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Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Hobgoblin on November 30, 2022, 09:49:23 PM
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I was surveying the contents of various 1/72 storage boxes yesterday and realised that I've got more than enough figures to put together a 1/72 army of dark elves (or 'Twilight Kin') for Kings of War and the like. Dark Alliance and Caesar elves will make up most of the infantry, I've got some good character figures from Elheim, and there are plenty of demons and gargoyles that can be roped in for the special units. And Dark Alliance Amazons will serve as witch-elves with a suitable paint scheme (I don't think anyone will notice the ears!).
But cavalry is another matter. I do have some of the very old Citadel cold-one riders, which have very small dark-elf riders - sufficiently small to use with 1/72 figures without much problem. But I've only got two or three, I think, and their mounts may end up being requisitioned by Slann and lizardmen; I have more of those riders, which are destined for a Salamander army.
Now, the most obvious choice for dark-elf cavalry would be the Dark Alliance modern mounted Amazons (http://plasticsoldierreview.com/ShowFeature.aspx?id=175); there are a couple of velociraptor mounts in each box, so two boxes would permit a cavalry unit with a leader using a black unicorn or albino lion as a mount. I could use each box as is, but I'd rather have the units looking less zoo-like if I can help it!
But it occurred to me that there may well be alternatives out there - and that they might be known to the LAF hive mind. At a pinch, I might be able to use Dark Alliance riders on mounts from another company. I'm not necessarily wedded to lizards as mounts, but some sort of evil beastie would be nice (demonic horses? giant insects?). Ideally, I'm after evil-looking beasties with 1/72 or slender "true 25mm" riders.
Any ideas much appreciated!
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Tamiya velociraptors might be one idea - though I'm a little uncertain as to the scale:
(https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/60105/top.jpg)
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Maybe some small toy dinosaurs like these or similar:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09NBQZQVB?tag=track-ect-uk-794697-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&ascsubtag=ecSEP3mdq9zlb46tzm2 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09NBQZQVB?tag=track-ect-uk-794697-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&ascsubtag=ecSEP3mdq9zlb46tzm2)
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Thanks! Yes, that's certainly an avenue for exploration, and I might find a use for such creatures in the Salamander/lizardman army too.
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Pendraken has these 15mm dinosaurs https://www.pendraken.co.uk/n15fan-l4-nlizard-rider-with-spear-5184-p.asp
30mm tall, 53mm nose to tail, 20mm to ‘saddle’
Magister Militum also have a wide range of dinosaurs in their 10mm range
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The Reaper Bones ‘raptor pack’ would probably work and they’re not too ridiculously priced.
https://www.reapermini.com/search/raptor/latest/44081
As mentioned above, pound shop dinosaurs might also do the job (and might have a few types that could be used as trained beasts, if dark elves field those).
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Pendraken has these 15mm dinosaurs https://www.pendraken.co.uk/n15fan-l4-nlizard-rider-with-spear-5184-p.asp
Thanks! Hmm - the goofiness of those one-eyed beasts might rule them out for dark elves - but then again, they might be made to look truly horrific with the right paint job! And they'd certainly work in the Salamander army. I have a few of the spearmen from that range, which I was planning to use with other types as lesser lizard men.
Magister Militum also have a wide range of dinosaurs in their 10mm range
That's a good call! We have a few of those in the house, and I've been urging my son to paint them up so that we can intersperse them with classic cold-one riders for the Salamander army. The prices seem to have gone through the roof, though - I see the Spinosaurus is selling for £15 (!) at the moment. We have that one, and it's not much bigger than a 28mm horse. Perhaps it's the price of the lead-free metal; most other Magister Militum stuff continues to be very competitively priced.
Nevertheless, if we base them individually, they'd work to bulk out cold ones whether those had elven or cold-blooded riders.
The Reaper Bones ‘raptor pack’ would probably work and they’re not too ridiculously priced.
https://www.reapermini.com/search/raptor/latest/44081
As mentioned above, pound shop dinosaurs might also do the job (and might have a few types that could be used as trained beasts, if dark elves field those).
Ooh, that's another great call! I'll need to do a careful comparison of those and the Tamiya ones for scale.
And yes, trained beasts interspersed with actual cavalry seems a good way to go. If nothing else, that would be a very easy way to bulk out the DA mounted Amazons.
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Another angle I've been looking at for this is 'conversion by paint' of Ottoman sipahi and other Renaissance cavalry. I reckon these guys (http://plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2479)(for example) would make pretty good dark elves - I'm doing mine with blue-grey skin and white hair.
The slightly unnatural horses that some 1/72 sets have could be used to advantage (undead/demonic horses). And anyone who objects to moustachioed elves clearly hasn't read enough Poul Anderson! ;)
I'm quite keen generally on 'conversion by paint' for fantasy gaming at this scale - it's in the noble tradition of Gygax et al, who used 1/72 Romans as orcs with 25mm humans, if I recall correctly: Chainmail has a section on such practices.
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Or even Napoleonic dragoons or cuirassiers. The higher technology level would work pretty well, I reckon, as would the tall crested helmets. Hmm ...
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Hi Hobgoblin. I was thinking about dark elves in 1/72 as well. I completely agree with regard to the possibility of Dark Alliance Modern Amazons as witch elves - painted up in appropriate colours, they will fit right in. I haven't given much thought to cold one cavalry so far. Battle Valor 15mm Scalians have cold one-style lizards, but they also have lizardman rider legs modelled on, so might not work with dark elves.
Have you given any thought to how to acquire or convert dark elf crossbowmen? I am struggling with ideas here.
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if you could somehow get this old board game: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1081/die-schlacht-der-dinosaurier
All minis inside are almost exactly 1/72 scale :)
Maybe you can find some at ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133809623331
(https://rezensionen.nandurion.de/files/2020/10/SdD_Minis-1024x662.jpg)
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Good call on Battle Valor - I have quite a lot of their 'Orcians', which are perfect for Uruk-hai in 1/72!
I hadn't really thought about crossbowmen; the KoW rules have archers rather than crossbowmen, so I'm just going to be using Dark Alliance and Caesar bow-elves.
If I were going to use crossbows, I might look at the Burgundian crossbowmen from Red Box (http://plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2661), as they at least have slim builds and relatively fancy clothing and armour:
(http://plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/RED72124a.jpg)
I recently acquired some metal 1/72 Wars of the Roses armoured crossbowmen from Tumbling Dice; quite a few of those have sallets or visored bascinets, so they look quite sinister and not at all 'peasanty'. That might be another option; the ones with kettle hats could be green-stuffed to look a bit more pointy and elfin, I suppose!
Tumbling Dice also do liveried crossbowmen; I suspect they'd look less sinister, but there might be opportunities for conversion.
Otherwise, I'd look out for the 'poncier' crossbowmen in late-medieval and Renaissance 1/72 sets and try to up their elvishness through emphasising the costuming (dark greens, purples, black and silver, etc.).
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if you could somehow get this old board game: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1081/die-schlacht-der-dinosaurier
All minis inside are almost exactly 1/72 scale :)
Maybe you can find some at ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133809623331
(https://rezensionen.nandurion.de/files/2020/10/SdD_Minis-1024x662.jpg)
Wow - that looks amazing!
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The old Ral Partha raptors and velociraptors on this page:
https://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/animals-and-prehistoric-c-59/
Might work as they are more 25mm than 28.
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The old Ral Partha raptors and velociraptors on this page:
https://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/animals-and-prehistoric-c-59/
Might work as they are more 25mm than 28.
Yes, those look like they might work very well - thanks!
I took a lunchtime cycle to the local model shop and emerged with some Italieri French dragoons and some Tamiya velociraptors. The velociraptors are quite big (1:35) - a bit longer and lankier than the original cold ones, I think, so I'm wondering whether they might work as "cronebound fiends" on 50 x 50 bases while the dragoons on demonised horses could make up the "cronebound abyssal horsemen" in KoW. The profiles for each would seem to fit nicely. There are sufficient riders in the dragoon box to give me a full KoW regiment of horsemen and a horde of fiends. Now to dream up some wild colour schemes for the horses!
I'm quite tickled with the look of the dragoons as dark elves - the fancy, nineteenth-century uniforms look suitably decadent set against medieval comparators, but the sabres and tall, plumed helmets mean that they're not too incongruous.
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You might find some nice creature types in the Twilight miniatures range.
http://shop.worldoftwilight.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_7
http://shop.worldoftwilight.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_32
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You might find some nice creature types in the Twilight miniatures range.
http://shop.worldoftwilight.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_7
http://shop.worldoftwilight.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_32
Another great call - many thanks!
Here are the fruits of my lunchtime foray. These fellows would work on either 50 x 25 or 50 x 50, but I'll probably go with the latter so that they can occupy the "large cavalry" role in KoW. It also means that they'll be separately based, should I want to use them in skirmish games.
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They look very promising! I especially like the pose with the raptor looking back, it gives the impression that it’s considering taking a snap at the rider (one of the drawbacks of using large carnivores as cavalry mounts).
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They are great!
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Thanks!
The big challenge now is to work out whether to paint the dragoon-elves in uniform or to take a more 'medieval' approach and have them in individualised costume. I'm leaning towards the latter, but we'll see how a test piece goes tonight!
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When I did some goblins on raptors that I already had I painted the goblins as individuals but their "heraldry" colours were drawn from the hide colours on their mounts.
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=134442.msg1718280#msg1718280 (https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=134442.msg1718280#msg1718280)
(https://i.imgur.com/Oi6vyQY.jpg)
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That's a great idea - I may well steal it! I'd completely forgotten about that thread. Which manufacturer are those raptors from? They're very similar to the Tamiya ones, though a lot smaller, so I might well get some to supplement the big ones and allow different sorts of cavalry.
On that note, one thought I had with the Tamiya beasts is that I could base some on 50 x 50 and a couple on 50 x 25 - allowing for them to be fielded as either "large cavalry" or "cavalry" in KoW, etc, merely by changing the central figure (or by having them led by a genuine cold-one rider).
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The raptors were bought a long long time ago from the Honourable Lead Boiler Suit Company. They are still available (I think)
https://www.hlbs-redux.co.uk/28mm-dinosaurs-prehistoric-animals--monsters.html#/ (https://www.hlbs-redux.co.uk/28mm-dinosaurs-prehistoric-animals--monsters.html#/)
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Aha - thanks! That looks a great source of potential saurian steeds!
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I think the best you can do is getting STL files for 3d printing and then scale down to 1/72. I just did that with Blood Letters and they turned out great!
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I guess you are all set but for others I will second MysteryMachine's suggestion of Battle Valor Scalians. I have some orcians and am using them as 1970s Ral Partha/Minifigs "25mm" scale and I would not have them any larger. For comparison, this pic shows them alongside other 15mm figures (google images source locator failed to find source).
- The scalians also look massive but you might have to do some triangulation viewing pics to get a sense.
- The humans are more 18mm scale and would not work for 1/72
- Pics you find online are usually on 40mm bases which you can use in a paint program as a ruler.
- The orcian wolves might be a tad larger than the scalian mounts but they call for at least a 20x40mm base and look fine on 20mmx50mm.
- There is also a different Elvian reptilian mount if you prefer that.
- Be aware the orcian cavalry is cast with the legs on the mount, and I suspect that is done across the board, but you can order most/all mounts separately.
- The website is down but pics are on FB and their ebay store.
Edit: Scalian "Chameliex" listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/164843617719?hash=item266171fdb7:g:K-8AAOSw-QdgjZuK
Looks like the elvian "sentian" is not in the store but you could ask them.
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Very interesting idea with the use of dragoons - maybe add redbox elves heads here and there?
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Those Deagoon Elves look very promising. Keen to see the end result, here. If you have some leftovers to chop up, it might work out well to do some headswaps. Personally, I’d love something more ancient on them.
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As ever on LAF, there are some fantastic ideas being shared here!
Hobgoblin, many thanks for the suggestion of the Red Box Osman Sipahi - I can see these making great Dark Elf cavalry with minimal, if any conversion required.
Dadlamassu, the dinosaurs from HLBS look amazing. I think the Deinonychus in particular look like they might be a good match for the raptors from the Dark Alliance Mounted Modern Amazons set, so I have taken a punt on picking some of these up: https://www.hlbs-redux.co.uk/store/p64/Deinonychus_x2_-DI54.html#/
Spooktalker - thanks for the links to the Battle Valor ebay site and the riderless Chameliex models. These look great, but I'm based in the UK, and it would get too expensive with delivery and import costs. A great option for US folks though.
Finally, Hobgoblin, thanks for drawing my attention to the existance of Tumbling Dice and their 1/72 - 25mm lead options. These look like a great way to add some extra variety to plastic sets. It's a pity that the vendor doesn't have pictures on his website, but I found that Paul, of Paul's Bods, has taken the time and trouble to put up a lot of photos and reviews of the Tumbling Dice 1/72 range, which is well worth a look if you want to see what the TD miniatures look like, including in comparison to the various plastic ranges:
https://paulsbods.blogspot.com/search/label/Tumbling%20Dice
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Hobgoblin, many thanks for the suggestion of the Red Box Osman Sipahi - I can see these making great Dark Elf cavalry with minimal, if any conversion required.
Yes, I may well pick some up from Hannants or wherever - I went with the Italieri dragoons purely on the basis of instant gratification! But I quite like the idea of a very heavily cavalry-oriented dark-elf force, so may well try building a variety of distinctive-looking units.
Spooktalker - thanks for the links to the Battle Valor ebay site and the riderless Chameliex models. These look great, but I'm based in the UK, and it would get too expensive with delivery and import costs. A great option for US folks though.
Dragonfrog Games has them in the UK - although only in full units with riders. But they're very reasonably priced at under £20 (https://www.dragonfroggames.co.uk/page/scalians) for 16 fairly chunky cavalry figures.
Finally, Hobgoblin, thanks for drawing my attention to the existence of Tumbling Dice and their 1/72 - 25mm lead options. These look like a great way to add some extra variety to plastic sets. It's a pity that the vendor doesn't have pictures on his website, but I found that Paul, of Paul's Bods, has taken the time and trouble to put up a lot of photos and reviews of the Tumbling Dice 1/72 range, which is well worth a look if you want to see what the TD miniatures look like, including in comparison to the various plastic ranges:
https://paulsbods.blogspot.com/search/label/Tumbling%20Dice
Yes, Paul's blog is invaluable for Tumbling Dice. You can see what I mean about the crossbowmen here (https://paulsbods.blogspot.com/2020/11/armoured-crossbowmen-tumbling-dice.html)- I reckon they could be dark-elfed up with an appropriate paintjob. They're a bit stocky, maybe, but the sallets and full helms make them quite sinister-looking, and 1/72 is a forgiving scale!
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The Deinonychus models from HLBS arrived swiftly and well-packed - great service from Richard at HLBS.
The models are an excellent match in terms of scale for the raptors from the Dark Alliance Mounted Amazons set. I've tried to capture this in a picture.
I also picked up some really nice velociraptors (DI01) which work very well with 1/72 scale. It's really helpful that HLBS have included pictures with a 28mm figure for scale.
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Wow - those work really well together! Is the top one HLBS and the bottom D101? Or are both of those HLBS?
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Brillant! I can see these also as monstrous mounts for 15mm models. Great find 👍!
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Hi Hobgoblin - the two metal dinosaurs pictured are the HLBS Deinonychus models, which come in a set of two:
https://www.hlbs-redux.co.uk/store/p64/Deinonychus_x2_-DI54.html#/
The velolicraptors I mentioned are also from HLBS - I thought I would suggest them as they are a very good size for smaller (yet still significant) lizardy creatures in 1/72 scale:
https://www.hlbs-redux.co.uk/store/p51/Velociraptors_x3_-DI01.html#/
I also had a delivery from Tumbling Dice (some Normans, Frankish Crusader and Wars of the Roses figures) and am very pleased with the quality and sculpting of these:
https://tumblingdiceuk.com/collections/25mm-1-72-c1066-dark-ages-normans
https://tumblingdiceuk.com/collections/25mm-1-72-c1250-the-crusades-frankish-crusaders
https://tumblingdiceuk.com/collections/25mm-1-72-c1480-renaissance-wars-of-the-roses
I'll try and post some pictures at some stage.
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oh, i really like those HLBS dinosaurs, didnt know them until now!
Also, pictures of those Tumbling Dice chaps are always welcome :)
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Hi Hobgoblin - the two metal dinosaurs pictured are the HLBS Deinonychus models, which come in a set of two:
https://www.hlbs-redux.co.uk/store/p64/Deinonychus_x2_-DI54.html#/
The velolicraptors I mentioned are also from HLBS - I thought I would suggest them as they are a very good size for smaller (yet still significant) lizardy creatures in 1/72 scale:
https://www.hlbs-redux.co.uk/store/p51/Velociraptors_x3_-DI01.html#/
I also had a delivery from Tumbling Dice (some Normans, Frankish Crusader and Wars of the Roses figures) and am very pleased with the quality and sculpting of these:
https://tumblingdiceuk.com/collections/25mm-1-72-c1066-dark-ages-normans
https://tumblingdiceuk.com/collections/25mm-1-72-c1250-the-crusades-frankish-crusaders
https://tumblingdiceuk.com/collections/25mm-1-72-c1480-renaissance-wars-of-the-roses
I'll try and post some pictures at some stage.
Thanks very much for this! (Sorry - meant to post at the time!)
I'll be having a close look at the HLBS dinosaurs shortly. Quite apart from the cold-one question, I've been putting together units of lizardmen to act as salamanders in KoW. It's occurred to me that dinosaurs make great 'unit fillers' for both cavalry (i.e. cold ones) and infantry units (the salamanders are 'heavy infantry', and so on 25mm squares).
As my lizardmen are so disparate, ranging from the sinuous Tom Meier 'lesser troglodytes' to the burly Essex nudists to the various types of Rafm reptiliad, I've given up on organising them into like-with-like units and am instead going to go for an utterly motley look in both physiques and colour schemes. I reckon a few dinosaurs will be great for beefing out the ranks and - in the case of the infantry - keeping the units more coherent on the tabletop (the longer bases should make them easier to move).
I might even base some of the Tom Meier 'greater troglodytes' on 25 x 50s to act as unit fillers in the same way, as I've got some of the great Trish Carden C24 trogs to act as 'tyrants'/kroxigors/troglodytes. But that might be a step too far!