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Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Kelroy was here on September 29, 2009, 10:24:34 PM
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Hi all, I thought I'd post some pics of my French forces as they prepare to invade Dahomey. They're Dixon figures, 25mm. The French are finished, now I'm starting on the Dahomeans. Come take a look.
They're at:
http://kelroywashere.blogspot.com/ (http://kelroywashere.blogspot.com/)
I tried linking to the blog images directly here, but it didn't like it.
Thanks for looking.
K.C.
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Superb work. "I can´t believe it´s not butter... err.. it´s actually Dixon!" ;)
Those look very good. I particularly like the bearers.
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Very nice!!
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Superb work. "I can´t believe it´s not butter... err.. it´s actually Dixon!" ;)
Those look very good. I particularly like the bearers.
Not sure about the bearers but I believe the French were sculpted by Mike Owen.
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Ohh very nice, lovely paint job. I bought the Dahomey collection and some books on the conflict last year but all I have finished is the bearers, for some reason I struggled painting the french troops but your figures make we want to go back and get them going again.
Cheers
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Nicely done!
THANKS!
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Ohh very nice, lovely paint job. I bought the Dahomey collection and some books on the conflict last year but all I have finished is the bearers, for some reason I struggled painting the french troops but your figures make we want to go back and get them going again.
Cheers
Thanks. I'd be interested in knowing what books you bought, as I struggled to find sufficient information to know how to paint them. (For me, that's half the fun, finding out "history stuff.") I'm fairly confident my paint job is [mostly] historically accurate, but you never know.
Everyone else, thanks for the kind words.
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Great work. I hope we get to see these lads in action.
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I have always been fasinated with the kingdom of Dahomey. Had a large army when we still played Imperialism. It is just sitting around in a box. Haven't felt motivated to remount them for sword & the flame they are small 25s/ large 20s. Everything else I have is 28mm.
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Kelroy, are you familiar with this miniature?
(http://www.fighting15sshop.co.uk/ekmps/shops/fighting15s/images/100vic12.jpg)
It's a Victoria Lamb mini sold through Eureka. She is a very good sculptor and the miniature should fit right into your Dahomey scenario.
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Great stuff, I really like the Tirailleurs :)
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oh vary nice paint ups, I dont really know much about that campainge but it looks intresting.
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Very nice. Actually Dixon do make some nice stuff, it's not all pumpkin headed monsters. Th Mark Copplestone League of Augsburg Stuff in particular is excellent.
The sure way to tell if they are Mike 'Tiny Tootsies' Owen sculpts is to look at the feet. If they look like the bound feet of a 19th century Chinese lady or those of a child grafted onto an adult's body, chances are they are by Mr Owen. It's the hallmark of all the stuff he has done for Brigade at any rate.
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Kelroy, are you familiar with this miniature?
[snip photo]
It's a Victoria Lamb mini sold through Eureka. She is a very good sculptor and the miniature should fit right into your Dahomey scenario.
I have not seen that one before; it's very nice. I am familiar with Eureka though, so I'll have to take a look. I'm probably going to need to supplement some officers and/or other ranks in order to fill out my force for the rules I want to use. I'm not sure I can stand painting more Dixon right now, so I might use someone else.
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Thanks. I'd be interested in knowing what books you bought, as I struggled to find sufficient information to know how to paint them. (For me, that's half the fun, finding out "history stuff.") I'm fairly confident my paint job is [mostly] historically accurate, but you never know.
I will have a look tonight, my memory might be failing ::) , I know I bought a book called Amazons of Black Sparta , I think a lot of the other info was taken off the web, there was definately a article reprinted from a wargaming magazine which I expect you have already found. I also seem to remember there being a lot of reprints on Amazon and ebay
depicting scenes from the conflict. I do remember spending hours researching, certainly a lot more than painting ! But as you say thats part of the fun
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Very nice period and the DIXON figures are beautiful.
Now the bad thing. I hate to tell you that but the tirailleurs uniforms are wrong. You painted them as turcos also known as tirailleurs algériens recruited amongst north africans. Senegalese had a dark blue uniform.
(http://fotoforum.fr/photos/2009/10/04.11.jpg) (http://fotoforum.fr)
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Very nice period and the DIXON figures are beautiful.
Now the bad thing. I hate to tell you that but the tirailleurs uniforms are wrong. You painted them as turcos also known as tirailleurs algériens recruited amongst north africans. Senegalese had a dark blue uniform.
I disagree. It is very difficult to find color images to check against, but I also don't trust some random image from the internet. Old color plates fade and/or change color over time, plus the color presented on my monitor may not be the same on someone else's.
Also remember that uniforms and their colors changed from year to year. What year is that picture from that you use as illustration? It can make a difference.
My main source of information for these uniforms is "Colonial Armies: Africa 1850-1918" by Peter Abbott, published by Foundry Books in 2006. While it unfortunately lacks any color images, it does have detailed descriptive text to describe uniforms. In regards to the Tirailleurs Sénégalais, he writes, "[they] continued to wear the 1856 Zouave-style veste, gilet, and serual, in royal navy piped with yellow, together with a red sash and a red fez with a white turban. ... Undress and field dress consisted of the 1868 Tirailleur paletot (the blue, single-breasted collarless jacket with four buttons and yellow cuff chevrons and collar edging) and off-white serual, worn with long white gaiters and black shoes (the latter in theory only; in practice the Tirailleurs normally marched barefoot). In 1873 an attempt was made to abolish the Zouave-pattern full dress and replace it with the 1868 paletot, blue Western-style trousers piped with yellow, and a fez without a turban. This measure proved unpopular, and the tenue orientale was restored in 1876. … In full dress native officers wore the same dress as those of the Tirailleur Algériens (light blue with elaborate gold braiding on the veste, gilet, and serual, red fez and white turban, and calf-length black boots), though this was modified to a plain veste, plain white trousers, and a white helmet in the field. White officers and NCOs wore normal Marine uniforms, while red sashes occasionally continued to make their appearance above the paletot.
“In 1889 the Tirailleurs’ Zouave-pattern uniform was finally abolished except for their indigenous officers. The rank and file now wore the 1868 paletot with calf-length, yellow-piped blue breeches. They retained the red fez (now worn without the white turban) and a red sash, and had white gaiters. Undress consisted of a colonial paletot and serual in the same light brown cloth as the Marine one, the Tirailleurs’ having yellow cuff chevrons and collar braiding to distinguish it from the Marine version.” –p.118
Notice his use of adjectives to describe the exact shade of blue: “royal navy,” and “light blue.” Only in regard to the 1868 paletot does he simply use “blue.”
If I erred in painting my Tirailleurs it is in highlighting them too much, thereby making them look lighter than they actually are. Plus, I am limited by the shades of paint I have available. To me, they are blue, not sky blue. Also, they are supposed to have a blue tassel on their fez, but it is not modeled and I did not feel like making them.
Finally, I agree that they look Algerian, but that is the fault of the sculptor. Their faces certainly don’t look Senegalese to me! Nevertheless they are Tirailleurs Sénégalais.
Thanks for your input.
K.C.
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This no random image from the internet. I'm far far away from my books ad this is what I find who looks closer of the late XIXth century Senegalese uniform.
Even in the book you mention, the 1868 paletot is mentionned as blue and I can assure you that this colour is in fact dark blue, just like in the picture.
The light blue turco style uniform is from an earlier period, just as mentionned in you text. :)
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A useful link, with some nice B&W pictures from Dahomey, including a Tirailleur sénagalais
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchresult.cfm?word=Alb%C3%A9ca%2C%20Alexandre%20L.%20d'&s=3¬word=&f=4
Pictures from LE PETIT JOURNAL, an illustrated french newspaper of the period. The senegalese are depicted in kaki uniform and, later, in, dark blue and white dress (in the background)
(http://fotoforum.fr/photos/2009/10/09.9.jpg) (http://fotoforum.fr)
(http://fotoforum.fr/photos/2009/10/09.10.jpg) (http://fotoforum.fr)
A picture of the storming of Akpa in Dahomey:
(http://fotoforum.fr/photos/2009/10/09.11.jpg) (http://fotoforum.fr)
Hope it helps ;)
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@Siaba:
Look, I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth snipe fest with you. I paint miniatures for fun, it's my hobby. I do the best historical research I can, as a non-professional historian. If it's right, it's right; if it's wrong, oh well. Move on. Maybe you're right; if so, I'll use these guys as Algerians, will that make you happy? Otherwise I plan to use them, as is, as Senegalese. Sorry.
I repeat my main points: black and white images are useless for determining colors (duh); I don't trust online images unless from a primary source, and even then computer monitors can present skewed colors; I can force almost any color to change via bad reproduction techniques or digital manipulation. Show me a color print in a reputable book and we can talk.
BTW, thanks for raining on my parade. My first big posting of pictures on LAF...off to a great start.
Thanks for your input.
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Don't forget colours fade! especially in the sun and look where they are stationed.
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Look, I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth snipe fest with you. I paint miniatures for fun, it's my hobby. I do the best historical research I can, as a non-professional historian. If it's right, it's right; if it's wrong, oh well. Move on. Maybe you're right; if so, I'll use these guys as Algerians, will that make you happy? Otherwise I plan to use them, as is, as Senegalese. Sorry.
No problem. Your figures are very well painted, I just pointed that the uniforms are of the wrong colour.
If you're happy with it, that's OK. ;)
I repeat my main points: black and white images are useless for determining colors (duh); I don't trust online images unless from a primary source, and even then computer monitors can present skewed colors; I can force almost any color to change via bad reproduction techniques or digital manipulation. Show me a color print in a reputable book and we can talk.
If you happen to come to France, I would be happy to show you books about the french colonial army of the period and one about tirailleurs sénégalais. But it'll be difficult for me to put the hand on color pictures of the time :D
By the way, I have other things to do than manipulate colors to prove my point.....
BTW, thanks for raining on my parade. My first big posting of pictures on LAF...off to a great start.
If you only want to get compliments for your figures, just mention it when you post the picturess. You have posted on a public forum, so you ran the risk of seing you work criticized. :)
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By the way, I have other things to do than manipulate colors to prove my point.....
I did not accuse you of that.
If you only want to get compliments for your figures, just mention it when you post the picturess. You have posted on a public forum, so you ran the risk of seing you work criticized. :)
Ahh, right, let me spend hundreds of hours painting hundreds of figures so someone can tell me they think I did it wrong. That must be why I posted on a public forum. Thanks for the clarification.
Anyway, I'm done. I will not debate this anymore. Moving on. Everyone can breathe easier now.
Thanks for your input.
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Are the Senegalese figures from Dixon too?
I love the way you painted your figures they are really well done 8)
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Okay, everyone's had their say, and the positions seem quite entrenched. Can we leave it now, lads? I don't think further debating of this is going to get us anywhere. Let's keep things friendly.