Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Wiegraf on May 21, 2022, 10:42:11 PM
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Here's my somewhat lengthy intro and ramblings to this project and discussion. Lately I've been painting Hundred Years War figures from Perry to create a small force of French soldiers to play Lions Rampant with. I don't have a specific battle or retinue I am working on, but rather have chosen to deal with a mix of Agincourt (1415) up until Joan of Arc's death (1431). Basically I'm using "the rule of cool" and choosing what I'd like to paint that looks good aesthetically.
I love to research everything about what I paint and try to meet my levels of artistic licence somewhere with an agreeable amount of historical accuracy. Most of my painting experience involves doing ancients like Samnites where a degree of artistic freedom is granted, or with World War 2 figures where a lot of the soldiers are uniform. But for me, the late medieval period and renaissance is a bit of a mixture of very loose accuracy as well as documentation, so I hope I am doing both my artistic and historical side justice here in the project.
I have three boxes from Perry, all plastic, no metals (yet). The Agincourt Foot Knight Box, the French Infantry Box, and the Mounted French Knight box. I had to buy an extra 6 horses for the extra 6 knights that the mounted box came with to use all those legs up (They give you 12 horses but you can make 16 mounted men in the box if you buy 6 more horses!). I've also borrowed shields from the Mercenary box set of the later 15th century (they're a bit smaller but still are large enough for pavise). Following the game's unit sizing, I've basically planned my force in the following method:
1) x2 units of Men-at-arms (Foot knights basically, 6 men a unit)
2) x2 units of Mounted Men-at-arms (Mounted Knights, basically. 6 men a unit)
3) x1 unit of mounted sergeants (6 men a unit)
4) x1 unit of Pavise Bearer Sergeants (12 men a unit)
5) x1 unit of Crossbowmen (12 men a unit)
6) x1 unit of "Expert Sergeants" (In Lion Rampant, these are sergeants that ditch the shields and use heavier weapons, they basically get attack bonuses and lose defensive abilities. I'll have the unit contain mixed arms like sword and buckler men, or axe / pole arm users).
I have many, many left over Foot Knight bodies so I might make more generic men at arms later on, or maybe use them to start an English force in the future. I also include a few Scottish men of note that partook in some of the battles in France.
Anyways, here's some of the work I've finished as well as current WIP. Most of them have been what I call "unnamed or generic" men at arms, while some I try to incorporate known individuals or family symbols.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjCWo2dsCB--4oRsmxeJPNTzlFDz8MaXDGQt0dZOlBv59dXxq8m0h_bat0DhbPcu02E4AkHnVdydu3d1dlcEO9TyCxw4NqRbYLqDuXWRECquU0_pMHIRjWmerjkXPdXmJ4hH6LdW7jqKLjlqZp0a1T4RGsotHfhLOeyOX-bVHgAVbK_ahcQ8r4Yj0sN/w400-h300/280729407_10162206885499466_1599971780959317731_n.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiCfz2fHA6LhFl69GuebnBBRQUu8y9M9cMaeU7YK4K5y5kuNXVb9sFwnueIb26urJhmxY4iQ_xBpRXbjwX6aOTmIVteZGB-aABwb4zf7B4lNztRoUnkVcfSebdUjCxCnSgxOKU0yF0J4ki99ZRiswTuRBPNRcQ59EgPTtX5Kos6hrXaQ6IJxKrhdv6s/w400-h288/IMG_8107.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhfQ_FwyWD9g6jsN4EB-QZt_N5BzUSViFSXRYNlLdwX8K23PDTdhIgl7Mrz6kO5z671HILeqKTfU540h7gH0YX44NEBsb_T2r9hsegkxDelPsGzUWRebE_iyDcOoniQDFkH4bJNY_OaCTJ3zuaU_jCdnNnAIkX_61_35MiITfVLfG__uRSvEt9xDiCh/w400-h300/IMG_8109.jpg)
Based on D'Amboise ...
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiGe7_ix3tF0_NArMXoaY_riLGNARuZrCWMNgaFUTmKvaZMcSTKHAsBJTTOlyEwFROlvdbc0trmTAb7AwWpNrZmIMrgnjW8AOm1ujP1X2JMdYB9B1jyPzl1C7GLGjE4wK55UUcwJgtHxU2FFEpfnvdAU9m30quuzzqKnCAqHpEwu4uPjnqvIsuJe0pj/w400-h199/IMG_8112.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgNrI8JzkxP4TH2qnaWk-A_w-4EZO_WggyCH5fAvbT1u8GJowIc5KasNwSUeVDZFesbybXYE1CwdZfoJpy6Y_Ht5k4lHs9ZWsqqqE2LB2TzWWiP-22UKI_-ZT4-Gex5aGpAwpQ99E_T8LiAwxZ97PFuV1meaZ75_G3FpTb7GR6a6YEia11SetoDXIJa/w400-h224/IMG_7557.jpg)
I have Arthur III of Brittany on foot in the back there behind various men at arms.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEijnka88S9s1O0pG_Wneu7WqrJ5U-ASSUa_3eJGNIOa43d5bT-c-ixiS1PeEJjCkjtq0EAagQkag_VfZ7a6MPdRBzMvdp4Ouv6LSON4XRTikJE06vkMcEQ8DH-kK4iFwpsCJHcW9eYhwP29vo9qZteiRKQGiQhd7zMvl3OTHlx1lvyegfmlYk9SFW0H/w400-h241/IMG_7561.jpg)
A Scottish Soldier, Hugh Kennedy of Ardstynchar
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYS_3hlkgI6uoa-BYf8Cf3Rc5wDkZeATdk4XeYVx3Jmi8q7jyX_Ncbe8wl_igU19hqHaPkqA5fT2WR9pWq1Ae5knFvYiRH8fIwkzjqovQt94KWiVxJKVZlSWgSZOkTRedOn6smT-iGrUPy3gBtWC5d7KS4VuZm6rWyBoVBPsFUxhNCAHiBs9N1khgf/w300-h400/IMG_7894.jpg)
Generic Knight / Men At Arms .
Here's some work in progress...
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiioLOLVQsQkclYNGKOTcOUtqAqQwpYRopR0jG70CmiPBlTe6PBgz8PlBSI5OreJ4EjMr58fs8XJK8bmzVsFW0LCeT2BcPU0InZvG7oWeLimEzxzPjtPilJ4GMW1rShA36gs8Gn9oc5wUZfQFqVdEeP1dCEDPAk0dW5Iq3OmAd0X6WVjm0e4qWAB8qo/w480-h640/279852578_374140134675846_4850790894880476979_n.jpg)
There were two Stewarts of Scotland I noted in the 1420s fighting in France. I've decided to paint the one that died fighting in the Battle of the Herrings (1429), the one of Darnley (not Buchan, who died in 1424).
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2vtYvxwHR1XBOHkvZtnkKzvOIeVY3-vWdK8YZL-P4aUhX7f_GRY1cljLC6wz2WoCxzgIOePhoZ6Km1qRaly50S55fa75jheoPU_Ojr5OA-Bq9rcVIqvhTkz-VjFte9PyPC8eNcLYlGzpaq72NM1s0UmwyzV3MqunmbFM-QZfM7bP5fCi-lGroul7i/s320/280752826_10162206885674466_8216333198824987675_n.jpg)
D'albret. Could be the one that passed at Agincourt, or the son fighting later on.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhZ399mY3G6gF31vVnSgvyQ36GhOyGkz5aS2T3-DrlXP8dJ7Or0XQ3Pk2vCwINt1r04JOpwDUTtFKaIHeEI3_DZISnfMTWBvuXzE3nngGX8k89OmBb2-hkodDMIg2SkfvLML89yctPnkcyrNdPxQ8LESi_lihIE0vgzmEHyhEEVChqQRETi5Sl3hgur/s320/281134666_820940375538083_4251335083079389730_n.jpg)
Jean de Bueil.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg2qhOxiSLGTa-bPn_oODfP2hR4gp-_GKMt959vdAsOPZDSx_eW278mDTkAZKK-dAnvWexCN7Uaz3TrByo3I82Bp26ejq1Fln-ZTquXB0DhQ1qz6l0ASARh_fsuf6-CiEx2fB981jpUjcJp914wGoYuABE80NhVoHV69rggelZz6H6_5Ma445vm8xMa/s320/IMG_8292.jpg)
This one is a d'Auxy. Died in Agincourt if I remember correctly.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgf4jXuuLfJW4T8W_Nl_kf8oya8DiVgzrlBgpIsTSJ8YVrmX2I0AsrlCYacFETYkiPuiMGsFXTajtY5D5ydF9QFPg0qtJMyAoetlAcItoMwS-3aDMg30I3xw6RUUuZ1zeScRvrNdqmqpJICMB2oj4W7Yre1nC9wW7y1jBdkv6BJlmBp6Z3xzLG_dyLc/s320/IMG_8908.jpg)
Generic Knight
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiWzsXdXnpGwxZCohGGLemWYjzzSbpSKHA7IYchM7X2-_SPLAXGKEp_qrzI5lsZuTdAffVRIaIGyF6Cv2yK55nrUD7Wmr--v798SJYdtVKC_JAh6kiIemwHzsw1b8VQ4UgEb754lFWvroavz_LEZcKhwNvalAZp18aAotbOgwuKpXo0Li1r4OnPHC09/w300-h400/IMG_8916.jpg)
This one could be Gilles de Rais on foot, or again generic Men at Arms.
I started doing more specific individuals in the second round of Foot Knights and will do so for the other mounted knights as well. I plan get the Count of Vendome and La Fayatte in the mix there somehow as well. For those of you that know your history, you'll see I've mixed in a few coat of arms / symbols that may not have survived Agincourt or only perhaps attend a single battle between 1415-1430 and are never written about again. The problem with individual battles transcribed in English is that its often only recorded with a few commanders present and then they're never mentioned again - So for Lions Rampant I do not mind having a dead individual (such as d'albret the 1st or d'auxy) suddenly appearing in the Siege of Orleans to fill in the ranks. Let's just assume it is someone else for those battles so I don't have to paint so much!
I really enjoy painting and drawing out the various coat of arms and heraldry. One has to apply a certain level of artistic licence when working with them, however, as I believe some of the older recorded versions of the heraldry are either poorly documented, where the newer ones have evolved and changed over time (and we now have digitalized versions in the form of png or jpg files, which is not how they'd look like in the real world!)
A lot of these historical names I have drawn up from various websites, accounts, and manuscripts. Which leads me on to the next and main thinking part of this forum post: Pavise shields. I've decided for my sergeants armed with pavise to give them individual civic (city) symbols on their shields. I have seen many people combine a unit of soldiers with the same heraldry (Such as giving all the soldiers the heraldry of Metz or Toulon in a single unit), but I will give each soldier an individual shield from various cities and communes. My two biggest problems with doing this is going for historical accuracy. It is not as simple as picking some random French town and applying the coat of arms to it. Some towns in this period after Agincourt also stood behind the English, recognizing the English King as soverign, and not the French. Furthermore, some coat of arms were not documented nor distributed to civics during this time and were only noted later, so I had to research historical medieval towns and the date and age of a lot of the civic emblems. To do this I've looked at armorial rolls / manuscripts recorded in the 15th and 16th centuries as well as try to note how they've evolved in more modern times. I've also found a great blog in French to assist: https://herald-dick-magazine.blogspot.com/2016/02/recueil-darmoiries-de-villes-de-france.html
It is a very useful blog because there is so much lost with sources in English! It's easy to hit translate in Chrome and get the general idea.
The two main historical manuscripts I've drawn my sources from are from the Armoiral de Gilles Le Bouvier and something called " Recueil de blasons peints. " The first armorial is probably the most accurate, as it seems to be recorded right after / the end of the Hundred Years War. However, I only recognize and can make out the city of Paris in regards to Civic Coats of arms. There are tons of accurate knights and nobles and families within, but with only English at my disposal and unclear documentation in it, beyond Paris I cannot make out which town or city is what.
On the other hand, the Recueil de blasons peints, or just "Collection of Painted Coats of arms" , which was apparently written in the 16th century has a number of towns and cities with coats of arms. These are the ones I have typically seen modernized, but there are some that are recorded differently. Le Mans, for example, in modern day representation has a "chief" at the top of its heraldry with three fleurs-de-lys. the 16th century manuscript omits these fleurs-de-lys. Secondly, Le Mans only has 3 candles historically, but a fourth was added sometime later.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgU9LI0u0reNdbzjGCwrJefkhkIBFcqEufP7vz5N0Xlkv7QcXmZkyYr17Ro6AM38Abshg3oW3sq8q4GAQfGn6nglv3LD0RMCqNJrZXmiWtPrYc4G1ZUEWB4sW_UjwSiBZMle9R8N7X2F8XpYjAhda9TisBN7ycuyf2kFtaNNfA1fh4yTX6vuxWSH704/s320/Le_Mans16.jpg)
16th century Le Mans Coat of arms as listed in the manuscript.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgel-FIqdPuHwH8GuMUsCi0-NMGcvFUNjKjHH5jE4SyIOJxOiHbOn7Ysr12QKC98fjLzHsA6Lai473StnUBsOJjI9z_E8xr1sIUFolWRQ8hbY7cMHc_lKWyKH3TJf-egLZYT1I5m5aER82W8MN1r1INRF3gv5CdfCayuS5ptdjBdci2muIvIsU_d7tq/s320/456px-Le_Mans1870.jpg)
Modern Day coat of Arms. A fourth candle added along with Fleurs-de-lys.
So since it seems the fleurs-de-lis are an addition , along with an extra candle, I will probably paint this pavise as the 16th century version: Blue backing with a Red Cross and white key with three candles.
Here arrives the next problem in the bag: Le Mans is apparently invaded and eventualy on the side that recognizes the English crown as King of France in the 1420s... Should I use this on my soldiers? Do I assume that a few anti-english frenchmen travel south to Tours and join up with the local Angers and Tours military? There's not much on specifics, and there's a lot of story telling that could be told. The one great thing about wargaming (and the curse) is there's often a lot open to "What if's" and "could be" scenarios!
In any case, I have a unit of 12 pavisemen , ten of which will be armed proper with pavise (sadly I dont have enough single spears to make the full unit of 12, but oh well!). My current plan is this:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiYB8VqE5GKHn62BqvK9RbBsECtwO9EoyFc5xrVAeP6i6hAamKgheNYe3OZ5areXj-bsRBbUIHPxOo-JqxRzHs6ODaIwwJrVEsz8OwY9svYp13FC1SvcNQxiyHyZVSZMHMH2qFsKjumsagFVFz5lJbdRLiE-l_3DawwCaxyd-DQPqTbY8jlTeRdFNoB/w514-h640/PaviseShieldPlans15thCenturyManual.png)
Here I've got 9 pavise designs for civic coats of arms I would like to do. There are some that are potentially problematic however.
1) Angers apparently has only 2 fleur de lys. or none, depending on the source. Orleans and Tours seem accurate, though Tours is often shown with a black backing, not blue.
2) Vendome seems historically correct and is also seen on the duke's coat of arms. I've seen it without a crown and both versions are fine to me.
3) Evreux surrenders and throws its doors open to the English - And Amiens and Troyes are also under English domain for a good chunk of time, and even have treaties written under their name. Should they be on French shields if I am using them say in the Siege of Orleans? Le Mans falls in this category too.
4) Rennes is Britanny, and since I have Arthur III in the lot, I wanted some representation from Brittany. I like the Brtianny forces because they essentially end up fighting either sides at some point in the war.
The thing is.. do I worry about crossover? I'm already doing a little bit with Agincourt knights running around in my forces. Who is to say that A few lads from Amiens aren't too keen with Burgundian or English forces hanging around and prefer the Dauphin of France..?
So it's all about deciding which ones I should put on the Ten shields I want to do, and also decide which is accurate or not. Another thought is to make some simple versions - just the Cross of St Dennis, or maybe just generic Fleur-de-lys to represent "France". The Siege of Meaux would also be interesting. There's a Grene and Red Version with a chief of fleurs-de-lys of that city, but there's also a blue and red version without the fleurs-de-lys!
I think the main thing for me to remember too as I have mentioned is that a level of artistic licence has to come into play. To what extent a lot of these blazons were worn into battle is only really shown in art and descriptions!
Thanks for reading my thoughts and process at painting these lads.
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Superb painting... :o
You have a lot of questions and it's not sure everything was so simple at the time.
Pavises designs refer to town militia units, or to important lords heraldry.
Town militias with town pavises would probably only appear near their own town, or exceptionally be sent farther for some reason. Pavises bearers with arms of some lord would follow his orders.
The number of fleurs-de-lys (or of Breton ermine tails) may vary depending on space available, the important thing at the time was easy recognition on the field not the exact number of items.
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Superb painting... :o
You have a lot of questions and it's not sure everything was so simple at the time.
Pavises designs refer to town militia units, or to important lords heraldry.
Town militias with town pavises would probably only appear near their own town, or exceptionally be sent farther for some reason. Pavises bearers with arms of some lord would follow his orders.
The number of fleurs-de-lys (or of Breton ermine tails) may vary depending on space available, the important thing at the time was easy recognition on the field not the exact number of items.
First of all thank you for the kind comment. I try to do my best and take much time to paint to the best of my abilities.
That is also a thing I am wondering. Would a soldier based out of Tours travel all the way with his giant pavise to defend Orleans? I am not certain. In one battle I read about I see that Arthur III switches sides and there is an English invasion into Britanny. he ends up going on a mass recruitment drive to counter the English offence. would those Bretons have brought along their shields? I'm not sure. lol There is much that is left for interpretation but it makes sense that much of the pavise might be a local ordeal.
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Lovely work :-*
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Would a soldier based out of Tours travel all the way with his giant pavise to defend Orleans? I am not certain. In one battle I read about I see that Arthur III switches sides and there is an English invasion into Britanny. he ends up going on a mass recruitment drive to counter the English offence. would those Bretons have brought along their shields?
Aaaargh... ::) I would say that, if you really want it in one of your games, some guys may have done it. Otherwise, people bearing pavises given by their town or by their lord would continue to follow their orders.
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Lovely brush work.
I used Le Mans in my French army and have also added Angers and Tours as they are all in the same region and some may of fought at Baugé, La Brossiniere/La Gravel, St Suzanne, Fresnay, St James and Verneuil, plus the 90 odd sieges around Anjou-Maine, (modern Pays de Loire).
The Bonne city militia were raised in the Bishopric so would include men who were not within the walls but in the Parishes of the Bishopric lands in Anjou-Maine also.
look forward to the progression of your project
cheers
matt
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Lovely figures! Masterful brushwork!
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Lovely brush work.
I really appreciate this wonderful post that you have provided for us. I assure you this would be beneficial for most people
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I love threads like this! Beautiful! :-*
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Lovely brush work.
I used Le Mans in my French army and have also added Angers and Tours as they are all in the same region and some may of fought at Baugé, La Brossiniere/La Gravel, St Suzanne, Fresnay, St James and Verneuil, plus the 90 odd sieges around Anjou-Maine, (modern Pays de Loire).
The Bonne city militia were raised in the Bishopric so would include men who were not within the walls but in the Parishes of the Bishopric lands in Anjou-Maine also.
Thanks for those names. I'll have to check into those areas. I'll most likely stick to the cities I mentioned in my post with the inclusion of Brittany just for something alternative to represent the Brittanny forces.
And thank you all for the kind comments. Glad you all like the work.
I think in the end I'll mix in these different pavise and make it an art project. Part of what I've done on the Knights already is a mix of Agincourt knights as well as Joan of Arc Companions so I'm already all over the place! Even if it makes no sense historically I think art aesthetic will win in the end here.
Recently I released a Youtube Video of my current progress on the latest 6 foot knights WIP. Here that is for anyone interested:
https://youtu.be/ON7KBShBlqM
I hope to finish these ones soon and start prepping the other Mounted Knights. I'll have a few banner carriers in with the cavalry as well.
I plan to include the following named Mounted Knights in some capacity with the next 6 I do.
Louis, Count of Vendôme. This one's going to be madness to get on the tunic, but I plan to try!!!!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Armoiries_Louis_de_Vendôme.svg/545px-Armoiries_Louis_de_Vendôme.svg.png?20160917200211)
La Fayette family ( This French family is very predominate for a long time in France's history, so they're a must have..)
(https://www.internationalheraldry.com/pics/famous/lafayette.gif)
I might just do La Fayette's banner on a shield. I don't have many cavalry shields of the era done up and it would look cool on one.
The banner carriers I'll probably just make generic Knights. I may pick a third for heraldry but I'm not sure what yet. Maybe Jean Poton de Xaintrailles. If I can pull of the Vendome banner freehand somehow, then I can manage his as well, I think!
(http://jean-claude.colrat.pagesperso-orange.fr/armoiries/xaintrailles.jpg)
I'm nervous about doing the lions. I tried on Arthur III of Brittany... He was the first Coat of Arms I did on these models. I think the biggest mistake I made wth him, however, is that I set his red crown with lions a little too low for the surcoat. It shoulld ideally be raised up and slightly covered by the back of his chain armor.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjRL71-5YhgxKJmnBYJ2808FIDp-tRP-dWSj4irXK4NP9SWJ187Mlru0hnstggtTNcEqoFkSvIcm2C0HKmWUer-_6SNAB_byB47kbU5mYDAP9873956Hp1m_ML7bRfUSwD2LGh9aEpSgUoCbyyy4_SiZlRtkOkhKuqZibnMVQsQ9XqzZENZvf724Bka/s4032/2DA34F03-3CFF-406E-85A5-2C4C29C54728.jpeg)
And the lions at the scale are beyond my ability to paint accurately. They're nowhere as detailed as the digital art images of his coat of arms portrays nor in the real world. Still, I think it works and was alright for my first attempt at heraldry on a Knight!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Armorial_de_Gilles_le_Bouvier_BNF_Fr4985_f17v.JPG)
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Great work! I think the lions at that scale are perfect!
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Arthur III of Brittany... He was the first Coat of Arms I did on these models. I think the biggest mistake I made wth him, however, is that I set his red crown with lions a little too low for the surcoat. It shoulld ideally be raised up and slightly covered by the back of his chain armor.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjRL71-5YhgxKJmnBYJ2808FIDp-tRP-dWSj4irXK4NP9SWJ187Mlru0hnstggtTNcEqoFkSvIcm2C0HKmWUer-_6SNAB_byB47kbU5mYDAP9873956Hp1m_ML7bRfUSwD2LGh9aEpSgUoCbyyy4_SiZlRtkOkhKuqZibnMVQsQ9XqzZENZvf724Bka/s4032/2DA34F03-3CFF-406E-85A5-2C4C29C54728.jpeg)
Superb work.
I don't think the lambel is too low. It's true that in another period source it is very high on the shield, but the important thing at the time was easy recognition on the battlefield
(if you really want to be picky, for the same reason they would try to avoid covering the sides of some ermine tails with the three lambel thingies, but that should not stop you).
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Fantastic painting, always nice to see more Scots in France being done!
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Absolutely tremendous work, well done 8)
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wish i could paint freehands like that! beautiful
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That is some really impressive freehand heraldry. They look great!
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Very impressive painted heraldry on those figures!
I also liked the idea of adding feathers from the cavalry set to the helmets of the dismounted men-at-arms. It makes them stand out a bit from the rest, so I think I might try that on some commander figures once I get back to assembling my plastics. However, since the join area is quite small, I am a bit concerned how well these parts will stick to the figure in real life handling - especially since they are quite long items sticking out on top - any experiences?
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I also liked the idea of adding feathers from the cavalry set to the helmets of the dismounted men-at-arms. It makes them stand out a bit from the rest, so I think I might try that on some commander figures once I get back to assembling my plastics. However, since the join area is quite small, I am a bit concerned how well these parts will stick to the figure in real life handling - especially since they are quite long items sticking out on top - any experiences?
Honestly, the plumes arent so bad. I am always way more worried about the weapons breaking than the plumes. Still want to be careful with both plumes and axe shafts! :)
Also, the cavalry set is a tad larger scale wise than their older plastic foot soldiers, so mixing the visors is a bit tough. For the plumes, some of the helmets on the infantrymen wont look as good as the cavalry, so you'll want to try and see which helmet from the foot knight box lines up best with the plumes.
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Hello again everyone. I finished the latest 6 Foot Knights.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEizIGPv4LBUwlfpbqCK2Htv-0WZZC5OgRF9b-Rw1-AJ2LYOQexQ6R20TJdRurLvNWbn4qJ3ZKjjDSljug3yrUtCi8SscRafe2JVIHaicjARpzN7_vKjYiBZJVsYBVmQZiLCLIho3KHs2017Y9_EvnmliY-d7IgiankTiqyl1oiGEcGTstDar1o_JtkA/w640-h480/IMG_9223.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgxMQw3nPuKJidN95Fna94SikV9rOJ4D-c8ZgXqla1JpBgXPHeFUIFrLoBhOmdG3RqDJcHlVNfCh-o6He5spSu0yPyf5m4Cb7lUSKnOuin7VZ8c86dyjKOM0bhkmledaPtOwoM64MX8rOcz1BFyBY9I_le5ZHxuog6Wxwpq6j0vvWPh0ho45k6V_7Xj/w640-h480/IMG_9224.jpg)
Left to right: Jean de Bueil. d'auxy (pierre? John? I forget the name). Generic Green Dude.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEit5SeilNtdP2D0PPzdiuoZULTazseSmEld0GDXM5YzleNJSRGFVBh2TUUwr5Kovcmgvh4elcsmkzXcy8uZMO8gLsf0HroRwgHImkDiWqZxvmNv03jLVyzywGmE-L1ZQuzOfrh25vcHNZDYatPJwKs_mdLVFTBdROnuE5cAb2HiR1NfnSXxwYmX6Jox/s725/IMG_9222.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGiLq38hd956_8yCcZp7BQNz-otjg5i_GIJ7rfdQrjPeJmyceX4iosRX6a7g1J82wHLnGoPL_7v_6ehqSC6YaLmKYCN2chDvTm54L32QdzGjhEzB7KOEDeBa-vk9g2vi3vGQ_3n87Rsmkn5lN4uxn39Su5D_75PnqOtmEV9wfiu1OLXGlqp-D6Zjey/s725/IMG_9225.jpg)
Left to right: d'albret, John Stewart of Darnley (Scottish Commander). Gilles de Rais.
I'm basically set to battle with foot knights anywhere from Agincourt up to the battle of Herrings. ;) I need to finish another two units of mounted Cavalry (more Knights, and sergeants) and then work on the batch of pavise men, crossbowmen, and mixed arm regular infantrymen.
I see a lot of people do circle bases for skirmish games, but I really like the old rank and file for anything that isn't totally in the colonial to modern era.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimP8yojqpIXFqGenGmma7zeFyaftSf3eMlla9e-i8gIK7L52QRh1_WmvZ4GlNMrTf7stqGXBKQzk2PdalgJt6BPqlMEpIeH4M5tZhRdlPXQQuah6lqVfm6Jc8G_uC-otaayKCPOlXE_hw_cUIKgBIrObvkFLQnZK_Sta5L259Lh-GddLyCrk-Gi8qI/s725/IMG_9221.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEixjDhv2gW8pxhQKFz_m7dBLToftnX4VIdQxHaJwWC9LhL3vqjsVH_FpQb1y1ldZQeL45mlFkenAy1C3gDpFNNnCEX2zR-9aceLb5egNeh9JdwKCU8rrqUOpH-H1mU_Bud1NtIF3JqwVuaAE-hyf9q4wobCEZN44CmNAE-nF_gQVIEQfgxonV1qKfUh/s725/IMG_9226.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiQhhNvP_5Vq-wZm7hQQqo5m3VtRKvgkS9NynUkOklf0hun2VaYepZP7PQ-PuyQVL-8gSVZgxrcbsHy6xf6CPb_2z_wsox6b42nagzX_qmLLbXq8P96DjhPUVLc-doVFycwa9ssEpPKvwSAnRiw_Ym-6600ZMsRBgiA3AbYoZS-yl7_WVtSDoKfcisg/s725/IMG_9227.jpg)
That's all for now! I'm working on my next Kickstarter and that requires me to do up a few odds and ends to show off some decals on shields, but after that I should be back to some more Cavalry, including Standards. I'm going to be using full on flags instead of the short banners they were carrying around in the era because they look a tad more epic in my opinion. Cheers!
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That really is superb painting, alongside some very helpful posts.
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Impressive freehand on the liveries - superb!
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Very Cool!
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Lovely work on those
For your green chap add a d'or chevron and you have the family prévost.
Cheers
Matt
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Very nice foot knights. :-* :-*
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Thanks everyone! Looking forward to getting on to the next lot of this project but I've got another decal Kickstarter I plan to launch again very soon. :)
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This is freehand of the highest order!! just outstanding :-*
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Your heraldry work is simply stunning! Very nice work with some super tiny check work.
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These are lovely!
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Thanks for the kind and awesome comments everyone! I'm on to the next lot, and here's just the beginning.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiLZ9_IQYB1pNH1UWjz4En_JfMKMgS3AUmWM1s0OOf0WEDJcxy2J9FEmCcoMS8n55vIRsgB3dp3K18KL5asGBN4XauD-mG6jRZ4LHVH6q1_rEmW1kqYl5m0FA_CmBe9ixGthbmv1M-CWmtQ_RwvKzF-x3pKc3bddZqg8nvuGirdElctlVWIfqt9mfXo/w640-h480/292379461_1106545039943918_4437622314023562111_n.jpg)
On the left, I will have a banner bearer in a generically red with white cross overcoat. He'll be carrying Louis Comte de Vendome's banner.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjorR2nA64XEmMG8sHLunwZUtBkeSDiPcIAI8DVoMtdgAdX3Fs6ltwcPT25j5dpaKgmYmpTC5mRfxVNwlT7v4ddxKURAJbiMyA9KyHEx67NpjpYb6jQ2WRdvulch9UFzvuVGNpN_wuBxR14FXhzAAxBxbptpnDynC5ap6S5XDRNT9vd_HS5w4yBs9Z/w480-h640/292130416_378581191047573_3904820627472454920_n.jpg)
Then on the right, I have a member of the La Fayette Family. He'll be in plate mail but his coat of a rms will be on a shield. I tried the design on his horse's bridle cloth but I am not sure on it yet.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgd_uYuuerN7brQ3GywYGhFZ6rLQEahCZ8hxC09TQeQlBAzz1_TGG64vEQAKhFIOiDfm9xAhbDwJyboaKWTWQoL3UFRo47UsXmhNhSqI7CoBGelNfxf4z1rwHkMobq6l4J12WdZiDWNzHEdDtdsY6tsDDJnpWnx2ftrZNA4IQCxzPLTMKtF-ITB9NAP/s1600/lafayette.gif)
In the middle, a generic knight quartered in Yellow and blue.
In the back middle, I'm going to do Viscount William II of Narbonne. He has a half shirt so I won't put heraldry on his tunic or body (apparently they were often just coloured plain or had some orange design, but oft didn't have heraldry) , but his shield will be the red and white quarters with trees. This guy is involved with some Aragonese / Sicilian issues in the southern part of France and that area I believe, but ends up dying in 1424 fighting the English.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjsARrA2kEg1Iq_BapLc8EmTdteG4o40T-bnl0cm0qE8MaJ1A-Gx3PQAC6rANzKJQgx-Zm7XJekFTMccOOAgi9L4GkHmzUhAMP5SIDzTtMjFgNWUEQHmH6mR-hypAbrtszGL1vis-ZK2eOlnAEHAlbRrJzlmMMyv4yRhcNIPRGExoK_4TXYTwCFZscB/s1600/Arborea_coat-of-arms.svg.png)
On the right there in the back, Louis Comte de Vendome... his heraldry is going to be challenging to do at that scale, but I am going to attempt it.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgi7dunH2s2UkSQzmaxJqcggjLKT9sy8vxrISd03Cm4hlEXfpR_8CFMdgT_39tAqLrH0CwVbuuBBerglRWD11SS3Iiag_UULlVBL_zf4_P7Ea51VXPtxh98AHxPY6hfYo_9bVM-zTN76EmtC16Qxrxg2IPoVbSF55GC-oaIZFxxhTwRTs_4we8JGcDC/s1600/images.jpeg)
(http://And finally, I front on the right I am going for a generic French Bannerman.. he will be carrying a Fleurs-de-lys banner, which is just the generic 3 images. He's going to be decked out in mostly Blues to show how noble he is. I may include 3 a series of Fleurs-de-lys on his clothing.)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhOb75QX8lksqOg2_R7T2o78Rh5l0-X1KCZ2R1q9fRgiLxTabGcVXcfZ1cMHiKh0PoX0twTgsiBq5dfubIHsgqA6uH5AwmYdPZns89wKdKwVILnKY54P6pXvJuoDKWvqJz1Z_Z7AYoCKw7iUYKxM06_38EXmcMUYLU38ZPfpsl4dv6msIEJhiwA2nuy/s320/291071522_737252643996808_6723738404830941204_n.jpg)
After these are done then my Heavy Knightly Cavalry will be complete. I will still have 6 final horsemen to do, but they'll be generic sergeants and won't have such fancy looking heraldry.
For anyone interested in seeing more on this, I started doing VLOGS on my YouTube Channel as well - but since I like sharing here on the Lead Adventure Forum, I thought I'd do a write up on it as well.
https://youtu.be/Xa1pd5ldFxw
Today I also purchased some new toys... This shot is from North Star Military Figure's Facebook page and contains War-games Illustrated Giant's in Miniatures newest model: Harry Hotspur.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjARfOc8g26bekgvu0j6xpiPhjtOcKtjL1bIEpGw97AtHPKfHsH-Igl96kfyrjMw_59SJzihe1QsOs5I3CHq4uVSX0KABv3C0crFqFciuDGp8aW_bB1SJl1d7oNor0vngreZxL0ZTPJZXl1Pk40THiE08I4jcHvxJkuilFLgTcVWW8CNxNPPEdo3KDg/w640-h554/293068798_5887036234658563_594177255353308313_n.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSm8s9SAZ-Q_MAmokVsBEBAfHNiIMxQ4bWa7zR2x4wB5Fz8EuHZgflk0LaE209cZB-uZOabdV5WG_AvAawQYnQoN8Hv45rmJV2xhxcjx0_fyYuWS3P37UU0zDDqddRqGDNCk9eHmjGC26Is3MIgfzchqd_ZfxtX7OL75XG6XBsl4p3vuTWZ9Y0HPF2/s320/291341064_1246873062741590_4190730424819055761_n.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzoVUYphiMXqU6AAAPcY-JgEP9L-YoVdb3SaIP7450rf_9AyksmPq6YufW8dHgbVwTrMCu7DG3HLXUP1egVriH5uTeH1Jv5ULcZQ3cZsldQhU1RSz8au6QHRznEHaA9MVedFbYAhPF1W70lohtIZTWIxXYfBx014J4QIQp7PCG2lz8NsYe-u6vtvjQ/s320/293016348_5887036194658567_4194113890117047744_n.png)
I think his get up fits in perfectly for the 1390s - 1420s, which is what I'm essentially going for.
I also decided to get John Hawkwood from War-games Illustrated's Giant of Miniatures line.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiGs_XblTaZ_g0BnvXg5KzWYV13IEuBX9Fq_76SU3r-wsMfj2gIGVfEEjuNzTSXkFrCtoVK_IZ1I-tDMvIc41ddVfod42_nxhSL-HYP7riIJfB4nCH8X6A3YiwSMyzK24gZuqNaisldLk8xwUHTrO-zEMkXFtgGRvpZ7IM0W-QKcnMNHcZglEuJq-tl/s320/292391695_722206462185362_1025034795083015402_n.jpg)
Now, if you look up these two individual's histories and art / statues of them, you'll easily find where the minis are modelled after. Hotspur dies in something like 1403, so his get up is fitting. But I noticed that John Hawkwood's career is going down earlier than the 1390s... yet, the sculptor of this figure designed him with quite heavy plate. From my understanding the agincourt level plate mail started coming out in the later part of the 14th century and eventually evolves into even better parts as the 15th century roles along, but I noticed something:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQkAQuy-hwEQZ8rn08ZaAMMavUwWN2RLaAXeMgrmiuKuO_3KARR4Af98UrTs5bsqGWZpzT7mrJEgTO0yM05b_YZJjN96YMAuvH5YaGfScRsfYthgCTYGjpprQVGo_hJI6P6Al8qAtXNsPiTysrwplKGTTNxWSISqKxAXhwW1NjpI8jfKfuKeNDpLJM/s320/291840645_2336594443148385_3475379972979740143_n.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh3Bx5Zrq6O0Dy4XzOMDWRR5X1g-Mhes9AqNClngsujFqzpTEv5_P_fKBa5y29wui6kI68Kd66cn--SvtyIce7j3izsEXFd3CGPHJ4K659YP-Gddq5YeRuC2Sgg09wNuao29M9PlFyczQNpmPfA5Gzc8df7wpjyvR9rtqhrwq036nHjzcW7Tz7T9mwW/s320/Paolo_Uccello_044-2.jpg)
This art piece, which the model is clearly influenced by, come up around 1436 ( fresco by Paolo Uccello), and I think for the 1430s the armor is very fitting - but would John Hawkwood, running around in Italy and France, be wearing this sort of gear? Often you see art done by an artist in a late period an their art ends up being anachronistic because they give, lets say, the Romans Full medieval plate or something of their era. I'm of the opinion his fresco here has been represented using more 15th century partial armor instead of the transitional armor going around in the mid 1300s... although, benefiting me of course, is that since it appears to be much closer to the era I'm actually gaming, he looks much more suitable for the siege of Orleans or something later than the 1350s to 60s! John here also takes part in a few battles of into the 1380s and 90s, so it could be, I suppose, appropriate.
In any case, I'll find use for them somewhere. I just thought they'd both sit alright with the project. My only concern is they might be a tad larger than the Perry plastics, but I guess we will find out soon! They are cool alternative models to use for this project.
That's it for now. I still have a lot to do and I'll probably share again later when these guys are closer to completion and jump back and forth between these lads and Romans.. haha.
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this gets better and better :-*
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Those knights look absolutely gorgeous and I can't wait to see more.
And about Hotspur and Hawkwood (the H-gang?) I don't think that size will be much of an issue. Sure, they might be a little bit taller, but they don't look like they're too much taller to not just be a pair of taller guys.
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Tremendous paintwork. Really well done :-*
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Thanks again for the words of encouragement everyone. Been slow going since I've been focusing on business / recently launched a Decal Kickstarter that I also shared here on the forums.
And about Hotspur and Hawkwood (the H-gang?) I don't think that size will be much of an issue. Sure, they might be a little bit taller, but they don't look like they're too much taller to not just be a pair of taller guys.
Seems you are absolutely correct, Dolnikan. In fact, the minis match up much greater than I expected even with the plastic Perry miniatures.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhih0ul9uXsMKndcCpHvgqi1iumXsyuD9pjQPU04tHTFSAgzu1XQXPXiGO1688FBE1ciFSjzqnCami7htgDYvyHd8p64OWv3jfG3ctxV7I4o1HUaM3hSgKAd3YCPG2OBZ58-_KILiuhcPHJUlRkPKPgANHfp9mGH3tgcbbHOUJVoqKliWltgPUbMQK-/s2048/296323306_543532730848008_5184335804123478889_n.jpg)
I was expecting much larger / bulky proportions but it turns out that both will fit in nicely and aren't too clunky to fit in well with the army. Quite pleased with the both of them.
I've got number 11/500 of John Hawkwood... they make 500 of each of these Giants. Hotspur was #63 out of the lot, but it seems almost nobody is buying Hawkwood? shame since I see a lot of potential for him in 15th century armies!
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I've got number 11/500 of John Hawkwood... they make 500 of each of these Giants. Hotspur was #63 out of the lot, but it seems almost nobody is buying Hawkwood? shame since I see a lot of potential for him in 15th century armies!
Sorry I meant to respond to this earlier - you are right it's a sculpt with lots of potential. And I only became aware of it from this thread, so thank you for that! I promptly bought one and converted it into a late 15th century standard bearer.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicxYcm-pmMuSGQbZ3I6NJN71NzKt6XZ6lji5w8xMaZY3vqVJaRAZOj0QU83rYllXJBmd78pH9EPrpXhaUHAf-Yqov4Cb3-bZE3b9adRHW_YkOP5TAOf4gWRmDpMwJdFhMfm0uizjcaNRqZiei29EuekQ2QytVNd6uLuScsqfv6ob5r0J5K_1EIfxrI/s528/giantsinminiature2.JPG)
Perhaps the only people that are aware of these miniatures are Wargames Illustrated subscribers?
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Sorry I meant to respond to this earlier - you are right it's a sculpt with lots of potential. And I only became aware of it from this thread, so thank you for that! I promptly bought one and converted it into a late 15th century standard bearer.
Perhaps the only people that are aware of these miniatures are Wargames Illustrated subscribers?
Hey! I saw your share of this one on Facebook. Glad I was able to bring up awareness. Funny, I was showing my wife your converted image the other day - It looks excellent and welll done on changing it - though I think I'm going to let my mini of Hawkwood keep his head!
I also think the mini itself, as I was mentioning, is certainly sculpted after the 1436 artwork of Hawkwood, which means he has a more 15th century aesthetic going around him. Personally, I think this artistic image represents him better for the late 14th century when he was active.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/88/b0/e488b0da40dd53510c69cdc9a1ced237.jpg)
Therefore you converting him to represent a soldier from 1450-1500 makes much more sense. It looks much more appropriate this way, so again, well done! I think for myself I'll be using him to represent a Savoyard or Piedmont noble of some sort when I get to do the Burgundian wars.
I found out about these models because I follow Wargames Illustrated on their Facebook page. Sometimes some of their models sell out insanely fast - Their 300 Spartan Leonidas model or their caesar mini were gone quick (I was lucky to get both). Meanwhile, Hawkwood doesn't seem to be on everyone's agenda for painting. He's not exactly a Joan of Arc or El Cid historically so I guess it would take more time to sell out (though they also have Joan of Arc that's still up for sale on their collection. Personally I didn't get her, because I prefer the Perry horses over Wargames Illustrated ones!) I feel their minis are hit or miss, regardless. Hotspur and Hawkwood just worked out well for the 15th century projects. =)
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I also think the mini itself, as I was mentioning, is certainly sculpted after the 1436 artwork of Hawkwood, which means he has a more 15th century aesthetic going around him.
Absolutely, he is waring late 15th century armour without a doubt!
Though I couldn't give a more specific dating of it.... Could it be as early as 1436? Possibly... I've got a feeling the rondels on the elbows wouldn't be seen on late 15th century Italian armour, they're perhaps an older feature, but the large pauldrons definitely are more post 1450.
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Absolutely, he is waring late 15th century armour without a doubt!
Though I couldn't give a more specific dating of it.... Could it be as early as 1436? Possibly... I've got a feeling the rondels on the elbows wouldn't be seen on late 15th century Italian armour, they're perhaps an older feature, but the large pauldrons definitely are more post 1450.
I cannot really state the date with absolute certainty. 1436 is the earliest and mentioned date I found based on my research, but based on your reasoning it does seem that the artwork could have come out much later than the 1430s if you look at the gear he is wearing. It's also to my understanding that the first signs of Gothic and advanced Milanese plate just started to emerge during that time, sometime in the 30s, and would perhaps not yet be mainstream used. It's really hard to know sometimes as the dates on some historical pieces might actually be incorrect. To me the Hawkwood artwork looks like gear that would not exist during the early 15th century, that is for sure!
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I've been working on the other Knights lately, and most of their base coats are done, but I'm on the most challenging of the lot now, which is Louis, Comte de Vendome.
I've made him fairly fancy with his golden armor pieces and I am going to give him his full on coat of arms over armor.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjKezZUZh8ZB0wtvbBzJesWDLxdtvapuB4f2Ac8Hsm_d8os2_kg0VAWMgPhNgLiQSVWlKFjIzL16e5ozaRiiks7szN-5H1rCjLs2ilNc3obZUmlgcMEdR2hG9VAodkTPx9qVH9vkFj-BwNpFK2mc9DM88ToTEYYQPE4RwDjCszWHafGeiTk1nTblX20/s2048/294586033_782141839802462_2139590837449761384_n.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimEBqd0X0KNlCc9XjYkmFUeVQt7Y1qvVfAjmU2tyHyEhHd7glTPJyuto-PsjrrceeHJaPod3z3t28A2BhVnXsVOG4g-Ng1PZzJhKnUzLqrHyzKlCXC9YlwiyIKf8cm4kQx5uBvjPi7yfPo2L48TQsRyeozdhv6ogFJEVGnbVwd9rE_rMFOlkozR8id/s2048/300550012_428582252424483_5931746717761978441_n.jpg)
He'll also have one of his retinue, a battle standard bearer, follow him around on horseback. That man-at-arms will be carrying his banner, which I got from GMB designs.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiQHZ1C-jawDgq5cJl1lbBu3HYMzPa-kKE5NiTtMiGooO87lhrae-AArVX_StSTQuDr2czI5C0AD976yfytoHOvfYrsK6hk7ac-156q4l2Ksq2mqjQse6ZW41xZ-pQztf_zfQhTjpAah5Ehq28lTo80GCTduQbfpttk0guRWJfbTJoScq2R9k7rJfye/s2048/299711668_448744497312583_1756696597278112309_n.jpg)
I'm practicing tiny lion calligraphy before I throw it on the coat of arms. I'm in need of practice with freehand at this scale and don't want to just jump right into it like I did with Arthur III - I'd like to make them as nice as possible. I make good use of all those extra renedra bases I wont use for a while.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgauMgqXtFZu0bDXCfrfNcU4g8PtZqlc3JIb-uvN2DUs74hAihLfXtTW1myrsBl1aFxDXUIed-7YmX5Rku88eZ_N5Jb9QLVc5cctCKZCk_g4KBF-hEwlCkNaEn4wMmgpr_0XLdELnWjp6c6GJ74bBEY4oCrB8hf0ynqu_LCWSSPcIiw3xFO3ogUXGp6/s2048/300816712_611822756997401_2673721865754699475_n.jpg)
A question does arise while painting this man nn regards to Heraldry - I think I've painted the count correctly on his clothing - the front and back will both match each other depicting the bLue Vendome Lion rampant facing leftwards. My question is for the flag - When I fold and close it overtop of the Man at arms banner pole , the Right side of the flag will have the lions facing left, but the other side of the flag will be facing right. Basically one side is opposite the other.
So actually two questions arise - Did medieval banners look like this? I know they weren't using flags in those days - but would one side of the banner be opposite the other depending what direction you looked at it?
Another question also - for heraldry on tabards, tunics, and different cloth would the direction of the heraldry reverse? to me it makes sense, in the case of the Count of Vendome here, to have both the front and the back of his heraldry on cloth facing leftwards, as no matter where you stand you'd essentially have the same direction.
And what about horse Caparison? Would heraldry reverse on the left and right side of the horse like the flag does? does it sit like Bretonnian Knights are displayed? I think I've seen both methods represented - so I am not sure if there is a correct way or not to display coats of arms on flags or horses. Any opinions or sources or input greatly appreciate as I move onwards with continued painting. :) Thanks everyone.
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I think you're right, the flag will be 'reversed' on one side, whereas the surcourt / tabard etc will not be.
But the horse caparison... I don't actually know!
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My understanding is that, for both flags and the caparisons on horses, the device on the knight's heraldry (if it faces a certain direction and is not symmetrical) always faces "forward" and therefore would be reversed on one side. As you've correctly done on the surcoat/jupon, this reversing does not happen - the heraldic device always faces the same way on both the front and back.
Edited to say that I'm looking forward to seeing your finished Count of Vendome. All of your models to date have been top notch and your heraldry is beautiful!
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Great work - can't wait to see more!
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Hello everyone. I have been fairly busy with work, fulfilling Kickstarter's, prepping the next ones, and working on various projects including commissions but I finally got around to finishing the latest 6 Knights.
I found it somewhat hard to take clear photos tonight, so I'll share the best I have. I will probably add more from games later on!
Louis, Count of Vendome and friends.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjIzLJ7CelWy8wnBk0k1b_fvjTaf8FF6_De4o6TGess7ZEgrcZYqGRTnMvc1zqKW1P81T1y7DibjRSaWD4otNjg1k1cj8YlcijU7ZKXLRHTB8U2Zow9jMsqYPu69u80eV8_AdbhkG8jh5w7KuEHg-DxYvjtcwiiYARkznX8Wn3uoykL9GV5oj3SvfVw/s320/image00002.jpeg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhUEi11k-hLG7UZaHHU_e_13KY2Ny8amRTkN4DSm15fvrWgk5bv5Vtvxb33cQAksCtovkRIf5fFHPIzRdzsngID5Dgf57P5QSL0sBfUQb99mavJGWvaTyE_rwgmHaQmtHOna4Q4iZhocDucUdLeGdtuuxgbw70uKxO-R1xLg6LwtdphzqKK2_fYk2Bo/s320/image00004.jpeg)
Some other Knights and nobles.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiKcAKgK6-LkUB-9faOLvKDhhCvvGoRlem_MhEFfmsUUuqg6fnftySJlAzX1kz_IgURVp5jBgPpYiFV-RiSwDGqjB4KUCJcZfol6YJSYB1_sOZD1KvYSOYphDK81ssAoJvUi6kfyBgC2lxbGwqGO_1PCHbPV6wPdKGle0U2MqvCSIq17M8Ix6PfyEGN/s320/image00008.jpeg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg9HP_EuvXqHx7I8lubRvUh0rNJMsAEOLDxVAwvvVQ-1vsrOxPlpb0UZE8WvgBSBYna7fl4kzrM1dfxQZkN7Pf2-On8II1iXw3kchm9QJlBLqOcDA5qyRvnt05VJCK5bev9WvtAN74ez7dRcbiwTZJRpB_faLLz8XW7Nl7quTq0zk7xoniy-DD5voW7/s320/image00009.jpeg)
One of the La Fayette family.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi4POcILPVlKG1qfOkDevE3I218efxnEcrC2TwgzxNHyg7icFX_GLDRtscYcnMyibK5kGz_zEz_Hx1kvIJeX6SRiwoO8kLcYm-419PsEOcxpHNogsxlSKux55kthOohbx5ETgKK3xWT8TnD8DYNiVpKWrlVdKI8Xpaj-9SIRg_Ilq7YygWyT6Xukq72/s320/image00010.jpeg)
William II Viscount of Narbonne
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjtDxOAh4R7tFU_uc5wJqn9dhmuJnjMkAo4W4G8Q2xq6wYQOQGk8On5bb1oCQOXvnRyv8UStgcH2ycAYl0lcObbEbBDuRoDbyTsD-NWtXb9AnbGoeQDcclrwFXfe7X3Ce3bT9dQ9Pol0RTfMN2ss7n53dtoFKN7bn4S04VBfMUq6gTqaHWGmXEkQasj/s500/image00012.jpeg)
The whole unit all together.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg0YZzdjkV7pwwPLGaC_DWQKhx6LWkg1m36rMvD2b1ruSmzZgwLlE2pZosBLk6veLjBUBwJPTJClt3i-31O9duUU6MwcW6y0K54lA5YvfVjSQukdyATVwzI2IDgoDFlu4WGEfy8QgaNDjldjiFDhVkLd-D1smicyIEZYhZLFO_SO5gGQNtNMRxhrKVJ/s400/image00015.jpeg)
I found it hard to take some quality images, so I'll share these for now. Otherwise, I've got them up on YouTube if anyone's interested in checking out the whole lot and me babbling on about my personal project. https://youtu.be/fpNaY-1g7x4
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Lovely :-*
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Great work. :-* :-*
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Masterful Conversion and brushwork!
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Thanks everyone. I've just started up on the infantry division of men that aren't considered foot knights or higher end men-at-arms. I'm calling them "Foot sergeants" based off the old Lion rampant game terms. They're essentially just heavy infantrymen (not the elites) or whatever they're called now in Lion Rampant 2. I forget.
The first 12 Perry lot will include mixed arms, so soldiers with two handed axes / polearms and sword and buckler men. These are meant to represent the heavy infantry that are "experts" in the game, which if I recall, lower their defensive stats but gain bonus to attack rolls. I'll start with 6 -7 then add the rest after I get a feel on how I want to paint them up. Following that I'll finally get to either crossbowmen or shield men. . though I have an itch to paint some ancients as well so there might be little breaks in between each project to work between the two. :)
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Hey everyone - been a bit since I shared but I got some more models down over time. I've been very busy working on Kickstarters for decals and am currently on to another topic (outside heraldic devices) that I will release soon, but I still use / play with my Hundred Years War stuff. Still planning to add to this project - but here's the latest.
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/338263440_539090098346082_8617087190040150048_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=FbqIfg4SdR4AX9KkxBz&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBoblVXCLzhNEG_YuMu-VUmNzCfBv6Rw3W2m6SagQmIxw&oe=6466AD58)
This lad I based off some of the art in the Perry Booklet that comes with the box kit
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/337845203_174856298308287_6108162867105878200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=qQ6I9w2hCt4AX_UfgL2&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAatmT2snjzsxSKn4Q6BcteCMMHwcwFyTjHeBINdVVlSQ&oe=6466E05C)
The same goes for this lad, Perry art inspired:
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/338409884_919734182692302_1984770798467265915_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=3dCi9cMyOBwAX9PIX_z&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDDqyG9Be-2E9PBl7IkQcIft8iz74lh0u-_yk2R5G8Paw&oe=646656FE)
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/338675472_1075970876692628_2390808225665596745_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=F9FdfhRToDwAX_Kn2KZ&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAXlbgRH97RRSwywCILHlX0Gb2ei1boNJsruj_ugBW7ww&oe=64664AB8)
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/338027526_546232334162396_5117541915255858862_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=ZGZWKD40ERYAX8bgduC&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAhfivTRQ_Hv4kcxywPmJ3UTkfcl2BMjBm7fYuFD-HxDw&oe=646558E6)
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/338697410_127333163641486_4104540029423989632_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=MhY7C61zULMAX-lS42A&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfD6wfY_J6OGusCpfP7LHdaeiNkWTMuu_beTxo05f0OHgg&oe=64665595)
This one I based off of the de Caron family - I think it was Pierre the Grand.
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/338252227_1401251073973360_2715111052847586858_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=2kx2sr1He3UAX8d8H_e&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBYQV9cVH7a7FcSKzCSfXrc6IWPDrx-vbSWT_Xgs20mKA&oe=64668397)
I also had some games with BazookaJoe using Lion Rampant. Here's some shots from that. English Vs French.
My Knights charge some archers held up on a bridge.
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346652407_250454840873025_5184757579892921780_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=6Oiza66MVRcAX_16X0g&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDx89StDhYnMyF0C1CwdfSa0XYRJzln426H-fvaTjC77A&oe=64655CF6)
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346648531_6970111716337336_1888073081709906816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=8WNYtySTA0IAX8DQohU&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCHH7CjrDmMGebSqb46vBhy6sIwKIK4ZbuXO6-kn1cjpQ&oe=64663815)
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346784839_588303293397247_4607254611698043221_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=mtn9fAFWkhwAX-_4b0x&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA7ccsX0uQxUk55xWmqT8jfJm013zjN-DTLmccfJI2S8A&oe=6465A402)
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346464643_1547779962378916_204747209036114696_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=TMgIdsx0ADkAX91aVDx&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDDamOWqGGjQ8VDIsHtjB6b5_oBFt6hxhm850jtdBOm9w&oe=6466DB64)
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346990225_6175417802527790_8579562648280356666_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=aNjLwVQpreYAX9NWlAm&_nc_oc=AQkAkK-zb6kABinU8sC6LWyIUodvHT4VbP7-mT1oJP5od1YcyBmTWIxapzlUmn4BGHo&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfD0-rRYzSH-I10XI5p5kZ_A4mrjYuAa_tP3b7UUEfpO-A&oe=6465C6EB)
Mixed up some troop types to create variety for this unit of "Veteran heavy infantry".
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346860025_243137804976822_5767941820901027402_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=XVQFEymX8SQAX98uco-&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBysYuuBQqGKxWVPekOddQDnGfg7mwbJpYNj5JvuLpB8w&oe=646523F5)
Mixed infantry fighting each other.
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346813925_958026068955068_1702921511015564540_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=4Ip128LQipkAX9aDlSH&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAkyN7sodJlNsd5D7fAiKasSS1KFtymAXa6X84F5YY_lQ&oe=64652386)
Elite Foot Knights holding the hill.
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346668149_1653882368384491_6964834318867378515_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=eahebh09tIMAX-iAPGX&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC5DBIT0pAfXLIDWSuNIVpGEfW57BOzhErX0t8jfaZqQw&oe=646581A7)
Street Brawls.
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346795115_539984661670443_1759030416960916411_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=NRJ9Af8COY0AX_yU5QS&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBtHTYyjYuNmZ4Ad1fZNbJ3BWBgmdxKhT1vMnpEi9tLBw&oe=64662919)
BazookaJoe's older Perry mounted metal models. Really love these figures.
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346647568_1219242662065219_2818573627925284268_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=tTXf7qxu15kAX9ky3Ff&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDTz74_Cv8YjKOG54VE6i2kHAVVk3JxB_mNPc2LgksmVA&oe=64652339)
I like to compare the newer plastics vs the old metals. They both have so much flavour and Perry did such an excellent job on both types of minis.
(https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346638887_476136611362536_1947828188575227426_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=rA4aBlXVp2UAX-r4qDE&_nc_ht=scontent.fyka1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCjhc7lbGVEC_fMp8o13jWdVJRWOjZQIh7gC5ARLZ9gcw&oe=646617B6)
Thanks all! Til next time...
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Lovely. :-* :-* :-*
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They really do look great.... excellent painting and choice of colours. Well done!
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Lovely figures 8)
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Great painting :-*
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Masterful brushwork!