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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: nozza_uk on November 16, 2022, 10:10:41 AM

Title: Are you Slap-Chopping? - Now includes Suck Cut (yes, really!)
Post by: nozza_uk on November 16, 2022, 10:10:41 AM
My social media timelines seem to be inundated with references to a newish painting technique called 'slap-chopping'.

If you've never heard of it (and I hadn't), these YouTube vids may help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH3WGHw9eDw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH3WGHw9eDw) & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKztEjvGsVw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKztEjvGsVw)

Has anyone tried it? What's your experience of 'slap-chopping'?

Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 16, 2022, 10:56:28 AM
I think I could make a reasonable claim to have invented it three years ago ;) - or at least to have been one of the first to try it:

http://hobgoblinry.blogspot.com/2019/09/contrast-paints-and-black-undercoat.html
 (http://hobgoblinry.blogspot.com/2019/09/contrast-paints-and-black-undercoat.html)

It is a very quick technique for getting miniatures done quickly. One of the refinements I've picked up from YouTube is to use colours other than white and grey. For these trolls, I used buff and ivory - and I got all three done in about an hour.

(https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=130751.0;attach=183303;image)
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Bloggard on November 16, 2022, 12:34:50 PM
thanks very much for posting that nozza.

seen links on YT, and, put off by the usual gurning expressions and click-bait titles of the 'personalities', have passed on watching.

But that's a nicely done vid. (that's the guy that was all over GW and then 'disappeared', right?).

No doubt Hobgoblin is correct.
**Also it seems, effectively, to be the 'zenithal' highlighting technique (just not so ... zenithal / directional) that people were talking about pretty much as soon as contrast paints launched.
[edit: ah right - see comments from others below]

But it's nice to see it given this easy encapsulation / point of entry, with a memorable name (**actually, Tikitang puts it very well below - it is actually a very dumb name - but ... memorable) etc.

I think his result is a little 'weak' finally (for my taste).
Also, he seems to be calling Contrast paint decanted onto a wet-pallette, but not further diluted, as 'stock', which can't be the case - it has to be absorbing water (?) - might explain how it turns out.
I prefer the full-brightness effect with CPs.
Hobgoblin get's closer in his post (excellent stuff as ever).

But I guess there's always going to be a trade-off between transparency and strength of colour with this technique, also avoiding the shadow areas becoming to muddy etc.

anyhow, giving this a proper go might actually get me to the point of 'painting' some figures again.

Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: snitcythedog on November 16, 2022, 01:08:56 PM
I am more of a shake weight kind of guy.  lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwIJlEsIVZQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwIJlEsIVZQ)
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Bloggard on November 16, 2022, 01:50:57 PM
thank god you didn't post a link to the 'shake-weight for men (unofficial)' ...
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: BeneathALeadMountain on November 16, 2022, 02:08:09 PM
This technique isn’t new at all and has just been ‘promoted’ recently by the poor souls who thought they could enjoy their hobby and make money through it with YouTube (good for them but it looks like miserable, formulaic work at times) and was called underpainting when I was shown it as a basic technique (along with dry brushing etc) in the 80’s.

To be honest the only reason it’s become “the new thing” is it’s not only easy (hands up all who have miniatures still waiting for paint) but also gives better results than it used to as there are lots of new paints designed for this style coming from every manufacturer. I’m not a massive fan of the look generally but it’s perfect for getting models to the table, and once at a base level you can start adding highlights etc. when you want to.

Stay safe,
BeneathALeadMountain
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: DS615 on November 16, 2022, 02:48:32 PM
This technique isn’t new at all and has just been ‘promoted’ recently by the poor souls who thought they could enjoy their hobby and make money through it with YouTube (good for them but it looks like miserable, formulaic work at times) and was called underpainting when I was shown it as a basic technique (along with dry brushing etc) in the 80’s.

Exactly, I was going to say the same, but you've done it better already.
Not new.  Except for the dumb name, that's new.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: tikitang on November 16, 2022, 03:01:01 PM
Don't like the name (sounds like the name of the latest fad that teenage delinquents are doing in the streets, probably involving the assault of random passers by), but also, no, I'm not doing it, and don't intend to either. That said, Hobgoblin's "slap-chopped" beasties are, as ever, impressive, particularly in light of the time taken. It usually takes me an hour just to put one layer of paint on one miniature!
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: BeneathALeadMountain on November 16, 2022, 04:39:11 PM
 :D Apologies I didn’t mean to sound quite as angry/cantankerous as that came off I’m just tired of the way the hobby is approached through social media (particularly youtube) - I’m running out of YouTube hobby channels I can watch  lol

BeneathALeadMountain
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 16, 2022, 05:20:16 PM
This technique isn’t new at all and has just been ‘promoted’ recently by the poor souls who thought they could enjoy their hobby and make money through it with YouTube (good for them but it looks like miserable, formulaic work at times) and was called underpainting when I was shown it as a basic technique (along with dry brushing etc) in the 80’s.

To be honest the only reason it’s become “the new thing” is it’s not only easy (hands up all who have miniatures still waiting for paint) but also gives better results than it used to as there are lots of new paints designed for this style coming from every manufacturer.

Yes, indeed - I did the same thing with inks/GW washes c.1989-1990, but it was much less effective because (a) the inks/washes were much less heavily pigmented and so much less effective at the job and (b) I didn't apply sufficiently heavy coats of the intermediate grey or whatever. My experiments then led to very dark and dull miniatures!

As I noted in that blog, contrast paints over a black undercoat are actually much better for speed-painting than contrast paints over the recommended white/off-white undercoat. That's because the neatening up (lining or whatever) takes much longer than the painting over the light undercoats; the splotches are hidden by the black base. I've got boxes full of semipainted stuff from when contrast paints first came in: I just haven't found the time to tidy them up!
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Fitz on November 16, 2022, 07:09:24 PM
Back in the distant past, when mighty mammoth roamed the tundra (the 1980s), I used to do this sort of thing with transparent watercolours. The effects weren't as good as with some of the modern speed-paint formulations, but the principle was exactly the same. More recently I've been using Vallejo (and others) acrylic inks for the same job, though the pre-mixed colour ranges are small.

I'd like to try some of the Army Painter speed-paints to get masses of mooks on the table quickly, but nobody local stocks them and I don't have a plump enough wallet to order them from afar on the off-chance that the colours are just what I want.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: robh on November 16, 2022, 08:07:41 PM
My social media timelines seem to be inundated with references to a newish painting technique called 'slap-chopping'

Not new or even newish, not by any means.
The technique has been around the gaming figure industry since the early 1980s to my knowledge. It was originally done with pigments (ink, enamel or acrylic for different effects) mixed with enamel gloss varnish.

As with pretty much everything on social media some "influencer" copies an existing thing, renames it and claims to have invented the newest bestest thing ever to boost their thread "click" count.  Total bollocks.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Vanvlak on November 17, 2022, 05:53:17 AM
Even I have been using this for at least a couple of years, that usually means the whole world is doing it as I tend to arrive late. In my case I use a more slapdash application of the lighter coat to get what I call a comic book effect. I agree it's fast and effective for finishing large numbers of models to a more than decent quality.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: nozza_uk on November 17, 2022, 09:50:08 AM
Total bollocks.

 lol lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: nozza_uk on November 17, 2022, 03:43:07 PM
I'm failing to see how slap-chopping is any faster than using contrast paints or washes.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: carlos marighela on November 17, 2022, 06:01:59 PM
All comes at the price of being described as an old slapper, albeit one that knows their chops.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: boneio on November 17, 2022, 06:33:08 PM
I’m running out of YouTube hobby channels I can watch

This ^^

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the words "slap chop" start popping up on YT channels I previously respected.

*I'm led to understand this isn't the channel owner's fault as such, it's because The Algorithm rewards awful clickbait titles and band-wagoning. One could point out that none of that matters if the channel owner is just, y'know, creating content because they want to rather than trying to be an "influencer" (shudder), or to "monetise" (less of a shudder, to be fair) ... but that's another can of worms.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: snitcythedog on November 17, 2022, 06:59:36 PM
For those that don't know, they ripped off the name from a late night infomercial in the US.  lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxGn2Egekic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxGn2Egekic)
I find may of the you tube channels to be less helpful and less thoughtful than most blogs.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: driller on November 17, 2022, 07:04:08 PM
If there is something this godforsaken hobby needs is some class, and re-naming grisalles to slapchop is not a step in the right direction. That word smells like GW stores.

Obviously, it's underpainting renamed by youtube dipshits. Also, I haven't seen a "slapchopped" figure that didn't look like shit. You really need an airbrush for the underpainting, for the figure to look good in the end.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: carlos marighela on November 17, 2022, 08:44:40 PM
That word smells like GW stores.

You mean greasy hair, pimple cream, teenage angst and desperation?

To be fair there's a GW store not a five minute walk from me. Smells quite neutral, largely due to the almost complete absence of customers.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: clibinarium on November 17, 2022, 09:57:17 PM
As others have pointed out, this is painting "en grisaille" which has been around since the early 14th Century(?) It's just doing it crudely and quickly, (nothing wrong with that for speed painting if that's what you need). It seems pretty fast, but I personally don't like the results in most cases. If its a quick drybrush there's a texture to the underpainting which shows through and doesn't look great. If you paint en grisaille with a brush (or very careful progressive dry brush) it can work, but is much slower. Here's Marco Frisoni doing it that hard way for nice results.


https://youtu.be/Mt0oaltZ2IU

The bigger problem to me is the colours that result. They often end up desaturated over the black or darker grey underpainting, and the contrast between this and the same hue over white, doesn't look right to me. To be technical the black to white underpainting is giving you the "value" i.e. dark to light, and the contrasts or inks or whatever are giving you the "hue" i.e. what we usually refer to as the colour. The problem is that separating these ideas into two distinct processes can falter when working with practical pigments- for example. Yellows are usually so transparent that they allow a lot of black to show through (and the result can be very greenish).

Greyscale to colour is a thing in digital painting too. This explanation opened my eyes as to why its not the best idea there either. Give it a look if you are interested in understanding colour theory


https://youtu.be/lJitss58XKc

Having watched a lot of these Slap-chop videos, what I've seen is generally very quick paintjobs that trade speed for quality. Or at least very few people seem to be able to make it look nice. Actually, Hobgoblin here has got about the best results I've seen so far, and I think there was someone else who had posted Fireforge(?) civilians recently which looked nice.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: ced1106 on November 17, 2022, 10:28:19 PM
Zenithal priming followed by a glaze. Contrast paints and washes are pretty much subsets of glazing, I'm pretty sure.

It's a very old technique, older than plastic. The Flemish (or Dutch Masters?) painting technique started with a monochrome sepia painting. Painters would make monochrome paintings, then buyers would select a painting, that the painter would then color in. This minimized the amount of time the painter would spend on a painting that might not be sold, so he could paint more monochrome paintings for customers to choose from. https://www.oldholland.com/academy/the-secrets-of-old-masters/

Zenithal priming and glazing tutorial. I actually wrote one on BGG using the same mini's...!
https://www.boardgamequest.com/how-to-quickly-paint-board-game-miniatures-part-2-zenithal-priming/

My painting often involves colored primers and washes, since this skips the primer step. I'll use Zenithal when it's a human figure with many different small areas to paint. Drybrush from black to white, with a dark wash to reduce the brush marks. Glaze or paint as you wish.

Still waiting for a painting technique that gets rids of mold lines... :P
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Daeothar on November 18, 2022, 08:31:29 AM
No I haven't tried it just yet, but I do plan to.

I recently re-discovered an entire WHFB Warriors of Chaos army I had built and undercoated black more than 15 years ago. I was a bit put off by the black primer, since the army mostly requires caucasian skin tones and loads of horses, and I've long since transitioned (back) to a white primer/undercoat.

Then I saw this latest Youtube craze. And regardless of the rebranding of an ancient technique, personalities of Youtubers, and an insipid name, it does look like a fine technique to quickly paint up an entire army.

I'm a layering, wetblending and glazing kind of guy myself, and my productivity is really not that high, so a technique that looks simple, fast and yields decent results is absolutely interesting to me.

For the record though; I've seen plenty of really nice results using this technique. Not award winning by a long shot, but absolutely good enough for me to accept as a finish for an entire army. There are examples that are shit, yes. But I can recall even more utter crap paintjobs using simple blocking and layering or dipping. So, for small projects consisting of individually distinct miniatures, I'll obviously stick to my tried and tested old-school painting, but for an army that would otherwise remain boxed for at least another decade or more? Absolutely.

And the fact that people are actively looking for ways to put all kinds of new products to use is a good thing in my opinion. It's obvious that people rile against the blatant monetization of Youtubers, and there is always resistance against new fads (that name is ridiculous); I remember the vitriol when Armypainter came out with their dipping solution back in the day. It was pretty much the same; 'they ripped off Future Floor Polish', 'the results are too glossy', and 'I used this technique back in the seventies already'.

All true, but at the same time, loads of people finally got a fully painted army on the table as a result. And if this slapch- (sorry; I just can't lol ) method does the same for painters worldwide, I'm all for it :)
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Malebolgia on November 18, 2022, 08:53:30 AM
The whole YouTube thing left me with a sour taste. As if it's something new or the newest trend or something. Urgh.

But the technique itself works a treat, I have been doing it even since Contrast was released. For example, this big model (50mm base) took me slightly more than 2 hours by doing zenithal priming with airbrush, getting contrasts on her and then some fast highlights and glazes. By using my old technique of doing a single colour priming and then painting everything it would have taken ages!

(https://paintoholic.nl/images/amelia2.jpg)

Same with these Walking Dead miniatures...I think each one took slightly more than an hour to fully complete. Zenithal priming, contrasts, highlights...and it's basically done.

(https://paintoholic.nl/images/hunters.jpg)
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: driller on November 18, 2022, 06:18:30 PM
Malebolgia, your figures look great. This is why the whole thing needs an airbrush. With the brush-drybrush, bad looking textures are created. Also, the airbrush somewhat negates the muddy desaturation Clibinarium has mentioned, which makes 99% of youtube slap... no way I'm using that word... GRISALLES ugly. (Irks me how they are all so satisfied with their results even tho the paintjob looks awful. Marco Frisoni is probably the only exception, but he is a whole different category, and he underpaints like a master.)
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: TheDaR on November 18, 2022, 10:32:08 PM
I agree that "Slap Chop" is not really anything revolutionary and new, other than the packaging of it for people who don't have any sort of art background.  People have been doing en grisalles for hundreds of years, and even in the wargaming hobby space, painting with inks or other translucent pigments over a zenithal highlight has been a speed painting technique I've been aware of for at least a decade.  Slap Chop is just a specific pattern of that general class of techniques. 

It does have a couple of semi-interesting specific refinements over the more general advice I've seen shared around the mini painting space.  First is doing a two tone drybrush, starting with a rather heavy all over drybrush of medium grey and then going to a lighter and more precise drybrush of white.  That grey midtone helps eliminate at least some of the chalky effect that drybrushing or even airbrushing straight white over black undercoat can give (and is something a lot of people repeating or reviewing the whole Slap Chop thing seem to miss or dismiss).   Second is specifically using the new-ish Contrast style of acrylic paints (GW Contrast, AP Speed Paints,  or similar), which tend towards being nicely translucent but still fairly vibrant.  Contrasts over white (or off whites like bone/buff/beige) is not quite really new anymore, either.  But combining the two to take advantage of the contrast of a still quick en grisalle with the shading/pooling effect of Contrasts is what makes "Slap Chop" what it is.

It's also specifically advertised as a speed painting technique, not one targeted at higher quality paintjobs.  "Quick but effective" was the original tagline.  Great if you want to get a hundred figures on the table in only a week or two and are okay a paintjob that more suggests a lot of the detail than actually displaying it.  Beyond that, though, it's just some clever marketing of the phenomenon of one niche of the wargame hobby rediscovering more broad artists techniques and it suddenly being the next greatest thing.  I mean, even just zenithal highlighting suddenly became a big deal like 10-15 years ago, in this space.  Or people suddenly "discovering" oil  washes, pin washes for panel lining, and other things military scale modelers have been doing for literal decades.  Or learning about sculptamold type materials for doing terrain like railway fans have been doing for same, and it suddenly being everywhere about 3-4 years ago.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Bloggard on November 19, 2022, 11:39:21 AM
blimey, some very interesting stuff above.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Warren Abox on November 21, 2022, 06:04:37 AM
So glad to find this thread - I don't feel alone anymore!

Not much to add about the state of Wargame YT or the history of this technique, but I can say this: a black undercoat followed by a white drybrush works way better on 15mm figures and smaller than it does on 28mm and larger.

The smaller figures lack detail, which allows for better white-on-black after the drybrush.  The brush direction doesn't matter as often.  And smaller figures really benefit from a higher contrast between dark and light in the undercoat than the bigger figures.  Even then, it's not a cure-all.  It's a great tool, but you have to know when to use it.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 21, 2022, 11:31:57 AM
Ignoring the faddiness and the silly name for a moment, it's a technique that (like so many others) still takes moderate skill, practice, and equipment to make best use of, and which rewards neatness at each stage. Spraying even with rattlecans clearly gives better results because the thin veils of colour that you apply later highlight any roughness from alternative techniques like drybrushing in the underpainting and can spoil the finished look.

Two things to maybe consider further:

1) In the same way that GW sell two different off-whites for use with Contrast (a very light grey for cool colours, and a very light ivory for warm ones), I'm surprised that the current fashion focuses so much on completely desaturated undertones. For example, using something like a warm ivory over an olive green base would provide much better results for anything that might be flesh tones or warmer tans/brown/ivory (including things like skeletons or zombies). Similarly, something like a very pale yellow over a blue-grey would be better for rich reds. You could even force some interesting results if you use contrasting colours, which might be suitable for demons or other unnatural creatures, or the use of sepia tones if you wanted to try something different for say a Wild West game.

2) Without an airbrush, there are still other fast methods for achieving a greyscale that don't use drybrushing. For example, if you apply a gloss white spray, you can then apply either a dark wash (where the gloss finish of the white encourages it to sit more heavily in the recesses), or use oil paint which you then wipe off (which could arguably produce much more contrast than any other method).

All of this also ignores that "speedpainting" techniques (like this one and dipping) could be combined as well. I think more than the dumb name, what most disappoints me about the fad on YT is how little real effort most video makers have put into exploring how to better exploit the technique, and instead they've just gone down the tired route of copying the exact same thing from each other.  :?
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: boneio on November 21, 2022, 11:37:13 AM
Some really nice tips there, thanks. Might try different undertones when I come to paint some 15mm aliens.

Have to agree about drybrushing. I did some 15mm figs by drybrushing white over grey which I'd previously washed in black, and the brush marks are quite evident. I don't mind so much as it sort of looks like texture and the point was to get it done quickly, but at 15mm it's a bit prominent.

instead they've just gone down the tired route of copying the exact same thing from each other.  :?

That's today's YT I'm afraid. It's mostly people algorithm-farming for views and sadly it's spread to our hobby.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Daeothar on November 21, 2022, 12:48:20 PM
A lot of the bad results from drybrushing the undercoat stem from not drybrushing softly enough, or using the right brushes.

Also; try wiping off the brush on a solid surface, rather than a piece of tissue paper. The paper will suck all of the moisture out of the brush, resulting in noticeably more chalky results. When wiping on a surface such as a pice of laminate floor or a glazed tile, the paint will be taken off the brush (albeit not as fast), but the remaining paint will retain its moisture, and thus be less chalky as a result.

When done well, drybrushing can be as subtle as airbrushing. It just takes quite a bit longer to do right. However; drybrushing can do things that airbrushing can't do, and the reason why you'd want to drybrush when sla ::) using this technique is that the lower/darker drybrushes cover the entire miniature, and only the lightest one(s) is done as a zenithal.

That means that the transitions from black to white are smoother, especially in the recesses. Also any possible streaking (read: errors in drybrushing) are less jarring when working with several progressively lighter layers, since no black shines through, but rather the previous, only slightly darker layer.

And yes; this does take a lot of the speed out of the process, defeating some of the purpose, but overall I think it'll still be faster, and certainly easier, than traditional layering and highlighting/shading...

As an aside; I don't really mind the whole YT fads, as long as you see them for what they are. In fact I find it sometimes informative to hear several people covering the subject, and them all being at the top of the feed is useful. Also; I cherrypick those youtubers I find OK, and veer widely around those I find annoying. Seems to do the trick without getting my blood up... ;)
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 21, 2022, 02:17:06 PM
@ Daeothar:

It's true that soft drybrushing can be done without too much texture build-up, and similarly poor spraying technique/conditions can also result in texture build-up. If the texture is fine and uniform, a coat of clear varnish can often be used afterwards to "smooth" out much of this texture without losing too much detail at all.

Ultimately though, every extra step, or each time you slow down to achieve greater precision and/or a finer finish, detracts from the speed benefit of the technique in the first place. In other words, all speedpainting techniques rely on cutting corners somewhere along the line, and how much you cut determines the speed and relative quality of the output.

I'd write more about my YT thoughts, but I fear it will just come across as broadly negative; I don't want to detract from what's otherwise a good conversation on LAF, and I sense many people here share my feelings anyway.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: nozza_uk on December 09, 2022, 11:43:12 AM
I had a go at slap-chopping.

This is a scorpion kit that needed some TLC and had been languishing in my lead pile for years. Probably took an hour to do and most of that was waiting for the paint to dry.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjiHo_tXEAAV3kS?format=jpg&name=large)

Not one for the purists, but I'm happy with how it looks. Not sure I'd apply the technique to some of my other miniatures though.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Daeothar on December 09, 2022, 12:06:35 PM
Nice work  :)

Good to see some more non-Youtube results before actually committing to the deed...  :D
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 09, 2022, 01:33:10 PM
@ nozza_uk:

I'm curious to know your opinion; if you had just sprayed/painted the model red, and then put a darker wash over the top, would it have given you the same result do you think?
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: nozza_uk on December 09, 2022, 03:16:03 PM
@ nozza_uk:

I'm curious to know your opinion; if you had just sprayed/painted the model red, and then put a darker wash over the top, would it have given you the same result do you think?

It might give you a more even finish.  Looking at my picture, I can spot the areas where my dry brushing (with white) was too heavy handed.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: syrinx0 on December 10, 2022, 04:51:17 AM
I heard the term the other day but had no idea what it was referring too.  Thanks for the educational moment.  lol
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: beefcake on December 10, 2022, 08:11:26 AM
I need to start slap chopping. I think I might use it to paint my ogre army that is requiring some work (as in I haven't started and it's really daunting).
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: pauld on December 10, 2022, 10:01:55 AM
I've tried but been unhappy with the results.

Prime black and dry brush grey and white. Figs either look dirty or anemic - so it's back to traditional methods. 

No real time saving (for me) either.

Bleeding speedpaints (an apt phrase) haven't helped either.

Perhaps it reaffirms the old dog new tricks aphorism.






Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 10, 2022, 04:05:36 PM
@ nozza_uk:

I'm curious to know your opinion; if you had just sprayed/painted the model red, and then put a darker wash over the top, would it have given you the same result do you think?
It might give you a more even finish.  Looking at my picture, I can spot the areas where my dry brushing (with white) was too heavy handed.

Hmm, do you think if you'd added a layer of brush-on varnish before the colour (to smooth out the drybrushing a bit) it might have helped?

Or, would colour prime + contrast/wash + light drybrush highlight have still produced a similar or better result? I guess I'm curious really to see if any actual time/effort is in fact saved on quick paintjobs... I suspect not, but I'll defer to others' experience.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Cait Sidhe on December 10, 2022, 05:21:45 PM
I've done some models using the method, mostly cause I'm super slow at painting and also to justify the contrast paints I bought and found didn't work as miraculously as advertised. :P

I think the results do tend toward less saturated and grimdark styles adding to Pauld's comment but that can work depending on what you're painting. These were the first ones I did (and printed on an FDM printer so layer lines aren't doing me any favours) and I quite like the results, I might redo them now I have a resin printer.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/977301663314509824/1022943408270098482/unknown.png?width=231&height=534)(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/977301663314509824/1036771050421227651/unknown.png?width=848&height=328)

I have done a couple of resin prints as well, also pretty desaturated in terms of skin tones.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/977301663314509824/1046474883388952676/image.png)

Some of the contrast paints can be pretty saturated and bright though, I haven't tried speed paints or Vallejo's new range so don't know how their colours stack up.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: Cacique Caribe on December 13, 2022, 06:48:01 AM
Ive been using the technique for decades.  Now I can’t imagine doing anything else.

Dan
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping?
Post by: nozza_uk on December 15, 2022, 08:36:19 AM
Just when you thought the names couldn't get any worse - there's now Suck Cut!  ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xqfyrpqXi4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xqfyrpqXi4)
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping? - Now includes Suck Cut (yes, really!)
Post by: Daeothar on December 15, 2022, 10:17:05 AM
To be clear though; Ninjon coined the term as a joke to go against the trend and let people know that you should paint as you want and not according to Youtube fads just because it's the fashionable thing to do.

Although him also being on Youtube and using the term as clickbait might be explained otherwise...  ::)
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping? - Now includes Suck Cut (yes, really!)
Post by: syrinx0 on December 15, 2022, 10:52:36 PM
Ninjon sense of humor and sarcasm is usually front and center in his work but he likes a good clickbait title as much as any other youtuber.  As he and others have pointed out, using premixed ink/washes like contrast paint and AP speed paints is probably the only slightly new wrinkle here at least for their mostly GW 40K painting audience.  It is interesting to see train building or oil painting techniques and how they are adapted to miniature painting.  What's new might not really be new but it's good to see it propagated to a new audience.
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping? - Now includes Suck Cut (yes, really!)
Post by: NotifyGrout on December 19, 2022, 05:16:43 PM
At  least Ninjon is admitting that it's clickbait. A lot of the best minis Youtubers do; an unfortunate side-effect of algorithms run by machine is that clickbait/keyword-laden titles get the most views.

It's similar to how a lot of eBay sales have stuff in the title that's only vaguely related in order to maximize search result views- tons of non-GW futuristic minis out there, and how many of them have "warhammer," "40k," "GW," and even "rogue trader" in the auction title?
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping? - Now includes Suck Cut (yes, really!)
Post by: Vanvlak on December 19, 2022, 05:23:19 PM
On the upside, I have no viewed a handful of Ninjon's Slay the Gray videos, and these have made me enjoy some painting this weekend, trying variations on my cartoon brush technique  ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping? - Now includes Suck Cut (yes, really!)
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 04, 2023, 03:17:45 PM
I have a mountain to paint and am very very rusty, so I may have to give the ole Slap Chop a try  :D
Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping? - Now includes Suck Cut (yes, really!)
Post by: supervike on January 04, 2023, 03:50:50 PM
I've got a lot of Mantic terrain sets that this technique works perfectly for.  It's helped me get through a lot of them in a short period of time.

I've tried it just a few times on miniatures and there are some things I like about it.  I dislike how it makes the skin and face look....I'd much rather do that my old way.  I'll still do some more experimenting with it.

On the subject of the 'you tube' personalities...The clickbait titles are hard enough to deal with, but it's when they put themselves in the thumbnail shot, pulling a face to emphasis their 'feelings'  Oh man, I just cannot stand it.

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.  Sometimes it's a confused or sad look.  Sometimes a dorky grin, or some other antic.  I'm sure I'm missing out on some good information, but I won't even click on the darn thing.

Title: Re: Are you Slap-Chopping? - Now includes Suck Cut (yes, really!)
Post by: Daeothar on January 04, 2023, 04:01:52 PM
Meh, I suppose that's how the entire Youtube thing now works, and I accept it for what it is.

A pet niggle of mine is when the thumbnail is misleading.

Case in point: this one woman who won't miss any opportunity to use her... assets in her thumbnails. Fair play I suppose, but they're not as prominent (or shopped) in the actual clip, which is mildly disappointing  lol