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Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Emir of Askaristan on March 11, 2023, 06:49:10 PM
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Having a bit of an 80's nostalgia kick at the moment and dived into Team Yankee (long story...don't ask!!).
Anyway I decided I wanted a slightly earlier feel than the 1985 setting in the books, with some units having earlier kit, so rather than Tornado I thought Alpha Jets and Starfighters for my West Germans. Now there isn't huge amounts of difference between planes in TY so I based these on the Skyhawk stats and tweaked slighter for the Starfighters smaller gun.
Cards are done. Just need to get the kits now.
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Two aircraft to put the fear of God into their pilots... :)
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Two aircraft to put the fear of God into their pilots... :)
Well said. Didn't the F-104 kill more of it's pilots than enemies?
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Well said. Didn't the F-104 kill more of it's pilots than enemies?
That seems to have been the case, but to be fair: it was mostly used by America‘s allies and didn’t seeebmuch action in real conflicts.
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That seems to have been the case, but to be fair: it was mostly used by America‘s allies and didn’t seeebmuch action in real conflicts.
Indeed, not one of Kelly Johnstons best aircraft I`m afraid, unlike the SR-71 Blackbird, the Starfighter also served as the basis for the U2 spyplane of Gary Powers fame. Known as the Widowmaker in the west German and US air forces :-[
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Indeed, not one of Kelly Johnstons best aircraft I`m afraid, unlike the SR-71 Blackbird, the Starfighter also served as the basis for the U2 spyplane of Gary Powers fame. Known as the Widowmaker in the west German and US air forces :-[
But trying to use an aircraft designed for a rather specific role (high-altitude air superiority and bomber interception) for a significantly different purpose (nuclear weapons delivery and, later, fighter-bomber ground support) was fraught with problems in the first place. Lockheed's sales policies and German political corruption didn't help, either.
Looking forward to some model pics, too. Always had a soft spot in my heart for the Alpha Jet and wished Revell and/or Heller would re-release their 1/72 kits.
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The Alpha-Jet is the correct aircraft for West German Close Air Support squadrons anyway, right through the 1980s. The G-91 'Pigs' were just going out of service in that role and were being replaced by the Alpha-Jet, which only started coming into Luftwaffe service from 1979. So you could also have G-91s right up to the mid-1980s.
Tornado was for deep interdiction-strike (and maritime-strike for the Navy); not really a CAS beast at all, so I've no idea why Team Yankee chose it as their 'standard' German CAS aircraft.
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One interesting role the Germans trialled with Alpha-Jets during the 1980s was to have some as dedicated helicopter-killers, loaded to the eyeballs with Sidewinder.
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One interesting role the Germans trialled with Alpha-Jets during the 1980s was to have some as dedicated helicopter-killers, loaded to the eyeballs with Sidewinder.
The Alpha Jet is a really interesting beast and great for what if scenarios.
Concerning Team Yankee: I think they chose the Tornado just because it’s the best known and sexiest West German plane from that time. But it’s choice is kinda strange. Maybe they’ll release a Tomcat for the Americans next? ;)
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But trying to use an aircraft designed for a rather specific role (high-altitude air superiority and bomber interception) for a significantly different purpose (nuclear weapons delivery and, later, fighter-bomber ground support) was fraught with problems in the first place. Lockheed's sales policies and German political corruption didn't help, either.
Looking forward to some model pics, too. Always had a soft spot in my heart for the Alpha Jet and wished Revell and/or Heller would re-release their 1/72 kits.
Agreed about the sales and political problems, the Jaguar would have been a far, far better choice, or even the good old Buccaneer, but its all history now ;).
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Nice, I am pretty sure that if this version sticks, there will be Team Yankees of other eras too- 1975 or 1965 would feature a lot of different hardware, but easily coverable with the same basic ruleset, and also the 1985 collection would be a good starting point.
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If you look through the other supplements then the other, earlier equipment is there. Using bits of info from other vehicles and aircraft is fairly easy. Smaller calibre gun for the Starfighter for example. Centurions and M60's from the Fate of a Nation book too and there are lots of stat cards online if you don't have a copy.
Some of the equipment listed in the current books is a little too new for '85. It was either only just being introduced or in some cases hadn't entered manufacture. Marder 2 being an example,
The card was fun to do...fiddly but now I've got a template.
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Great stuff, liking those cards
Cheers
Matt
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If you don't fancy a kit, there are 1/100 diecast Alpha JetsandF-104s kicking around out there and of course there's the old 1/100 Tamiya Starfighter. Those can usually be picked up fairly cheaply second hand.
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If you don't fancy a kit, there are 1/100 diecast Alpha JetsandF-104s kicking around out there and of course there's the old 1/100 Tamiya Starfighter. Those can usually be picked up fairly cheaply second hand.
Yes indeed, the range of die-cast models is phenomenal. I was picking the 1/100th Fabri/Italeri die-cast models for £3-£5 at the shows a few years back and they still appear cheaply on eBay. I found a load of Italian F-104s and repainted some as German. Also Belgian and French Alpha-Jets; again, some repainted as German. I've also got US F-18A repainted as Canadian CF-18, Mirages with remodelled nose-cones turned into Belgian Mirage V, a Sea Harrier, half a dozen Apaches, Italian Mangusta, Mi-24 Hind D & E, German police Bo-105 repainted as military and quite a few other bits and pieces.
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Without straying into the age old scale thing, I tend to use 1/144 kits for this. My Dutch have a couple of 1/144 Starfighters waiting to be painted. I know in-game they're supposed to receive German airsupport in the form of Tornadoes, but I want all units in this force to be Dutch, including the airsupport.
I originally wanted NF-5's, but those are not easy to find at either 1/100 or 1/144. Maybe I could find a good STL by now though...
My wife gifted me an original Revell 1/144 F-16 from the eighties which she found at a thrift shop. I even had that very same kit when I was a lad, so it's also kind of nostalgic. At this particular point in time though (1985), Starfighters and NF-5's were still more common than F-16's in Dutch service, so Starfighters it'll be.
The TY list further states that helicopter support for the Dutch is also German, with TOW equiped Bo-105's. The Netherlands was also flying Bo-105's though but unarmed. Still; with a war on, it's not outside the realm of possibilites for the Dutch to add TOW's to their own helo's to fill that gap. So mine are Dutch Bolkows with TOW's (TY kits painted as Dutch).
But let's be realistic; aside from helicopters, no aircraft should really be represented on the battlefield at this scale. Especially when the battlefield is as small as a table... ;)
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But let's be realistic; aside from helicopters, no aircraft should really be represented on the battlefield at this scale. Especially when the battlefield is as small as a table... ;)
The trick is to pick up the model and whisk it past the players eyes and off the table before they can blink. Accompanying wooshing jet engine noises at your discretion. ;)
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Ah, but that I can do! (and do, obviously lol )
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The obligatory response is of course 'fucking crabs/ Luftwaffe/ RAAF' etc [insert name of relevant blue clad public servants here].
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Without straying into the age old scale thing, I tend to use 1/144 kits for this. My Dutch have a couple of 1/144 Starfighters waiting to be painted. I know in-game they're supposed to receive German airsupport in the form of Tornadoes, but I want all units in this force to be Dutch, including the airsupport.
I originally wanted NF-5's, but those are not easy to find at either 1/100 or 1/144. Maybe I could find a good STL by now though...
My wife gifted me an original Revell 1/144 F-16 from the eighties which she found at a thrift shop. I even had that very same kit when I was a lad, so it's also kind of nostalgic. At this particular point in time though (1985), Starfighters and NF-5's were still more common than F-16's in Dutch service, so Starfighters it'll be.
The TY list further states that helicopter support for the Dutch is also German, with TOW equiped Bo-105's. The Netherlands was also flying Bo-105's though but unarmed. Still; with a war on, it's not outside the realm of possibilites for the Dutch to add TOW's to their own helo's to fill that gap. So mine are Dutch Bolkows with TOW's (TY kits painted as Dutch).
But let's be realistic; aside from helicopters, no aircraft should really be represented on the battlefield at this scale. Especially when the battlefield is as small as a table... ;)
That Fabbri/Italeri range included a South Vietnamese F5. I repainted one as a Canadian CF5 (aka CF116).
Yes, necessity is the mother of invention, as we're seeing in Ukraine.
Yes, aircraft models are completely unnecessary! lol I don't play TY, but they probably behave the same in most rules, in that they fly in, do their thing (provided they haven't been shot down) and then bugger off again, all in one turn! :D I do like the look of a hairyplane or two over the table, though... 8)
http://www.jemimafawr.co.uk/2020/05/17/my-partizan-in-the-cloud-the-cassinga-raid-angola-1978/
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The obligatory response is of course 'fucking crabs/ Luftwaffe/ RAAF' etc [insert name of relevant blue clad public servants here].
We always say the nicest things about you... :'(
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Without straying into the age old scale thing, I tend to use 1/144 kits for this. My Dutch have a couple of 1/144 Starfighters waiting to be painted. I know in-game they're supposed to receive German airsupport in the form of Tornadoes, but I want all units in this force to be Dutch, including the airsupport.
The "official" scales (=the aircraft you got in the starter sets) are 1/144 for fixed wing aircraft, 1/100 for helicopters (those can land and thus must match the ground forces). 1/144 is more common than 1/100 I guess.
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We always say the nicest things about you... :'(
But it's always said with great affection. ;)
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Well, I could not help myself; the fire's been stoked and now I'm in the middle of building two very cheap Starfighter kits ::)
But I'm modeling (at least one of) mine with two Mk84 bombs (2000 lbs) instead of the 1000 lbs ones the good emir put on his unit card. What would the in-game equivalent stats be for such large pieces of fireworks? :D
Own thread to follow shortly, once I take some pictures btw...
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:) If you let me know what you decide re the weapons let me know and I'll amend the card. Have a look through the other aircraft and find one which has a similar payload but there's not a huge difference in weapons in TY.
Glad to see this thread has created such a lot of interest.....I've not had a chance to put either plane into production myself yet!
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Die-cast I/100 Italian Starfighter, with Italian roundels and marking over painted and hidden.
Not sure if I will do the number too as it's quite large - we'll see. I will touch up some more once the German luftwaffe markings I'm waiting on arrive.
Wrong scale for TY aircraft, but I don't have any other planes and neither do those I game with, it was cheaper than the kits and lastly I don't care! 😆
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Yay Starfighter! 8)
They're such an iconic part of my childhood, as we used to live very near an airbase, right under the approach path. So a pair would be coming in to land right over our house every ten minutes during excersizes (and there were a lot of those).
Worse would be when they practiced breaking off landing undert simulated attack; they would go vertical, afterburners lit, thundering up right over our house. Gave me nightmares as a three year old (which later turned into obsession, as these things do). My mother hated that because all her white sheets, hanging outside to dry, would be grey afterwards, ready for another wash because of the soot raining down...
But I've always liked them since :D
I've got two 1/144 ones on my painting desk right now, but that project (together with two BO-105 helicopters) stalled because of butterfly syndrome ::) I really should put the finishing touches on them, as they're almost done by now. Just touching up the camo, detailing and decals (I'm painting mine in Dutch livery).
You've got a cool version there though, especially since it's a diecast and actually cheaper than a kit! You say the scale is wrong, but if I'd have had my say, I would have gone all 1/100, as opposed to a mix of two scales for the game. I understand the reasoning of course, and I've conformed, but nobody states you can't use 1/100 for your fast movers!
I'd opt to paint over the numbers btw. The German ones go into exactly the same location and any mistakes or colour differences will be invisible once those black and white markings are on there...
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Thanks for the tip...will see what the transfers look like and decide.
Have had similar experiences with Tornadoes and Typhoons at Lossie. Look forward to seeing yours. Got a soft spot for the Dutch
Better pic attached.
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And not to ruffle your feathers or to be pedantic, but the Italian paintscheme is decidedly different from the German one, so you might consider repainting the whole jet. The Italian scheme has rounded, flowing camo, while the german one is all about sharp, blocky shapes. In fact; the Germans used the same pattern as the Dutch in this case.
(https://www.aviationphotocompany.com/img/s/v-10/p2250686305-3.jpg) (https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1qosoGpXXXXa3XFXXq6xXFXXXd/220209731/HTB1qosoGpXXXXa3XFXXq6xXFXXXd.jpg)
I'm not a rivet counter at all, but I told you scary planes eventually became a bit of an obsession. And even though I eventually got better, anything plane related apparently still triggers me lol
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Looks the business! 1/100 looks about right to me anyway. 1/100 kits aren't especially common as compared to 1/144 or 1/72 but Tamiya have a small selection, albeit mostly geared to the 1960s and '70s but some useful items none the less.
https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/100air/kit61601.htm
The current line up on their web page is a bit thin but I know that you can find a number more, second hand, including a Starfighter if you ever feel the need for another.
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Hmm since it moves so fast it's a blur anyway I'll be leaving as is.
Besides...I've got another of the same plane coming and it's only for me. It took me all my time to paint the camo on my tanks...forget the aircraft!
But I shall be comfortable knowing that where my need stops, your obsession takes over and let you carry the torch of correctness ☺️
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Fair enough, and you're right about them being a blur. To be honest; I've never really been able to distinguish the patterns while they were airborne anyway. It's only on the ground that they're actually discernable.
...But I shall be comfortable knowing that where my need stops, your obsession takes over and let you carry the torch of correctness ☺️
And I shall carry it with pride, correct RAL numbers and all lol