhaps a couple of loose figs in addition, but still), and they come with the core rulebook (and tokens, templates, etc) that you will need for Squad Tactics.

If it's anything more that that, such as new revised edition... I fear that you might be waiting a while!  :?
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on January 25, 2022, 07:27:51 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on January 25, 2022, 12:00:09 AM
Thank you both - No Limits has been downloaded, and I will look into them.

I also heard that Mike Neilsen tried to revive VOR via crowdfunding, and that the proposal (and the money apparently required up-front) meant it never went ahead. I didn't know about the plan to use the existing model range with the new ruleset, but the existing line seems fairly incomplete to me, and it's honestly a bit disappointing that RPE don't do any squad/starter/bundle deals.



@ jetengine:
Do you mean the squad-sized introduction game VOID Squad Tactics (https://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/VOID---Squad-Tactics-Coming-Next-Year)? Or do you mean a new revision of VOID? The former is simply the main game, but with reduced army composition requirements and tweaked morale for low/single model units as far I can tell, so that you can play games with some 10-15 models a side - in which case the current faction starters are pretty much good as they are (well, perhaps a couple of loose figs in addition, but still), and they come with the core rulebook (and tokens, templates, etc) that you will need for Squad Tactics.

If it's anything more that that, such as new revised edition... I fear that you might be waiting a while!  :?

After chatting on FB I was under the impression the new Void starter set would be released this year with a new ruleset attatched.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 25, 2022, 07:53:06 AM
@ jetengine:
Well, the announcement I linked to says you'll also need a copy of the main rules to play Squad Tactics, and the style of game you get with VOID rules using about a dozen minis per side has been somewhat established by Urban War already... So, if you want to get started (especially with a faction that's not Junkers or Viridia) in order to be ready for when the new set comes out, you may as well get stuck in now. I'm happy to be corrected if I misunderstood though! *shrug*
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on January 25, 2022, 01:30:31 PM
 Vor was one of the games i really liked the background to and the factions involved.

 The miniatures range for it is sadly lacking in variety of troop types for each unit with a lot not released for the game.It would have been great to have seen Mike reach the funding level for the New Version but sadly it was not meant to be.

 There were a few new pieces of art work done for it which were really nice.

 There are also several books for the Vor setting with some really good stories in them.Worth tracking down if you are a fan of the setting.

 Growlers were one of my main draws to the game then the Pharon.Still got all of the books and miniatures for it.Not many painted though.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Seb on January 25, 2022, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on January 24, 2022, 02:05:46 PM
Hi Seb,

Thanks for stopping by the thread! :)


Happy to be involved!

The Koralons were moved to the Urban War range, although not releasing them. As a matter of fact, we did manage to find the master mould at Scotia Grendel for them. So I'm sure Robbie will release them at some time in future. The Spider tank was released and is available from the webshop.

Regarding VOID future development.

At the moment, we have two introduction boxes planned.

1) VOID Squad Tactics - with just 5-10 minis per side. This boxed set will have minis and a booklet with Squad Tactics and Quick-Start Rules rules.
2) VOID – Endemion Incident - a new two-player starter set, with two squads per side + hero (all metal miniatures). And it will also include Quick-Start Rules, plus a few bits. It's still under development, but I should have more details soon :)

There are plans for bringing back a big game box with plastic miniatures. But it is quite a big word, and I believe we will need to have a full new edition of rules to go with it together. But I don't want to say too much, as it is too early to share details.

Currently, I'm working on Quick-Start rules and a new forcebook. It will be available for free as a PDF to download. The new forcebook will have an updated version of units profiles. We will start with all the units available in Starter Forces, plus some extras. Then work on the other units. Fill the gaps etc.  ​

Warzone, old love.

Yeah, I think I will maybe dig up some of my 2ed Warzone stuff and start painting it again. Perhaps I will also convince my friend to post some of his progress on his Warzone Imperial.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on January 25, 2022, 02:53:19 PM
Endimon was what I'm thinking of. When that's released I'll buy un. For now I'm drowning in 28mm as is.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on January 25, 2022, 03:48:09 PM
 I am sure that i have some of the last Koralon figures that were released.Just got to find them.

 Great to hear things are moving with Void Seb.How many new sculpts do you have now?
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 25, 2022, 04:34:17 PM
Quote from: manic _miner on January 25, 2022, 01:30:31 PM
It would have been great to have seen Mike reach the funding level for the New Version but sadly it was not meant to be.
Agreed - I note the funding goal was set at $25,000 in January 2011, although I'm not sure if that's actually a lot or not to write, publish, and promote a new edition. Still, that was over 10 years ago, so perhaps it's time for a new attempt? Maybe he could collaborate with a digital sculptor to offer STLs for a new range of figures to download and print/print on license too? Seems like a possible way of updating the miniatures range without having to ship metal models internationally. I think it's hard to sell a game system without at least offering some miniatures in some form (even if it's just a handful for KS or whatever).

Quote from: Seb on January 25, 2022, 02:20:58 PM
Regarding VOID future development.

At the moment, we have two introduction boxes planned.

1) VOID Squad Tactics - with just 5-10 minis per side. This boxed set will have minis and a booklet with Squad Tactics and Quick-Start Rules rules.
2) VOID – Endemion Incident - a new two-player starter set, with two squads per side + hero (all metal miniatures). And it will also include Quick-Start Rules, plus a few bits. It's still under development, but I should have more details soon :)

There are plans for bringing back a big game box with plastic miniatures. But it is quite a big word, and I believe we will need to have a full new edition of rules to go with it together. But I don't want to say too much, as it is too early to share details.

Currently, I'm working on Quick-Start rules and a new forcebook. It will be available for free as a PDF to download. The new forcebook will have an updated version of units profiles. We will start with all the units available in Starter Forces, plus some extras. Then work on the other units. Fill the gaps etc.
Thank you for the clarification! You know, I think this needs to be written up a little and posted on your website/blog so that people can have some idea about what's planned? Lots of curmudgeons like me avoid FB, so if it's not on your website then I/we probably don't/won't know about it. ;)

Quote from: Seb on January 25, 2022, 02:20:58 PM
Warzone, old love.

Yeah, I think I will maybe dig up some of my 2ed Warzone stuff and start painting it again. Perhaps I will also convince my friend to post some of his progress on his Warzone Imperial.
Please do - it'd be great to see!  :D

Quote from: jetengine on January 25, 2022, 02:53:19 PM
For now I'm drowning in 28mm as is.
lol lol Fair enough, I'll let you off then!  ;)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: swiftnick on January 31, 2022, 10:54:56 AM
I bought this old Chronicles magazine from Ebay. Was pleasantly surprised what a quality product it is. Filled with great articles and some amazing drawings. If I had seen this in the 90s I would have been right in there.
Those Chronopia swamp Goblins are pretty cool.
(https://i.imgur.com/pEmfURe.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/CXW3mGZ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Tg3ExhV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LIHISIh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/WGimYpZ.jpg)


Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on January 31, 2022, 11:02:25 AM
 The Chronicles magazines are very good.I think only three were done though,which is a shame.

 Roy Eastland sculpted the Swamp Goblins.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on January 31, 2022, 12:00:44 PM
The Chronicles artwork is pretty damn good, if of the eras aesthetic.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 31, 2022, 12:03:20 PM
There were 12 Chronicles magazines in total, and they can be found as PDFs on the Mutantpedia website. I'm glad they are available, as they were good reading!  :)


Edit: there were 12 Chronicles magazines originally, then it was re-launched, and there were a further 3 issues (numbered 1-3, also called Chronicles) of this new magazine.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on January 31, 2022, 12:18:45 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on January 31, 2022, 12:03:20 PM
There were 12 Chronicles magazines in total, and they can be found as PDFs on the Mutantpedia website. I'm glad they are available, as they were good reading!  :)


Edit: there were 12 Chronicles magazines originally, then it was re-launched, and there were a further 3 issues (numbered 1-3, also called Chronicles) of this new magazine.

 The early Chronicles magazines were first published in the Forge magazine which originally was called Anvil.Or that maybe the other way around.Getting old and forgetting stuff.

 They are also good magazines with some very nice articles in them for some top painters. Michael Immig (spelling probably wrong Mod: FTFY), German guy who has done some great diorama pieces.

 http://leviathanwar.blogspot.com/2018/02/leviathan-work-in-progress.html

 http://leviathanwar.blogspot.com/search/label/Anvil%20Magazine
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: NotifyGrout on January 31, 2022, 03:38:35 PM
I just placed a $150 order to Prince August. As if I don't already have too much to work on as-is.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 31, 2022, 03:52:12 PM
Quote from: NotifyGrout on January 31, 2022, 03:38:35 PM
I just placed a $150 order to Prince August. As if I don't already have too much to work on as-is.
lol lol

Well, please do share your efforts here on LAF when they reach you, as I would love to see your work on them.  :)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on January 31, 2022, 05:58:50 PM
Quote from: NotifyGrout on January 31, 2022, 03:38:35 PM
I just placed a $150 order to Prince August. As if I don't already have too much to work on as-is.

 What have you gone for then?

 So easy to get pulled into yet another project ;).
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 01, 2022, 02:19:17 AM
Alright, alright, thanks to you lot I've just sent an order off to Ral Partha Europe. All the bloody Vor books currently available. A new project log will be a calling.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 01, 2022, 07:46:06 AM
Quote from: jetengine on February 01, 2022, 02:19:17 AM
Alright, alright, thanks to you lot I've just sent an order off to Ral Partha Europe. All the bloody Vor books currently available. A new project log will be a calling.
lol
It's okay, I recently received a delivery some Junkers, Viridians, and Koralon...! ;)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 01, 2022, 09:23:16 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 01, 2022, 07:46:06 AM
lol
It's okay, I recently received a delivery some Junkers, Viridians, and Koralon...! ;)

Just like magic!
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on February 01, 2022, 12:22:04 PM
 Great to hear that lots of people are looking at older games and miniatures ranges.

 Looking forward to seeing what everyone will be working on over the next few weeks.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: NotifyGrout on February 01, 2022, 02:55:38 PM
Quote from: manic _miner on January 31, 2022, 05:58:50 PM
What have you gone for then?

 So easy to get pulled into yet another project ;).

A combination of filling out existing units (never got a Venusian Ranger heavy weapon, for example), more Dark Legion monsters because they are fun, and a couple of new units (never had proper Legionnaires- I always used the ones from my copy of Siege of the Citadel).

Adding those to my recently purchased Razides and Demnogonis Nepharite (I painted the same model in 1999, so I want to compare), I have a lot to do even without all of the other projects (2 Frostgrave crews, a Stargrave crew, a bunch of Infinity models, multiple Wrath of Kings/Saga: Age of Magic armies...lol)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on February 01, 2022, 04:26:59 PM
 You could use your Warzone figures in other game systems.

 Just seen Swiftnick's one using Warzone and other miniatures in the Sci-Fi Skirmish section.

 Had my Joan of Arc KS stuff arrive Today.Three boxes of it got delivered.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: sir_shvantselot on February 01, 2022, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 01, 2022, 07:46:06 AM
lol
It's okay, I recently received a delivery some Junkers, Viridians, and Koralon...! ;)

The smaller first ed ones now with Seb Games or the chunkier later ones on Scotia Grendel? Seb looks to be giving it some new life. Post pics even if undercoated minis so we can see :)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 01, 2022, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: sir_shvantselot on February 01, 2022, 09:04:52 PM
The smaller first ed ones now with Seb Games or the chunkier later ones on Scotia Grendel? Seb looks to be giving it some new life. Post pics even if undercoated minis so we can see :)
I got some of both, but mostly Scotia. The sizes and styles mix better than I thought they would actually, and since neither is a complete range for any faction (except maybe the Forcebook Koralon), I figured that I'd mix and match between them.

Whilst most of the models I received (Seb's stuff in particular) is all well cast, some of the models and parts (things like shields and backpacks especially) are from extremely rough/worn moulds, so there's going to be some reasonable work required before the models are ready for priming.

So far no vehicles though, as I thought they might be unbalanced in smaller forces. Still, lots to get on with in the meantime, so it might be a little while before I have any real progress to speak of! :)

Quote from: manic _miner on February 01, 2022, 04:26:59 PM
You could use your Warzone figures in other game systems.
I think that looking at some of the models in these three game systems, that's definitely a good possibility. I think new Scotia Viridians could be decent as Bauhaus, and classic Seb Viridians would be reasonable as Capitol. I think any Viridians and/or Capitol are a good fit for VOR Union. Syntha and Cybertronic should be easy swaps too. Others can get a bit trickier though, but something like a mix of Imperial and Dark Legion would work well enough for VOR Neo-Sovs.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 01, 2022, 11:56:41 PM
Ngl, as a One page rules guy any of these lads gets double time. I just need to make their army list lol
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 04, 2022, 11:04:50 AM
Thread has been created, let the retro madness begin!

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=135393.0
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: robh on February 04, 2022, 11:46:39 AM
I am happy to see these games getting some love; and relieved you guys are doing it not me as I have far too many projects already  ::)

I lost virtually all my old game images a few years ago (storing them on a corrupt stick drive) but do still have this one. Vor Growler in classic Orange.  Image captured way back in the pre digital age when your only access to instant images was to put the figure on a flatbed scanner.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/54/5822-040222113442.jpeg)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 04, 2022, 11:53:14 AM
Quote from: robh on February 04, 2022, 11:46:39 AM
I am happy to see these games getting some love; and relieved you guys are doing it not me as I have far too many projects already  ::)

I lost virtually all my old game images a few years ago (storing them on a corrupt stick drive) but do still have this one. Vor Growler in classic Orange.  Image captured way back in the pre digital age when your only access to instant images was to put the figure on a flatbed scanner.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/54/5822-040222113442.jpeg)

Looks marvellous, you (unlike Fasa) know how to paint orange.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: robh on February 04, 2022, 01:43:24 PM
 lol

The ones on the box art did look a bit "shiny" didn't they. Kind of like giant gummy bears.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 04, 2022, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: jetengine on February 04, 2022, 11:04:50 AM
Thread has been created, let the retro madness begin!

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=135393.0
Good man - I'll be following with interest! ;)

Quote from: robh on February 04, 2022, 11:46:39 AM
Image captured way back in the pre digital age when your only access to instant images was to put the figure on a flatbed scanner.
Ah yes, I remember doing this too. Funnily enough, I was reminiscing about exactly this a couple of weeks back with a friend, as some models were just impossible to "scan" like that (even using a box)! :P

Anyway, it's a great old model, and the paintjob looks very good to me - I also prefer yours to the official version. I'm glad you still have some of the pictures around (I assume the models have moved on...?) :)

Quote from: robh on February 04, 2022, 11:46:39 AM
I am happy to see these games getting some love; and relieved you guys are doing it not me as I have far too many projects already  ::)
Pfft, you should just jump right in - the water's lovely! ;)  lol
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 04, 2022, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: robh on February 04, 2022, 01:43:24 PM
lol

The ones on the box art did look a bit "shiny" didn't they. Kind of like giant gummy bears.

Very much so, I'm surprised they didnt try to follow the box art.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on February 04, 2022, 04:10:17 PM
 The box art painting is amazing.One of the things that drew me to the game.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: robh on February 04, 2022, 04:46:34 PM
Quote
"....I'm glad you still have some of the pictures around (I assume the models have moved on...?) :)

Yes long gone (Union, Zykhee and Growlers to ebay). All the VOID stayed with the school club it was supplied for.

Quote
, you should just jump right in - the water's lovely! ;)  lol
Thanks but I have enough with Cell's 1999 and Rackham's Hybrid/Nemesis to paddle in.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on February 04, 2022, 04:52:22 PM
 Still got the Hybrid and Nemesis box sets.Another game i did not get around to play.Rackham had some great miniatures in its range.Still got some of them too and the magazine they did was one of the best.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: voltan on February 04, 2022, 09:26:30 PM
Ugh, this thread has had me digging out my old Void stuff, so many sandrunners no idea what the plan was, and the paintjobs of what I did get done hasn't aged well over the past two decades. I don't need any more distractions from my BSC entry. Though I did find a Koralon hydra that I'd forgotten about, it's a tempting prospect for the weekend.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Sir_Theo on February 04, 2022, 09:54:27 PM
Yes it also had me.downloading and reading the rules for Void. A game I've always been aware of but never played- looks fun! I almost picked up a couple of starter sets from Scotia Grendel  ;)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 04, 2022, 09:59:07 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on February 04, 2022, 09:54:27 PM
Yes it also had me.downloading and reading the rules for Void. A game I've always been aware of but never played- looks fun! I almost picked up a couple of starter sets from Scotia Grendel  ;)

It's coming back in a big way!
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Hoarfrost on February 05, 2022, 10:28:46 PM
God, this thread takes me back...

Bought my first box of Viridian Marines to expand on my Trinity:Battleground armies (now how's that for an obscure 90s miniature game reference?) since I liked the clean, uncluttered style of the minis. A couple years later, and I'd been doing VOID tournaments, been a playtester for the fabled 4-in-1 sourcebook, wrote half of the Guxiss campaign and a shovelful of scenarios for Urban War... 8)

VOID's still dear to my heart, and any other year I get the silly idea of going back to the 4in1 files and fix balance once and for all...  o_o Still have untold amounts of bare lead (and plastic) for all the factions, plus some sizeable armies.

Re: the original post, as others have mentioned already the core rules for VOID were solid, if a little uninspired, and played fast. Presentation in the old "purple" rulebook was a bit sparse, with the VOID 1.1 rulebook (in the boxed set) being much nicer. Most armies I'd seen went for minimal-sized units to bank on a big number of activations - most squads were 3-4 grunts plus a special weapon and a sergeant. Template weapons were king, and were frequently maximised in army builds. 1000pts could well be done in about 90mins. Balance was a bit off - Syntha dominated among the human factions due to their high firepower, but Koralon were even worse due to the teleportation shenanigans they could pull off. VASA and Viridians were midfielders, with Junkers definitively being on the lower end of the power spectrum. The army books offered a nice variety of units, but the points values were off, meaning that some units were overpriced and rarely saw use outside of casual games. The 4in1 sourcebook was meant to adress points values and rebalance all the human factions, but - to the best of my recollection - never got finished.

(As an aside, there was a printed version of the German Translation of the Koralon forcebook - I still got a copy. Spiralbound, A5, full colour)

(As a further aside, @Torben: did we meet at the VOID tournament at ChopCon 2004/2005-ish? Long time no see!)

I dipped my toes into UWZ (since I was a big fan of Chronopia, Targets's Fantasy game, even going so far as to writing soppy eulogies (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/minis-a-canticle-for-chronopia.226976/)). However, the guy I got into UWZ with immediately went for ultra-competitive Bauhaus Vulcan Battlesuit spam lists that I never found a counter against with my fluffy Capitol, so that went downhill fast (was a sore winner to boot, that guy...). Liked what Excelsior was going for with the rulebook, but man - presentation was a hot mess. Plus, it was full of snide remarks about the original Target crew - seems like there was a lot of bitterness in the Warzone fandom about Target's demise back then...  ::)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: swiftnick on February 17, 2022, 04:46:35 PM
Just a heads up there is currently a flash sale on the warzone figures on the Prince August site. Finishes tomorrow!
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on February 18, 2022, 12:06:03 AM
Quote from: swiftnick on February 17, 2022, 04:46:35 PM
Just a heads up there is currently a flash sale on the warzone figures on the Prince August site. Finishes tomorrow!

 Looks like they are running low on a lot of the range now.Not too much left unless you want to do skirmish games that is.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 18, 2022, 09:31:49 AM
Quote from: swiftnick on February 17, 2022, 04:46:35 PM
Just a heads up there is currently a flash sale on the warzone figures on the Prince August site. Finishes tomorrow!

Glad I'm focusing on Vor and Void!
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 21, 2022, 10:53:48 PM
Whilst my thread is focusing on Vor, I recently picked up some Void minis and they're lovely!
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: manic _miner on February 21, 2022, 11:02:19 PM
 They are very nice figures which look even better with some paint on them.Nice work on these.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 22, 2022, 12:43:02 AM
Quote from: jetengine on February 21, 2022, 10:53:48 PM
Whilst my thread is focusing on Vor, I recently picked up some Void minis and they're lovely!

Nice! I take it these came painted, or am I wrong and these are your work? :)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 22, 2022, 08:34:15 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 22, 2022, 12:43:02 AM
Nice! I take it these came painted, or am I wrong and these are your work? :)

My work, they were bought new from Seb Games
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 22, 2022, 10:16:57 AM
Wow, that is fast work, well done!  :o
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: jetengine on February 22, 2022, 11:49:53 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 22, 2022, 10:16:57 AM
Wow, that is fast work, well done!  :o

Thanks, the secret (as always) is contrast paints lol
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Torben on July 18, 2022, 04:46:59 AM
Quote from: Hoarfrost on February 05, 2022, 10:28:46 PM
(As a further aside, @Torben: did we meet at the VOID tournament at ChopCon 2004/2005-ish? Long time no see!)

Good lord, yes we did! Long time no see indeed... especially since I didn't see your post here until now! :D
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: Daeothar on July 19, 2022, 09:40:21 AM
I recently got hold of a cheap, near mint copy of Blood Berets and last night, we set it up and we played a game. In fact it was the first of the introductory campaign.

It was a rescue mission, where the Blood Berets had to infiltrate a cave system to find and free a Corporation VIP from the forces of the Dark Legion. The Berets had a field day, clearing out the undead legionaires piecemeal and they were closing in on the VIP when a Nefarite emerged, and basically tabled them in a matter of a couple of turns.

Victory (narrow as it was) to the Dark legion.

Was it a great game? Not particularly, but we used only basic rules, no equipment, and we might have done some things wrong, but I had a good time at least (the Voivod not as much; he played the Blood Berets :D ).

The mechanic where the terrain tiles were revealed as the Blood Berets moved along was pretty smart, as was the staging board, where I could move my blips around between board elements. The combat reminded us of Space Crusade and was fairly simple, even though it used a D20 system and reversible cards for each miniature to show their wounds and reduced stats when hit once.

There were a lot of extra tokens which we did not get to use, such as boobytraps, jams etc; like I said, we only used the basic rules.

I can understand Voivod's reluctance to play this game again, but I liked it for what it is. I can see me playing this with my daughter, as it is nice and simple and pretty much a product of its time (the nineties).

I reckon it was launched as Warzone's answer to 40K's Space Crusade; it has the same depth of play (possibly more, when all advanced rules are used), similarly sized playing field (roughly) and very familiar equipment cards. Also; it has cards for an entirely different set of miniatures not included in the box, so there is a definite expandibility and link with Warzone 'proper'.

The minis are exaggerated plastics with gloriously overdone nineties shoulderpads, but they should paint up nicely. I might use my newly acquired Speed Paints on these guys, just to see how they work; it's not a big project after all.

All in all, lsat night made me curious about playing an actual game of Warzone eventually... :)
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: eilif on July 30, 2022, 01:19:41 AM
This is a great thread. I've got about 50 Junkers Legionaries, some sandrunners and a buggy painted up and at least as much unpainted.   Never actually played Void 1.1, but I just liked the Junkers faction allot.

Has anyone tried playing any of these old games with the Grimdark Future rules? My son and I are enjoying them with my old 40k figs. However, there's so many factions available that you can probably find an analogue for any unit in Void, Warzone, Vor, etc.  I think Junkers would be a good analogue for Orks.

If anyone is looking for Warzone 2nd edition or Resurrection, I think I've got rulebooks I'd be willing to part with.

Lastly, anyone ever play Shockforce (Warengine)? It was another contemporary of the games discussed here, and also aimed at platoon level play.  Still a favorite of mine as a ruleset even if the figures have been unavailable ever since Megaminis folded.  Fast play, easy to adapt, and still available on wargames Vault.
Title: Re: VOID, Warzone, VOR the Maelstrom... Who's played them?
Post by: robh on July 30, 2022, 12:15:17 PM
If anyone is interested the entire 18 book Mutant Chronicles RPG catalogue (all rules, all sourcebooks, all campaigns) is available in the DriveThru pdf sale for less than $5.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/186331/Mutant-Chronicles-PDF-Lovers-Definitive-Collection

Also on the Modiphius site but for a few $ more.