Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Jjonas on June 07, 2022, 07:43:26 PM
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I know there was a recent post about a new range of 3D printed Indians coming out. I have been working on the Aventine elephant to match my Vendel one I finished earlier. I use 1st Corps and Newline Designs as well as some Old Glory 25/28's to fill out my collection. Sadly Aventine has only done their yummy elephants and crews and very nice accouterments. They say on their website to look at "The Miniatures Company" for foot and cavalry- but they are defunct.
Thistle and Rose also has the Vendel range in large 28mm.
My question will be for new ranges is how do they fit with these?
(Top) Here is an assortment of 1st Corps and Newline Designs figues mixed with Old Glory (sorry not my best photo).
(Bottom) Here is a peak at the Aventine elephant in progress. It is the bomb diggity.
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To add to the story about Aventine. If you check their website you currently will find the Indian crews, but no unarmoured elephants. I dropped a note to them last Sunday and Keith told me that they are being prepared for 3D printing and should be back in the store later this month. Unfortunately the sculptor doesn't want to do any more Indians, which is a bit of a shame as the elephant crew he produced look superb.
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Aventine's are the best I have seen for crewmen. Indians get the short stick in ancients for a number of reasons. A lot of their troops are repetitive and somewhat lackluster looking. Their best troops are elephants and heavy chariots, and the Mauryan army (which is the most competitive) lacks detailed history against western foes. So Chandragupta does not get the good press of that "ultimate loser" Hannibal* and therefore lacks the cool scenarios that people wish to refight.
Here are some Newline figures that were on the bench. The later sculpts are in useful and sturdy poses, larger, and have good detail compared to some of the 28's that are scaled up from 20mm sculpts.
Currently until convinced, I am going with these, mixed with 1st Corps, because not everybody is tall.
(*LOL)
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By the way, I have more detailed set of photos of the Aventine elephant project at, if interested:
https://www.facebook.com/PtolemyI
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Jjonas, thanks for the photo of Newline figures in a "primed" state. I find Newline a bit "hit and miss". Their Hittites are very nice but their Sea Peoples for instance, are IMHO pretty terrible. Also the photos of painted figures doesn't always do them justice. I'm quite taken with the ones you show. Not as good as the best sculpts out there but pretty passable. How do they match size-wise with 1st Corps?
Thanks
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You can see some 1st Corps archers in the back rows. I find they look good in units side by side. The main difference are poses and the amount of assembly for the 1st Corps. I will try to do a better line up for sizes.
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How do they match size-wise with 1st Corps?
Here are some side by side photos of Newline mixed in with 1st Corps (not all were painted by me, some by a painting service, which I touched up).
The ones with the bigger heads and beards are 1st Corps. The tribals are two of each.
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Wouldn't the man holding the banner at the back of the elephant fall off in real life? Maybe in a parade he'd be okay.
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"Wouldn't the man holding the banner at the back of the elephant fall off in real life? Maybe in a parade he'd be okay."
I agree he is in a precarious spot!. I moved that model forward a bit more so it isn't so close to the rump. Still a lot of these models don't take much consideration about that. We know that modern riders have more support ropes and straps than are depicted in artwork. However most artwork has a yoke rope that allows something to grab onto. But not all. Some art shows the banner dude just sitting. However many miniatures don't follow this middle yoke rope design.
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Some very useful pics. The Aventine nellies are magnificent, of course - but I might be tempted to use only 3 riders on each, and spread 2 crew packs over 3 beasties.
I'm planning to do a Gupta-ish army first as part of a long term 300AD project (Romans are on the painting table, Germans and Persians are down the road, some day.) Aside from using eastern Sassanids/steppe chaps in place of chariots and generic Indian cav, are there any things I should be thinking about?
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MDS Indians are still available from Miniature Figurines. Foot only though.
http://www.miniaturefigurines.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx?ScaleID=19&CategoryID=54&SubCategoryID=272
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That link above does not work.
However the Blitzkrieg models of Indian foot are now posted.
So I will order a sample. The mace men look very nice. Their heads and proportions seem better. When I get some I will see how compatible they are unless others show them off. From what I’ve seen on other postings they are very thick and large - so I’m hoping these are closer to my figures in size. Also we will see how much postage this sets me back.
For some reason this link doesn’t go to their Indians either.
https://www.blitzkriegminiatures.com
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From what I understand Blitzkrieg will soon have the Indian elephants (3 different), heavy and light chariots, cavalry, skirmishers/escorts, guardsmen and characters.
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Indeed, when I enquired I was told they would be out this week.
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Do please try the link that Bythelee placed. Iit opens in my computer.
I edited the post so let me know if you can view it.
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It wasn't opening on my phone but it's easy enough to find:
http://miniaturefigurines.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx?ScaleID=19&CategoryID=54&SubCategoryID=272
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Do please try the link that Bythelee placed. Iit opens in my computer.
I edited the post so let me know if you can view it.
I still get a broken link. I went to:
http://www.miniaturefigurines.co.uk/Home.aspx
Then scrolled down to:
http://www.miniaturefigurines.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx?ScaleID=19&CategoryID=54
and then select:
http://www.miniaturefigurines.co.uk/images/catalogue/MDSAI05.jpg
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Back to Blitzkrieg and the Mighty Empires 3D sculpts. These look interesting. As I said, I will need to see them next to my figures to see.
The Mace men are my favorites because other ranges only have the big massive clubs, and they are fun to add into a group to add interest.
https://www.blitzkriegminiatures.com/tanks/Indian-Armoured-Macemen-Pack-28mm-p456224838
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I have a small pile of Indians from The Miniature Company. Yours if you want them, but... I'm in the US.
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I have a small pile of Indians from The Miniature Company. Yours if you want them, but... I'm in the US.
Hi LeadAsbestos
I saw your note. I don't know how many more Indians I will paint, but I would like to see what "The Miniature Company" ones look like in person. Please let me know what you wish to give up and what your want for them and postage and we can make a deal. I like variety and I know some of their figures had a lot of character to them.
You can send me a PM on the board's My Message section.
Thanks
Jeff
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I still find the resin Elephants from Vendel, now owned by the Thistle & Rose guys, to be very nice pieces. I think you have to reach out to the T&R guys thru their f'book page unless they have stood-up their new website.
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The Vendel now Thistle and Rose elephants were huge monsters in 2001. Now scale has crept up to them. They had nice crews that fit the models.
The elephants sadly are not in particularly dynamic poses. But they paint up nice. I added some bits from the Aventine to this old one.
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Excellent model
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I just noted that more models have been added to the Blitzkrieg website, making it a more complete range.
https://www.blitzkriegminiatures.com/tanks/Ancient-Indians-c130557756
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More to come, so I believe…
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I really like the Vendel-range of Indians although I have never seen any IRL.
I was sceptical about the Blitzkrieg ones at first (the hands are huge...) but they look better and better everytime I see them.
They are much cheaper than Vendel too! ::)
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This is a super useful thread, and I appreciate it greatly.
I find the structure of ancient Indian armies to be very curios and hard to find a good representation of in tabletop games.
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The Arthashastra, by Kautilya, (also known as Vishnugupta and Chanakya), has much of the known details. I made this chart for Slingshot magazine awhile back. Another great compilation of sources is the Chandragupta board game below:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/26458/chandragupta
Chandragupta: Great Battles of the Mauryan Empire – India, 319-261 BC
Designer Richard H. Berg, Mark Herman, Alan J. Ray, Stephen R. Welch
GMT games.
The designer's notes includes a very complete description of troop types, divisions by social and caste status, and other hierarchies. Plus the scenarios are big, and almost all complete guesswork due to muddy or non existent sources.
I'm also currently working on a Seleucus I vs. Chandragupta scenario which is fun but a total fabrication.
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Lovely bit of painting on that elephant, Jeff.
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I had read somewhere The smallest tactical element was called a "Patti". In theory, it was composed of a single elephant, a chariot, 3 horseman, and 5 infantry soldiers. From there, these units were built up into larger forces in multiples of 3.
There was also something called a Vyuha. This appears to be a combined arms military unit of about 5,000 troops. The Vyuha has 5 sub-units that each unit had about 45 chariots, 45 elephants, 225 cavalry, 675 infantry men. These Vyuha had various formations that they could adopt based on the tactical need of the army.
I have always struggled with how to represent this formation on the table, as most wargames have units that are "single" style forces such as a Pike Block, or a Legion of heavy infantry, or a block of archers. Meanwhile, the Indian model is much more "mixed" in their formations and intended to fight with combined arms as the focus.
That said, The Mauryan Empires army was a professional force. I am less sure how they were organized before the Successor period. For example, the Persian Empire also had operations in the Indus Valley and had Satrapies in that area. How were the local Indian troops of the region organized, was it very different from the later Mauryans? My gut says yes, but I am unsure as I am not finding many sources on the topic in English.
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I highly recommend you seek out the pdf version of the ChandraGupta game designer’s notes. It may be on Scribd.
It has (as I stated) quite a bit of useful information that has come out since 2003 when my Alexander the Great supplement came out for Warhammer Ancient Battles.
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I will see what I can find out, and try to provide links here where possible.
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I will see what I can find out, and try to provide links here where possible.
Chandragupta Designer's notes:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/137005/chandragupta-notes-designer-2
Sorry the other links were not working.
The bibliography #16 I think is the most important.
Here is the direct link to GMT games where all the weekly design notes were once housed:
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-40-chandragupta.aspx
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Awesome! Thank you!