Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Atheling on August 18, 2022, 04:19:37 PM
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Hi,
I've been looking into using oil washes on 28mm Historical miniatures and have found a ton of stuff on Fantasy/Sci Fi stuff in terms of tutorials/vids. Either my google foo is very off or the tutorials/vids simply do not exist.
I'm aiming to use them for The Crimean War, Ancients, Dark Ages and Late Medieval mini's.
Does anyone know of any such tutorials/vids using Oil Washes on 28mm Historical miniatures?
Thanks.
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I don’t know of any tutorials Darrell, but I can tell you that I use ultra thinned oil washes a lot these days, and I find them infinitely superior to acrylic washes and inks. Much more controllable and precise, and offer a better finish. Really good for weathering as well.
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I don’t know of any tutorials Darrell, but I can tell you that I use ultra thinned oil washes a lot these days, and I find them infinitely superior to acrylic washes and inks. Much more controllable and precise, and offer a better finish. Really good for weathering as well.
Thanks Richard. Do you have any particular brands you use?
Also, do you remove some of the oil paint after the wash has been applied or move it around with a brush similar to that of an acrylic glaze? What is the technique on a the average 28mm historical miniature?
I'm trying to get my head around trying it out on some historical mini's but the only decent videos I can find are on Sci Fi/Fantasy where the details are much more pronounced on the models.
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Hello Darrell,
Basically everything Richard has written is spot on. I’ll add that there is plenty of new mediums et cetera; quick dry,matte and so forth. Ammo from Mig do oil brushes (sort of like makeup sticks) very handy and dry superbly.
Oils are brilliant,and another great tool in the box :)
Cheero
Guy
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Hello Darrell,
Basically everything Richard has written is spot on. I’ll add that there is plenty of new mediums et cetera; quick dry,matte and so forth. Ammo from Mig do oil brushes (sort of like makeup sticks) very handy and dry superbly.
Oils are brilliant,and another great tool in the box :)
Cheero
Guy
Thanks Guy. Seems like I'm going to have to make the leap. I have some Crimean War Brits that might make a decent start and give me some idea if I can keep a degree of vibrancy but also have a more lived in look- atypical of how I paint normally.
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Have a look at Putty and Paint, a lot of sci-fi and so on,but also lots of historical. I check it everyday day for new work, and if it’s inspiring enough save it to my IPad, a great resource to see what others are up to. Mike Blank is one who stands out (though he only uses acrylic these days).
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Have a look at Putty and Paint
Ha! I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it just now- a lot to digest and more than meets the eye methinks.
a lot of sci-fi and so on,but also lots of historical. I check it everyday day for new work, and if it’s inspiring enough save it to my IPad, a great resource to see what others are up to. Mike Blank is one who stands out (though he only uses acrylic these days).
Thanks mate. It's going to be interesting to see how larger scales translate to 28mm (I hope!) :)
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One thing to remember, and apologies in advance if I'm stating the bleeding obvious, is that oil washes take a looooooooooong time to dry. So, although they can be, with a bit of practice, very effective, they ain't really a time saver.
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One thing to remember, and apologies in advance if I'm stating the bleeding obvious, is that oil washes take a looooooooooong time to dry. So, although they can be, with a bit of practice, very effective, they ain't really a time saver.
Thanks Dags, that's certainly an issue for me.
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Enamels aren’t so bad,24 hours usually, and the slow drying time is very useful; applying your wash, letting it touch try then with a brush or cotton but lightly dipped in thinners you can remove the excess. You can also blend this in with other colours , very subtle . Lovely 😊
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Enamels aren’t so bad,24 hours usually, and the slow drying time is very useful; applying your wash, letting it touch try then with a brush or cotton but lightly dipped in thinners you can remove the excess. You can also blend this in with other colours , very subtle . Lovely 😊
That's what all the Grimdark/Sci Fi/Fantasy oil wash techniques seem to reveal- it's translating those techniques onto an almost certainly smaller model with less pronounced details (as in historical miniatures) which I feel is going to be the challenge.
Going to do some research into the most used washes and paints etc tonight.
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These aren't historicals (obviously!), but they are small (15mm) with shallow details, and I was quite pleased with how they came out using oil washes: just thin acrylic base colours over a white undercoat and then sloshed with a wash made from cheap Winsor and Newton oil paint (the £3-a-pop student range - whatever that's called). Excess wash was wiped off with cotton buds and white spirit:
(https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=127243.0;attach=156594;image)
I suspect you'll be going for much more high-end effects than grimy speed-painting, but oils do seem to work well with smaller and less detailed figures. I think they'd be particularly good for historicals; they seem to produce a kind of 'instant Breughel' effect.
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Do you need to seal the acryilcs with a matt/gloss varnish or someting like klear floor wax?
I've always understood that it was necessary to stop the white spirit/turps attacking the acryliics, although when I've done it myself, I often run into the problem of the spirits making the underlying varnish go permenently tacky.
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No that is not necessary. Painting a gloss coat allows the oils to run better, mattte provides more tooth. However if you do subsequent oil/ enamel washes it is necessary (acrylic) because the white spirit will attack paint.
A good primer is important.
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If you use a less aggressive solvent such as Windsor and Newton Sansodor to make the wash you won’t risk stripping the underlying acrylics. It is also much less pungent than enamel thinners or white spirit. Helps the oils dry matt as well.
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Use artists’ quality white spirit. It’s less astringent, completely odourless, and provides a much smoother carrier medium for the oil pigment than household/decorators’ white spirit.
Oil washes are incredibly thin because oil paint is incredibly highly pigmented. Any oil paint brand will do, and I’ve used several different ones with no discernible difference in results. You need a tiny amount of oil paint in a wash of artists’ white spirit. Like one part oil pigment to 20 parts white spirit. Used in this ratio, the oil paint wash dries in a few minutes. Yes neat oil paint takes days to dry. A heavily thinned oil wash takes no time at all. You can build it up in layers if you want to increase the effect. Burnt Sienna, Burnt Umber, Payne’s Grey, Raw Umber are my go to colours for washes and for weathering effects.
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Do you need to seal the acryilcs with a matt/gloss varnish or someting like klear floor wax?
I've always understood that it was necessary to stop the white spirit/turps attacking the acryliics, although when I've done it myself, I often run into the problem of the spirits making the underlying varnish go permenently tacky.
Apparently, from all the vids I've watched thus far, as long as you get a good solid and most importantly consistent base coat of acrylic paint, you will avoid tiny gaps" in the acrylic where the oil may seep under and blister the acrylic paint. This would obviously ruin any paint job which is a concern.
I've only watched Sci Fi and Fantasy videos so far (with one or two exceptions which were less than impressive) so the technique could be different of historical miniatures with less prominent detail..... ???
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Use artists’ quality white spirit. It’s less astringent, completely odourless, and provides a much smoother carrier medium for the oil pigment than household/decorators’ white spirit.
Already ordered :) I used to use at when painting on canvas as I had an allergic reaction to using run of the mill white spirit. I had to wear protective gloves which i found were very restrictive when it came to handling the brush so switched over to something called Mineral Spirits. That way I could do away with the gloves and get the freedom back in my hand "gestures".
Oil washes are incredibly thin because oil paint is incredibly highly pigmented. Any oil paint brand will do, and I’ve used several different ones with no discernible difference in results. You need a tiny amount of oil paint in a wash of artists’ white spirit. Like one part oil pigment to 20 parts white spirit. Used in this ratio, the oil paint wash dries in a few minutes. Yes neat oil paint takes days to dry. A heavily thinned oil wash takes no time at all. You can build it up in layers if you want to increase the effect. Burnt Sienna, Burnt Umber, Payne’s Grey, Raw Umber are my go to colours for washes and for weathering effects.
All duly notes, and in some cases remembered :) I have some 20 year old paints including some made up of Lapis Lazuli! (Ultramarine; I used to buy all my pigments/paints as pure as I could afford). I'm wondering if I could save on money and use my old paints that are sitting in the garage as long as they have not gone off (this can happen with some old oil paints)? Mind, they have suffered the ravages of many a hot summer and cold winter so maybe not.....
I've noticed that Element sell a range called Abteilung, which the manufacturer states are meant for miniature painting- does anone have any experience of using these paints? Apparently less linseed oil so a quicker drying time.
Note the Abteilung range does not appear to be for classic washes. For those I will have to try out other manufacturers if anyone can recommend any?
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Yeah, I've got them - smaller tubes and more expensive for no noticeable difference in effect
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Yeah, I've got them - smaller tubes and more expensive for no noticeable difference in effect
Thanks, that's interesting mate. What oils would you recommend? Common-or-garden Winsor & Newton Winton, Daler Rowney (probably not) or any other makes?
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I’ve used Winton for years, only moving to Artist quality if I can’t find the colour I want. A good tip to ensuring they dry more quickly and more matt is to leach out some of the oil before use. To do this, squeeze out your oils onto a square of cardboard and leave it for a few minutes. The cardboard soaks up the excess oil and you can use the oil paint as usual. Abteilung are useful if you don’t want to mix colours, and are designed for modellers who want to try techniques like oil dot rendering on their models. However, if you don’t want to mix colours then oils are probably not for you in the first place……and if you do mix colours, then a starter set of Wintons will give you all the options you need at a much lower price.
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Thanks, that's interesting mate. What oils would you recommend? Common-or-garden Winsor & Newton Winton, Daler Rowney (probably not) or any other makes?
Honestly, I'm not the person to ask as I use them so rarely (and then mostly for weathering vehicles). But in my extreme paint junkie phase I got a set of W&N and then the Abteilung ones. Had them at least 10 years now and, other than the occasional stuck lid needing pliers to shift, they're still good to go.
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I have the Abteilung oils, they’re pretty good, mix them with enamels fairly regularly too. As I understand it Scale 75 have just released oils which are probably decent,I’ve been using their artist acrylics paints for awhile which are excellent .
I would get some colours you like and have a go, Richard’s suggestions are excellent,I would add Sepia :)
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I’ve used Winton for years, only moving to Artist quality if I can’t find the colour I want. A good tip to ensuring they dry more quickly and more matt is to leach out some of the oil before use. To do this, squeeze out your oils onto a square of cardboard and leave it for a few minutes. The cardboard soaks up the excess oil and you can use the oil paint as usual. Abteilung are useful if you don’t want to mix colours, and are designed for modellers who want to try techniques like oil dot rendering on their models. However, if you don’t want to mix colours then oils are probably not for you in the first place……and if you do mix colours, then a starter set of Wintons will give you all the options you need at a much lower price.
Thanks, I don;t mind mixing as, despite the mess, I've been guilty of mixing them up for canvas, though granted, a different prospect altogether.
Honestly, I'm not the person to ask as I use them so rarely (and then mostly for weathering vehicles). But in my extreme paint junkie phase I got a set of W&N and then the Abteilung ones. Had them at least 10 years now and, other than the occasional stuck lid needing pliers to shift, they're still good to go.
Thanks mate.
I have the Abteilung oils, they’re pretty good, mix them with enamels fairly regularly too. As I understand it Scale 75 have just released oils which are probably decent,I’ve been using their artist acrylics paints for awhile which are excellent .
I would get some colours you like and have a go, Richard’s suggestions are excellent,I would add Sepia :)
Ah, Scale 75 might be the way to go. Lots to think about guys so thanks for the time out to reply 8)
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Oils seem to be the new fad in the wargaming world, judging by Youtube. I do recognise they are another handy tool to have, considering their strong point is also their weakness: the slower drying times. I use them for washing/pin washing, but I'm increasingly using them with an acrylic paint consistency to wet-blend and do colour gradients. Much more simple this way than with acrylics, once you learn how they behave.
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pin washing
Pin washing? I'm lost :)
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pin washing, thin oil paint to very liquid consistency, apply a tiny amount to panel lines and detail lines and let capillary action wick the oils along the detail. Very useful for vehicles.
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pin washing, thin oil paint to very liquid consistency, apply a tiny amount to panel lines and detail lines and let capillary action wick the oils along the detail. Very useful for vehicles.
Thanks. Do you have a link to a vid perchance? Might be more useful for me to visualise the process.
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Darrel ,
Just Google pin washes, you’ll get all the answers you need. :)
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Darrel ,
Just Google pin washes, you’ll get all the answers you need. :)
Of course! A big "duh" on my part!
I think I was having an off day yesterday.... and perhaps a while before yesterday too lol
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I would recommend to get some artist's grade oils from any good brand (W&N, Talens, D&R, Schminke etc). The sets made by scale model companies can be enticing but have in mind that at best they are just repackaged artist's (or student's) oils, and they usually dont offer real primary colors but convenience mixes that you dont really need. Artist's series generally have alot more pigmentation and in this case you really need that in order to produce nice washes and color filters.
The best budget solution imo are the Talens series van gogh as they sit somewhere between the artist's and student's grade. The next one is Winton series by W&N but sometimes they dry up abit grainy. Ask me how I know lol
You can use W&N sansodor, or any good brand of odourless thinner. White spirit from the hardware store usually is too agressive for the acrylics underneath but it really depends from the brand. Sometimes there are cheap brands that work just fine.