Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Cacique Caribe on September 18, 2022, 06:20:14 AM
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I certainly have never seen such a raid. I would imagine it would be a bloodbath for the peasants, but it would be the most “realistic” thing too, wouldn’t you say?
Has anyone ever seen such a scenario played out? How badly did it go for the peasants? Did they ever stand a chance?
Thoughts?
If I ever try it out, it would probably be with these 5 sets here:
Fighting 15s
https://fighting15s.com/product/fe030-peasants-with-improvised-weapons/?v=7516fd43adaa
https://fighting15s.com/product/fe031-peasants-with-pole-weapons/?v=7516fd43adaa
https://fighting15s.com/product/fe032-peasants-with-bows-and-slings/?v=7516fd43adaa
https://fighting15s.com/product/mp001-camp-followers-and-peasant-infantry-1410/?v=7516fd43adaa
Battle Valor
https://www.battlevalorgames.com/product/human-civilians-15-figures-/2958?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=true
(https://www.shopbuilderpro.co.uk/imageServer/94824/products/1195509-main.jpg)
Thanks
Dan
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Never seen it but it sounds like a cool idea for a scenario. FireForge do some nice plastic 28-32mm peasants.
You could always have a few peasants that fought in the past and some hunters for a bit of variation. Plus theres always the classic Old War Horse with one last battle left in them trope, like the old pilot from The Mummy.
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Well, certainly the fictional scenarios involving peasants defending their home have usually included a ‘stiffening’ of heroes -Seven Samurai, etc. Recent Runequest has an Apple Lane scenario where the heroes defend the village against orc-like invaders.
In White Box D&D terms, the Orcs would have better armour, be harder to kill, and have the advantage of numbers and higher level ‘heroes’. The peasants have no advantages, even their homes are only as defensible as the peasant in the doorway, meaning only one Orc at a time can attack.
So, the only successful option for the peasants would be to erect defences in & around the village, and hope to negate the orc advantages. This would obviously depend on how much time the orcs give them to prepare.
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Not exactly orcs vs villagers, but I did play in a game with Skaven raiding to take captives: http://imostlypaintatnightmostly.blogspot.com/2015/09/warhammer-3rd-edition-aar-1.html?m=1 (http://imostlypaintatnightmostly.blogspot.com/2015/09/warhammer-3rd-edition-aar-1.html?m=1)
The skaven had to move fast to get the job done before the village got reinforced. In our game, the village militia put up a stouter defense than expected and the skaven ended up having a bad day…
I think there are ways to make an orc raid scenario interesting, and more than just a bloodbath, but it is all in the scenario design.
A few things to consider that might even the game out a bit:
1) to some extent, villagers aren’t necessarily helpless, they provide a lot of the manpower in a pre-professional army. Think Saxon fyrd or Medieval English archers. So, that village the orcs are attacking may have a resident lord with some followers who are trained and potentially well equipped. Then there are the rest of the fighting age males, who have at least some practice with weapons, and basic gear. If the orcs can pull off a surprise attack, or have overwhelming numbers, they might have an easy time, but if they can’t get a quick victory the peasants might be able to form up in enough numbers to crush them…
2) the village may have a wall or other defenses to keep orcs out (and probably should if raids are likely…). Or the village is constructed in a location that is naturally defensible (Mediterranean coastal villages used to make that a priority to help keep North African raiders out).
3) even if the village isn’t specifically designed to maximize defense, fighting in built up areas could favor defenders in ways that will make the orcs’ day more difficult.
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Who’s to say the Orcs are competent disciplined warriors? They might be a bunch of numpties who shout a lot and wave a few knives around but tend to back off if confronted by a long-range pitchfork. They might also be organised into small gangs, each of whome want to do better in the looting than the next gang and therefore won’t be supporting each other (but might do a bit of back-stabbing if a discrete chance arises).
And as Lost Egg indicated, peasants aren’t always helpless. They might be used to raids, have looted weapons handy and have organised some local support from neighbouring villages that arrives halfway through the raid. The Clubmen in the English Civil War certainly made a few regular units think twice and there’s some examples in the Border Reivers period of villages/estates organising against the Reivers.
It’s a good scenario-maker, you could have a lot of fun with this :)
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Not Orcs, but did take part in a multiplayer Viking game.
Each player had a personality/leader figure & some followers.
The villagers were totally outclassed, but as the aim was to
gather as much loot as possible, fights between rival Vikings
broke out during the game. Too many raiders & not enough loot
will do that.
:D
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Funny enough i plan it the other way around. I have some lovely 15mm Orc villagers and some nasty dwarves who want to plunder their village. Still in the building and painting phase. To much lead to do lol
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There is a scenario called Linden Way from the WHF 2nd edition's supplement called Blood bath at Orc's Drift in which the dwellers organised as a militia, have to fight off some raiding Orcs. Here's my AAR of that in 10mm (the peasants were slaughtered: http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/2009/02/linden-way.html (http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/2009/02/linden-way.html)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Rp6_kYbaGwI/SYYmG4diBFI/AAAAAAAAAGs/AfxGnvAweJg/s1600/Linden+Way+04b.jpg)
Now I'm into 1/72 and I'll be using these ones from Zvezda:
(http://plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/ZVE8059d.jpg)
(http://plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/ZVE8059a.jpg)
(http://plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/ZVE8059b.jpg)
(http://plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/ZVE8059c.jpg)
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Sounds good but if only they could recruit a handful of trained warriors (say 7?) to help them.
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Once played a game where I had a bunch of Byzantine peasants defending their village against Rus raiders while waiting for Byzantine regulars to come to their aid.
15 peasants. Five with pitchforks and scythe blades on poles (counting as spears), 5 with axes and adzes (2 handed weapons) and 5 with rocks they could throw.
Couple of dozen Rus, all better armed, better armoured and better fighters than the peasants ... and most of the Byzantine regular foot too, come to that.
Turn one, Rus leader (3 wounds, 4+ save) rides into the middle of the village, jumps off his horse, sword drawn, ready to charge the five rock throwers cowering behind a stone wall. The rest of the Rus are bustling up behind on foot.
The peasants make a morale check and, thanks to the protection of the wall, manage to stay put and chuck their rocks.
Five rocks, 5+ to hit then a 4+ save .... they might manage a wound if they are lucky. Before the Rus Jarl rushes forward and hacks them to death.
Nope - 5 rocks, five hits, no saves. Jarl has been stoned to death by what is clearly an elite Byzantine execution squad masquerading as peasants!
Rus take morale test, fail, panic, run away.
Cue comment from Rus player (and scenario designer) "Well that didn't go as I expected!"
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My buddy and I have been working on a convention game he's wanting to run; a small group of heroes with a couple henchmen each, and the game is based around getting peasants off the table. The table is generating undead which are swarming a city, etc.
Heroes have certain dice allowing them to order peasants to move, and likewise the Heroes or henchmen can ring the town bell which allows all peasants to move, etc.
The undead generate each turn and move a varying distance determined by cards, etc. If undead can surround or cut off peasants, then obviously they can stop them from exiting the table (they're trying to make it to a small keep and a boat).
It's a fun and simple goal, with the Heroes being able to fight while shouting at the peasants to flee, etc. Heroes can only affect peasants within a certain radius, but clever players can daisy-chain their heroes to try to move peasants again and again during a single turn, etc.
So far it's pretty fun.
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The assorted peasant uprisings through history that didnt end immediately suggest that peasants might not be as crappy as one assumes...
Many 'proper' weapons are based off tools afterall, so locals turning out with flails, billhooks, hunting spears, bows, slings and axes might not be on too much of a disadvantage. Depending on the time period/location you might be able tk add long knives/short swords to the list (seaxs or bauernwher, etc). Brugel's assorted paintings show pretty low class people with long knives as an example.
In addition to the idea of former soldiers and the lords retainers/village militia you can also add bandits/brigands who are hiding out in the village.
Possible village character ideas could include the strapping blacksmith (damage bonus?), retired soldier, the mysterious stranger/s (wether Conan or Clint Eastwood), the poacher (to hit bonus), the village herbalist/wise woman/witch (either healing the villagers wounds or causing the enemy morale damage through hurling threats), etc etc
I do also like the ideas of raiders who are numerically inferior to the villagers (expecting little resistance) or who are a pillaging rabble used to being bully boys and not expecting a fight.
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The assorted peasant uprisings through history that didnt end immediately suggest that peasants might not be as crappy as one assumes...
That reminds me of how the Bagaudae peasant uprisings became a big headache for the Roman legions:
https://www.slideshare.net/Roxii16/roxana-bagaudae
Dan
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Orc's Drift... now there's a classic. Spawned one of the longest and most legendary (multi-session) AAR threads on LAF too.
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“Orc’s Drift.”
LOL
“Sounds good but if only they could recruit a handful of trained warriors (say 7?) to help them.”
Pure genius!
Dan
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Perhaps, instead of Orcs, the peasants were fighting off a party of Woodwose!
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=138361.0
Dan
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In The Hobbit, if I remember correctly, Tolkien mentions orcs and wargs raiding the villages of the Beornings and their ilk. That could give you a nice set-up for a balanced scenario - especially with a game system that differentiates between armour and brawn. The orcs would be much better equipped (mail, shields, bows, arrows - possibly poisoned - and spears, etc.), but the Men would be bigger and beefier. They'd also have much better morale.
Song of Blades and Heroes doesn't allow you to make that armour/brawn distinction (as the Combat stat covers everything), but it does allow you to have orcs who are reliant on their leaders for motivation and easily scattered if those are slain. That in itself gives you a nice, balanced dynamic: lots of Q4, C2 orcs with the occasional bigger leader against fewer Q3, C3 villagers. But a system that differentiated between gear and prowess would be really handy to accentuate the differences.
Whichever system you use, v_lazy_dragon's ideas for characters are gold - and you could throw in the occasional werebear among the villagers too ...
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Hobgoblin
I like that idea, of a resident were-bear! I can see him/her working hard to keep the secret from the public, and suddenly realizing there’s no longer any reason to hide what it really is.
Thanks
Dan
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Would be a good balancing mechanism too. So he only reveals himself and turns into a killing machine if the villagers start getting smacked around badly (eg so many huts burnt or villagers slain). Thus if the Orcs do badly he is never needed. It would also stop the tactic of "send in the bear" up front.
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Perhaps, instead of Orcs, the peasants were fighting off a party of Woodwose!
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=138361.0
Dan
Whilst set very firmly in the present, the book Devolution deals with a bigfoot attack on a small eco village which might give good inspiration if one sees the woodwose as 'European sasquatch' or suitably primitive types
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Whilst set very firmly in the present, the book Devolution deals with a bigfoot attack on a small eco village which might give good inspiration if one sees the woodwose as 'European sasquatch' or suitably primitive types
That’s interesting! Lol
Dan
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Way back in 1985 or thereabouts my friends an I played a lot of silly and fun Warhammer Fantasy Battles second edition inspired, I guess, by things like The Magnificent Sven. One of the games was similar to this premise.
When the king raised an army to fight against a large orc horde invading the kingdom all of the able-bodied men from village of Warmington joined that army and only the old men, women and children were left in the village. The village money-lender, Mannerin, raised a militia with his lieutenant (a petty noble) consisting mostly of men too old to join the king's army: the village's butcher (who as a younger man had fought against hobgoblins in distant lands), the undertaker, Goodfrey the tailor who had some knowledge of healing gained through his sisters (who were almost certainly witches) and was notorious for a weak bladder, a sheep farmer called Sponge, the cheese man, a trader of some sort (who somehow didn't get 'enlisted' for the army) and a young boy. (a stupid boy with a pike and a warm scarf). The local clergy put aside their differences with Mannerin to help the village's defense.
The village was attacked by a group of goblin raiders and despite the heroic efforts of the militia and the village's more forceful women the goblin raiders were victorious killing most of the militia and stealing pigs, sheep and delicious baked goods.
I definitely miss those days of silly.
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I miss my days of silly also. And they shall be again!
Dan
PS. By the way, for those in the US, Scale Creep Miniatures seems to have the exact same feudal peasant sets mentioned in the original post:
https://scalecreep.com/product_info.php?products_id=4209
https://scalecreep.com/product_info.php?products_id=4210
https://scalecreep.com/product_info.php?products_id=4211
https://scalecreep.com/product_info.php?products_id=4205
https://scalecreep.com/product_info.php?products_id=7695
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Oh dear baby Valar, I might have to revisit this scenario on my blog...
I almost did it with a Hobbit village being overrun by Orc slavers. But I changed my mind and simply made it part of the fluff for the ensuing rescue mission.
I will have to do a flashback battle report of what will surely be an Orc victory. But still it might be fun.
Cheers,
Mar
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Although not with Orcs, but ...Vikings... an easy scenario for a raid.
There is a watchtower on a hill not far of the village, from where come at first a few fighters on foot to help the villagers; then, later after alarm is raised off-table, some cavalry.
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=84126.msg1033648#msg1033648
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Patrice
That is a fantastic set up. The scenario was absolutely believable, since it fits with what we know of the period. In other words, Vikings were shrewd and often hit targets that had among the defenders no real warriors to speak of.
I can imagine a smart Orc leader also picking his targets carefully. :)
Dan
PS. Check out the Town Raid Scenario discussed halfway down this page: https://daleswargames.blogspot.com/2022/09/another-scenario-for-one-hour-skirmish.html
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Oh dear baby Valar, I might have to revisit this scenario on my blog...
I almost did it with a Hobbit village being overrun by Orc slavers. But I changed my mind and simply made it part of the fluff for the ensuing rescue mission.
I will have to do a flashback battle report of what will surely be an Orc victory. But still it might be fun.
Cheers,
Mar
Mar
Please do play it out, and share a report and lots of pictures with us afterwards!
Dan
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In many times and places they would be militia, border farmer/guards. That would give them a fighting chance.
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For that they would need arms and training, something most peasants hardly ever get, unless it’s too little too late that is.
Dan
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In The Hobbit, if I remember correctly, Tolkien mentions orcs and wargs raiding the villages of the Beornings and their ilk. That could give you a nice set-up for a balanced scenario - especially with a game system that differentiates between armour and brawn. The orcs would be much better equipped (mail, shields, bows, arrows - possibly poisoned - and spears, etc.), but the Men would be bigger and beefier. They'd also have much better morale.
Song of Blades and Heroes doesn't allow you to make that armour/brawn distinction (as the Combat stat covers everything), but it does allow you to have orcs who are reliant on their leaders for motivation and easily scattered if those are slain. That in itself gives you a nice, balanced dynamic: lots of Q4, C2 orcs with the occasional bigger leader against fewer Q3, C3 villagers. But a system that differentiated between gear and prowess would be really handy to accentuate the differences.
Whichever system you use, v_lazy_dragon's ideas for characters are gold - and you could throw in the occasional werebear among the villagers too ...
If you have Advanced Song of Blades rules, or the Song of Gold and Darkness expansion for the basic rules, they cover heavy armor.
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If you have Advanced Song of Blades rules, or the Song of Gold and Darkness expansion for the basic rules, they cover heavy armor.
Yes - though it's not quite what I was thinking of here, as it has a fairly marginal effect (one-point loss = a draw, if I remember correctly). I'm thinking more of the effect you would get in a system like Mythras, where you get massive protection from armour and it's completely disaggregated from a character's ordinary defensive and offensive capabilities.
If you have small (so low HP) orcs in good armour with fragile morale and brave, beefy (so high HP and high damage) but unarmoured villagers, you'd get an interesting dynamic and - potentially - a nice balance - especially in a system that allows critical hits to bypass armour or other special effects (again, thinking of Mythras here, though I'm sure there are some proper wargame examples).
I bow to no one in my admiration for Song of Blades, and it has the best morale system for this sort of thing, but I think the armour stuff is one area where more detailed, RPGish systems might do better.
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I think you could also come up with a scenario in which the peasants have more scope to use terrain and other features (livestock!) to their advantage.
Perhaps cattle don't like the smell of orcs (or their wolves) and so are likely to trample them to defend their calves if let out of the pen. Or there might be dogs tethered outside the farmhouse that will be fierce in frustrating the goblins if their masters are able to let them off the leash. Stacks of haybales could be toppled, and there might be things that are easier for Men to climb than Orcs (actually, Song of Blades would do this automatically with Q4 orcs and Q3 Men). And so on ...
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For it to be any kind of interest the villagers need to have a chance somehow. It if is just orcs battering villagers left right and center then not a lot of fun for the village player.
So it either needs to be mechanics - villagers get some bonus against the orcs from morale, mobility, cover, etc - or a McGuffin - the old hermit turns out to be a wizard, one of the villagers is a were bear, the annual district archery contest happened to be held that day, someone has a magic sword in their loft, an elder is a retired adventurer, etc.
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For it to be any kind of interest the villagers need to have a chance somehow. It if is just orcs battering villagers left right and center then not a lot of fun for the village player.
So it either needs to be mechanics - villagers get some bonus against the orcs from morale, mobility, cover, etc - or a McGuffin - the old hermit turns out to be a wizard, one of the villagers is a were bear, the annual district archery contest happened to be held that day, someone has a magic sword in their loft, an elder is a retired adventurer, etc.
An excellent options of villagers.
Also should be included are the women folk as they can be pretty fierce when defending the home. I think possibly the Villagers should have a high morale/ back to the wall option.
Also terrain, a village can have lots of stone walls, wicker fences, hedges, ditches, small outhouses and middens.
Loads of obstacles to break up any raiders into much smaller groups.
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Lots of interesting ideas in this thread! :)
Check out the Town Raid Scenario discussed halfway down this page: https://daleswargames.blogspot.com/2022/09/another-scenario-for-one-hour-skirmish.html
I'm not much in grid-based games nor in victory points-based games, but the scenario is interesting, thanks for the link. :)
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Another factor to help the villagers - the village pub or perhaps a brewery. If the orcs get into it they have to pass a moral test or take to drinking the local brew with the expected results on their fighting skills.
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I think if we're talking ORCS specifically, morale versus morale is going to be critical. Not only should the villagers have a "back to the wall" option, but the Orcs morale should be very brittle. Starts out high as anything, but easily cracked by losses, with more frequent and severe morale tests for a gang who thought a village would be easy pickings and finding out it's not going to be so easy as that. In the same vein, perhaps the villagers might have tougher morale tests early on, but progressively easier ones (possibly with benefits accrued) as the orcs take losses or are simply held off.
Another thing which holds potential is to invert the regular trope of orcish "hordes", whereby there are more villagers than orcs. The Orcs would be a well-armed and armoured (compared to the villagers) raiding party, but the villagers will have strength in numbers, so long as their morale holds.
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Another factor to help the villagers - the village pub or perhaps a brewery. If the orcs get into it they have to pass a moral test or take to drinking the local brew with the expected results on their fighting skills.
Yes! lol
It happened to one of my Pictish raiders in a game not long ago. He dismounted and went inside a house looking for booty, and found barrels of mead. The GM told me to roll a test and it failed: the warrior fell drunk. Two other Pictish warriors entered the house, rolled succesfully the same test, and put the barrels of mead on a peasant's cart and the drunken warrior on top and tied his horse behind. :D lol
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f52/14/79/97/63/20220126.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/14799763/2458)
Similar things could certainly happen to Orcs. ::)
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That's brilliant!
One idea that keeps popping into my mind is the villagers hastily assembling a mock up of their village including the village themselves ala Blazing Saddles lol But would they get it complete in time?
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There's some interesting ideas here for scenarios, last week we played a viking raid on another viking village, it was a revenge thing.
The attackers had to do the usual including burning and pillaging, points beging allocared for each, then they had to escape back to their ship. No escape no points. Carrying loot slowed you down.
There were a few men and women in the village when the attack started but as the alarm went out more and more villagers returned from the fields and then their neighbours started arriving.
The attackers had been held up initially by a brave defence then lost time doing what Vikings did and then held onto the loot too long trying to win points. They were cut off from the ship, outnumbered and only a clever bit of thinking saved them.
We played the game cooperatively against the village but competitively for loot and destruction points. It got quite scary when we realised we needed to run to escape but couldn't disengage from the enemy and run.
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You can make this a "fog of war" scenario, where the peasants are familiar with the terrain, and the orcs are not. In fact, "fog of war", where one side (eg. defenders, or scouts) has better knowledge of the terrain would be the norm. But in wargames, it's accepted that both sides have perfect knowledge of the terrain (ie. both players can see the game board), which is rarely the case in actual combat (hence, the random die roll, I suppose).
Anyway, particularly for those in the UK who want their peasants (: RPE miniatures just started their "Villagers and Pillagers" KS, and it includes an add-on for peasant militia.
"Add-on 1: Peasant Militia set of 4 (DSA miniatures, with integral round base) £10
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rpeminiatures/villagers-and-pillagers-28mm-metal-townsfolk-and-henchmen
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/038/725/084/9b05867f6aeb543dcbdae554414927cb_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.0.2&w=680&fit=max&v=1664313165&gif-q=50&q=92&s=cfd551bf7ce5bf4e03cc3cf5da5b8fe2)
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A few other possibilities:
The village was founded with land grants to time-expired soldiers, who have brought some "souvenirs" with them. The village is the home of hard rock miners who work a nearby iron mine - tough men with tough tools. The village is the home of lumberjacks who work the nearby forest - tough men with axes. The village is the seat of an order of religious fanatics.
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A few other possibilities:
The village was founded with land grants to time-expired soldiers, who have brought some "souvenirs" with them. The village is the home of hard rock miners who work a nearby iron mine - tough men with tough tools. The village is the home of lumberjacks who work the nearby forest - tough men with axes. The village is the seat of an order of religious fanatics.
Great ideas! For the first, you could have the weapons and armour cached in various spots that only the villager players know about ("there's a sword hidden in the rafters of the house with the red roof; there's a suit of plate armour in the main hall; there are crossed spears on the wall of the inn ...").
That might give a nice "swing" to the game; unarmoured villagers might be no match for well-armed orcs in hand-to-hand combat - but might be more than a match for them when tooled up. So you'd have a sort of race to get the defenders to their gear as the orcs launch a surprise attack. If you combined that with opportunities for improvising (releasing and stampeding herd animals; setting up traps with fishing nets; or toppling totem poles) and don't have enough regular weapons to go round, you could fuel all sorts of interesting cooperative play and inventiveness.
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Great ideas! For the first, you could have the weapons and armour cached in various spots that only the villager players know about ("there's a sword hidden in the rafters of the house with the red roof; there's a suit of plate armour in the main hall; there are crossed spears on the wall of the inn ...").
That might give a nice "swing" to the game; unarmoured villagers might be no match for well-armed orcs in hand-to-hand combat - but might be more than a match for them when tooled up. So you'd have a sort of race to get the defenders to their gear as the orcs launch a surprise attack. If you combined that with opportunities for improvising (releasing and stampeding herd animals; setting up traps with fishing nets; or toppling totem poles) and don't have enough regular weapons to go round, you could fuel all sorts of interesting cooperative play and inventiveness.
Take the idea a little further.
1) Make it a co-operative game
2) All the players are...villagers
3) Weapons are, as suggested, dotted around the village.
4) It is the night of a great festival/booze up/party, & gather them at the Tavern.
5) Don't tell the players about the Orcs/Vikings etc.
Just explain it is a drinking/dancing/wenching game.
Players will lose face if they fall behind with the drinking etc.
If they can't pay for their round they can always swap that old
sword/helmet/shield etc that they NEVER use.
6) When all the players are in a right old state...
Bring on the Orcs/Vikings etc.
lol lol lol lol
Cue things like, 'Dat's my swwwoord! Giz it back!!'
' Shoot that Orc!' 'Whych one??? I see three'
'Whhoooze got me shield?'
These ideas are from a game I never managed to get a copy of, 'Saki & Samurai'
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Great & inspirational thread.
The idea of co-op gaming has legs. Making it competitive and giving the players some choices could be a lark. For example, the local big man and toadies - well fed, trained & equipped - can grab their weapons and join the fray quickly or take more time to gear up properly by putting their armour on. Victory conditions could punish them for holding back and not leaping to the defence of the locals. However, doing so would make them a tougher nut for the raiders to crack.
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… For example, the local big man and toadies - well fed, trained & equipped - can grab their weapons and join the fray quickly or take more time to gear up properly by putting their armour on. Victory conditions could punish them for holding back and not leaping to the defence of the locals. However, doing so would make them a tougher nut for the raiders to crack.
I might have to make an exception or two, and add a “local big man and toadies”.
Or, perhaps the raid happens while the best of the hunters are out. Then, while the battle is on, the hunters return and add their muscle and skills to the fight.
Dan
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Update:
I just checked out this video and link and, it seems that, when properly led, peasants could accomplish quite a bit in battle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anygNCJGCD0&t=605s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants%27_Revolt
So, if you want to use the exact same peasants for something historical, now you have it! I don’t know about you guys, but I REALLY love versatility.
Dan
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=138802.0
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As per Richard II's promises to the Revolting Peasants...
A VERBAL contract is not worth the paper it is written on. lol lol lol
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Lol. Spot on!
Dan
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We’re there similar peasant revolts in the rest of Europe at that time (post Black Death)? Does anyone here know?
Thanks
Dan
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants%27_War
Maybe this or the history of the peasant republic of ditmarschen.
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Awesome, thanks!
Dan
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By the way, I’ve just been made aware of the following 15mm “peasants” sets available now:
- Baueda has a set of peasants with improvised weapons in their Lombard range; and
(https://www.baueda.com/hostisimages/LNG11.jpg)
- Khurasan Miniatures has 3 or 4 sets of armed peasants in their Medieval and Crusader ranges
(https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/13THC-bows.jpg)
(https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/l14hc-bidowers.jpg)
(https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/l14thc-peasants.jpg)
(https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/l14thc-ribauds.jpg)
(https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/l14thc-span-slingers.jpg)
(https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/l14thc-polish-rustics.jpg)
And I haven’t even looked at Irregular Miniatures (and others) yet! It seems to me that nowadays there is a nearly unlimited number of 15mm options for anyone wanting to play a peasant revolution game/campaign, or play out a fantasy raid on a village or hamlet full of peasants.
Dan
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I got some Viking villagers and raiders from forged in battles. Villagers aren‘t armed but they have different villagers for different periods and cultures. I just need time to get the scenario done, working on it since your first post :D
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I just need time to get the scenario done, working on it since your first post :D
LoxIslay
That’s fantastic! Exciting news, in fact. Please share with us some photos and a short report, on this same thread, when you get your figures and terrain painted up. We could draw much inspiration from seeing what you have been able to accomplish up to that point, and on each successive phase of your project.
As for me, I just ordered a few 4Ground dark age/medieval houses from Noble Knight Games (on ebay), and I ordered the peasant/civilian figures from Khurasan, Fighting 15s, Baueda and Battle Valor. I will start assembling the houses later this week. It might be a week or two before I start any of the painting.
Thanks
Dan
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UPDATE
27 peasants are cleaned, primed and ready for painting. I haven’t gotten to the Battle Valor “civilians” (village folk) set yet.
I bought 3 of the Khurasan peasant figure sets. It includes a set of Welsh archers that look like hunters for a village:
- 15mm Welsh infantry with longbows Item# WELSH-ARCHERS
- Peasants or lower class crusading pilgrims (x 20) Item# KM-1208
- Late 14th century Spanish Slingers Item# L14THC-SPAN-SLINGERS
Also, I bought the following MDF kits:
2- 4Ground “Saxon/Late Medieval Dwelling” 15S-DAR-101
1- 4Ground “Saxon/Late Medieval Hovel” 15S-DAR-102
I've never assembled an MDF kit before, so these 3 small houses should be interesting. :)
PS. After I picked out all the “duplicates”, I’m left with two near identical piles. Actually, most of the figures in that “duplicates” pile are unique poses.
Dan
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Sounds Great! I'm very excited to see your Progress. In hope to push and inspire each other, i will add my progress so far.
In the Pipeline:
- 13 Orc Bows and 13 Orc Raiders primed and ready
- Orc Chariot ready
- Baueda Peasants and some 3D Printed Villagers primed and ready
- Baueda Slingers an Bowman also Primed
- Small number of Viking Villagers Painted
- Several Tents for Hunters acquired
- Wolfs painted
- Pigs painted
- more boars and wildlife
Planned:
- making a Charcoal burner Place and converting some Miniatures
- converting or sculpting some beekeepers
- assembling and priming orc wolf riders
- i definitely need more buildings
- i need a nice river and a bridge
- Monks i shopped so many lol i think some will be turned to undead or cultist ones
As you can see Ideas for Scenario variations are plenty o_o
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Oh man, that is exciting news indeed. And it’s definitely added encouragement to push on. Thanks for listing all those details.
Dan
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Oh man, that is exciting news indeed. And it’s definitely added encouragement to push on. Thanks for listing all those details.
Dan
Dan i have a question how many buildings do you plan for your Village?
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LoxIslay
I’ll start with a small hamlet of 3 for now, with the three MDF kits above, but I want to scratchbuild some basic A-frame sod huts for the poorer peasants. I might expand it to 8 or 9 max.
How many do you plan on having?
Dan
PS. Perhaps I should have these ranger guys show up halfway through the game to help the villagers:
https://www.battlevalorgames.com/product/legian-ranger-bowmen-35-figures-/2040?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=true
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8-9 max was also what i thought.
I think i plan in several Stages.
- Small Farm house as a test Skirmish will be the Start
- After this 4-5 Buildings
- also a small celtic round house as an old witch or lumberjack hut as an 'outpost' or the coal burner camp once its finished or a hunting party with some tents
- and after this going for 8-9 and a church/temple
Building style is also a bid open, i mean i got a ringfort that could be used. Also more later Dark Age buildings are needed anyway. And some High Medieval/Fantasy stuff is already done.
Also the orignal WD Article about the fimir with the village raid scenario for WHFRP and paul
bonner art is somehow sticking around in my head.
P.S. The Rangers are cool. Saving Partys are always a nice option to diverse the game. A Nobel Knight with his scarce (hopefully the right english word) coming through the village, some dwarven merchants, some pointy ears all possible. lol
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P.S. The Rangers are cool. Saving Partys are always a nice option to diverse the game. A Nobel Knight with his scarce (hopefully the right english word) coming through the village, some dwarven merchants, some pointy ears all possible. lol
A knight and his squire would certainly help with the defence. Some other saving party thoughts off the top of my head: gypsy caravan, armed pilgrims, tax collector and guards (a very mixed blessing); stereotypical adventuring party (fighter, cleric, wizard & thief). I'd be tempted to make such things one of many possible random events and to roll for what arrives. Events that can either aid or hamper the attackers or defenders might be interesting.
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A knight and his squire would certainly help with the defence. Some other saving party thoughts off the top of my head: gypsy caravan, armed pilgrims, tax collector and guards (a very mixed blessing); stereotypical adventuring party (fighter, cleric, wizard & thief). I'd be tempted to make such things one of many possible random events and to roll for what arrives. Events that can either aid or hamper the attackers or defenders might be interesting.
I like the double rading party (Tax Collector) :D
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Now i had to write a Draft with some Ideas. All a bit vague, but what better thing to do on holiday. Just wanted to brainstorm a bit more.
Hope no native english speaker gets a stroke. (sorry if so)
i. Rangers
1. A group of Forest Bandits in Light Armour trying to use the Distraction to make a good loot.
2. A group of Outlaws will help the Villagers as long as the Moral is high. They will flee if the Orcs gain the upper hand.
3. The selfless Rangers of the King are experts in killing Orcs.
4. You cant trust these Elves, but at least they kill Orcs pretty fast.
ii. Travelling people
1. Strangers are never a good sign or are they? Especially if they are heavily armoured and look more like mercenaries. Flip a coin to see if they help or slaughter the villagers.
2. These people look a bit to pale to be living. Must be a Necromancers Dream to stumble upon a fresh battlefield.
3. You heard the rumors of the night traveling folk. They Drink Blood and capture your children. Flip a coin to see if these are real Vampires or just kind helping People.
4. The Carnival is in Town! Great to have some Stranger with different Powers helping to kill some orcs. Flip a coin to see if they are good or evil.
iii. Tax Collector
1. You didn’t know the Kings Tax Collector was dead, but this Elf with dark armour and a whip, has some good arguments, that he is the new Tax Collector. A Dark Elf party tries to enslave the villagers and orcs.
2. The Gods have a strange humor. Sending the most hated Tax Collector in the hole Realm. A good servant he has only one desire, to protect his tax collection and to get the most livestock and money out of this burning place. A Villagers live is completely useless.
3. Dead Villagers don’t pay Taxes. Lets kill some Orcs.
4. They say the new Queen has such a beautiful gaze that it freezes the Blood in your veins. So it should be no surprise that the new tax collector is an expert in catching villagers for their blood.
iv. Knight and Squire
1. You here’d the Tale of Robber Barons, but you never thought to see one and a orc for the first time in your life at the same day. Its a bad day to be a villager
2. The shining Armour blindes the peasant eyes and saves the day!
3. These knights look kinda strange. Hopefully the piety of the villagers is convincing enough. Flip a coin if the crusaders help the Villagers or try to cleans the hole area.
4. The Horn of the kings guard echos from the hills surrounding the village, its the prince!
v. Armed Pilgrims
1. These guys kill orcs because their god says so. Better don’t Stand between them and the Orcs.
2. You always wondered why these Monks had burning flails, until you saw a burning orc running towards the well.
3. These Paladins are known to cleans complete landscapes from infidels. Throw a coin to see if they help the villagers or burn everything to the ground.
4. Its the King on a Pilgrimage! Lets hope his entourage has some weapons.
vi. Adventure Party
1. The myths are true! The famous monster hunters are real and here to save the day.
2. They are no human and they use magic and they eat kids, once a drunkard told you. But they kill monsters if the price is right.
3. A wizard and his children and a dwarf and a elf and two humans walk in a Inn…
4. You have never seen such muscles and long hair. Must be the most handsome Barbarian in the World. Flip a coin to see if he follows the right god, and doesn’t want to drink blood from your skull.
vii. Merchant
1. They have long beards and smell like beer, but they have also axes who split orcs in half.
2. They have long heads and beards and smell burned, but you have never seen a dwarf bevor so maybe they are friendly slavers.
3. These goods are so rare and exclusive only a king could buy them. If the Villagers help protect the Merchant they earn a nice bounty.
4. They call themselves Merchants, but are definitely a raiding party. Orcs or Villagers makes no difference for them.
viii. The Doctor/Scholar/Elder/Bounty hunter
1. Hey the doc is back in town, but why does he wear a beak mask? The People on his wagon look a bit bloated? At least the orcs fear him.
2. This strange wise man has some good inventions, that definitely help to save the village or at least thats what you thought, until one exploded.
3. For centuries the old women of the town ventured into the woods and came always back in the time of Need.
4. A group of Bounty hunters arrives at the Village, Flip a coin to see if they hunt a villager or the orc boss.
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Some great ideas there!
Re the adventuring party, I'd also suggest randomizing their experience level... Are they level 1 rat killers, experience fighters or literal gods of war? Could make for a fun extra element
*Villager* "look - wandering adventurers! We're saved!"
Newbie fighter with a blunted rusty dagger attacks the weediest looking goblin and loses
*Villager* "...nevermind"
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Some great ideas there!
Re the adventuring party, I'd also suggest randomizing their experience level... Are they level 1 rat killers, experience fighters or literal gods of war? Could make for a fun extra element
*Villager* "look - wandering adventurers! We're saved!"
Newbie fighter with a blunted rusty dagger attacks the weediest looking goblin and loses
*Villager* "...nevermind"
Thats a good Idea!
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Some great ideas there!
Re the adventuring party, I'd also suggest randomizing their experience level...
Excellent. :D
In a fantasy game I ran some years ago, a player with a Hobgoblins troop had to explore some ruins before going to the main battlefield for a fight vs Humans and Dwarves etc.
In the ruins he encountered a group of four human NPCs, there was a fighter, a wizard, a female cleric and a thief (all very old vintage figures) who were running after a poor lonesome Kobold and shouting they wanted to gain “experience points“ whatever that is. The Hobgoblins killed them very easily. lol
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four human NPCs... running after a poor lonesome Kobold and shouting they wanted to gain “experience points“
:D
Perfect!
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v. Armed Pilgrims
1. These guys kill orcs because their god says so. Better don’t Stand between them and the Orcs.
2. You always wondered why these Monks had burning flails, until you saw a burning orc running towards the well.
3. These Paladins are known to cleans complete landscapes from infidels. Throw a coin to see if they help the villagers or burn everything to the ground.
4. Its the King on a Pilgrimage! Lets hope his entourage has some weapons.
LoxIslay
I REALLY like your “Armed Pilgrims” option. Khurasan has “armed” pilgrims under the code KM-1208:
https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/frankish.html
(https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/k1208.jpg)
Also, if I’m not mistaken, I think Essex makes one or two “Warrior Monks” sets that would be perfect as leaders of a group of armed pilgrims!
Dan
NOTE: After I picked out all the “duplicates” (extras), I’m left with two near identical piles. Actually, many of the figures in that “duplicates” pile are unique poses. About 40 figures that I’ll never use. If anyone is interested, give me a shout. These are from the Khurasan, Baueda and Fighting 15s figures.
EDIT
Here are those Essex armed monks:
https://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/products/mfpe15?_pos=4&_sid=472a61940&_ss=r
https://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/products/mfpe14?_pos=6&_sid=472a61940&_ss=r
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I've been reading the Sellswords and Spellcasters session reports by 6mmfan (good job!) and am starting to think S&S would be an amusing recreation of an orc raid. Except that the players would be playing orcs, and the AI would be playing the peasants, maybe using kobold stats or something. The game system does annoying things like Ambushing, placing tough monsters on the board, that sort of random thing, perhaps to simulate guerrilla tactics, or chaotic ones! You'd take out any "elite" defending units, or leave them in as the self-appointed town protectors or would-be heroic adventurers!
One player has up to 5 characters, six players up to 2 each. So the game system supports 12 orc raiders! :D
S&S has some amusing negative traits that should suit orcs just fine!
Impulsive (-2 XP): The PC must always roll at least 2 activation dice.
Heavy Drinker (-3 XP): The PC drinks excessively. At the beginning of each game, roll d20. On a 1 or 2, the PC shows up drunk. On a 3 to 5, the PC shows up with a bad hangover.
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“Heavy Drinker (-3 XP): The PC drinks excessively. At the beginning of each game, roll d20. On a 1 or 2, the PC shows up drunk. On a 3 to 5, the PC shows up with a bad hangover.”
That “Heavy Drinker” option would make for a hilarious game! And it might even bring about a few “friendly fire” situations. Thanks for that.
Jon_1066 (on page 3) makes a similar suggestion.
Dan
PS. After I picked out all the “duplicates” (extras), I’m left with two near identical piles. Actually, many of the figures in that “duplicates” pile are unique poses. About 40 figures that I’ll never use. If anyone is interested, give me a shout. These are from the Khurasan, Baueda and Fighting 15s figures.
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In many times and places they would be militia, border farmer/guards. That would give them a fighting chance.
Many of the scavengers at battlefields may have kept the weapons they found, just in case. I’m sure they didn’t re-sell every single bit of arms and armor that they scavenged.
NOTE: After I picked out all the “duplicates” (extras), I’m left with two near identical piles. Actually, many of the figures in that “duplicates” pile are unique poses. About 40 figures that I’ll never use. If anyone is interested, give me a shout. These are from the Khurasan, Baueda and Fighting 15s figures.
Thanks
Dan
PS. I found this other vid on the Peasants Revolt of 1381, linked here for the benefit of those who expressed interest:
https://youtu.be/mOob2vbmLfk
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You know, this reminds me of the old mess that my group at the time had...
With Ronin, it was possible to flood the board using the peasants list where they might have enough people in play to win simply by sheer numbers that the other buntai in it wouldn't have the capability to all out kill enough to stem the tide
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That’s interesting! I’ve never played Ronin, so I had no idea it had that possible scenario.
Dan
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That’s interesting! I’ve never played Ronin, so I had no idea it had that possible scenario.
Dan
One of the more obnoxious forces that someone can have is just to spam peasants with no upgrades.
You can take down a lot of the others by sheer numbers.
Most of the good forces are like 5-8 minis in it...Peasants done that way are like 50+ figures...you need to get very lucky to actually harm an opponent, but you have a LOT of chances to get lucky and limited rounds tends to mean that you're still outnumbering them massively if they do as much damage as possible.
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That’s basically the effect I’m looking for. Lots of bee stings, coming from all directions, but you’re only able to swat one at a time.
Dan
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That’s basically the effect I’m looking for. Lots of bee stings, coming from all directions, but you’re only able to swat one at a time.
Dan
Just don't bring it to a tournament or campaign game, it's not as fun for a lot of people and it burns a LOT of time to play
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Isn’t that what zombie games are about? And they’re “loved” and played everywhere. :)
Dan
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Isn’t that what zombie games are about? And they’re “loved” and played everywhere. :)
Dan
Dan I see you must be a noble man to think of peasants are zombies, and seeing fun in hunting them. lol Now I know what inspires you :-X
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I can’t stop laughing. Thanks, bro. I needed that. Specially today.
Dan
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:D It also made my day! Thanks for this fun thread.
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Isn’t that what zombie games are about? And they’re “loved” and played everywhere. :)
Dan
The issue comes from when players are expecting a skirmish game and end up in a situation where it's just a chaff swarm that drags things out way to long
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:D It also made my day! Thanks for this fun thread.
If, at the end of the day, it wasn’t fun, then why do it, right? I do it all for the fun!!!
Dan