Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: FifteensAway on February 13, 2023, 05:00:18 PM
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What would be the three most common opponents of the Early Imperial Romans (no civil wars, please)?
Thinking to acquire a smallish collection of EIR figures (not skirmish) and trying to decide most appropriate opponent.
Thanks!
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Not much enemy left in Western Europe by the early Imperial times, Gaul rebels, Brits on the isles and raiding Germanic tribes maybe.
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Germani, Dacians, Britons for the West.
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Germani, Dacians, Britons for the West.
Dacia is more on the eastern side of Europe, if that counts then you can also add Sarmatians and Scythians.
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My copy of DBA lists 26 enemies. :o
Most might be considered 'Eastern' enemies though EIR power base was...ROME.
No East West split of power, yet. ;)
That said, enemies that you could consider the province of the 'West' include:-
Early Germanic,
British,
Scots-Irish,
Caledonian and
Numidian.
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FifteensAway, I think most "European" enemies have been mentioned. One that hasn't is the so-called Batavian Revolt. If however you went back in time to the Marian/Caesarian Romans you could have Spanish, Gallic, Germanic, Slave Revolt in Europe plus Mithraditic, Parthian, Egyptian and Numidian in Africa and the Middle East.
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I think Ethelred has it right that the tribes of Britannia, Germania and Dacia are the three main enemies of the western based Roman army at this time. In the era of around 40-120 AD with the classic legionary look anyway. These tribes are are all quite similar barbarians in game terms but there are some differences and they look quite distinct for painting/modelling. Dacia is maybe a bit Eastern but western troops did take part and there isn't really another western enemy worth counting.
Britannia is probably the most iconic theater for Early Imperial Romans. The British chariots and slingers can make them quite distinctive and the Hill forts make a good objective or backdrop. The Dacian falx gives them a USP, plus you could maybe add some Sarmatian allies for heavy cavalry. The Germans are said to be good swimmers, so maybe water could be their thing. Gnaeus Domitius Corbulo fought the tribes of what is today the Netherlands and northwestern Germany. This was a joint land and naval campaign that could give some interesting games in marshy or coastal regions. Attacking villages on stilts with naval support would be a bit different.
The Batavian Revolt is in that area too and while it is a bit 'civil war' given Civilis' had lots of rebel auxiliaries they actually win some battles and he started with just the tribal troops. The regulars were away fighting in Italy. Also the Batavians have nice tie ins with campaigns in Britannia, as the Batavian Auxiliaries fought there before and afterwards.
If you do want to go down the civil war path later the Year of the Four Emperors is about as good as it gets. Your barbarians can then be used as allied irregulars. Vitellius took lots of Germanic Tribal irregulars with him to Italy and I vaguely recall there were some British irregulars too, although that might be in Dacia.
What rules are you planning to use?
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Leaving aside anything Eastern like the Dacians, your biggest 'Western' campaigns for your EIR would probably be the Claudian invasion of Britain, the subsequent revolt of the Iceni against Roman rule, Agricola's campaigns in present day Scotland and the Batavian Revolt in the modern day Netherlands.
All interesting with a variety of challenges and the latter one gives you the chance to build a small Roman riverine force, if you fancy. You can recycle your Britons for Boudica's revolt and for Caledonian opposition.
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Germans were the main menace, and for me the main antagonist for the western empire. The claudian invasion of England and conquering of England, Wales and parts of lowland Scotland which in some cases (Wales) were not complete until the late 70s and northern Scotland were never conquered leaving the Caledoni tribes north of the walls.
Then the revolutions of the celts in England in 60/61 and the Gauls uprising in 12-13BC, 9AD, 21AD in different parts of Gaul, then again in 60AD in Brittany in support of Boudiccas' revolt.
The Dacians in the North east being the main focus, followed by the horse tribes of the Sarmation/Alan horse tribes .
Cheers
Matt
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Celts are still there.
There was a major campaign in the alps in 16 bc.
One of the largest Roman victory monuments was built in La Turbie to celebrate this victory.
Over 40 Celtic and Ligurian tribes are mentioned.
There was also an arch built at Susa, Italy soon after in 14 bc which may have been to commemorate an alliance with a local Celto-Ligurian ruler. Whatever its purpose it's thought to show the first representation of segmentata. If so then the campaign in the alps could have seen troops in this armour.
There would also be Gauls in auxiliary units, both infantry and cavalry. The ones at the time of Augustus would most likely look like the Celts Caesar fought against. Later rebellions in the 1st century ad would likely be showing more Romanised appearance. While more civil war, the uprising of Julius Sacrovir is interesting in having the local Gallic gladiator type of the crupellarius - a Roman legionary type in full plate and a helmet that looked very similar to the knight's helm of the early 13th century. The Roman response was to fight these guys with their dolabra - pick axes.
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Cadbren, indeed. That's why I suggested looking at "earlier" Legionaries in mail than just Lorica Segmentata. From what I can see the mail-shirted Legionaries continued well into the 1st century AD and thus give a more flexible Roman force .I'm lucky that I ended up with both!
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Just in present day Britain:
55BC Caesar's first raid
54BC Caesar's second raid
43AD Claudius' invasion (plenty of fighting including siege and storming of hill forts, river crossings, field battles and, reputedly elephants.)
48AD Disarming of and resistance by Iceni and others
Around 51AD Caratacus conducts guerrilla warfare and constant troubles with Silures for years)
60-61(?)AD campaign through Wales to Anglesey (Mona) and almost simultaneously Boudica's revolt
84AD war in Caledonia including battle of Mons Graupius
122AD Building of Hadrian's Wall (many forts face south into the territory of the Brigantes indicating trouble there)
139-140 AD Building of Antonine's Wall
163AD Antonine's Wall abandoned - possible insurrection by Brigantes
182AD Brigantes and other tribes of southern Scotland and northern England, start a major revolt. Fighting continued for years along Hadrian’s Wall, with towns further south building strong defences in case the fighting spread.
That is probably enough.
Constant trouble in Cornwall, Devon, Wales, North England and Scotland - (Iceni, Trinovantes, Brigantes, Silures, Durotriges, Dumnonii, Ordovices, Votadini, Selgovae, Caledonii etc.)
Just about every tribe was involved as an enemy or friend or ally at different times.
Just about all the British tribal forces (less chariots) can represent Gallic and Germanic warriors as well.
Britannia was a very troublesome province that needed 3 or 4 legions as well as large numbers of Auxiliaries to maintain security and protect borders.
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Which makes you wonder why the Romans didn't invent the ASBO. ;)
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Yeah, I agree with the other posters: Brits/Scots, Gauls, Germans, and using your EIR models you can stretch to Dacians too.
And again, you can represent all the above reasonably faithfully with a shared core of models, and then add on anything more that was more distinct to each faction. Possibly the only major difference that could prove tricky is the distinctive Dacian falx, which I understand was fairly widespread in various designs amongst their forces and also proved to be rather lethal against the Romans. If you're being picky, the Phrygian type caps and helmets were also visually quite distinctive too, even though they probably don't have a gameplay impact. So you may need more Dacian-specific models than for the other opponents, but that's about it. If you collect these in 6-15mm scale figures, then the visual differences are even smaller once on the table.
Could you make each enemy of Rome more specific and distinct rather than sharing models between them? Yes. Does this mean an obscene number of (still largely repeated) modes would therefore be required? Also, yes. Do you therefore want to make each enemy of Rome more specific and distinct if you're just collecting these as OpFor? Only you can answer that! ;)
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First, thank you to all for your posts, all helpful so far.
Rules: nothing DBx anything - that whole system is more like mathematics than history to me but to each their own. Though, having stated that, I like rules to be simple and fun. While I like history, the gaming element should lean heavier on having a good time rather than simulating reality, which really can't be done with toy soldiers anyway. Get the right figures against the right opponent on an appropriately decorated table gives me enough flavor, after that, the goal is a good time. So, I welcome rules suggestions - as long as they rate as simple to play.
Most likely figures would be either this https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/principate-roman.html (https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/principate-roman.html) or much more likely this https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/15mm-heroic-roman.html (https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/15mm-heroic-roman.html). The latter being the earlier period and the shields being integral to the models.
That same company has these as a possible opponent https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/chatti.html (https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/chatti.html).
Looking at the likely figures, does that change any of your suggestions? Also, any suggestions for a matching range of figures for Britons? Obviously in 15 mm.
Lastly, for now, would using figures from this range https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/latergerman.html (https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/latergerman.html) be inappropriate for the earlier period? Some are obvious later period but perhaps some could be used to add a bit of variety?
Again, thanks for your input so far and look forward to your further responses with the additional information above.
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FifteensAway; I'd steer clear of the later Germans. To my eye they are more firmly from the "Migration Period" late 3rd-5th centuries AD. Essex Miniatures have ranges of British/Gauls and Dacians, but the sculpts are now quite old. Plastic Soldier Company have a Gallic force in their Mortem et Gloriam range. Finally, Blue Moon produce Celts, Dacians and Germans .Not normally their biggest fan but these look nice on the website.
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Those khurasan miniatures are pretty nice. I like the Antonine Roman look. It's 2nd century though, so a bit later than most of the suggestions you had. Britain was about as conquered as it ever would be by 100AD and Dacia soon after. The great Barbarian conflict for this period is this one . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcomannic_Wars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcomannic_Wars)
This is the era of Marcus Aurelius and the films Gladiator and Fall of the Roman Empire. It's the full on epic Hollywood height of Rome just before the long fall begins.
I agree with SjWi that those 3-5thC Germans are a bit late. The spangenhelms while starting to appear with the Sarmatians are more characteristic of the later Roman wars and the banded trousers are quite distinctive. The Germanic Tribes of this era are probably still quite wild.
These ones are better but you probably mix in a lot of simply attired barbarian figures with bare heads or simple caps. Stay away from spikey hair and fancy clothes.
https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/chatti.html (https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/chatti.html)
Rules are a very subjective choice and 15mm isn't really my strong suit but I'm sure you'll get lots of advice. ;)
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FifteensAway, I think most "European" enemies have been mentioned. One that hasn't is the so-called Batavian Revolt. If however you went back in time to the Marian/Caesarian Romans you could have Spanish, Gallic, Germanic, Slave Revolt in Europe plus Mithraditic, Parthian, Egyptian and Numidian in Africa and the Middle East.
The Cantabrian Wars in Northern Spain happened just at the very beginning of the Empire. Augustus and Agrippa were personally involved.
Tiberius won his military reputation in Illyricum and Pannonia when he was a young man.
There were numerous campaings in Numidia and both Mauretanias.
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So, I welcome rules suggestions - as long as they rate as simple to play.
I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but maybe try looking at Kings of War Historical? (Link (https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-historical/))
It's a ruleset based on the Kings of War fantasy game, and it's well-written, fun, light, quite tactical despite the simple rules, and works well at 15mm if you halve all ranges or use centimetres instead of inches (BTW, I would personally base as per DBA because it's a common standard at this scale, but it's up to you). What it's not however, is an accurate or historically-correct set of rules. They do try and give each army some flavour along "stereotypical" lines, but since we don't really know all that much detail about how most ancient warfare was waged anyway, I'm happy enough giving that a wave through if the game is fun and varied.
I also think you might do better getting the Marian/Caesarian Romans, and then as SJWi and Zopenco suggest you can try Spanish, Gallic, Germanic, and Numidians. And if you cheat a bit, and add some earlier Republican Romans to your force, you can do the later stages of the Punic Wars too. These are all not only characterful enemies of Rome, but quite different to each other too. If you are in the US, you might try looking at Old Glory figures perhaps? Another company (with facebook page only for now) to look at is perhaps Thistle & Rose. I believe both of these have some good non-Romans in 15mm. I personally like Forged In Battle, and have been eyeing up some Xyston Miniatures, but I don't know how easy they are to get in the US.
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Major Gilbear, I'd agree that Forged in Battle are nice figures and their ranges also include Roman Engineers and some baggage train packs. Xyston have just been bought from Grendel by Plastic Soldier Company so I guess they may be unavailable for some time. They certainly seem to have already disappeared from the Grendel website.
FifteensAway, as regards rules what size force are you looking at? Your opening question mentioned a "smallish force" but not skirmish. I guess many sets of rules are "big battles" which might preclude a "smallish force". Two Fat Lardies' "Infamy" rules are specifically for the period you are looking at, only need a smallish number of troops but IMHO work best with individually based figures. 15mm figures can be individually based using sabots but I know many people multi-base them.
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Xyston have just been bought from Grendel by Plastic Soldier Company so I guess they may be unavailable for some time. They certainly seem to have already disappeared from the Grendel website.
Ah, good to know, thank you! :) That's a bit of a shame in my eyes, as it means they'll most likely be made in Siocast now (under whatever ridiculous name-of-the-month PSC are using for the material these days). I've... Not been overly impressed with Siocast at all, and less so for anything small and/or fiddly. :?
FifteensAway, as regards rules what size force are you looking at? Your opening question mentioned a "smallish force" but not skirmish. I guess many sets of rules are "big battles" which might preclude a "smallish force". Two Fat Lardies' "Infamy" rules are specifically for the period you are looking at, only need a smallish number of troops but IMHO work best with individually based figures.
I think sensible multi-basing, with a 40mm frontage, allows the most flexibility with most rulesets compatible with that size of figure. Games like DBA use fairly few such bases of troops, but other games use considerably more. As a "building block", that style of base works well to scale up with as your collection grows - I would certainly suggest starting with smaller forces initially (again, DBA being a fair indicator of starting size and possible composition), as it's easy to get carried away otherwise! :) As a nod to how widespread the game system is, many 15mm Ancients manufacturers offer specific DBA-compatible army packs, which also cuts down on things like buying a pack of 24 figures just to use 4 mounted on two bases for example.
15mm figures can be individually based using sabots but I know many people multi-base them.
It does work, but it's pretty fiddly. Unless somebody has major space/cost constraints, I'd just advise to multi-base them, and simply treat the whole base as one figure for games like Infamy.
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MajorG, the PSC Facebook post says they will be producing in both metal and Siocast. However, the price will be going up due to having to register for VAT with the UK tax authorities. This of course probably won't affect purchases from outside UK.
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I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but maybe try looking at Kings of War Historical? (Link (https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-historical/))
It's a ruleset based on the Kings of War fantasy game, and it's well-written, fun, light, quite tactical despite the simple rules, and works well at 15mm if you halve all ranges or use centimetres instead of inches (BTW, I would personally base as per DBA because it's a common standard at this scale, but it's up to you). What it's not however, is an accurate or historically-correct set of rules. They do try and give each army some flavour along "stereotypical" lines, but since we don't really know all that much detail about how most ancient warfare was waged anyway, I'm happy enough giving that a wave through if the game is fun and varied.
I also think you might do better getting the Marian/Caesarian Romans, and then as SJWi and Zopenco suggest you can try Spanish, Gallic, Germanic, and Numidians. And if you cheat a bit, and add some earlier Republican Romans to your force, you can do the later stages of the Punic Wars too. These are all not only characterful enemies of Rome, but quite different to each other too. If you are in the US, you might try looking at Old Glory figures perhaps? Another company (with facebook page only for now) to look at is perhaps Thistle & Rose. I believe both of these have some good non-Romans in 15mm. I personally like Forged In Battle, and have been eyeing up some Xyston Miniatures, but I don't know how easy they are to get in the US.
I am a great fan of KoW Historical, I just added the command and the support (with 25% of the attacks) rules from Hail Caesar. Also might need a little tweaking for the cavalry types, to reflect the fact that Gaul cavalry was better than the Roman, the German cavalry fought really hard, but had the worst horses of the three. (We have one unit for this type of cavalry, a few points increase/decrease here and there can solve the problem.)