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Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Grumpy Gnome on April 08, 2022, 04:33:59 PM
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In something of a surprise (to me anyway) announcement it seems Warlord Games will no longer be developing Beyond the Gates of Antares.
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/the-future-of-beyond-the-gates-of-antares/?__s=aim2cn1jvjudi3hxypqr
Reportedly Rick Priestly and Tim Bancroft will continue the game with a free PDF Second Edition then further development in the future.
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I’m not surprised. They’ve been on mass sale in every past Warlord seasonal sale. Nobody plays it round here even though they have armies. I find it a bit fiddly. I do have two armies. Xenos Rampant here we come lol
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yes - not surprising given my impression of sales, but sad to hear nonetheless. Hope Tim Bancroft has been able to move onto something else ok.
as such - interesting to hear Warlord talking about general commercial pressures etc.
casually, I thought the hobby 'industry', overall, had done very well for sales during Lockdown etc, but clearly that's not the whole story by any means, particularly with adverse circumstances ramping up this year.
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Well that's...interesting. Never heard of Skytrex...maybe its where Warlord stuff goes to slowly die or maybe they created a sister company to down grade things and disassociate them from Warlord where they can then be cut loose if the finances / sales call for it.
I wonder what level of support BtGoA will see in the future.
40k really does seem to be a behemoth that all other non-skirmish scale games struggle against. Can anyone knock it off its throne?
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Skytrex (at least in name, and I assume it's the same 'property') long predates Warlord Games - it was a very well known name back in the (19 ;) )70's when I got into the hobby.
Had no idea that Warlord owned it now.
Seems a bit of a strange thing to do, moving it to a 'sister' company formally, but then, what do I know about 'business' ...
I would be surprised (although would love to be proved wrong) if Priestley does much for the 2nd edition. Maybe the freebie revised core rules, but then?
He seems to be stretched in so many directions, rulesets-wise, and one gets the impression that mostly all of that GW olde garde really only enjoy historical gaming these days, so not convinced the motivation is there...
Tim Bancroft clearly does have a passion for the IP, But anyhoo, time will tell I guess...
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Ahh thanks Bloggard, I was born in '79 so that's before my gaming era.
Yeah I think you're right about Antares. I can't help but feel that it was expanded to be too big a game.
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40k really does seem to be a behemoth that all other non-skirmish scale games struggle against. Can anyone knock it off its throne?
I really don't think anyone can, GW have got it sewn up really insofar as they have instant recognisability even amongst non-gamers, massive market presence on the high street either with their own shops or the independents who stock little else and a fan base who are so financially invested that it's easier/cheaper to get stiffed by GW a few of times per year than start anew with other systems.
Some are so clued up on 40K and/or Sigmar that even if they look to try something else they depend on GW to supply. I'm just introducing Frostgrave to a couple of folk and they have immediately bought the GW 4 pack of Wizards for nearly Ł30 and will be wanting to build the troops from GW stuff; this is despite me pointing them to Northstar's 8 wizards for Ł15 box.
It feels like they're programmed to go GW even when looking to move away from it.
To be fair it's a job well done by GW and they have a business to run but I don't think it's worthwhile for other companies to challenge directly adopting the same business model.
I think 3D home printing of STL's and PDF/online rules will be the best avenue forward for challenging GW dominance as it's a method they are unfamiliar with - for example I'm told Battlescribe is superior to GW's offering by the players I know.
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40K is the D&D of sci-fi "battle" scale gaming. It's a terrible game, but it's IP/lore/model designs are solid and it's been round so long that it's the "easy" choice for new gamers, etc. No one is playing 40K because the rules are good...they play it because they like the models, or it's just what everyone else plays. Being so popular makes it...thus...more popular, a kind of chicken-and-egg conundrum for other companies to compete against.
Mantic was smart, doing it a bit tongue-in-cheek, but their models were pretty garbage for quite a while. I know there are small pockets of Mantic gamers, but it's never appeared in any gaming circles I play in, and that says a lot. Same thing for Beyond the Gates of Antares. I am part of several different gaming groups with very different appetites, and differing age demographics spanning my state and the one next to it....if not one person I know mentions a game, that's a marketing/business failure.
I have never met a single person who knew anything beyond the name Beyond the Gates of Antares. A few people know it as "Bolt Action 40K", and some people know Rick Priestley was attached to it. But in all other metrics it must be a complete failure from a business standpoint. Is it big in the UK?
My only experience with the game was watching videos and demos when it came out - and the aesthetic left me cold as ice. Not a good start since I'm at least vaguel attracted to most wargaming styles.
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Skytrex (at least in name, and I assume it's the same 'property') long predates Warlord Games - it was a very well known name back in the (19 ;) )70's when I got into the hobby.
Had no idea that Warlord owned it now.
Same company - they ran into a few ' trading issues' around 5 years ago. Some ranges went to Warlord & IIRC Heroics and Ros picked up the rest. I'm not quite sure how the 2 companies are configured but at least it continues to provide some decent ranges.
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Always a bummer when a game goes under, but I share the lack of surprise. I can't comment on the quality of rules(read them, but don't recall a thing) or miniatures(looked the range over, but nothing grabbed me) but it entered a space that already was fairly crowded with similar glossy full-service games vying for the not-40k gaming dollar.
Maelstrom's Edge had just launched and it had the advantage of plastic kits, Mantic was pushing Warpath/Deadzone, Legion was just about to drop and Infinity was strong. It was hard to stand out in that environment, and that's not even taking into consideration the buzz smaller, budget players like North Star would shortly be creating with Rogue Stars, Stargrave and the accompanying plastics.
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It's quite sad, I was into Gates in a big way in 2017. It had alot of support and the fanbase which were rabid (This was before games like Legion, Stargrave Deadzone ect), events were put on often and dedicated gaming groups called Shards were formed and it seemed to being well.
Then the support got less and less and people started to lose interest, plus the rules were a mess in the way alot of Warlord rules are.
A promise of 2nd Edition was made and that dragged on for 3 years, the promise of another race in plastic never appeared, Covid happened and that was the final nail.
I still have a army and all the rules/supplements as honestly I hoped it would be back with a bang with a new clean edition.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WUhK0rKS_hI/Wjz7nb0fGtI/AAAAAAAAGWc/BqDdJulnysI4Pi9lUNe5VQX1XLNoZKRAwCEwYBhgL/s1600/DSC_0085.JPG)
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They seem to have got it so nearly right, trying to build a unique 'rules & models' gaming universe, but although competently made, the models and forces never seemed very interesting to me. There didn't seem to be much of a handle to grab onto and maintain interest in the genre. Probably a better idea to keep doing what they're doing and buy into established universes with an existing fanbase (like the various 2000AD lines) and then actually concentrate on making an enjoyable game.
The problem is, Warlord are notorious for picking up and dropping games and ranges, so now fewer people are likely to buy in to anything new, fearing it will be dumped in a couple of years.
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I'm with you Cubs on this . Sci Fi gamers are notoriously fickle especially when it comes to 28mm battle sized as opposed to 1to 1 skirmish.As I know to my cost in other genres having a "Name" associated with the rules does not always mean quality and financial success and Warlord are definitely not a charity.
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They seem to have got it so nearly right, trying to build a unique 'rules & models' gaming universe, but although competently made, the models and forces never seemed very interesting to me. There didn't seem to be much of a handle to grab onto and maintain interest in the genre.
I think you brought it to the point: too less interest. The different nationswere not really good developed and the missing releases gave the game the rest. The rules needed more work and clarification. I think they are not good testet. Hope they work on it and maybe develop it open from a manufacturer. An open system to use with all figures on the market.
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I'm torn - I actually like a fair few of the models and genuinely think the universe is really cool - but warlord are really bad at putting across what the universe is actually about.
I don't really like the bolt action system but it's a shame when a game essentially gts put out to pasture. And it makes me fear for some of the minis on my "to buy" list from warlord - I can't see konflikt 47 lasting long at this rate.
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I don't really like the bolt action system but it's a shame when a game essentially gts put out to pasture. And it makes me fear for some of the minis on my "to buy" list from warlord - I can't see konflikt 47 lasting long at this rate.
I wonder about K47 but I'm more hopeful. It definitely has a leg up on Sci Fi games in my eyes in terms of survivability and later use. It could be gone tomorrow but I think it's more likely to stick around because so much of the range is models produced and purchased for Bolt Action and other historical games. Those units have extremely long production lives. Even if if the K47 range isn't expanded, it only takes keeping the rulebook in print for it to continue.
Even if it's days are numbered I don't mind having invested in K47 (though I've only played a few games) because the minis are quite affordable and if K47 dies, there's other WWW2 and WW2 games they could be used in. Other game use is technically the case for games like Antares too, but the models are more expensive, have narrower appeal and don't necessarilyhave the same direct-equivalence as WWW2/WW2 units.
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I bought the boxed set a few years ago s I thought it was pretty inexpensive, read the rules but never got around to playing the game. I quite like a lot of the models in the ranges and will be using some of them in 5 Parsecs From Home.
If we take the article linked to in the OP to be Warlord's word then the game and the ranges aren't really being dropped; production will no longer Warlord's responsibility and plans to expand the ranges or add new lines are being cancelled. Now I recognise this could be the first step in a long slow death, but for the time being ...
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If we take the article linked to in the OP to be Warlord's word then the game and the ranges aren't really being dropped; production will no longer Warlord's responsibility and plans to expand the ranges or add new lines are being cancelled. Now I recognise this could be the first step in a long slow death, but for the time being ...
It feels a little bit like it's getting scotia grendel'd - still avaliable but not a living game in any sense. Which is fine, Games don't need constant support to stay fun - But Antares certainly seems to have struggled at every step, from its initial kickstarter to its slow decline at warlord.This feels like a bit of a "look how nice this retirement place is grandad, wouldn't you want to live here instead of that drafty old house?" situation.
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I quite like some of the figures (and really dislike others), but there never seemed to be a huge difference aesthetically between the races.
I'll probably pick up a few more figures, but it is a shame.
Mantic is shouting about the second edition of their Firefight rules just now, which I think is meant to be their W40 alternative (there are several flavours, I could be wrong). I did wonder if that was a wise move on their part, but time will tell
I was aware Skytrex was still about, but, other than as a nostalgic memory from my childhood, I haven't kept up with them
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It feels a little bit like it's getting scotia grendel'd - still avaliable but not a living game in any sense. Which is fine, Games don't need constant support to stay fun.
I think "Grendel'd" needs to enter the wargamer vernacular. Such an accurate term for so many games where the figures and rules are available but -except for folks like us- no one cares.
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I am honestly surprised it lasted this long. It has never been much of a success and just seemed like a bit drag on resources with little return. It is clear that Warlord's bread and butter is historical style games, and this one stuck out as an odd duck.
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Got the rulebook, read it through, the background and factions put me off. Where as Mr Priestly's other rules the Warlords of Erehwon is much better, for me anyhow. BTGOA just didn't grab me.
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I liked some of the minis, the Boromites where interesting , but I never bought anything or really had and interest in the rules. It was always "maybe one day I'll get a few if those" I guess that day will never come now.
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40K is the D&D of sci-fi "battle" scale gaming. It's a terrible game, but it's IP/lore/model designs are solid and it's been round so long that it's the "easy" choice for new gamers, etc. No one is playing 40K because the rules are good...they play it because they like the models, or it's just what everyone else plays. Being so popular makes it...thus...more popular, a kind of chicken-and-egg conundrum for other companies to compete against.
This is the reality of it. 40K as a ruleset has been in need of an overhaul since the early 2000s. Third Edition was the last meaningful revision, and it wasn't always for the better, either.
Mantic was smart, doing it a bit tongue-in-cheek, but their models were pretty garbage for quite a while. I know there are small pockets of Mantic gamers, but it's never appeared in any gaming circles I play in, and that says a lot. Same thing for Beyond the Gates of Antares. I am part of several different gaming groups with very different appetites, and differing age demographics spanning my state and the one next to it....if not one person I know mentions a game, that's a marketing/business failure.
I know a few people that want to play Mantic games in my area, but too many have the GW-itis. The one exception is Kings of War, which is quite popular.
It's a shame, because Deadzone is good, and the new Warpath: Firefight looks to be what 40k should have been a long time ago (it will certainly play a lot faster!). I got some new models from the Warpath line recently, and they're quite nice. I was able to build a Stargrave crew from half of the Veer-Myn Night Crawlers box alone.
I think the main thing that hurt Antares is that it didn't offer much that was genuinely distinct, other than the Bolt Action token pull system. From my skim of the rulebook, it seems like a solid, but thick-with-detail ruleset.
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Let’s be fair to Antares. I have loads of the models. It got to a point they were flogging loads of them once a year at 50% off. I actually think all the models were lovely and loads were even in high quality plastic. The rules were a bit fiddly but OK. I enjoyed the games I played. All three of them. Over five years. But nobody can really compete with the longevity and power pull of Warhammer 40k which itself has ups and downs. In a crowded field. Nobody was ever going to make Antares their go to game. I’ve only ever seen Warmachine compete as a go to game. And where is that now? So it was inevitable and why would anyone start a mass scale futuristic game system? Even Firefight, just released by Mantic. They usually don’t release a freebie digital rules set till months in. A few days after release, hey everyone to get more of you interested here’s an email with a link to a free rules set as enough of you clearly haven’t bought it! I reckon it’s probably really good to like Deadzone. Which I play a fair bit. But who’s got time for yet another game system?
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EDIT: Warpath: Firefight only has sample rules free for download.
The large scale version of Warpath (the one that uses stands of infantry) is a bit long in the tooth, is still free for the full rulebook, and has been for some time. It is the only full ruleset available for free download at the moment. The rest are either full rulebooks that require a lot of purchased components (like Star Saga, Dungeon Saga, and Dreadball), or sample rulebooks that let people try before they buy.
https://www.manticgames.com/mantic-games-free-rules/