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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: ulverston on August 26, 2022, 08:25:33 PM
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Hi,
I am considering buying a 3d printer and curing/washing station but I am holding back until I can gather some information. Obviously I have read and watched countless Youtube vids but I thought I would ask on here if anyone had already taken the plunge?
My main interests would be modern 28mm and the bits needed to make scenery and of course the odd vehicle. Are there any companies who specialise in this? Or, is there someone on here already doing this that sells the all important seats, tables and all the other stuff that back in the day we never even thought of!
It would be really helpful to know of someone elses journey and what to watch out for.
I think I am finally prompted into action after cutting and sawing to make a multi barrelled rocket launcher on my day off today...with the rules I use it will probably only ever be a marker and it would have been so much easier to print it....wouldn't it??
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Ok, so I have been 3d printing for about the last two years and just upgraded my printer to a larger print bed. I print in resin, it just gives me the detail I want.
Before you start there are any number of videos on YouTube for beginners.
There are loads of free files to print available through thingiverse and elsewhere, you can buy print files from other vendors like 3d breed or wargaming3d. Quite a few kickstarters will provide you with the files you need to print.
The process is really simple, get your file - normally 'STL' - open it up in the software recommended for your printer or a free software like Chitubox that supports most current printers. Now you have an object.. rescale, rotate, add supports, hollow, add drain holes etc... , manipulate or whatever, then 'slice' the object (cut it into the layers for printing) and save it in the format your printer uses. Most printers will want you to then copy the sliced file onto a USB stick (normally supplied with the printer) - stick it in the printer and select print. (After that you have to remove from the build plate, wash off the excess resin and cure it to finally harden.)
It sounds complex, but actually it becomes really straightforward once you have done it a couple of times.
That's it in a nutshell - get good at finding free stl files, play with what supports you should add (many of the purchased 3d files will come with already supported versions.. Thingiverse not so much) - and the only warning I would give is that you will be tempted to print way more figures and vehicles than you can paint. Oh and expect to spend all your money on resin, isopropyl alcohol to wash the prints, bases, decals and paint rather than vehicles and figures :)
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I would like to do resin too. Any suggestions or warnings about what printers to buy or avoid?
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I am considering buying a 3d printer and curing/washing station but I am holding back until I can gather some information.
I use Anycubic printers, and Elegoo is another comparable brand that I have seen the most talk about on the miniature side of the hobby.
The one thing I would recommend against is a wash and cure station. It seems like most of them are designed to immerse the entire build plate into isopropyl and then agitate the solution to speed removal of the uncured liquid. My problem with this is that majority of the surface area you are cleaning with this method are your supports and exposed plate, which quickly contaminates your isopropyl. I have always removed the printing supports before washing, and a quick pass over with paper towels physically removes the vast majority of uncured resin before putting the pieces into the isopropyl, and using the two container method also greatly increases the life of your isopropyl.
As far as curing, I usually just use the sun, with a turn or two every several minutes depending on the shape and size of the piece, and I have a separate tray to cure the supports and resin paper towels to solidify those before trashing them.
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Thanks, Kelly!
Remember the camel to watch the prices!
https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B08F7L945C?locale=US&context=partner
https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B07BR3F9N6?locale=US&context=partner
I'm still waiting for a fume-free high-resolution budget printer. No hurry, given my painting queue. :P
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Shah, Kelly and all thank you for your advice. I will certainly start checking out the different printers now and I will be using resin. Its such a new (to me) process! Are there any companies that sell STL files especially for modern miniatures? Everything I seem to find is fantasy?
Thanks again.
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I think Spectre Operations now has a Patreon with files available on that.
Shah, Kelly and all thank you for your advice. I will certainly start checking out the different printers now and I will be using resin. Its such a new (to me) process! Are there any companies that sell STL files especially for modern miniatures? Everything I seem to find is fantasy?
Thanks again.
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How many times can the resin be used?
What do you do with the washed-off resin? It can't go down the drain. I see there is water-soluble resin now but even that should not go down the drain.
Thanks
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How many times can the resin be used?
The actual resin cured during the printing process is once and done, but any resin remaining in the vat can be printed on other projects or strained back into a bottle. The lifetime of your isopropyl alcohol is what varies greatly as the washing process removes the loose liquid resin adhering to your print and suspends it the isopropyl solution. Once the isopropyl is cloudy, less resin can be removed, and it is time to switch it out.
What do you do with the washed-off resin? It can't go down the drain. I see there is water-soluble resin now but even that should not go down the drain.
I do not use the water soluble resin as I feel the regular resin gives more consistent results, but the easiest way to dispose of any type is curing it outside in the sun. Resined gloves, paper towels, and the unused supports are all inert once they cure / solidify and can easily be discarded. Used isopropyl is a little more difficult, but leaving that in the sun will have the alcohol evaporate, and all of the resin in suspension will settle out and cure into a mostly solid mass.
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Give Patreon a look, I back onepagerules, but there's a wide variety of mini makers on there so you're bound to find something that fits your interests. Benefit being it's a lot cheaper than buying models from an online store, and they tend to all do pre-supported minis.
I've been printing for 18 months now, done a couple of armies and a crap load of skirmish models, and I think so far I've had to do supports on two models. Unless you want 3d printing to be your hobby, it's much easier to let someone else do the only tricky bit :D
I don't use a wash and cure (just a couple of pickle jars from amazon, one for 'dirty', straight out of printer into there, then remove the supports and into 'clean'), and I steal my wife's uv nail lamp but they're about 15quid on amazon! Resin goes a long way, I'm only just on my third bottle now.
Don't bother taking the resin out of the vat unless you're planning on not printing for months. It's fine, just leave it be. I tend to stir mine before I print if it looks like it's settled. Oh and my personal preference is the elegoo abs like skin/beige coloured resin. Much less smell than their grey stuff, not sure why.
I use an elegoo mars 2, and I have zero complaints about the print quality. Having just cleaned up a set of TT Combat's commercial rumbleslam resin minis I'd say my elegoo is far superior. They seem to use a 3d printer for their masters, and it has layer lines! Then the resin takes ages to clean. 3D printing is such a doddle compared to that, which feels completely arse about tit.
Overall despite what some naysayers may say (nay one assumes), 3d printing has been plug and play for me. I can count my failed prints on one had, and the results are cracking. Simple, very little mess, and opened up a wide new world of options.
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I am so glad I asked on here as I knew nothing about the alcohol deteriorating and the trick of leaving it to evaporate! I also may skip buying the curing station and save myself a few hundred quid!
As for the modern era miniature STLs I haven't yet looked at Spectre but one page rules seems very interesting. Also the Eligoo Mars pro 2 is on offer on Amazon.... tempting.
Thanks again for the help everyone.
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I have had an Elegoo Mars 2 Pro resin printer and an Elegoo Mercury curing station for a little over a year now, and I have nothing but good experiences so far.
I see people advocating against getting a curing station a lot, but what they forget to mention is the ease of use of these machines. I contemplated dabbing around with iso containers and UV lamps and the like, but the added work, clutter and mess this requires just isn't worth it in my opinion.
Curing in the sun might be an option in places like Spain or Texas, but where I live, consistent sunlight is not a given (at all). Also; I do most of my hobbying in the evening/night, which adds to this issue.
I now have a one stop shop, which takes up only as much space as the actual printer (it sits right next to it, on a dedicated table in the garage), and I for one would recommend it to anyone.
I do second the remark that you shouldn't put the printbed into the vat; I also take the parts off the bed and into the provided metal basket to wash. I found that supports, especially on thin parts, are easier to remove when cured though, so it depends on the model whether I take the supports off before curing or not. Tiny parts are usually left on their supports and base so they don't get lost during the washing process.
As for getting rid of the isopropanol; letting it evaporate into the atmosphere is not exactly the most environment friendly solution, not to mention it takes a long time to evaporate several liters of the stuff, plus the potential fire/explosion hazard when alcohol vapours collect under carports, sunroofs etc... I'd recommend turning it in at a local (municipal?) recycle/disposal station where they accept small chemical waste.
It's why I held on to the iso bottles I poured into my cleaning unit. But truth be told; I've been printing for a bit over a year now, but aside from straining the iso from the container once to catch the larger flakes (and wipe down the inside of the container), I've not disposed of anything, and the contents are still going strong. That's 3 liters per year, and probably a lot longer too; I haven't reached the end of this batch's effectiveness just yet.
So I'd strongly recommend a curing station. And yes it costs, but I got mine for a mere €100,- , so it's not as if you could buy another printer for the same amount either...
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I too would highly recommend a washing/curing station. It removes a lot of the hassle. When my alcohol gets cloudy I pour it through a cloth into a clear plastic bottle and put it in the window. The cloth catches some of the uncured resin and the sun cures the rest of the resin in the bottle separating it from the alcohol. I have used the same 3 liters for about a year now, with no problems.
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I use water washable resin with an Elgoo Mars and Curing Station. The combination functions fine.
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This has been helpful, I’m about to take the plunge into 3D printing myself.
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Thirding (or fourthing) the votes in favour of wash and cure station. Its a modest outlay when considering resin itself is about 25 quid a bottle, and as others said, it keeps things neat and tidy. Designed for purpose tools are usually better than mucking about with something thats halfway there.
I too find the curing station a must, otherwise winter nights I'd effectively be pausing the process.
I have had 3 fdm printers and they're far more faff in terms of maintenance and skill level, though much cheaper in materials, and thus ideal for terrain. I couldn't believe how much easier resin was - especially when using presupported models, it just works.
When using badly supported or self supported (same thing in my case!), I've found my success rate drops to perhaps 50 to 70 percent.
It's good advice also to join a patreon or two if you find a sculptor you like - it's a factor of ten or more cheaper than buying those models later from the marketplaces.
And yes, I've found ultimately the outcome is in fact to increase my pile of opportunity, given its so easy to pop a print on while I'm working, grab it a few hours later, then start a new one... lol
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Thanks for this Bonelo, it seems like you are certainly mastering printing! I think you nailed it when you said find a sculptor that you ike, mostly I just see dragons and fantasy stuff where I would like to print historical or moderns. I will keep searching. Thanks for the help
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I've been printing with Ender 3 for some years, and this summer I got me a Anycubic Photon Ultra resin printer and the bigger Anycubic wash&cure station. I would recommend wash&cure station, simply because it makes the process very easy and quick. I usually remove the prints from buildplate, but I leave the supports on, expecially if the models are very fragile. After wash, I cut the supports of and then cure the model. Or, if it contains very thin and fragile parts, I even cure it before cutting of the supports from those parts. It really depends.
One thing to consider when choosing a resin printer is the size. The Photon Ultra is pretty small as far as print size is concerned, so if you intend to print larger models, then a larger printer might be better choice. Elegoo, Anycubic, Phrozen all make good ones. But you can split large models in pieces and then print those, I've done that with a lager spider.
Second consoderation is the resin itself. Assuming you want to play with your prints, then you need to choose a type of resin that's not too fragile. All resins are pretty fragile, compared with metal, but there are some types that work better for playing in 28mm size etc. I've even printed some Warmaster stuff which came out alright, but then I dropped one base, and all the spears broke off... :(
Third thing, what is the resin chemically like. Is washable with IPA or similar liquids? All resins are toxic waste, in that you can't just pour it in the sewer. You can extend the life of your washing liquid if you cure the washed resins in it, so IPA it is recycled for use, after you remove the resin lumps. These days you get water washable resins, I haven't tried them out, but the do seem to get good or mixed reviews. The liquid is still toxic with the resin in it, so you can't pour it in sewer, and need to separate the resin by curing. But hey it's water, it's almost free and doesnt' stink to high heaven (IPA does, wear some mask or ventilate well?) And most resins are finicky, they require fairly warm conditions, so printing in unheated shack can be difficult.
So there's a lot to get your head around to at first, but if you watch some youtube videos, you soon get the hang of it.
Two tips: firstly, the most crucial thing to get right with printing resin, is the exposure time, both for the first initial layers (so the print fixes well to the plate), and the rest of the printing, so you get all the details good, and no missing bits. There are some good test prints which tell you if your setup is doing under or over-exposure. Thsi needs to be right.
Second tip, when (not if) you do get print fails, partial or otherwise, always empty the resin wat and filter the resin when you pour it back to the bottle... if tiny bits remain in the resin, they can really ruin the FEP film that forms the bottom of the wat. So you need to replace the FEP in the worst case. Plus some print bits can attach to the FEP real hard, so you need to bump them off to assure succesful print next time (there's videos about that too). So get a funnel and some disposable paint filters for this purpose.
Ok, third tip as a bonus: the second most important thing for succesful prints, is getting the supports right. This comes with failure and watching loads of videos on the topic. But it's better to over-support than under (which usually gets you a failed print), and slicing apps like Lychee have some pretty useful functions for it. And big solid pieces should be made hollow, so they take less resin and cure ok, and then you need to make holes in them.... etc. etc.
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I've been printing in both FDM and DLP (resin) for the last several years. Started with an Ender 3 then added an Anycubic Photon. I then added another Ender 3 then upgraded the Photon to a Mono.
Don't buy a Mono and if you look at any other Anycubic's machines, make sure their FEP screens don't use their proprietary preassembled FEP frames. Currently you can't get them and have to send to China for the whole vat replacement when the FEP goes bad. However, there is a 3rd party replacement vat that uses the standard FEP sandwich frames with screws. But, you may as well just buy the Elegoo Mars.
Wash and cure stations. I don't own one and don't want one. They seem like a good idea. Seems to keep the mess contained. However, if you look up Uncle Jessy on Youtube, in a recent video, he mentioned he has several of them and they all broke fairly easily and are not worth the expense to fix. I think its on the video about using wood glue to clean a screen. Too much to say to that so you decide. :)
Anyway, the files. Don't buy a printer until you are sure that there are files you want to print. The printer is nothing unless you have the things you want to print. As you noticed there are hundreds more fantasy files than anything else. This is slowly changing. Look at some of these places:
https://www.wargaming3d.com/
This site is a commercial, with some free files, suppository for historical stl files. There are some sci-fi.
In a couple weeks Enemy Spotted Studios is having a kickstarter for stl files and prints for modern military style models. In Country will be the name. They also sell some things on their website. Their print models are closer to 30mm though. They also have a near future sci-fi line for their Killwager game.
There have been some other kickstarters for stl modern. If by modern you mean WWII on forward, there are several and some of them sell on MyMiniFactory.com. Some also sell on their own websites as well as allow late pledges. 3D breed have made several sets of WWII as well as other models.
There was a kickstarter called Iraq War about a year or two back that had U.S. Marines and Insurgent models. Have not seen another kickstarter from him nor have I seen his models for sale. You can try to see if there is a late pledge if you want.
Thingiverse and wargaming3d has WWII and modern vehicles in 1:100 scale. Of course, the scale can be changed easily and they seem to be suited to rescaling. Some files are terrible when you rescale them.
Hope this help.
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All I have to add on the printers front is that Elegoo's customer service is top-drawer, whereas Anycubic's is reportedly almost non-existant. This was what pushed me into buying an Elegoo printer.
In terms of manufacturers for moderns, as well those previously noted there is
Combat Octopus (https://combatoctopus.gumroad.com/)
Turnbase Miniatures (https://turnbaseminiatures.gumroad.com/)
and for detail bits and objective-type pieces, TT Immersion (https://ttimmersion.gumroad.com/)
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I'm 3D printing terrain. Currently working on the Stormcrow Mansion
Those figures are the Hasslefree Hamlet (Scooby) Gang.
I've also added an image of someone else's that is further along than I am.
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That's impressive!