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Miniatures Adventure => Post-Apocalyptic Tales => Topic started by: Grumpy Gnome on January 08, 2022, 03:43:59 PM
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With all the recent publicity around Five Parsecs from Home and Five Leagues from the Borderlands the post-apoc game Five Klicks from the Zone has come to my attention.
What are the current opinions on it, say in comparison to games like Last Days, Zona Alfa and This is Not a Test?
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Not really easy to compare because "Five xxx..." rules are solo games whereas the others are player vs. player. I like the campaign system which is very extensive and use a lot of the ideas for other games like the mentioned ones.
I don´t like solo play much, but if I would, this would be one of my favourites.
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Solo is going to be my preferred option as Mrs. GG does not like post-apoc.
The narrative building campaign system of the other 5xxx series is what caught my attention. However I am curious if 5 Klicks is going to be as well supported as the other 5xxx series games as well as how polished it already is at this stage.
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New one to me, sounds like its worth a look
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I'm a solo gamer 90% of the time. 5 Klicks is my favorite post-apoc engine for playing games because of the elements already listed. The "5 Units of Distance" series have some meaningful and useful interlude events that explain all the things that go on in the world between tabletop games. These can be as simple as some gained equipment to a larger world event that could spawn a particular mission.
The 5K series has expansions that work as unlockable quests. There is no need to buy these expansions, but they unlock particular enemy types, unique loot only found in that area, and generally add some more flavor. Each expansion (Factory, Skull Collector, and Hazy Cave) area is meant to be run a finite number of times before the expansion is exhausted and the location is tapped out. It reminds me of Fallout 3 DLC where you enter an area like the Pitt, do what you came to do, and then that side quest is over. Other expansions are universally applied to all games and simply add some new rules, or even something like wasteland critters as companions.
I have a thread that walks through my own 5K campaign from the creation of my team through a few battle reports and walks through everything from terrain layout, some in-game rolls of the dice and outcomes, and all of the after-action moves. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/post_apoc_wargames/homer-run-in-five-klicks-t6226.html (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/post_apoc_wargames/homer-run-in-five-klicks-t6226.html)
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Thanks for the information and link mate, I will go have a look now.
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15" range for a Sniper rifle seems a little odd but I like the settlement activity idea
might try and work that into my ZA gaming
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New one on me, thanks for bringing it to my attention. I can see it being bought in the not too distant future (so much for No Spend January regarding hobby spend ;D)
I just had a quick scan of a review - link (https://gundobadgames.blogspot.com/2020/03/review-five-klicks-from-zone-ch-1-post.html). The final recommendation section is worth reading, as he covers who should, and who should not, get the game, in his opinion.
edited to correct the type of January I'm trying to refrain from lol
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15" range for a Sniper rifle seems a little odd but I like the settlement activity idea
might try and work that into my ZA gaming
Hunting rifle and military rifle are 15" but Sharp Shooter's rifle is listed at 18" in the basic rules. This effectively lets a sniper-type character hit anything on a basic 3x3' board if they are standing in the middle. It also covers half of the table (in essence) from the deployment zone. That said, I rarely set up maps that have long lines of sight so I'm not sure I've ever run into a situation where being able to shoot further than 12" ever mattered.
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Those ranges are something I would have to adjust with house rules. Such short ranges seem all the rage with skirmish games but seems off to me when it comes to modern firearms combat.
You AAR‘s are entertaining mate. Slowly working my way through them. The comic book format is brilliant. I really like your wasteland trader model as well, clever.
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Those ranges are something I would have to adjust with house rules. Such short ranges seem all the rage with skirmish games but seems off to me when it comes to modern firearms combat.
You AAR‘s are entertaining mate. Slowly working my way through them. The comic book format is brilliant. I really like your wasteland trader model as well, clever.
Well, I think of it as a way to try and explain the differences between a handgun and a sniper rifle. Truthfully, on the average tabletop in 28mm scale, every weapon would be able to shoot the full length of the table with little trouble. I wrote up a rather long post at one point which discussed the physics involved in modern firearms and talked about effective tabletop scale ranges, but it is fair enough to simply say that even a handgun would be effective (accurate and lethal) out to several tabletops' worth of terrain. Rifles more so, and a large caliber rifle would have the effect of something like off-table artillery support.
That is all hard to represent on a table. It is also difficult to describe the damage capacity difference between a .44 and 5.56 bullet at close range. 12" would be a bit less than 60 feet. I think it is fair to say that few combatants want to be that close to someone shooting at them. In the ACW, average engagement distances were closer to 60 yards, and that "closeness" was thought to be part of the staggering casualty numbers. That 60-yard mark is roughly a 36x36" table, right (28mm scale, roughly)? So this is "close" in civil war times, with inferior weapons, comparatively. If anything this is part of the argument for 15mm or smaller gaming. It comes close to doubling the tabletop ranges, which might feel better.
In the apocalypse, I assume that some part of the limitation is simply poorly maintained weapons. 5k does have a mechanism for gaming jammed and unusable weapons that I like. But the range piece may more aptly describe sights that aren't true, barrels that aren't true, or a combo of both... and garbage self-loaded rounds. That alone could be a little like firing a Wiffle ball and not a baseball! lol
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My problem with the short firearms ranges in many games is that it creates an atmosphere much like an airsoft game where folks move around in the open if they feel they are outside “max range”.
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I think the short ranges of firearms are part of making a game challenging and entertaining, and not a simulation of reality. I think of tabletop games as action films, that helps a lot! :D
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My problem with the short firearms ranges in many games is that it creates an atmosphere much like an airsoft game where folks move around in the open if they feel they are outside “max range”.
Oh, well that is easy for 5k. There are very rare situations where enemy AI leaves them in the open. Some enemies will charge and ignore cover, but more often they will advance, or hold, in cover. Enemy AI rules are pretty easy to follow and they make sense or have made sense to me as I've been playing. Maybe there are some situations where I don't think an enemy would do something and I'll just alter the action. It is just me playing solo after all.
Again, I think that the max range rarely factors in when I play because I like terrain density. There might be the occasional long sightline, but mostly it is urban combat in claustrophobic alleys and buildings. I also dislike having 2-3 rounds of gaming where I'm just pushing figures around with no action, so I tend to go a little smaller on the table size (2x2 being most prevalent) and 5k has a mechanism by which there might be a surprise enemy spawn on the table which means even on an open table you could end up being face to face with some enemies waiting in ambush.
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I like a dense 2X2 table too
just wondering what the benifit of a SR over an assault rifle is if the range is the same?
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The great part about playing solo is that you can change/bend rules to your liking. If you don't like the short maximum range, I would suggest using a range system similar to Spectre Operations. In those rules, you use range intervals. So, the weapon may have 6" range intervals and then have no penalty in the first interval, +1 at 6"-12", +2 at 12"-18", and so on.
This is a little more realistic and doesn't take too much time to figure out. It also really forces people to think about walking in the open when you've got bullets/lasers flying around!
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I like 5P very much, I will have to get 5K. I am very much a solo gamer and been wanting to play a P.A. a game based on an old book series "The Guardians"
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51NQRlmhB6L.SX316.SY480._SL500_.jpg)
The main premise of the series is, that a specialized team based out of secret US base are to go out and recover top Scientists, Engineers and so forth. The list of these people to recover is cell based the president has the first three names those named each have a list of three additional name so 1 becomes 3 and 3 becomes 9. The problem is the president didn't make it. So, by aid of computers at the base they have come up with their own list. So now are these names on the original the list? Are they still alive? Are they still located at their last known location? What are they going to face as they venture forward to recover these individuals on their new list? What are they going to encounter on their return trip? Can they get these people back to their secret base alive?
So yes, I think this would be great game to play out! Make a US map or one of what country you live in and divided into a 20D or large Dice number. Roll the D20 to see where on the map you have to go from your base location and any sections of your D20 map you have to cross are the number of game session you have to play out getting to that location to include encounters in that location and the numbers you have to play out getting back. So, you may plot out your travels to minimize the number of encounters and looking at your map and think of things you may have to cross along the way, like major rivers are the bridges still there? Are these bridges being controlled by some Gang or Militia?
Yeah, I have been thinking about this kind of scenarios for a long time.
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Wow! That brings back some memories! Ha! I recall a lot of writing about specifics on the vehicles (Air Force Security armored cars?) and each of the team members being from a different branch… with the Navy guy surprisingly not being a SEAL. Am I remembering that right? Writing style kind of along the lines of the Mack Bolan books?
I do not remember enough of the books but from what you have said and what little I remember…. Yeah that would be a great premise to post-apoc game.
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I like 5P very much, I will have to get 5K. I am very much a solo gamer and been wanting to play a P.A. a game based on an old book series "The Guardians"
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51NQRlmhB6L.SX316.SY480._SL500_.jpg)
The main premise of the series is, that a specialized team based out of secret US base are to go out and recover top Scientists, Engineers and so forth. The list of these people to recover is cell based the president has the first three names those named each have a list of three additional name so 1 becomes 3 and 3 becomes 9. The problem is the president didn't make it. So, by aid of computers at the base they have come up with their own list. So now are these names on the original the list? Are they still alive? Are they still located at their last known location? What are they going to face as they venture forward to recover these individuals on their new list? What are they going to encounter on their return trip? Can they get these people back to their secret base alive?
So yes, I think this would be great game to play out! Make a US map or one of what country you live in and divided into a 20D or large Dice number. Roll the D20 to see where on the map you have to go from your base location and any sections of your D20 map you have to cross are the number of game session you have to play out getting to that location to include encounters in that location and the numbers you have to play out getting back. So, you may plot out your travels to minimize the number of encounters and looking at your map and think of things you may have to cross along the way, like major rivers are the bridges still there? Are these bridges being controlled by some Gang or Militia?
Yeah, I have been thinking about this kind of scenarios for a long time.
Thats a great concept of a campaign you could use almost any sysyem to play out
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The great part about playing solo is that you can change/bend rules to your liking. If you don't like the short maximum range, I would suggest using a range system similar to Spectre Operations. In those rules, you use range intervals. So, the weapon may have 6" range intervals and then have no penalty in the first interval, +1 at 6"-12", +2 at 12"-18", and so on.
This is a little more realistic and doesn't take too much time to figure out. It also really forces people to think about walking in the open when you've got bullets/lasers flying around!
That is a sound option
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The great part about playing solo is that you can change/bend rules to your liking. If you don't like the short maximum range, I would suggest using a range system similar to Spectre Operations. In those rules, you use range intervals. So, the weapon may have 6" range intervals and then have no penalty in the first interval, +1 at 6"-12", +2 at 12"-18", and so on.
This is a little more realistic and doesn't take too much time to figure out. It also really forces people to think about walking in the open when you've got bullets/lasers flying around!
Sellswords and Spellslingers solo fantasy game does similar with a penalty to your shoot for every extra 2 inches above a certain limit- so the weapon works fine but your ability to be accurate decreases. There are also positive modifiers based on your skill with the weapon and if you choose to use an extra action to aim.
I changed the weapon limits when I converted the game to sci fi scenarios.
Works well.
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Wow! That brings back some memories! Ha! I recall a lot of writing about specifics on the vehicles (Air Force Security armored cars?) and each of the team members being from a different branch… with the Navy guy surprisingly not being a SEAL. Am I remembering that right? Writing style kind of along the lines of the Mack Bolan books?
I do not remember enough of the books but from what you have said and what little I remember…. Yeah that would be a great premise to post-apoc game.
Yes, those are the ones, I love that series. Lost my whole set many years ago and working to recover the whole set to re-read them all again. Yes, I think it would great to play this out. I like the idea of a greater mission rather than trying to hunt down supplies. It would make your team a larger target for their supplies.
I would want to use two vehicles instead of the one in the books and expand the team from 4, to a large 8-man group, technically 12, leaving a 2-man crew in each vehicle, (driver and gunner). the vehicles would act out as single players. At the end of each game, all the after actions would then be divided by all 12.
Anyhow I just think it would be a lot of fun.
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Yes, those are the ones, I love that series. Lost my whole set many years ago and working to recover the whole set to re-read them all again. Yes, I think it would great to play this out. I like the idea of a greater mission rather than trying to hunt down supplies. It would make your team a larger target for their supplies.
I would want to use two vehicles instead of the one in the books and expand the team from 4, to a large 8-man group, technically 12, leaving a 2-man crew in each vehicle, (driver and gunner). the vehicles would act out as single players. At the end of each game, all the after actions would then be divided by all 12.
Anyhow I just think it would be a lot of fun.
Two vehicles and a larger team sounds good. I agree, the greater mission has a certain appeal to it over just scrounging.
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I don't want to give too much of the rules away here, but a few things to note:
1) Range may be extended by 4" if the character chooses to not move in a turn.
2) Characters may shoot FURTHER than the max range, but only hit on a natural 6 regardless of skill modifiers, etc.
3) The target number (roll above) does adjust if the target is within 8" (easiest to hit) beyond 8" but within range, and then target in cover (hardest to hit) and target beyond range (natural 6 to hit without modifiers)
4) Natural 1's result in an enemy being pinned, though they are rarely also hit when this occurs. The pinned mechanism has been really fun as it has allowed my team to pin a target in cover and then flank it for the kill, and it has caused me to "lose" an objective as my team gets pinned trying to storm down a hallway and can never get themselves to push forward.
Brawling combat is also pretty awesome as it isn't the same combat mechanism as shooting. You can get into a situation where the attacker takes damage, the two fighters are knocked apart, and even where multiple hits occur. It can be a bit more swingy in this way, but also creates some unique benefit as brawls can be very lethal and quick.
As for the advantage of a hunting/sharpshooter's rifle over a military rifle? Penetration. Penetration reduces the ability of armor to eliminate the damage from a successful hit. So, the range is only one factor to consider. What the bullet does when it gets there is something else. Sharp Shooter's rifle has the range and penetration of the hunting rifle, but also adds one damage (d6+1).
Ultimately, you would really need to read through how combat works. The sequence for ranged combat is something like this:
1. Did the attack hit? If Yes...
2. Does the target have armor? If Yes, successful armor roll to eliminate the incoming damage. (armor 1 means you would need to roll a 1 on D6 to eliminate damage, 2 means 1-2 on D6, etc)
3. Roll damage. Did damage exceed the target's toughness score? If yes = Casualty. If equal = wound (2nd wound = unconscious). If No, the target is staggered.
The rules do include both a detailed explanation of how this all works and a summary sheet that can give you the flow of things in a compact manner. I primarily use a handful of summary sheets to get through games.
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Ah, that sounds much better.
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Ah, that sounds much better.
Yes. The talk about range is only part of the weapon stats. Maybe an important first stat, but the weapons do all differentiate themselves by way of a number of stats, and then even some characteristics like multiple shots, area effects, greater tendency to break/jam, etc.