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Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: nicknorthstar on March 12, 2023, 08:34:28 PM

Title: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 12, 2023, 08:34:28 PM
I've been planning a Silmarillion/ Tolkien 1st Age project for 40 years. Tragic isn't it?

But I'm at last on the path.

So far I've a small group of High Elves and Wood Elves, painted by Ian Craig, and a good number of Orcs painted by a local painter. I've also got Glaurung painted by Andrew Taylor.

The idea is to build a large Morgoth army, and a good number of Noldor, Sindar and Elf-Friends to oppose them to refight the Wars of Beleriand.

I'm just using Oathmark figures at the moment, but I'm basing them on a more traditional 20mm square rather than the 25mm Oathmark bases.

I'm not sure what rules to use, maybe this is one of the reasons the project never got started. (I tell a lie, it got underway in the 90s, I've still got the Orcs, all Harlequin Miniatures Goblins, but the Elves and men are lost to time now.)

I'll probably use Oathmark as I'm playing and liking that right, good chance I'll play my chum Mr James Morris using his new Midgard rules being published by the Lardies soon. I might even go 'Old Skool' and have a WFB 3rd edition game, as that was what was going to be used originally. I won't be using DBM. I say that because that was the plan in the 90s, and all the Orcs from then are on 60mm by 30mm bases.

I'll share more as they come.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: AKULA on March 12, 2023, 08:45:21 PM
I've been planning a Silmarillion/ Tolkien 1st Age project for 40 years. Tragic isn't it?

Seems perfectly reasonable to me … the main thing is that it’s underway, because let’s be honest this sort of project will never truly be finished  8)

Lovely paint jobs, look forward to seeing more.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Pattus Magnus on March 12, 2023, 09:23:19 PM
The first installment is certainly a great start! I’ll be eager to see the updates as this progresses. Regarding rules, one possibility that hasn’t been published yet but could do the job is Midgard. The author has already used it for games set in that period and they look spectacular!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 12, 2023, 09:36:24 PM
Looks great  :)

3rd Ed for the win  :D
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: LouieN on March 13, 2023, 04:45:33 AM
An awesome project.  The units look great. 
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DivisMal on March 13, 2023, 05:48:54 AM
A great (retarded) start. Ruleswise Oathmark is a good choice (and seriously: if you’ve got a chance to play, then this is a big advantage). Otherwise, I’d suggest Warhammer Historical: Magic isn’t such a thing in Middle Earth warfare (okay, Gandalph can turn on the lights, but that’s basically it). WAB gives you nice rules for light foot, riders, beasties etc. And those do see plenty of action!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Old Hob on March 13, 2023, 08:58:06 AM
Ah, the one project I think most fantasy players have dreamed of since they were kids. And the Oathmark kits you've been producing have always felt much more Tolkien than a certain other manufacturer's minis based on the movies. They are absolutely perfect for this project.
I'd like to suggest maybe also having a look at some of the Ragnarok goblins and dwarves, which have a similar aesthetic and are a good match scale-wise. Regardless, I'm really looking forward to see how this project grows. Any ideas for Balrogs?
 
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 13, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
A great (retarded) start. Ruleswise Oathmark is a good choice (and seriously: if you’ve got a chance to play, then this is a big advantage). Otherwise, I’d suggest Warhammer Historical: Magic isn’t such a thing in Middle Earth warfare (okay, Gandalph can turn on the lights, but that’s basically it). WAB gives you nice rules for light foot, riders, beasties etc. And those do see plenty of action!

I played so much WAB I could play it without the rulebooks, so yes, a good call. You've actually reminded me of something. I wrote a set of Middle-Earth army lists for WAB back in the 90s! They were LotR 3rd Age not 1st Age. It was early PC days, so I've no digital record of them anywhere. I wrote them for WAB for the reasons you mentioned above, ie there were no magic users.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 13, 2023, 10:54:30 AM
Any ideas for Balrogs?

Oh man, are you trying to start a flame war?  lol Graham Green will be dragging me around in a headlock if I use figures with wings  lol lol

I've got this little beut:
It's a little smaller than I'd like but it'd be a shame not to use it considering it's history with me.

Are you sitting comfortably, I'll begin.
I walked into Games Workshop Nottingham in 1983, clutching my pocket money, planning to buy a couple of Citadel figures. On the counter was this issue of Miniature Wargames. I opened the mag and this picture of a Balrog fighting adventurers was on page 3 or 4. Remember, in those days you rarely saw colour photos of painted Fantasy figures, White Dwarf never had them in for example, so I thought 'Oh. I'll buy this'. This was my introduction to Historical Wargames. I started subscribing and within no time I knew what WRG, Nikephorian Byzantine and Newbury Ancients were.
I remained a WFB enthusiast in the 80s, but was fully aware of the Historical side of the hobby.
As the years went by I became good friends with the founder of MW, Duncan Macfarlane. I always told him about how that photo of the Balrog got me into historical wargames, he'd reply with a nod.
When he passed away 2 years ago, it fell to myself and Dan of Wargames Illustrated to look after his interests as he had no kin. He'd already stated that his wargames collection was the property of WI, so Dan and I just went through it to see what was there and catalogue it. We got to the fantasy section and there was the Balrog!! I said to Dan 'you have to let me have this figure' and then we discussed how many times I'd mentioned the picture that got me into historicals to Dunc and he never once said 'Oh Yeah, still got that Balrog somewhere!!' Bless him. (we didn't come across any of the other miniatures in the photo BTW).

PS I'm still not sure if this was painted by John Blanche. He can't recall, it was a VERY long time ago. It doesn't look like the other stuff from that era Dunc had by him in his collection except for one big detail. That black base. The other fantasy figures are based on the same style bases.


Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Old Hob on March 13, 2023, 11:58:36 AM
It's a little smaller than I'd like

Depends which part of the miniature you're talking about  :o

But given that history, he has to be your go-to Gothmog, regardless of wings. What a wonderful thing to have in your collection.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Mason on March 13, 2023, 01:28:23 PM
A LotR project, eh?
I bet that is something that has been on the back burner for so many of us older gamers.
Mine has always threatened but never got very far.
I like what you have so far and your figure choices look great for the 1st Age.
 8)

Love the Balrog story too.
 :)

Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 13, 2023, 01:46:32 PM
A LotR project, eh?
I bet that is something that has been on the back burner for so many of us older gamers.
Mine has always threatened but never got very far.
I like what you have so far and your figure choices look great for the 1st Age.
 8)

Love the Balrog story too.
 :)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DivisMal on March 13, 2023, 03:30:23 PM
The Balrog story was…legendary! Very much enjoyed it.
If you ever care to digitize your WAB armylists for ME, I would love to have a look. I’ve been tinkering and playing with this idea, even fought several battles, but never put the ideas down into lists.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 13, 2023, 04:33:43 PM
The Balrog story was…legendary! Very much enjoyed it.
If you ever care to digitize your WAB armylists for ME, I would love to have a look. I’ve been tinkering and playing with this idea, even fought several battles, but never put the ideas down into lists.

They were in print back in the 90s, I could scan them. But they didn't all get into print, so some are lost to time.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DivisMal on March 13, 2023, 06:15:17 PM
They were in print back in the 90s, I could scan them. But they didn't all get into print, so some are lost to time.

Thanks. That would be very much appreciated!

PM sent.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 13, 2023, 07:15:10 PM
I've only got Gondor & Lothlorien that went to print. Darn it, I recall I put loads of work into the Rohan, Saruman and Mordor lists.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: sir_shvantselot on March 13, 2023, 09:57:05 PM
Thanks for sharing these stories.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DivisMal on March 13, 2023, 10:11:38 PM
I've only got Gondor & Lothlorien that went to print. Darn it, I recall I put loads of work into the Rohan, Saruman and Mordor lists.

That’s really a pity! Your thoughts on Saruman would be very interesting!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 14, 2023, 10:39:12 AM
I don't want to derail this thread into a WAB lists discussion, so I've scanned the army lists and started a new thread here:

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=140528.0 (https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=140528.0)
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Daeothar on March 14, 2023, 10:46:03 AM
That is a nice real world background story on your Balrog :)

Funny how oftentimes our ideas on how something must look is determined by the first representation we see of the subject matter.

My Balrog will probably always have wings because my first physical representation of one (or so I interpreted it), was the Gargoyle miniature in the Hero Quest game. I mean; it had a whip and a flaming sword, was huge (the largest monster in the box) and had a monstrous head. Of course teenage me immediately saw it for what it was; a Balrog in disguise.

Only many years later did I realise it was in fact a Bloodthirster by another name. But what is a Bloodthirster but an IP evading Balrog miniature, right? :D
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: tikitang on March 14, 2023, 04:51:16 PM
Superb idea!


My Balrog will probably always have wings because my first physical representation of one (or so I interpreted it), was the Gargoyle miniature in the Hero Quest game. I mean; it had a whip and a flaming sword, was huge (the largest monster in the box) and had a monstrous head. Of course teenage me immediately saw it for what it was; a Balrog in disguise.

I remember assuming, as a child, that the HeroQuest Gargoyle was a Balrog when I saw the flaming sword and whip!

And really, as you suggest, that's exactly what it is when it comes down to it.

Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Plynkes on March 14, 2023, 05:05:48 PM
Funny how oftentimes our ideas on how something must look is determined by the first representation we see of the subject matter.


That's so true. My first exposure to the idea of Balrogs was the Ralph Bakshi animated film, which I saw at the pictures when I was eight. So for me Balrogs must have huge red wings and a head that looks like it belongs on a lion.  :)

Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: tikitang on March 14, 2023, 05:41:54 PM
My first exposure to the idea of Balrogs was the Ralph Bakshi animated film

Same. I have had a lifelong fascination with Balrogs ever since that moment (though I was too young to see it in the cinema; my parents did, but I saw it on my parents' 1:1 12" TV!)
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DivisMal on March 14, 2023, 05:50:25 PM
I don't want to derail this thread into a WAB lists discussion, so I've scanned the army lists and started a new thread here:

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=140528.0 (https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=140528.0)

Splendid!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 14, 2023, 06:15:53 PM
This was my first image of a Balrog, Joan Wyatt's 'A Middle-Earth Album'. Very similar to the Bakshi Balrog. This picture spoilt the book a little bit, 'cus I saw it before I'd read that far in the book  :? So I was 'wonder when the monster will appear.' I saw the Ral Partha model very soon after (The model above) and again, not dissimilar in style to both illustrations. So yes, that's balrogs for me, wings, naked and lion-esque.

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hlnPTAaAfhI/V4oBndrinwI/AAAAAAAAauU/6GC-flZbMjQpuhP41w7FrKxzwREYLMbrgCKgB/s1600/balrog%2Bby%2Bjoan%2Bwyatt.jpg)
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: tikitang on March 14, 2023, 06:34:26 PM
Wow, I've never heard of or seen that artist before. I must look this up!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DivisMal on March 14, 2023, 06:39:29 PM
I don’t want to derail this thread, but I had a similar experience reading LotR, having first seen the cover of Interplay’s LotR CRPG, which, in turn, is a piece of art done by the brothers Hildebrandt.

It would be intriguing to see where our ideas of how a Balrog looks like come from. Sadly the brothers‘s website doesn’t give a date for the picture: https://www.spiderwebart.com/productsd.asp?snob=110521

Edit: I found the following text on an auction site selling the picture:
„ Known world wide for their fantasy and science fiction illustrations, identical twin brothers Greg and Tim Hildebrandt created an abundance of fascinating artwork, most notably their illustration work for J.R.R. Tolkien's 'The Hobbit' and 'Lord of the Rings'. "Balrog", originally created in the 1970's for Ballantine Books, is a limited edition giclee on canvas, numbered and hand signed by Greg Hildebrandt! Measures approx. 28" x 21" (image).“
https://www.pristineauction.com/a606303-The-Brothers-Hildebrandt-Balrog-Limited-Edition-28x21-Giclee-on-Canvas

If this is correct, this might be the source for all the bloodthirster, winged lion balrogs.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: tikitang on March 14, 2023, 06:41:42 PM
Sadly the brothers‘s website doesn’t give a date for the picture

I can tell you: 1977.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Hobgoblin on March 15, 2023, 11:39:17 AM
Great project - however long in the making!

This was my first image of a Balrog, Joan Wyatt's 'A Middle-Earth Album'. Very similar to the Bakshi Balrog. This picture spoilt the book a little bit, 'cus I saw it before I'd read that far in the book  :? So I was 'wonder when the monster will appear.' I saw the Ral Partha model very soon after (The model above) and again, not dissimilar in style to both illustrations. So yes, that's balrogs for me, wings, naked and lion-esque.

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hlnPTAaAfhI/V4oBndrinwI/AAAAAAAAauU/6GC-flZbMjQpuhP41w7FrKxzwREYLMbrgCKgB/s1600/balrog%2Bby%2Bjoan%2Bwyatt.jpg)

That's a really interesting image because it's one of very few winged balrogs to actually fit the description in the text. Something I like about older Middle-earth illustrations and miniatures is that you can see that the artists have gone back to the source rather than relying on other people's interpretations. One example would be the Asgard and Ral Partha not-Isengarders having the S-rune on their helmets; another is this balrog with its mane and wings that can actually be spread from wall to wall in a huge chamber. I love the slab-laying trolls too!

(For what it's worth - i.e. nothing! - I'm a no-winger myself  But the picture I get in my head from reading the text would be almost impossible to replicate in miniature. My favourite balrog illustration is the Ian Miller one in the Tolkien Bestiary, with the wingless John Blanche one - a White Dwarf cover? - close behind. For miniatures, the Ral Partha one ties with classic Citadel Fiend Factory fellow, and those both have wings!)

I had seen some of those Joan Wyatt illustrations a long time ago, but I'd completely forgotten about them. They're lovely.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Hobgoblin on March 15, 2023, 01:05:06 PM
Actually, Joan Wyatt's orcs have quite an Oathmark look to them:

(https://www.councilofelrond.com/wp-content/uploads/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/illustrations/jwyatt/jwyatt-orcs.jpg)
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Aethelwulf on March 15, 2023, 03:23:34 PM
I've also wanted to do a first age version of MESBG but the amount of troops, Balrogs, and dragons I would need for each side was rather prohibitive.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Daeothar on March 15, 2023, 03:30:19 PM
You can always do a skirmish...  ;)
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Ceepee on March 15, 2023, 03:55:03 PM
Hi Nick

beautiful models.

Have you considered Reaper rules; very much more unit based but with room for heroes.
Quite flexible for unit design so you can do your own thing; like I do.

Thes are my LoTR rules since Noah was a nipper, uses percentage dice if that suits.

If you want to have a look let me know as I think I have a PDF somewhere

Colin
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DivisMal on March 15, 2023, 06:19:05 PM
I can tell you: 1977.

Thanks. Was it part of a certain Tolkien calendar?

Great project - however long in the making!

That's a really interesting image because it's one of very few winged balrogs to actually fit the description in the text. Something I like about older Middle-earth illustrations and miniatures is that you can see that the artists have gone back to the source rather than relying on other people's interpretations. One example would be the Asgard and Ral Partha not-Isengarders having the S-rune on their helmets; another is this balrog with its mane and wings that can actually be spread from wall to wall in a huge chamber. I love the slab-laying trolls too!


So true. And it’s become much worse since the movies (or rather the two artists responsible for the aesthetic in the movie). Their influence on the visualization of Middle Earth has sadly been immense and thereby marginalized other interpretations (often much closer to the holy text itself).

I’ve become tired by this an tremendously enjoy these older pictures.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: tikitang on March 15, 2023, 06:24:25 PM
Was it part of a certain Tolkien calendar?

Yes it was! And, according to this webpage (https://www.comicconnect.com/item/632919?tzf=1#description), the original sold for $55000!

I tremendously enjoy these older pictures.

I like older pictures myself for the same reasons, but I have to say, while Joan Wyatt does have some great ones, she's also got some duds as well, such as this rendition of Shelob:

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/df3c8e76226f9ed6d98589558ff17567/02fbe36e881019bb-0c/s1280x1920/493e62475f699ffdbf943c393f6477dc773381e1.jpg)

The face reminds me of a lobster from The Muppets!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Daeothar on March 16, 2023, 09:38:37 AM
That is a face only a spider-mother could love...  lol
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Aethelwulf on March 16, 2023, 11:37:23 AM
Yes it was! And, according to this webpage (https://www.comicconnect.com/item/632919?tzf=1#description), the original sold for $55000!

I like older pictures myself for the same reasons, but I have to say, while Joan Wyatt does have some great ones, she's also got some duds as well, such as this rendition of Shelob:

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/df3c8e76226f9ed6d98589558ff17567/02fbe36e881019bb-0c/s1280x1920/493e62475f699ffdbf943c393f6477dc773381e1.jpg)

The face reminds me of a lobster from The Muppets!

Wow :o :o that is intensely creepy actually lol
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: tikitang on March 16, 2023, 04:00:08 PM
Wyatt seems to have a trend for extreme horizontal elongation of large monsters, despite an otherwise well proportioned and nicely composed background!

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/a4/72/72a472051f039565808eeece45340fd7.jpg)


Anyway, apologies for hijacking this interesting thread with LOTR artwork commentary! I'll stop now!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DivisMal on March 16, 2023, 09:56:45 PM
I must say I found both pictures by Joan Wyatt pretty intense, and if nothing, at least original. I need to go back to the text, but iirc Toökien nowhere says Shelob is just a big spider like in the movies. Isn’t it rather suggested she’s a spiderlike monster?

This picture really gives me some great ideas for my version of Shelob/Ungoliath in my 15mm project. I need to get some more of Wyatt‘s work.

Thanks for derailing the thread and sharing those!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Hobgoblin on March 16, 2023, 10:18:26 PM
I must say I found both pictures by Joan Wyatt pretty intense, and if nothing, at least original. I need to go back to the text, but iirc Toökien nowhere says Shelob is just a big spider like in the movies. Isn’t it rather suggested she’s a spiderlike monster?

You're quite right - and note the description of the claws and horns; it looks like Wyatt was cleaving close to the text:

Quote
A little way ahead and to his left he saw suddenly, issuing from a black hole of shadow under the cliff, the most loathly shape that he had ever beheld, horrible beyond the horror of an evil dream. Most like a spider she was, but huger than the greatest hunting beasts, and more terrible than they because of the evil purpose in her remorseless eyes. Those same eyes that he had thought daunted and defeated, there they were lit with a fell light again, clustering in her out-thrust head. Great horns she had, and behind her short stalk-like neck was her huge swollen body, a vast bloated bag, swaying and sagging between her legs; its great bulk was black, blotched with livid marks, but the belly underneath was pale and luminous and gave forth a stench. Her legs were bent, with great knobbed joints high above her back, and hairs that stuck out like steel spines, and at each leg's end there was a claw.
As soon as she had squeezed her soft squelching body and its folded limbs out of the upper exit from her lair, she moved with a horrible speed, now running her creaking legs, now making a sudden bound."
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Daeothar on March 17, 2023, 09:01:45 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/a4/72/72a472051f039565808eeece45340fd7.jpg)

[DERAIL] Ah yes; the great flying beasts. In my young mind, before Jackson's imaginings, they were more like Pterodactyls. Or, at least, how those were depicted back in the early eighties...  ;) [/DERAIL]
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: tikitang on March 17, 2023, 10:54:54 AM
Bakshi was also my first introduction to the airborne Nazgul (and in fact LOTR in general). I remember this part was my favourite part of the film:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ds9ltexVYAYH7Wl.jpg)

Though far too brief!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DivisMal on March 17, 2023, 03:29:32 PM
You're quite right - and note the description of the claws and horns; it looks like Wyatt was cleaving close to the text:

That’s a brilliant find! Actually the picture is very close to the text. A great discovery! That’s what I hate about the movies (and before someone is insulted, I know it’s not the films but rather their omnipresence): everyone only has a single picture in his or her head. Early Tolkien art is really exciting.

I think I have an old RAFM model of a drider that fits that description perfectly. I just fear it might be too big for my 15mm project.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Sunjester on March 18, 2023, 09:00:05 AM
Thanks guys for reminding me of Joan Wyatt's art, I'd forgotten about her.

I am glad that I discovered The Lord of the Rings, and the assosciated artworks, back in the mid-1970s, rather than in today's Jackson/Lee/Howe dominated enviroment. Don't get me wrong, I like Alan Lee and John Howe's work, and I enjoyed Peter Jackson's films (when I disengaged the purist in my head).
But to me they were just another interpretation, amoung so many others I had seen before.

Apologies to Nick for continuing the derailment of his thread. It's looking good so far and I'm looking forward to seeing the progression. A good few years back we played a succession of large Tolkien battles, with the two of us pooling our ridiculously large 25/28mm fantasy collections. For one game we acheived 1000 orcs on the table, with not a single GW model in sight!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 20, 2023, 03:20:56 PM
I love the slab-laying trolls too!

They get missed out so often, especially by Jackson inspired artists.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 20, 2023, 03:22:47 PM
Actually, Joan Wyatt's orcs have quite an Oathmark look to them:

(https://www.councilofelrond.com/wp-content/uploads/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/illustrations/jwyatt/jwyatt-orcs.jpg)

That might be because I was part of the design team.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Hobgoblin on March 20, 2023, 10:42:26 PM
Aha! Good work, then - those helmets work so well in the Oathmark range!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 25, 2023, 02:07:57 PM
One of my ideas, not fully formed yet, is to have the armies of Morgoth slightly 'themed'.

It comes from reading the Silmarillion, not described specifically, but it's there, and that is different armies led by different characters.

So for example, the army that sacks Nargathrond is led by Glaurung the Dragon. The army based at Minas Tirith (V.1) is led by the Necromancer Sauron.

The pics below are my Glaurung and Sauron BTW.

As I said, I not fully thought these through, but an example would be Saurons army would include Werewolves, and therefore more Giant Wolves, Wolf Riders. It would also have vampires in, thinking of Thuringwethil and big S himself changing into one.

Glaurungs wouldn't have these, but maybe he'd have more 'raiding' lighter armed/ armoured Orcs to range across Beleriand.

The Balrogs would be another General type. They would include the biggest and best armoured Orcs, and the Troll Guards, along with maybe other lesser Maiar demon types.

A smaller just Orc army could be led by a lesser Maiar, in the Histories of Middle-Earth the notes suggest some famous Orc Captains are actually Maiar taking Orc form.

These are my first ideas, happy to hear peoples opinions.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: sir_shvantselot on March 25, 2023, 03:21:10 PM
That wingless dragon is the bees knees.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Plynkes on March 25, 2023, 05:31:47 PM
Oh yeah, nice.

You are right, Sauron in his Tol Sirion days needs to have a bunch of monstrous wolves in his posse.

Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: armchairgeneral on March 26, 2023, 04:17:35 PM
Surely First Age orcs would be a lot shorter than the Oathmark orcs?

For me the new Crusader goblins are nearer the mark if they had scimitars and helmets?

Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on March 26, 2023, 04:33:55 PM
Surely First Age orcs would be a lot shorter than the Oathmark orcs?

For me the new Crusader goblins are nearer the mark if they had scimitars and helmets?

Yes, I'm in fan mode here rather than North Star mode. When I say Orcs for my 1st Age project, I mean the Oathmark Goblins only. I agree, the Orcs are too tall for my Middle-Earth tastes. (They were never designed for it of course, Oathmark isn't a Middle-Earth range)
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on June 07, 2023, 01:40:38 PM
More Elves of Hithlum.

Painted by Andrew Taylor.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Pattus Magnus on June 07, 2023, 03:15:21 PM
Those look very sharp! I like the colour gradient on the shields and the colour palette overall.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Aethelwulf on June 07, 2023, 03:26:47 PM
Wonderful elves.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: voltan on June 07, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
I misread that as Elves on Helium...

Anyway, I love the design on the shields.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Aethelwulf on June 07, 2023, 06:54:27 PM
I misread that as Elves on Helium...


lol lol
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: sir_shvantselot on June 07, 2023, 09:34:18 PM
Like the shield transfers.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Melnibonean on June 07, 2023, 11:54:08 PM
 A great thread that I've only just found. I read all about your balrog. I had this figure back in the 80's and it was a very large figure for it's time. A friend of mine has all of my old D&D figures from Citadel, Asgard, Grenadier, Ral Partha and all the rest. He rescued them when I joined the army and has them stashed away in foam padded biscuit tins somewhere in his garage. It would be great to break them out again one day and see what's hidden away.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 08, 2023, 07:21:41 AM
Great project!

Lots of scope for 'heraldry' based on the baddie divisions you describe - wolf and dragon emblems, and so on.

Yes, I'm in fan mode here rather than North Star mode. When I say Orcs for my 1st Age project, I mean the Oathmark Goblins only. I agree, the Orcs are too tall for my Middle-Earth tastes. (They were never designed for it of course, Oathmark isn't a Middle-Earth range)

Don't forget their heads and arms, though - you can make good use of those on goblin and dwarf bodies for that large-headed, ape-armed look.

Have you considered interpolating some of the earlier versions of the stories - like the mechanical dragons of The Book of Lost Tales? They're perhaps not congruent with the published Silmarillion, but they'd make a great modelling project!

(https://preview.redd.it/5w4v3bsrbm131.jpg?auto=webp&s=317c4fc7ccdb588bfae8591c37d252468dc39d8a)
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on June 08, 2023, 08:12:20 AM
So much to love in this thread! Inspirational work.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: blacksoilbill on June 08, 2023, 12:05:15 PM
Those elves look very nice.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Daeothar on June 09, 2023, 10:18:05 AM
I can't get over the awesomeness and also utter silliness of that illustration.

Seriously; look at those walls, with parapets taller than the occupants and the impossibility to move that huge pile of artificial dragon even an inch closer to the walls (did they build it in situ? Obviously the elves would have been unaware, as they can't look over the walls! lol ).

I love it :D
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on June 10, 2023, 07:47:20 PM
Great project!

Lots of scope for 'heraldry' based on the baddie divisions you describe - wolf and dragon emblems, and so on.

Don't forget their heads and arms, though - you can make good use of those on goblin and dwarf bodies for that large-headed, ape-armed look.

Have you considered interpolating some of the earlier versions of the stories - like the mechanical dragons of The Book of Lost Tales? They're perhaps not congruent with the published Silmarillion, but they'd make a great modelling project!


You are right about mix and matching the kits. Kev Dallimore made Uruks using Oathmark Dwarf bodies with orc & goblin heads/ arms etc. Perfect, cus as we know, the very biggest orcs/ uruks were only man-high.

I'm not going to do the Gondolin regiments. Graham Green has done it, made a unit of all the Elves listed in the Early Gondolin story, fantastic work. I asked if he could leave me them in his will  lol
I really find it hard to visualise those mechanical monsters, the illustration isn't a good rep of them, if I recall they were serpent/ wyrm - like, and they reared up to disgorge the Orcs over the wall?
What I do like, and might take from the Lost Tales, is the sacking of Menegroth. Have you read that? A mixed force of Dwarves, small number of High Elf allies and Goblin mercenaries armed by the dwarves attack & sack the Wood-Elf kingdom. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Aethelwulf on June 11, 2023, 06:56:36 AM

I really find it hard to visualise those mechanical monsters, the illustration isn't a good rep of them, if I recall they were serpent/ wyrm - like, and they reared up to disgorge the Orcs over the wall?

The mechanical dragons crushed the walls, then when they where inside Gondolin the orcs came out of hatches in the dragons.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 11, 2023, 10:41:28 AM
What I do like, and might take from the Lost Tales, is the sacking of Menegroth. Have you read that? A mixed force of Dwarves, small number of High Elf allies and Goblin mercenaries armed by the dwarves attack & sack the Wood-Elf kingdom. Brilliant.

Yes, indeed - and very Oathmark! I reread it last night - my decades-old memory of it was solely as the underpinning of that bit in The Hobbit where the narrator says that "wicked Dwarves" have sometimes made alliances with Goblins.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: steeldragon on June 11, 2023, 02:59:11 PM

As I said, I not fully thought these through, but an example would be Saurons army The Balrogs would be another General type. They would include the biggest and best armoured Orcs, and the Troll Guards, along with maybe other lesser Maiar demon types.

A smaller just Orc army could be led by a lesser Maiar, in the Histories of Middle-Earth the notes suggest some famous Orc Captains are actually Maiar taking Orc form.

These are my first ideas, happy to hear peoples opinions.

You need to convince Joe to stat Balrogs and some lesser Maiar demons for Oathmark so I can plan my sixth army XD

Great models.

Andres
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on June 11, 2023, 07:01:11 PM
Yes, indeed - and very Oathmark! I reread it last night - my decades-old memory of it was solely as the underpinning of that bit in The Hobbit where the narrator says that "wicked Dwarves" have sometimes made alliances with Goblins.

He also says about the War of the Last Alliance that few Dwarves fought on either side. Either Side?! Sauron's Dwarves? He does say Durins folk only fought with the goodies.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Daeothar on June 11, 2023, 08:50:36 PM
So Tolkienesque Chaos Dwarves?

I never caught on to that one, but I suppose it makes sense somewhere; that goldlust can be manipulated easily enough I reckon.

I wonder if anyone ever gave any thought as to their looks...
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on June 12, 2023, 08:58:07 AM
I don't think they are necessarily dressed evil. In one of the Histories of Middle -Earth, all seven houses of the Dwarves are listed. Durins Folk are called Long beards, for obvious reasons, maybe some of the other houses have a specific look:
Longbeards, Durin's Folk, originally from Gundabad.
Firebeards and Broadbeams, originally from the Blue Mountains.
Ironfists and Stiffbeards, originated in the East.
Blacklocks and Stonefoots, originated in the East.

I've seen an illustration of the Blacklocks where they have ringed Assyrian-style beards, that was adopted for Chaos Dwarves I believe. Small group of Chaos Dwarves with your Sauron army it is then.

Gold-Lust. I picked up on a small writing about this in Tolkiens Histories of Middle-Earth. Part of the reason Morgoth was trapped in Angband, sat on his throne sending out his evil creatures to do his work was that he had poured so much of his power and malice into the substance of Middle-Earth to dominate it, he was weakened by it. Some substances took more of his malice than others, and one that particularly took more was gold.

It's a fascinating thought, that in Middle-Earth the lust for gold was partly because the substance itself has an evil and malice to it, perhaps that's why the One Ring was as strong as it was. 
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Daeothar on June 12, 2023, 09:36:47 AM
That's some interesting info indeed.

I've always found the Assyrian look that GW first gave their Chaos Dwarves in the early nineties(?) very distinctive and characterful and it's my favourite rendition of them. Although one can assume any Middle Earthern ones would do with (slightly?) less ridiculous headgear ;)

Considering a lot of Sauron's allies came  from the East and South, it's not beyond reason to assume dwarven allies, either believers or bought, would have an Eastern look to them and an Assyrian theme would be suitable here as well I reckon.

The notion that gold was tainted from the beginning actually makes sense and neatly explains the vile acts people would commit to obtain (or keep) it.

I really should pick up and read Histories of Middle Earth!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on June 12, 2023, 05:13:26 PM
I really should pick up and read Histories of Middle Earth!

Beware, there's something like 12 books, and most are close to gobble-de-Asian. But there's some pure gems in there

Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Daeothar on June 13, 2023, 09:43:35 AM
I just looked them up and I've actually read The Book of Lost Tales way back in highschool, but I can't recall much of it. I suspect much of it went over my head at the time, as I'm no native English speaker.

But interest is now piqued, so I'll probably make the dive into this rabbit hole sooner rather than later...  ::)
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on June 16, 2023, 05:30:00 PM
Two new photos of the latest Elves, the Noldor of Hithlum.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: LouieN on June 16, 2023, 07:55:17 PM
Well done
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: steeldragon on June 22, 2023, 06:58:15 AM
They look really nice.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Daeothar on June 22, 2023, 07:54:58 AM
Pretty, pretty elfses...
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on June 23, 2023, 09:04:15 PM
You've seen them before, but I mustered the Elves for a photo shoot yesterday.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: steeldragon on June 23, 2023, 10:30:53 PM
They look great all together.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Melnibonean on June 23, 2023, 10:48:30 PM
Beautiful work. Both my own elves and their enemies are growing again at the moment. The beginnings of a larger dwarven force also landed on my doorstep earlier this week.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Olsson on July 02, 2023, 10:22:28 AM
A terrific looking host. I've always been impressed with people who go out of their way to create their own versions of various universes, discarding the mass-market versions. It makes for a more distinct and personal representation, and I personally always look for what makes one force have personality over another. They sometimes run the risk of losing that "on sight" recognition, but I think you manage to maintain a distinct Middle Earth aesthetic. For those who are familiar with the written works at the very least.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on July 02, 2023, 03:46:00 PM
Cheers
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on September 22, 2023, 03:38:03 PM
It's a slow burner, but the project continues.
2 more units of Fingolfins warriors.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: DalyDR on September 22, 2023, 03:53:04 PM
Those look very nice! 
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Pattus Magnus on September 22, 2023, 04:14:25 PM
Beautiful work!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on September 22, 2023, 07:24:40 PM
Nice work.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on September 23, 2023, 01:52:00 PM
Going off project for a moment, it's a life-long interest to me in what inspired Tolkien. He was so original and so influential to everything that's followed, it's great to find the sources. He gives clues of course, but all of them never quite reflect what he turned them into.

Anyway, I came across this early 20th C artist the other day, Sidney Sime, and his book cover illustrations were very similar to Tolkien's sketches. So I wondered if he was an inspiration to a young JRRT, and then I found this!
If that is not Morgoth and Ungoliant, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: General Lee on September 23, 2023, 10:20:09 PM
I would love to know where those elf shield designs are from. Are they decals? It all looks so good!
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: nicknorthstar on September 24, 2023, 12:05:09 PM
It was complicated. We painted a copy of Tolkien's Fingolfin heraldry, shrunk it to size and then printed it onto a transfer sheet.
Title: Re: Nick's 1st Age Project
Post by: LouieN on September 24, 2023, 04:30:24 PM
Great Elves.  The army looks good.