Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Pijlie on November 10, 2022, 08:58:20 PM
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My take on this particular hobby-related trait: OOOOH Shiney! syndrome
We wargamers are often accused of suffering from the so-called Ooooh Shiny! syndrome; we see something interesting in a movie or on the web and bang! there you have a new project. If you don't watch out you'll be up to your neck in unfinished projects in no time.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhcWdz9PYDJc7sLMaCe25wEKuUoZdlrs8Yuz_tkxXMg7Cs-SR1X9EfX4vV5jw8y5Ajw65EUDj6i5kHSol_g-B1Z8lSS_0SPIBkye5lI2VLXl0dnjZFBTBirwaQk-w4BS3lZMLKNxShQi06tHO4H1lnpyl42H2NFWHsrYQKklOJTu6WHLHmdXnWEcLSZ/w640-h360/maxresdefault.jpg)
Do you want to know more?
https://pijlieblog.blogspot.com/2022/11/dealing-with-oooh-shiney-syndrome-in-5.html (https://pijlieblog.blogspot.com/2022/11/dealing-with-oooh-shiney-syndrome-in-5.html)
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Step 1 - new book/ film/ figures/ rules trigger new project.
Step 2a - I read everything I can find on the subject. Things that will likely never figure in the project. Sumerian boat building, the feeding and watering of a Roman legion, the names and tonnage of every ship in the Spanish Armada and their English Opponents, obscure armour of The Great Patriotic War ... you get the idea. Outlay ... possibly greater than on figures and terrain.
Step 2b - In between reading create lists of figures needed for a modest force. The army of the Sumerian city of Shurrupak at 1:1 scale, Davout's Third Corp at Borodino, a Panzer Division with additional assets for the Kursk era. You know, nothing too big. They can always be expanded later.
Step 3 - Almost certainly going to be playing solo. Better get an opposing force ... or two
Step 4 ... or three or four or six or ten!
Step 5 - Buy required figures ... and some extras .... because .... Ooh! Shiny! And some terrain.
Step 6 - Paint some test figures. Have a push about game to get used to the rules.
Step 7 - GOTO 1
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I just read the blog post - I like it. The points all make a lot of practical sense to me and keep pointing back to the most important bit, having fun through the hobby. Thanks for putting that stuff in words Piljie!
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A few observations based on bitter experience ( and a large lead pile!). If shiny relates to figures always research which rulset you plan to use. I have several "failed" projects due to this. I would disagree about not having a deadline especially if several are planning to be involved. Yes don't bother with a Microsoft Project plan, but having an objective such as a big club night game keeps everyone focused. Again I have several projects under layers of dust where my mates went off and found new shiny projects rather than finish what we started.
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A few observations based on bitter experience ( and a large lead pile!). If shiny relates to figures always research which rulset you plan to use. I have several "failed" projects due to this.I would disagree about not having a deadline especially if several are planning to be involved. Yes don't bother with a Microsoft Project plan, but having an objective such as a big club night game keeps everyone focused. Again I have several projects under layers of dust where my mates went off and found new shiny projects rather than finish what we started.
But that is kinda my point. A project cannot "fail" as long as it is ongoing and might either be finished or used for other projects. It is not "unfinished" as long as those dusty figures might either be reused or sold to finance something new.
This not just semantics, but an actual mindset. Leadpiles are no piles of shame, but piles of resources. But only after the deadlines go out of the window....
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Step 1 - new book/ film/ figures/ rules trigger new project.
Step 2a - I read everything I can find on the subject. Things that will likely never figure in the project. Sumerian boat building, the feeding and watering of a Roman legion, the names and tonnage of every ship in the Spanish Armada and their English Opponents, obscure armour of The Great Patriotic War ... you get the idea. Outlay ... possibly greater than on figures and terrain.
Step 2b - In between reading create lists of figures needed for a modest force. The army of the Sumerian city of Shurrupak at 1:1 scale, Davout's Third Corp at Borodino, a Panzer Division with additional assets for the Kursk era. You know, nothing too big. They can always be expanded later.
Step 3 - Almost certainly going to be playing solo. Better get an opposing force ... or two
Step 4 ... or three or four or six or ten!
Step 5 - Buy required figures ... and some extras .... because .... Ooh! Shiny! And some terrain.
Step 6 - Paint some test figures. Have a push about game to get used to the rules.
Step 7 - GOTO 1
lol lol lol
Minimal completeness might do you a service then.
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I do like the idea of minimal completeness - aiming for enough stuff finished to play a game is a good goal.
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Nice one, Pijlie! I recognise the syndrome but grew out of it long ago. Nowadays I seem to suffer from the opposite problem, my lead pile lagging behind my interests. I fought through most of the Balkan Wars 1912-1913 with proxies before I got my armies for them; likewise the Hungarian War of Independence 1848-1849; and I never actually had an unpainted lead pile for these as I got them custom painted!
So my recipe would be:
1. Find ruleset that works for multiple interesting conflicts, suits some of your existing collection of armies, and pleases all types of player.
2. Attract group of friends and infect them with shared enthusiasm.
3. Let said friends paint more armies, create terrain and design scenarios.
4. Play huge variety of games, a different battle every week or two, for over a decade.
Simple really!
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I struggle with this problem, so with my latest project (The Infernal Crusade), I've set some deliberate boundaries/restrictions to prevent me from going crazy:
1. Stick with only one theme ("fantasy" in my current case)!
2. Stick with only one, maybe two, miniatures manufacturer(s) tops!
3. Stick with one setting! If the latest idea I've had can't be played inside a 2' x 2' dungeon chamber, forget about it!
Even with these restrictions in place, the temptation to break away from them and try something outside of them is strong, but I know all too well the consequences of what will happen if I do!
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Step 1 - new book/ film/ figures/ rules trigger new project.
Step 2a - I read everything I can find on the subject. Things that will likely never figure in the project. Sumerian boat building, the feeding and watering of a Roman legion, the names and tonnage of every ship in the Spanish Armada and their English Opponents, obscure armour of The Great Patriotic War ... you get the idea. Outlay ... possibly greater than on figures and terrain.
Step 2b - In between reading create lists of figures needed for a modest force. The army of the Sumerian city of Shurrupak at 1:1 scale, Davout's Third Corp at Borodino, a Panzer Division with additional assets for the Kursk era. You know, nothing too big. They can always be expanded later.
Step 3 - Almost certainly going to be playing solo. Better get an opposing force ... or two
Step 4 ... or three or four or six or ten!
Step 5 - Buy required figures ... and some extras .... because .... Ooh! Shiny! And some terrain.
Step 6 - Paint some test figures. Have a push about game to get used to the rules.
Step 7 - GOTO 1
Ok, clearly you have some kind of spy cameras set up in my home... stop it!!! :)
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The biggest problem I'm having right now is having sparks of inspiration and not finding suitable rules/minis that exactly fit. I've some projects lined up, like Colonial Portuguese etc, and just not sure what rules to use, whether to single base or in multiples. I'm watching Herzog's Cobra Verde again and I always fancy doing it in miniature but know I'll get some 28mm from a few different manufacturers then discover they're all different sizes, or they don't quite fit my needs.
It just all seems to be Medieval and/or Dark Ages atm and, while I have a Venetian 1495 army ready to prime, little else in the 'mainstream' periods is exciting me.
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Martin, I've now settled for single bases and the use of sabots. Yes it costs me more but it gives the flexibility to use figures for "big battle games" or skirmishes. I still have armies based in multiples for Impetus and now regret that with the advent of rules such as SAGA, Lion Rampant and Infamy. As for "new periods" or theatres I'm currently finishing Sharp Practice French-Indian Wars and Maorti Wars forces and have a Vendee Rebellion rebel army to paint.
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Ditto on the single base/sabot approach. It allows a project to proceed through 1:1 skirmish games, 12 bases a side ‘big skirmish’ to 1:many battle sized games (if the project actually gets that far before ‘ooooh shiny!’ takes over!).
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Ditto on the single base/sabot approach. It allows a project to proceed through 1:1 skirmish games, 12 bases a side ‘big skirmish’ to 1:many battle sized games (if the project actually gets that far before ‘ooooh shiny!’ takes over!).
Yes, that is an excellent way to build along on top of an existing project.
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I tried sabot basing my NKE when I was doing them and it was an absolute disaster! :-)
The sort of thing that would work perhaps for SP level, but I thought it was a great idea for Hail Caesar, so I did 24 man (and 36!) sabot bases! I also didn't use magnets, just got the sabots from Charlie Foxtrot and went ahead.
...then tried moving one completed unit from workbench to storage - I felt like a waiter trying to carry a tray with champagne glasses balanced on top of one another :-)
I've went back to DBx basing for it, I'll post the progress in the Ancients section. I was intending to use them for skirmish as well as HC, yet when I began there wasn't any Bronze Age specific skirmish games on the market anyway, so I've no idea what possessed me to think it was the right decision. There still isn't!
I decided to go with ADLG as the other Ancients players here are doing that. Unfortunately I began buying the army for HC, so I have piles of them I now don't need for an ADLG force :-)
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Martin, I will admit that sabots for large sized units can be a challenge. I have the same sort of issue with my phalanxes. However I find them fine for 10-12 figure units in 2 ranks. I also find cavalry on 50 x 20mm mdf bases fit fine on sabots, albeit I don't store them, like that.
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Step 1 - new book/ film/ figures/ rules trigger new project.
Step 2a - I read everything I can find on the subject. Things that will likely never figure in the project. Sumerian boat building, the feeding and watering of a Roman legion, the names and tonnage of every ship in the Spanish Armada and their English Opponents, obscure armour of The Great Patriotic War ... you get the idea. Outlay ... possibly greater than on figures and terrain.
Step 2b - In between reading create lists of figures needed for a modest force. The army of the Sumerian city of Shurrupak at 1:1 scale, Davout's Third Corp at Borodino, a Panzer Division with additional assets for the Kursk era. You know, nothing too big. They can always be expanded later.
Step 3 - Almost certainly going to be playing solo. Better get an opposing force ... or two
Step 4 ... or three or four or six or ten!
Step 5 - Buy required figures ... and some extras .... because .... Ooh! Shiny! And some terrain.
Step 6 - Paint some test figures. Have a push about game to get used to the rules.
Step 7 - GOTO 1
Yep…that’s also my way! lol
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With lifelong dedication and the blessing of the internet I've managed to refine it to 2 simple steps -
1. Oooh Shiny!
2. Click
Never fails
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With lifelong dedication and the blessing of the internet I've managed to refine it to 2 simple steps -
1. Oooh Shiny!
2. Click
Never fails
lol You obviously don't mind an abundance of resources lol
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All well and good (blog post and others posted here).
But what if you find out your main enjoyment of the hobby is identifying a period of interest, researching it (books, movies, etc.), determine what is available figure wise, deciding what to buy, buying it, and then sorting it out into units to be ready to paint?
The actual painting and playing are subsidiary to that process.
Then you can be in serious trouble over time - and wondering what part of the household is no longer needed because you need the space for that next project.
It grows worse when you start wondering if you really need your spouse to stick around since her stuff just gets in the way. Oh, then true disaster lurks ahead.
With a bit of jest here and there above, that is how I've arrived at having 20 periods of figures (and all sides per period) - mostly unpainted.
Of course, a lot of that is my retirement activity plan but the storage factor is a real challenge - I find, roughly, that what takes X space to store unpainted takes 3X space to store once painted.
So, if that is my "having fun" element, it is definitely time to adjust my focus. I do like painting and modeling and I can enjoy gaming with others when they bring a sense of humor to the table and don't take it all so seriously.
There is an upside to this 'affliction' - it helps keep figure and terrain manufacturers in business!
However, sorry guys and gals of the manufacturing set, I've promised myself to finish one last collection and then join up to MACA (Miniatures Addiction Collecting Anonymous)!
MACA, at this point for me, is rather a three step process:
A. You are retired and can't afford such largesse when the painting Lead Mountain Range (LMR) is threatening to break the rafters in the attic.
B. The only remaining period of interest is already covered by using my AWI armies to stand in as SYW armies - with a quartet of heavy cavalry that isn't AWI specific.
C. You (or I) will be considered truly insane, not just hobby-crazed, if you buy anything else (except finishing that one project) men in white coats with a coat that buttons in the back will arrive to take you away to a room with rubber walls - without even so much as a single mini allowed.
That last bit should always be top of mind when ever the Ohh, Shiny virus rears its head. Get that vaccination now! ;)
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A. You are retired and can't afford such largesse when the painting Lead Mountain Range (LMR) is threatening to break the rafters in the attic.
As a retiree, I have bad news for you.
I'm living on just under 50% of what I had when I was in gainful employment.
My outgoings are around 30% of what they were when I was working.
Ergo, I have MORE disposable income rather than less.
Despite my varied ailments I fully expect to shuffle off this mortal coil in an avalanche of lead, plastic, resin and cardboard resulting from an injudicious opening of a cupboard full of unpainted minis and unplayed board games!
lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
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As a retiree, I have bad news for you.
I'm living on just under 50% of what I had when I was in gainful employment.
My outgoings are around 30% of what they were when I was working.
Ergo, I have MORE disposable income rather than less.
Despite my varied ailments I fully expect to shuffle off this mortal coil in an avalanche of lead, plastic, resin and cardboard resulting from an injudicious opening of a cupboard full of unpainted minis and unplayed board games!
lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
lol lol
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Be one with the Oooh Shiny. Cuz it's just gonna happen.
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Having suffered badly from the syndrome, I have finally stopped purchasing stuff I don't actually need. A diagnosis of ADHD pointed me in the right direction... now I need to get rid of 45 years of clutter.
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Having suffered badly from the syndrome, I have finally stopped purchasing stuff I don't actually need. A diagnosis of ADHD pointed me in the right direction... now I need to get rid of 45 years of clutter.
I think i may well be the same as you Dave ;).So easy to buy into a new game or range of miniatures or even both.
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Here is the realization that really changed tracks for me. Imagine my twenty periods all painted and game ready. Now think how often will I really play with each collection? If I gamed three times a week (not likely - though not impossible) that gives roughly 150 games a year. More likely it will be twice a month and then only maybe. That is only 24 games a year. That is once a year per collection - with some favorites getting extra outings. Now give myself 15 years of gaming like that, that means 16 of 20 collections get used only 15 times. And four collections get used 30 times. That seems a reasonable theory.
I think the reality is that very few people's collections (at least historical miniatures focused) rarely get to 15 total outings - and much rarer to get to 30 total outings over the life of the collection with its 'perpetrator'.
Which leads me to ask, how many of you have a collection of historical figures that has seen a game table 20 times? Thirty times? Forty times? Fifty times?
By far, my busiest collection over the last thirty-six highly active years might have seen 60 or 70 outings but probably closer to 40.
Remember, for most of us, our gaming pals want to put their collections on the table, too. That cuts into our own collections table top time.
Maybe I'm just an outlier. Well, I'm definitely out there given the numbers of figures I've collected, not the largest I've ever heard of but probably in the top five within my knowledge.
To return to the OP, I am trying to get myself geared to getting enough of each collection with at least enough painted to play a game. That is a sound idea. Now, can I make the transition and stick to it?
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FifteensAway, I sympathise totally. I game maybe 70 times per year, with periods running from ancient Egypt to sci-fi. I game ancients/medieval and WW2 most, but some of my expensively assembled armies hardly ever see the table. Several projects such as 10mm WW1 and 6mm ACW are finished but gaming them relies on others finishing their forces and finding decent rules.
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I think the reality is that very few people's collections (at least historical miniatures focused) rarely get to 15 total outings - and much rarer to get to 30 total outings over the life of the collection with its 'perpetrator'.
Which leads me to ask, how many of you have a collection of historical figures that has seen a game table 20 times? Thirty times? Forty times? Fifty times?
That is an interesting way of looking at things. I think I have few collections that have seen more than 20 games. However, for me that is not an objection against starting a period, as I tend to view my hobby as a combination of research, rules-tinkering, sculpting, scenario writing, gaming, terrain building, painting and collecting. I am, in a good German term, a totalhobbyist. So building a period and playing that 5 times before starting a new one is not a problem in my eyes.
But it is good to realize that minimum completeness might differ from person to person with regards to how one does define "minimum".
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I guess you can say I've been doing a cost:benefit analysis. And cost is more than the money, there is the time it takes to paint it all and the storage space. The benefit is the gaming time and, sometimes, the ooh-ahh factor. And, for me one of the best benefits is when I've finished a unit and it is fully painted, based, textured, and sealed and then taking a few minutes just to look at it and say to myself, "I did that." That is a very important benefit. But the big benefit is gaming with those finished figures (or buildings and terrain) and that is where the challenge arises.
How am I doing? Well, I did just go nuts over the last few months acquiring a vast Star Wars collection in 15 mm (all unpainted except for some ships, many of which will either get weathered or repainted). And I really have committed to finishing my German East Africa forces (animals, Portuguese and Belgians left to acquire, all else collected) and then be done collecting.
This matters for my long-term sanity and my wife's, too. And then there is my other hobby, model railroading! I need to have time for that (don't need more space for that, thankfully, it is already allocated - but I need to cull there, too.)
There is another 'rail' to consider with our miniatures. They can be used to illustrate narrative games - that can be actual games with others, solo games, or just staged story telling. That is a cool option I might explore at some point. Will need to really up my photographic skills to do that - and maybe get some better equipment for macro photography. Or I could really go full "nuts" and do some stop action animation with miniatures. That would be super cool but it takes tens of thousands of photographs to do it right (30 shots per second, that is 1,800 per minute, so just a five minute 'show' would be 9,000 photos.). But it is tempting. "One day, Arkadi, one day." (bonus points to anyone who knows the name of the movie for that quote! :D)
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Well, I combat the Ooh Shiny system with the following steps:
1. I must have written my own rules for the period/miniatures
2. I have play-tested with Proxies/standees to make sure the game works and is fun
3. I have laid out the rules in a usable format, not just a Word Doc.
4. I have added Non-Copyright pictures, purchased artwork and self-made diagrams
5. My budget can only come from Hobby proceeds, no other sources
Then, I am ready to buy some minis and start painting them up, as these will be the final parts needed to finalize the rules for a release. Typically, previous release sales are funding the next releases purchases.
That means I keep a pretty tight budget and schedule from year-to-year.
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Here is the realization that really changed tracks for me. Imagine my twenty periods all painted and game ready. Now think how often will I really play with each collection? If I gamed three times a week (not likely - though not impossible) that gives roughly 150 games a year. More likely it will be twice a month and then only maybe. That is only 24 games a year. That is once a year per collection - with some favorites getting extra outings. Now give myself 15 years of gaming like that, that means 16 of 20 collections get used only 15 times…
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Remember, for most of us, our gaming pals want to put their collections on the table, too. That cuts into our own collections table top time.
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To return to the OP, I am trying to get myself geared to getting enough of each collection with at least enough painted to play a game. That is a sound idea. Now, can I make the transition and stick to it?
I could theoretically count this; I have logs of games played by to 2001 or 2002. My goal has always been to get an average of a game a week, and I can tell you, since I’ve been keeping records, that I think I reached that one year. Most years are 30-40 games, which is still pretty good as far as I am concerned. Looking at my projects list, I have 27 things listed right now, of which 18 can support some sort of game.
If I’m responsible for about half the games that get played each year (since I have two gaming sons, am a member of a club, and am going to American conventions where participation games are the usual thing), that’s probably…hmm…40/2 x 20, or ~400 games in the past twenty years. So, I should have a few projects, at least, that have seen the table 20 times. I do know that I have a few outliers in there. I’ve got a 6mm Spanish Civil War project in a box that hasn’t been on the table since 2005.
I’m now tempted to pull out the stack of notebooks and really see what the answer is, but I am guessing that there are probably four or five projects that see the bulk of the play, and the rest are somewhat neglected.
Given that my father is still puttering with his hobbies at 91 (and he’s 30 years older than me), I like to hope that I might have 30 years left.
If I rolled all that together, I feel like the rational choice would be to have no more than one new start at a time, and concentrate on the top 5. Some of the bottom five could be sold off.
I’m not quite that rational yet, but now that we’re back to gaming live regularly, I have been finding it easier to work on the things that I’m playing, which reduces the impulse to start something completely new. (During the height of the pandemic, I’m afraid, shopping was entertainment … )
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> we see something interesting in a movie or on the web and bang! there you have a new project.
I find it interesting that I absolutely positively never ever ever (: started a project this way. Not that my interest (buying spree!) is any better, since it's almost always driven by hype. (: Lasting Tales and, before the pandemic, Gloomhaven, were my last big projects and this is how they went:
0. Buy boardgames miniatures in bulk to fill whatever genres I'm missing. Yep, this is the expensive part. Hello, CMON and Reaper.
1. Find a miniatures ruleset that I actually like. Ruleset will typically be in a genre I'm interested in and have mini's for.
2. Proxy, if necessary, any miniatures I need for the game.
3. Play until I need to paint some miniatures for the next scenario or encounter.
4. Paint!
5. Repeat until campaign is over!
I guess technically I don't have unfinished projects, because these boardgame miniatures don't require assembly. I do have a ton of boardgames I haven't played yet...!
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I think the reality is that very few people's collections (at least historical miniatures focused) rarely get to 15 total outings - and much rarer to get to 30 total outings over the life of the collection with its 'perpetrator'.
Which leads me to ask, how many of you have a collection of historical figures that has seen a game table 20 times? Thirty times? Forty times? Fifty times?
By far, my busiest collection over the last thirty-six highly active years might have seen 60 or 70 outings but probably closer to 40.
So, I asserted that I had the data in my logs. I finally added it up to see. I started logging miniatures games played in January 1999, so I’m just short of 24 years of records at this point. I have 805 games logged, an average of about 33.5 per year. Data regarding collections time on the table is a little fuzzier, since it’s hard to tell whether my figures from a project shared wth a friend showed up on the table back in 2002 or whatever. However, my top collection, 40mm 18th century has been out ~74 times, trailing down to two collections tied for 4th (historical) place at ~21. That’s less than once per year for those, so I’d say your estimates seem reasonable. The moral, such as it is, is that I should probably concentrate on the top 5, since they form the bulk of the gaming over the years.