Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: Dukewilliam on May 03, 2022, 06:47:05 PM
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Men,
I am in the process of designing a scenario for the Battle of Iuka using the Mr. Lincoln's War rules set.
Like most regimental rules sets I have seen, this one requires knowing what each unit was armed with (muskets, rifled muskets, carbines...) How would I find such information? I have the entire Orders of Battle, in terms of which units were present but need to know this and, if possible, the unit strengths at the time of the battle.
Any help appreciated,
Thanks,
Steve
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I would suggest getting hold of a really detailed book on the battle such as Peter Cozzens The Darkest Days of the War: The Battles of Iuka and Corinth. I don’t have this book any more but from memory all his books are very detailed with orbats of units strengths.
Unit weapons might be mentioned if usual as rifle muskets would probably be the norm for this period.
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I use Wikipedia as a start.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_Civil_War_orders_of_battle
Iuka is here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iuka_order_of_battle
Then I fill in numbers from the Wikipedia account of the battle, as well as other sources (books, websites, etc.).
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You may be able to determine what weapons the units had by searching through period Ordnance returns, but even that may be scarce on some units. You will find though that is was a real hodge-podge even at that time, and even with Union units. Some smoothbores, British Enfields, and a lot of European muskets, Potsdam, Belgian, etc. The "West" wasn't really a priority for either side as long as the men had something to shoot with.
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Thanks men.
I have the Cozzens book; that is where I got the inspiration for the scenario. However it does not list unit strengths at the time of the battle, nor what the units were armed with.
It’s the same with Wikipedia.
This is the precise reason I have stayed away from regimental level games; I can’t find the necessary details to do anything truly ‘historical’ because much of it will be guess work. It’s just frustrating because I’ve seen plenty of regimental scale scenarios with the appropriate information. I’ll keep looking.
Thanks again,
Steve
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If you have access to a copy, the Army Builder chapter at the back of Fire & Fury 2nd Edition is an excellent tool for randomly determining weapon type, troop quality etc, based on the army, year and theatre of war.
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Alas; I sold my copy.
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Just thought of this after. The Official records may shed some light on numbers, but I think they were lumped in with the Corinth numbers, so they may not provide what you're looking for exactly (?). It may be some interesting reading at the very least.
https://www.civilwartrack.com/iuka-union-official-records
https://www.civilwartrack.com/iuka-confederate-official-records
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Regimental Fire and Fury Civil War Battle Scenarios Volume 1: 1861-1862 has Iuka in it. I think I have that book. I'll look tomorrow, and let you know. If I do, I can give you what that author uses for unit strengths and weapons.
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As it turns out, I do have that book. If you don't already know, RF&F rates unite as Green, Trained, Veteran, and Crack. Leaders are Poor, Able, and Gallant.
Here's the Battle of Iuka OOB (with approx. strengths, ratings, and weapons) included in the book:
Union Army of the Mississippi
Leader: Rosecrans (Able)
1st Division
Leader: Hamilton (Gallant)
1st Brigade
Leader: Sanborn (Able)
48th Indiana Infantry (440, Trained, rifle muskets)
16th Iowa Infantry (480, Veteran, inferior rifles)
4th Minnesota Infantry (400, Trained, smoothbore muskets)
26th Missouri Infantry (400, Trained, rifle muskets)
11th Ohio Light Artillery (Veteran, 3 sections - one each of light rifles, light smoothbores, and light howitzers)
2nd Brigade
Leader: Sullivan (Able)
10th Iowa Infantry (480, Trained, smoothbore muskets)
10th Missouri Infantry (640, Trained, inferior rifles)
17th Iowa Infantry (480, Trained, inferior rifles)
80th Ohio Infantry (480, Trained, rifle muskets)
12th Wisconsin Artillery (Trained, 2 sections - one each of light smoothbore and light howitzers)
2nd Division
Leader: Stanley (Able)
2nd Brigade
Leader: Mower (Gallant)
26th Illinois Infantry (480, Trained, inferior rifles)
11th Missouri Infantry (480, Trained, inferior rifles)
47th Illinois Infantry (480, Trained, rifle muskets)
8th Wisconsin Infantry (480, trained, smoothbore muskets)
2nd Iowa Artillery (Trained, 3 sections - 2 of light rifles, and one of light howitzers)
Confederate Army of the West
Leader: Price (Able)
Little's Division
Leader: Little (Gallant)
1st Brigade
Leader: Gates (Able)
16th Arkansas Infantry (240, Veteran, smoothbore muskets)
2nd Missouri Infantry (320, Veteran, smoothbore muskets)
3rd Missouri Infantry (280, Veteran, smoothbore muskets)
5th Missouri Infantry (240, Veteran, smoothbore muskets)
1st Missouri Cavalry (dismounted) (240, Veteran, shotguns and hunting rifles)
Wade's Missouri Artillery (Veteran, 2 sections - one each of light smoothbores and light howitzers)
2nd Brigade
Leader: Hebert (Gallant)
14th & 17th Arkansas Infantry (240, Veteran, smoothbore muskets)
3rd Louisiana Infantry (280, Veteran, smoothbore muskets)
40th Mississippi Infantry (320, Green, inferior rifles)
1st Texas Legion Cavalry (480, Green, shotguns and hunting rifles)
3rd Texas Cavalry (dismounted) (400, Veteran, shotguns and hunting rifles)
Dawson's St. Louis Artillery (Veteran, 2 sections - one each of light smoothbores and light howitzers)
Clark's Missouri Artillery (Veteran, 2 light smoothbore sections)
4th Brigade
Leader: Martin (Able)
37th Alabama Infantry (480, Green, smoothbore muskets)
36th Mississippi Infantry (320, Green, smoothbore muskets)
37th Mississippi Infantry (440, Green, smoothbore muskets)
38th Mississippi Infantry (320, Green, smoothbore muskets)
Those are the units that author included in his scenario. Hope this helps...
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That is excellent! Thank you!
It is exactly what I wanted/needed. But it still begs the question: where does one find this sort of information? (The original work I mean, I know this comes from RF&F, but where did *they* get it from?) It would be nice for future reference.
Thanks again, you have made me very happy,
Steve
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And thank you Sepoy, those records are a fascinating read.
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Damned if I can recall what it is called - far too many years ago, like twenty or more - but I recollect there was a resource with much of that sort of information in book form but seriously expensive. There was also something similar on CD but also rather expensive. And, of course, a lot of that information will be hard to come by, especially for southern units. And good luck getting proper artillery information for many battles!
That being said, and to each their own, I believe you are expecting too much to be able to find joy in regimental level gaming. While having such information can be fun, using that information can drag a game from fun to tedium pretty quick. If you want a serious simulation of a battle and are going to go solo and have large quantities of time or some seriously dedicated gamers, more power to you. But I think if the goal is to enjoy a game, you can still put together a good regimental level game. My experience - and I used to try to do what seems to be your goal - is that such information rapidly gets lost in the hub-bub of playing the game.
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This is precisely the reason I have stayed away from Regimental games. I had bought F&F but never even tried it once i saw how complex it had become. Then they did the same thing to the brigade rules. But that's not meant as a slam, just my preference; I still think the original F&F rules are among the best I have ever played for any period. Seamless. I use them all the time.
My reason for going regimental was based on the scenario I wanted to run: Iuka. I think it is a great battle to game but at 2 brigades on both sides, I needed to scale it down. Mr. Lincoln's War seems to fit the bill for what I want and hopefully won't bog the game down.
Thanks,
Steve
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We use Gettysburg Soldiers for our regimental games. It differentiates between unit skill levels and weapons, but not at the level like RF&F. It works well.
But to answer the original question, one had to look at original sources. Unit returns, casualty reports and the like. The US National Archives has them. You might be able to see what's available by searching their website.
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There is an invaluable resource on Union armament by unit throughout the war, I believe put together by a military history enthusiast/re-enactor and donated to his local museum in Wisconsin. As far as I remember, it is free to download from the museum as a pdf. Can I suggest you search 'American Civil War Military Equipage Archival Collection, the Civil War Museum, Kenosha Wisconsin,'? It has some uniform details and regimental colour information as well.
I wasn't so lucky with information for the Secesh. My interest was the Georgia brigade of McLaw's division at Chancellorsville, which included the legions of Cobb and Phillips. I was able to track down each regiment through various online resources, sufficient to be pretty confident that the brigade used a mixture of Enfield P1853s and 'Richmond' rifles, or copies of the 1855 Springfields manufactured with machine-tools removed by Virginia from Harper's Ferry.
I am pretty late in responding to this thread, but I hope this may be of interest to the OP or someone else.
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Can’t go wrong with the Battles and Leaders series for units, unit strengths/losses per battle, but not any real info on weapons used by each.
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There is an invaluable resource on Union armament by unit throughout the war, I believe put together by a military history enthusiast/re-enactor and donated to his local museum in Wisconsin. As far as I remember, it is free to download from the museum as a pdf. Can I suggest you search 'American Civil War Military Equipage Archival Collection, the Civil War Museum, Kenosha Wisconsin,'? It has some uniform details and regimental colour information as well.
I wasn't so lucky with information for the Secesh. My interest was the Georgia brigade of McLaw's division at Chancellorsville, which included the legions of Cobb and Phillips. I was able to track down each regiment through various online resources, sufficient to be pretty confident that the brigade used a mixture of Enfield P1853s and 'Richmond' rifles, or copies of the 1855 Springfields manufactured with machine-tools removed by Virginia from Harper's Ferry.
I am pretty late in responding to this thread, but I hope this may be of interest to the OP or someone else.
Great stuff! Thank you!
Steve