Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Osmoses on February 13, 2023, 10:02:29 PM
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Recently began a 6mm Crusades project. This is another 'conversion' from 15mm. I had Crusades in 15mm but there was no way I was ever going to be able to paint enough figures to do all the sides I wanted, and these days I prefer the mass effect of 6mm anyway. The big loss is the detail on the shields and flags, but I'm thinking having a lot more figures will make up for it.
Anyway, first thing was to do a bunch of Seljuks to do battles between Seljuk city-states, then add the First Crusaders later.
First set of figures, all Baccus.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnFWDOjWYAABwy_?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnFWDOpXgAIVkOS?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnFWDO-X0AAyJN_?format=jpg&name=large)
The bases are 50mm frontage. 40mm deep for the horse archers and 30mm for the heavier cavalry. I went for 50mm as I think it looks a bit better than 40mm, and I thought I might end up using a grid-based game and that would likely use 10cm squares.
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Rules for me came down to Ironbow, Deus Vult, Shattered Lances or maybe a conversion of the board game Infidel. In an ideal world some blend of all of them would exist, but currently I'm leaning towards Shattered Lances. It's a fairly tricky set of rules to get the hang of, but once you do it's probably easier to pick up again after a break than Deus Vult or Ironbow. Shattered Lances is currently very hard to get hold of, however.
First few games between Seljuk-style forces went well. The real test will come when it's Seljuks v Franks.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fnp9GnWX0AEsERM?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnvfraTXoAAhH4J?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fn0Y288WIBEtTND?format=jpg&name=large)
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Very cool looking! Have you looked for 3d printed 6mm miniatures? Or are you committed to Baccus?
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I've not seen any 3D print figures. I'm going to be doing the period from the First Crusade through to Hattin, so no 3rd Crusade. I am going to be using some of the Lazy Forger 3D buildings and I could really do with some 'Arab' civilian types to populate some town bases, but I've not found any (other than the GHQ modern ones).
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Very evocative.... :-*
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Looking great! You do get a sense of mass with 6mm.
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That looks very impressive. Really look of a major battle.
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I played Shattered lances by Brendan Moyle 2005, years ago and was really impressed how it represented the difference between the Muslim armies and Christian armies. I would love to do these in 10mm.
Brendan obviously did a lot of research into the period and warfare. Some very cleaver mechanics that capture the flavor of the period.
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Yes, I'm liking them so far. The writing style takes some getting used to, more like board game rules, but I actually prefer rules that are written like that, there's less ambiguity.
I thought long and hard about 10mm. I'd done Crusades in 15mm and you lose a lot of detail with flags and shields going down to 6mm, 10mm would have been a decent compromise. In the end I stuck with 6mm as I don't really want to be getting terrain in another scale, and 10mm would have added a lot more painting time. But I can see where it would work well for the period.
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The first crusaders to be painted are, appropriately enough, First Crusaders. Command stands with (conjectural) banners for Baldwin, Godfrey, Bohemond and Tancred.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpGRArUXwAAv4Ou?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpGRArpXoAAfxb_?format=jpg&name=large)
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Looking good. Look forward to seeing a report of them in action :-)
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That's very impressive work. Infantry in 6mm is no easy thing to get looking nice.
The bases with the horse arches running in a circle nicely capture the feel.
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I paint 6mm. I am always amazed at how much better people paint them than I do.
How does one do that level of detail? These are just beautiful figures.
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The bases with the horse arches running in a circle nicely capture the feel.
Thanks. You can get a bit more space on the bases with 6mm, so it's easier to do that sort of thing. Though I think I would've preferred it if they hadn't made a 'shooting backwards' figure and then not have to work out how to accommodate them..
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A really great setup and army. Well done
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The beauty of 6mm is those forces look like armies. You've done a spectacular job painting them!
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Very impressive I have recently taken a liking to 10mm. Seeing your 6mm here I am tempted to try something in this scale.
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Inevitably terrain will be needed, which will also inevitably spiral out of control and involve building a town of some kind. But, to begin with, a Syrian farm-type thing and the predictable oasis. Farm base is 10cm square. Leven buildings, Baccus figures, other details from Perfect Six and 3D printed stuff.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpWiPgsXgAMZsMq?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpWiPgxWYAQGQsx?format=jpg&name=large)
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More terrain-y stuff. A crusader camp. Base is 10cm x 20cm. Tents by Lazy Forger, fence by Sabotag3d (both 3d prints) other stuff by Baccus and Perfect Six.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp1cAKgX0AINKj8?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp1cAKyX0AEozsK?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp1cAKnX0AMkAVX?format=jpg&name=large)
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That’s spectacular! I love how 6mm figures can give the impression of a scene. I look forward to your updates in this thread.
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Loving those terrain pieces look forward to seeing more. Certainly shows off the advantages of 6mm - any other scale for terrain like that would take up a ton of room and for that matter time and money...
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Yes, you get a lot more relative space with 6mm, especially if you use the same base sizes as larger scales. Where you might do individual vignettes or representative terrain in larger scales, you can get a lot closer to a portrayal in 6mm that is closer to reality and has more parts to ‘tell stories’ with the terrain, all without taking up too much table area. And, as you say, given the lower cost and reduced painting time taken, it’s easier to be both more ambitious and more experimental.
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Great terrain! How did you make the water?
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It's just clear acetate. Similar to blister pack plastic.
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While you certainly lose details shields and banners, the mass effect of 6mm is awesome. It really resembles my imagination of medieval battle lines. Awesome painting!
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Thanks. Yeah, I started 6mm really as a way to get a lot of Napoleonics done and on the table as quickly as possible. I did those as 24-figure units, so it was really just a shrunken 15mm project. These days I'm much more into the mass effect you can get with 6mm.
Crusader infantry spears and crossbows.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp6gn0xWIAMDlyP?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp6gn0nWIAEjAPl?format=jpg&name=large)
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It's just clear acetate. Similar to blister pack plastic.
Looks really clean and water-like. The army also looks great!
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The bases with the horse archers running in a circle nicely capture the feel.
I'd missed that detail first time round - very cool! As expressed by others, they do give a splendid impression of massed forces.
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Still getting sidetracked into stuff that doesn't actually fight. More baggage again, this time a camel train. Total length 40 cm. Total camels 39.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqzNU-QWwBMqG3x?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqzNU-VWwBoqNeW?format=jpg&name=large)
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Not only is my mind blown that anyone can paint something so wee so well, both on this thread as well as your Viking Age stuff, but also by the speed in which you seem to be able to knock it out.
That camel train is a wonderfully atmospheric. Lovely stuff.
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Nice little camels, I like how their baggage is not uniform! (arent they supposed to march on some kinda road though?)
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They're wargames camels. They march from one table edge to another regardless of what's in between.
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Not only is my mind blown that anyone can paint something so wee so well, both on this thread as well as your Viking Age stuff, but also by the speed in which you seem to be able to knock it out.
That camel train is a wonderfully atmospheric. Lovely stuff.
Thanks. You can probably paint 8 6mm figures in the time it takes to do one 28mm figure. So you produce hundreds rather than dozens.
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That’s a great addition to your crusades collection! They really set the scene, and I could see them taking the role of objective markers for games representing raids.
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First town base done. For some reason I always end up building settlements of some kind for my 6mm projects, but I've also always wanted to make a anc-med Middle-Eastern town. I've also always wanted to do a siege game. 6mm seems like a way to make those two things attainable. This is still rather peripheral to the main project, which is obviously focussed on field battles.
My other building projects have grown organically from a few initial bases with more gradually being added. This one is slightly different as I'm aiming at an end goal of having a lot of buildings. It has proven way too daunting to plan the whole thing however, so I'm going to just gradually add bases in ones and twos like I did with the others.
The initial base has a Byzantine church (Leven) with some of the Lazy Forger 'Medina' buildings. The figures are converted Baccus with a Perfect Six shepherd. Vignettes show 2 pilgrims arriving at the church, and a local giving directions to a traveller. Base is 10cm square.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fq7iAOKXgAYrzl7?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fq7iAOhWwAEuFsb?format=jpg&name=medium)
Lots more buildings to do. Normally, these 'arab-style' buildings are pretty easy to paint, but the Lazy Forger ones have loads of details on them, so are much more time-consuming. Beautiful buildings though.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fqs_nCkXwAA69jZ?format=jpg&name=large)
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Not only is my mind blown that anyone can paint something so wee so well, both on this thread as well as your Viking Age stuff, but also by the speed in which you seem to be able to knock it out.
That camel train is a wonderfully atmospheric. Lovely stuff.
Check out his Samurai stuff, your head will explode!
Great looking figures and terrain as usual.
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Looking good. 6mm is best for the mass effect. The Japanese stuff is great too!
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That is a huge city. Good luck
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Yes, I'll do it in small stages so it will take a while. But so did the Japanese village...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeugvjoX0AEVipx?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
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Wow
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Awesome! The camel train and that village… I amazed :-*, no I’m in love;)
The scale also gives a pretty good idea about a unit’s real footprint and how artificial all our systems in bigger scale actually are when referring to historical battles.
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I think what is great about your project is, despite the small scale of 6mm, each unit has been lovingly painted and with an eye to making the army look like a real army. Very commendable 8)
Great period too 8)
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Awesome! The camel train and that village… I amazed :-*, no I’m in love;)
The scale also gives a pretty good idea about a unit’s real footprint and how artificial all our systems in bigger scale actually are when referring to historical battles.
You do get more of a sense of what a unit was, (and therefore how difficult it would have been to 'wheel' :))
DBA heavy infantry elements represented about 1,500 men iirc. This is 1,500 men:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqXmKeXXoAAIiSb?format=jpg&name=large)
Or 24 figures at 1:64 scale. 30 figures at 1:50 etc
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Wow, great terrain!
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Had a go at a game to give the Franks a try in the Shattered Lances rules. I'll hopefully do a full write-up soon.
Ridwan of Aleppo was back and this time allied with Baldwin of Edessa against Ridwan's brother Duqaq of Damascus and his subordinate Tughtekhin. You'd be hard pushed to find anyone more untrustworthy than these 4 in all of Syria around 1100.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fq9pvTAXgAARnxe?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fq9pvTDWAAA0X_u?format=jpg&name=large)
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That’s a striking looking battlefield and pair of armies! It gets across the big battle feel.
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Did you print those buildings or did you find someone who printed for you. If you have a company that prints them could you let us know the name of the company?
Great stuff, look forward to the Shattered Lances after action report. Am really tempted to follow your lead and jump in with the 6mm from baccus.
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Holy moly! This is all so good.
And if someone could add a link to Osmoses' Samurai thread that would be awesome.
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I got permission from the designer to have a friend print them for me. I personally don't know the first thing about 3D printing!
There's a licensed printer in the UK here, and a few on Etsy I think:
https://www.mighty-minis-uk.com/product/future-medina-bundle
My Sengoku thread is here. It goes back quite a bit....
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102281.0
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Brief write up of the Shattered Lances game on my 'other' blog :)
https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/2023/03/13/brothers-in-arms-a-shattered-lances-game
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrBLrqnXgAMjV3p?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrBMBtPWIAAeZ03?format=jpg&name=large)
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Very cool. I know not up to the same standard of quality of others but don't overlook Irregular Miniatures 6 mm ranges - you just might find your civilian figures there though I'm not certain, they definitely have a Civilian range though. Might find other gems in their ranges. And their service has always been excellent.
That city is quite a site to behold.
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Here is an interesting article by Brendan Moyle about the rules Shattered Lances.
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How are you liking the mohair mat? I tried it a couple times and never quite got it to work right.
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It's OK. I tried various approaches, and the fur's become a bit matted in places where I think the paint was too thick, mainly on the other ('Sengoku') side of the mat. Thinned down acrylic and spread it out with a comb or hands seems to be the best way.
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Very cool. I know not up to the same standard of quality of others but don't overlook Irregular Miniatures 6 mm ranges - you just might find your civilian figures there though I'm not certain, they definitely have a Civilian range though. Might find other gems in their ranges. And their service has always been excellent.
That city is quite a site to behold.
Good shout. Ordered a few Irregular bits to have a look. I think I can just about get by with converting various Baccus figures, but more variety is always useful.
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Beware very different figure sizes. You wouldn’t want to mix Baccus and Irregular in the same base/unit, same for Heroic and Ros and Baccus. Baccus are definitely chunkier/bigger. Adler mix quite well with them being in the same style.
Edit. Looks like Adler only do 6 mm from 7 years war and later so probably not a lot in the range that would be of use.
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Raymond of Toulouse and some more spearmen.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrXagF5WIBIBB6l?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrXagFpWICAYDGq?format=jpg&name=large)
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Simply awesome!
I'm doing Wars of the Roses in 6mm, the mass effect is great!
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Cheers. I've got some WOTR as well in 6mm. Must do some more for it at some point
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Epr_FuAXcAom4fN?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
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Added some more Frankish knights, so the Franks are more or less at the point of being able to fight on their own in a small game.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrrMUPbXwAESOs6?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrrMUPdWcAE5Zdw?format=jpg&name=large)
And some Leven castle walls in the background.....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrrMUPyXwAMDGtu?format=jpg&name=large)
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Amazing look! It is a shame that there are not many rules dedicated to this scale.
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I don't think it matters. My bases are 50mm, so they either become single elements in most rules or double elements. I'm currently playing Shattered Lances with the same move distances as 15mm.
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I've added another town base, and also done some city walls (from the castle components range by Leven Miniatures). The walls are pretty easy to do, the town bases certainly aren't.... So this may take a while to get anywhere near something that actually looks like a town. I may gradually do some siege stuff, and some more appropriate troop bases for going on the walls etc. There's some siege rules in the 'Soldiers of Gaahd' rules which look worth a try.
The civilians are mostly Baccus civilian types from other ranges with some conversion done. This is mostly just a case of applying some Vallejo plastic putty with an old brush. Along with some creative painting it's pretty easy to get them looking suitably Middle-Eastern.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fr0Y9WZWcAA4JsX?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fr2PJaNWIBwYFT2?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fr2PJaQWIBc6Zob?format=jpg&name=large)
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That is a fabulous walled town - great work
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Another bit added to the town. Whole thing about 23cm square. Think I might take a break from the buildings and paint some figures that can actually fight...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsEahOZXsAAQTBO?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsEahOMWIAEFWmP?format=jpg&name=large)
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Wow! That's an amazing piece of work :-* :-* :-*
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Awesome!
A great town
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That looks brilliant. Very nice work
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That town looks fantastic!
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Very nice collection
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Those look incredible.
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Fantastic terrain! Absolutely brilliant!
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Added some more town wall sections as they're pretty easy to do. Leven miniatures castle components.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FspXksuWcAEzEDl?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FspXh_6XwAIqRTr?format=jpg&name=large)
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Finished just about enough Franks for a game of Shattered Lances. This was a relatively cagey affair, until multiple Frankish charges managed to break the Seljuks.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsyNC8RXwAEVxzv?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsyOCv0WwAAnwJz?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsycT4HWwAES8ON?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fsy04haWAAIV5bu?format=jpg&name=large)
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You have no idea how envious I am of you right now!
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It's a joy seeing a collection this splendid in action. :o :-* And I may need to limit the time I spend admiring small scale projects like this or I may wander in. :)
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That city is just about perfect. 8)
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Thanks. But there's a long way to go yet....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtDIfgLWcAUTKNu?format=jpg&name=large)
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Nice :o
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The armies - the numbers, the paintjobs, and then that city - amazing work. Love it. Crusades is my favorite medieval period. You do it well.
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I’m in love with those castle walls! :o :-*
You definitely make a point highlighting all the advantages of small scale wargaming!
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Thanks. Up until a few years ago I couldn't get on with painting 6mm at all. I had a bit of an epiphany painting some Napoleonics, and now it's my preferred scale for big battles. Painting in this scale is pretty forgiving. I've been painting some Normans in 28mm, and I wouldn't try and attempt to freehand dragons etc on the shields, but in 6mm you only need to give an impression of one, the shield will just merge into the unit as a whole.
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This makes me wanna get some 6mm Crusaders and Muslims for myself. The units and the city are amazing, really evocative and gives the vibe of a big battle. I've never tried 6mm but wouldn't be opposed to giving it a try. Really amazing work!
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Thanks. I only got into 6mm a few years ago, but it's easily my preferred scale for big battles now.
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Added some more stuff. First, some Turcopoles:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fupg9rwWwAIfmZx?format=jpg&name=large)
And another base for 'Al-Madina.' A bit easier this one as it didn't use as many buildings...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvZCsKDX0AUNEtS?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvZCsKmWwAUZHS9?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvZCsKFXoAYZpB2?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvZCsKsWIAU0hin?format=jpg&name=large)
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I love the park in the city. Nice touch
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Very cool collection of minis, lovely city and nice looking battle.
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That’s a great little city 8)
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Super inspiring thread. Really enjoyed this.
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Added some Bedouin cavalry.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvdhXyqWYAAKeQr?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvdhXysWAAIW_v5?format=jpg&name=large)
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Simply superb miniatures and urban terrain! Please keep us updated with any games using these great toys.
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Game of Soldiers of Gaahhd at the club tonight.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyiIecNXwAIeTdq?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyiIecQXwAAPFso?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyiIechWYAI3U7o?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyiIecMX0AMA3Ew?format=jpg&name=large)
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Looks like it was a great game.
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Yeah, it was a good game. Nice to give SoG a run-out. Was too busy playing and explaining rules to keep the table free of clutter for the photos though...
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Was too busy playing and explaining rules to keep the table free of clutter for the photos though...
Fantastic miniatures and terrain. Love your stuff! :-*
How many folks are in your club?
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Cheers. Our club's had a bit of an influx recently. There's only been 3 of us for a long time, but now there's 8. New guys are mostly sci-fi gamers however, so I'm still pretty much the lone advocate for anything medieval here :)
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Very nice and impressive
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Added some more knights. Did a bit of minor conversion on the shields and gave them unit coloured lance-pennons to make them into Crusader States units. All rather conjectural, but useful for differentiation later on.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F44REqrXIAASaBF?format=jpg&name=large)
And with the others:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F44REq3XAAAWC-R?format=jpg&name=large)
Knights Templar next....
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Great collection, looks very impressive.
Do you have a website/blog?
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Cheers. I have two, a general games blog which I don't post much on:
https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/ (https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/)
And a Sengoku Jidai focussed one:
https://tenkafubu608971038.wordpress.com/ (https://tenkafubu608971038.wordpress.com/)
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Cheers. I have two, a general games blog which I don't post much on:
https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/ (https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/)
And a Sengoku Jidai focussed one:
https://tenkafubu608971038.wordpress.com/ (https://tenkafubu608971038.wordpress.com/)
Thanks, please keep up the inspirational work
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Lovely, as usual. 8)
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Random bit of silliness. (Can't post gifs here afaics)
https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/2023/09/04/anna-comnena-was-right/ (https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/2023/09/04/anna-comnena-was-right/)
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Finished a unit of Templars. This involved a bit of conversion, though fairly straightforward. I snipped off the bosses of the shields and 'painted' on some Vallejo plastic putty over the armour to make the habits/surcoats. I did a bit of shading with the painting as well to increase the illusion of cloth, just in case anyone peers at them from 20cm away. Conversions in 6mm are actually pretty easy, you don't have to be too exact, and a lot of the work in achieving a convincing outcome will be achieved by the mass effect and the context the figures appear in.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Vk-TsWEAAFCpZ?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Vk-T9WEAAnfsr?format=jpg&name=large)
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Beautiful work, as always! This project has been fascinating to watch.
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Thanks very much.
My interest in the Crusades was first sparked many years ago by the historical novel, "Knights of Dark Renown," by Graham Shelby. So it was inevitable that I'd get around to doing some command groups for some of the characters in the book. Here are Raymond, Count of Tripoli; Balian D'Ibelin, Lord of Nablus; Reynald De Chatillon, Prince of Outrejourdain and Gerard De Ridefort, Master of the Temple.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5VkMyGXYAAw4th?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5VkMx-WwAAMnqk?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5VkMx9XMAA8Q4J?format=jpg&name=large)
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Great book and loved the sequel too.
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Put a brief write-up of a battle from a few months ago on my 'blog.
https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/2023/09/15/another-crusades-battle/ (https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/2023/09/15/another-crusades-battle/)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsyNlDxXsAk5egA?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsyOCvHXgAYuq4J?format=jpg&name=large)
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Some more Frankish infantry done.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/drive-viewer/AITFw-wJ5wXuZPx0cZSmyoHzCGgScM8kxAzo9dSzzsDkRnap0aPkAsVDlikuWW07mlveereNMIMbMIQNaWZ5vvcmMsk9F2lvZw=s1600)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/drive-viewer/AITFw-ymJespOtizy4cDQzCxQwW25D0yXlrCgKYzwaTD_qF2g8yddtbWcf2vbJLqojDfF_vNULme1cARNPVsQglJuKhqT8ydrQ=s1600)
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Good stuff as usual.
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That’s spectacular! Definitely gives the impression of a body of troops!