Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Model and Miniature Photography => Topic started by: Kikuchiyo on December 20, 2022, 11:43:41 AM
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I'm a gamer first but I would like to try and get some decent shots of my work.
Rough handling needs protection, but I assumed mat varnish meant mat. The figures look mat in daylight, but lamp light gives them a glossy look, what am I doing wrong?
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Could be a number of things going on. For example:
Direct lighting from an unscreened LED lamp can give some reflective shine off of smooth Matt surfaces.
Poor mixing can result in a varnish layer that is more of the carrier medium than the matting elements.
Different varnishes can interact in different ways - be they water based or solvent - depending on the material the mini is made from and the type of paints used.
I’m sure others can come up with more variables, these are just ones I’ve experienced.
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Thanks, to give some context metal miniatures and vallejo paint and citadel wash
The vanish I used was Vallejo Premium Matt Varnish applied with a brush, I have had the pot for a while
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More information please:
[1] Does the whole miniature look shiny under lamp light?
[2] If no are only certain colours shiny and if so which ones?
I will comment further after your reply but in my experience I get the opposite when my varnish fails ever so slightly: artificial light makes the figure look flat whilst in daylight they have a slight sheen. This because daylight is usually stronger and directional indoors.
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I don't know why it has become so difficult to find really good MATT matt varnish these days - I feel like it used to be a lot easier a few years back, but then for some reason they all started to get satin instead of matt.
I used Testors for ages, because although not cheap, it was the mattest matt varnish I had found, but it is constantly being taken off the market, then going back on, then being taken back off. I have no idea what's happened to it since, I got bored of bulk-buying during the 3 days it was ever available in the calendar year.
Now I use Winsor and Newton professional range matt varnish, which is as matt as I could hope for. It's not cheap again, so I use a cheaper varnish for a quick once-over, then finish off with the W&N, because I always double-layer for extra protection.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00SO8MXYG/ref=twister_B073XR1G61?_encoding=UTF8&th=1
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It's probably more satin than gloss, particularly bad in the wash areas and lighter colours
I got so frustraighted with them I ended up repainting, just want to avoid the issue in future
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For years I struggled to get a reliable & reproducible matt finish on my 15 mm figures. The main problem was on reds, some blues, and bright greens. They always seemed to dry satin when all the other colours on the same figure dried matt!
The short version is that the affected paints have porous finishes and the surface layer tends to absorb any varnish; it doesn't stay on the surface as it should and repeated coats don't help either.
The solution lays with the paint not the varnish: add talc to the paint. The platelets in the talc dry flat and seal the surface allowing the varnish to coat the surface as it should. Talc also disrupts the paint surface resulting in a matt finish before the varnish had been applied. Very little talc is required.
Another trick is to add craft paint of a similar shade to your "quality" paint as the craft paint contains lots of talc as filler: you get the best of both worlds.
Links for more:
https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2021/09/cheap-paint-nearly-one-year-on.html
https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2019/09/painters-miscellany-1.html & links therein
https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2014/05/painting-tips-5c-matting-acrylics-with.html
https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/p/articles.html & the link to my "The Unvarnished Truth" article (pdf)
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Do you spray or paint on your varnish?
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Do you spray or paint on your varnish?
Paint. Always.
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Another Windsor and Newton Professional recommendation - it’s easily the best matt I’ve used in 50+ years. It gives a matt finish. Nothing else I’ve used does that.
Doug
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Thanks for the tips will look into W&N but I'll want one I can paint on rather than spray, I see there is more than one type though?
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I still have some Testors but their quality control is terrible or their formula changed - I now only use that for terrain. When spraying miniatures I also use Windsor and Newton Professional. On the rare occasions I paint I use a blend of Tamiya Matt Base with Windsor & Newton Galeria matt varnish. The matt base and Galeria matt were purchased for one of my kids high school art projects and will probably last my entire lifetime.
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Testor's is now owned by Rustoleum, the formula has changed. It's still flatter than many though.
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I’ve tried various varnishes including the little Humbrol tins, Vallejo, Galleria, all of which I had problems with for one reason or another. I’ve finally - for now at least! - settled on a W&N Artists Matt that is solvent* based. It does need stirring and shaking before use.
*See image re hazards. The drying time refers to oils. My acrylic painted minis usually wait 24 hours before being varnished, often spending a few hours in the airing cupboard to accelerate the process.
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Plus one on the W and N varnish. It’s reliable when brushed. It is very similar in smell and consistency to Humbrol Mattcote.
Something I do differently to most is to gloss varnish first with an acrylic varnish such as Johnson’s Klear. This seals the figure and gives the matt varnish an even surface to work on. It also has the advantage that gloss is harder wearing than matt and protects the figure better during handling. If the figure starts to go shiny in use it can then be matt varnished again before the paint coat is degraded.
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I use PlastiKote spray from Hobbycraft, also avaialble on Amazon on all figures. THe can illustrated below has a very soft spray action that does not send plastic figures flying everywhere. I also finish off flags, standards, important or display figures with brush on Windsor & Newton matt varnish.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/714LPQiPsGL.__AC_SX300_SY300_QL70_ML2_.jpg)
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Plus one on the W and N varnish. It’s reliable when brushed. It is very similar in smell and consistency to Humbrol Mattcote.
Something I do differently to most is to gloss varnish first with an acrylic varnish such as Johnson’s Klear. This seals the figure and gives the matt varnish an even surface to work on. It also has the advantage that gloss is harder wearing than matt and protects the figure better during handling. If the figure starts to go shiny in use it can then be matt varnished again before the paint coat is degraded.
If that's your experience di you think my glossy minis could ve rescued with another layer of W&B to rescue them?
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If that's your experience di you think my glossy minis could ve rescued with another layer of W&B to rescue them?
Nothing to lose by trying it. Just make sure you stir and mix the varnish well before use. It does settle out a bit. Use a soft brush, and then clean the brush with white spirit afterwards.
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Thanks everyone for the advice, will look at this after Christmas
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Having had issues with both W&N and Daler Rowney recently, I tried AK Interactive Ultra Matte.
Its fantastic!!
It comes as a very thin liquid, designed for air brushing with the addition of thinners, but can be used straight from the bottle with a brush.
2 thin coats and I get the mattest finish I have ever had. No frosting or chalky bits and although it needs a good shake, its nothing like the shake the W&N or DR needs - 15 seconds or so seems to be perfectly adequate.
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Picked up some w&n, so far so good
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Having had issues with both W&N and Daler Rowney recently, I tried AK Interactive Ultra Matte.
Its fantastic!!
It comes as a very thin liquid, designed for air brushing with the addition of thinners, but can be used straight from the bottle with a brush.
2 thin coats and I get the mattest finish I have ever had. No frosting or chalky bits and although it needs a good shake, its nothing like the shake the W&N or DR needs - 15 seconds or so seems to be perfectly adequate.
Ultra Matte +1 works well
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I'm sold on W&N, it might go off at some point but so far it's rescued dozens of shiny minis
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I'm sold on W&N, it might go off at some point but so far it's rescued dozens of shiny minis
I’m glad to hear it :) Did you go for a brush on or the spray?
Doug
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I went with the brush
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You probably have not mixed the varnish sufficiently. The "gloss" part (or mediums with a glossy base) of the matte varnish floats, and you may even be painting only with gloss if you have bought a matte varnish. The problem is always the same, it is not well mixed.
Another option is that the product is simply of very poor quality and is not suitable for painting miniatures. Think that the matte standard is not the same in all sectors. In the craft world, matte has some gloss to it. If you have bought a craft varnish, it may have a gloss.