Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: flatpack on March 29, 2023, 06:46:56 PM
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Today we played through our first game of 7dttrr.
Based on the invasion of Lebanon 1982.
We had a small force of Israeli troops, up against a small force of Syrian troops.
Figures were skytrex action 200 10mm figures.
The command allocation made us really think. Should I use it here or there ? Should I hold some back, just in case ? Nice system.
Plan was for the Syrians to keep control of the two villages.
(https://i.postimg.cc/B6TnQJwR/D2-CAA865-AAFC-442-B-8-A84-5-B5-B4-E4649-A4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2b5D0NYx)
Syrian T62’s pass thro the first village, heading towards the second village and the oncoming Israeli troops.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4dFdFKT6/03-F54-CEE-3-CF1-4-DD7-A157-CD0-FB0-E0-E451.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMVqnpHH)
Israeli tanks hold their positions and take out the Syrian tanks as they approach.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cCgHqssV/1-A90-E695-1-E16-43-E1-B782-3131-C7-AD34-E6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnbyWGn5)
Not the best day for Syrian tankers. 2 out of 3 down.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nhvXccvx/2215-A947-CEBC-4-C25-9859-E7-BF7-FCFF689.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXtD2nyZ)
Syrians take out an Israeli Isherman.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NM0F46ZG/6007038-A-13-E2-4-B56-B18-F-004-B692-BE623.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBt3fhVb)
Israeli M113 APC’s head to the hills, whilst the tanks hold off the Syrians.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rwLpbX7P/72-F6081-B-8-E6-E-4-B86-88-F1-D5-D10-A453417.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w70HyPqX)
Israeli armour advances on the Syrians who have moved their APC’s towards the second village and de-bussed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ydSdt162/566-BA80-A-57-BE-4-B38-8-F9-F-63-E0-BC0667-E8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7GwwTy2N)
It’s all over.
The Syrian infantry HAVE taken the second village, but how long are they likely to hold it, with no armour support, their transport being shot to pieces, and Israeli armour fast outflanking them. An Israeli victory is called.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgXgrzt0/C811409-B-7-DE0-4-A35-8-D91-92-AB17-BC809-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QF734Mgb)
Good fun.
Some good mechanisms.
Didn’t take too long to pick up.
Made players want to buy different armies to paint and use…gulp.
I can see one of our number trying these rules out for the Iran Iraq war in the coming months :o
Many thanks to has.been for umpiring.
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Looks fun fellas!
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Nice looking game. What size forces did you use, and did you adjust anything as using 1/200?
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Nice looking game.
All Flatpack's work
What size forces did you use,
Israel = 4 tanks (Sherman M51)/ 3 APCs (M113 Nagmash)carrying an Inf
section each /1Command APC (M3 half Track)
Syria =3 tanks (T62)/ 3 APC (BTR-60PB) carrying an inf. section each/ I Command APC.
and did you adjust anything as using 1/200?
No. We left the movement
ranges in inches & there is (almost) no firing ranges.
My pictures
566 = Israeli armour happilly bowling along the road.
557 = The nearest village to them is marked on the maps as '2'
558 = Meanwhile Syrian armour (faster) speeds through the other village ('1')
571 = 'KABOOM !!!' First blood to the IDF
572 = This also gives the nearest tank a morale point.
573 = Syrians return fire & blow up an Isherman, again...KABOOM!
574 = Syrians advance both the remaining tanks & also advance their APCs
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575 = Another Syrian tank is hit.
576 = The one remaining Syrian tank, makes use of the hill to hide its advance from the IDF
577/8 = BTR60s make a death or glory dash to Village '2' & some absolute rubbish Israeli
shooting lets them !
579 = They are almost there when one Sherman M51 manages to get a shot in...'FOOM!'
(not as potent as a 'Kaboom' which lets some VERY shaken Syrian Inf debus from
the burning wreck.
580 = In the distance you can see the Tank 'Wot dun de damage'
581 = Syrian Inf dig in at Village '2'
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582 = Last of the Syrian T62s goes the same way as the others.
583 = The overall situation. Not looking good for Syria
584 = The an APC gets hit.
585 = It is almost over, so Bob races his commander forward from his safety at the rear,
'For the victory news-reels' :D
586 = With the Syrian inf. in a desperate situation, we call it a victory for the Israeli troops.
Camera-men take pictures of the destruction wrought on the Syrians.
A nice simple set of rule. Acid test question, 'Would you play them again?' = a resounding...
YES from all three of us.
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Very nice looking game.
I liked the photos that look like pics taken from a plane.
Then I saw the second set of photos, really cool .
I am impressed.
Thanks for sharing.
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Has.been, thanks for the answers. I game SDTTRR in 15mm. I love the rules but find a 6 x 4' table can look quite crowded in that scale. However I must remain focussed. I have European 1980s "moderns" in 15mm for SDTTRR, 6mm for PSC's NORTHAG ( and soon CENTAG) and 3mm for "Cold War Commander". That said I don't have Arab-Israeli yet and those Red 3 Miniatures do look very nice....
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. That said I don't have Arab-Israeli yet and those Red 3 Miniatures do look very nice....
I agree that Red 3 do a lovely range of vehicles, but just to clarify, all the miniatures used in this game are Skytrex Action 200.
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Flat pack , got it. I have the Skytrex Action 200 Vietnem range bought nearly 30 years ago. Some are lovely models, others much cruder. Shame they don't mix with more recent 10mm ranges. For Arab-Israeli I might look at Pendraken or Red 3 despite them being far more expensive.
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Flat pack , got it. I have the Skytrex Action 200 Vietnem range bought nearly 30 years ago. Some are lovely models, others much cruder. Shame they don't mix with more recent 10mm ranges. For Arab-Israeli I might look at Pendraken or Red 3 despite them being far more expensive.
Completely agree.
One of our gang is now talking of getting some Jordanian kit to use.
I’m saying go for Pendragon or Red3.
Yes they’ll be larger, but they’ll have more detail, be fun/easier to paint, and across a battlefield they won’t be combined with my skytrex figures, just fighting against them.
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This post may have inspired me to seriously look at 10mmMiddle East. The Yom Kippur war might be too much of Turkey Shoot but is well documented. I think the "Peace in Galilee" 1982 campaign offers more variety plus early Merkavas. Less detail avaliable and slightly more morally dubious IMHO....
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Glad to hear that 7DttR is a fun set of rules. I really wanted to like Team Yankee, but after just one game, the lining up of units on both sides and then having at eachother really disappointed me. Too bad I had previously already invested in the basics of two armies ::)
This gives me good hope my 15mm Dutch and Russians can be used with enjoyable rules after all... :)
Great looking table and units btw 8)
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Daeothar, I've been saved from gaming 1982 in 10mm due to no-one producing decent Israeli kit. I have 15mm Dutch and Russkies and they play well in SDttRR. Starting again today I would use use 10mm but there is still more kit available in 15mm. Go for it. The secret is lots of terrain to break lines-of-sight and force people to manoeuvre.
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So yesterday we played our second ever game of 7dttrr.
This scenario was from the 1973 Yom Kippur war.
The Syrians had attacked the Israelis in the Golan Heights.
The Israelis had driven off that Syrian attack, and then gone on the attack themselves, entering Syria.
Arab nations were not happy with this, so sent expeditionary forces to counter the Israeli attack.
This battle sees Israeli forces, outstretching themselves.
As they try to enter a Syrian town, they encounter Jordanian and Iraqi forces, who are counter attacking.
The battlefield.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9F0Jj2Md/IMG-4612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fxppLDX)
Israeli forces on the attack.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zfKxPkf4/IMG-4657.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f3W7Vmmv)
Iraqi forces join battle.
Top right of picture.
(https://i.postimg.cc/V6FDzLnR/IMG-4659.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcVQ2mSc)
Jordanian forces join battle.
Outflanking the Israelis on the road.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLrrZ1tr/IMG-4660.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rKWN38q5)
Israeli lead units take a pounding.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2jwKDTxD/IMG-4662.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDhBR2XH)
The Israeli reserves now arrive.
Sherman’s will do a job…
(https://i.postimg.cc/RF1bqT5w/IMG-4664.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R6FTDK00)
Sherman’s do a job, taking out Jordanian armour.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyB2fTbL/IMG-4663.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9wwYW2Z5)
Israeli APC’s bring their infantry forward into the olive groves.
(https://i.postimg.cc/g0Z7bWgS/IMG-4666.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wt92DS8L)
More Israeli reserve armour commits to battle.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qvYFFRx6/IMG-4667.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKVQLTST)
The battle rages, with Jordanian troops holding the left flank, and Iraqi forces holding the right.
I think it’s time for the Israeli to retire with a blooded nose.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5yxKzFbT/IMG-4669.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/njP1brsG)
Game concluded at this point.
7dttrr rules worked well again.
The method of using the blue and red tokens that you see on the table, made it a game of “cost management”.
When I say “cost management” I’m talking about when you should spend your tokens ?
Spend them all early and go on the attack, or hold some in reserve to counter any attacks on yourselves ?
Enjoyable couple of hours.
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as the lead Israeli, i.e. the 'Bloody Nose' I really enjoyed the game.
I think we picked up more of the rules this time. It was suggested
that next time we actually get the infantry involved.
Meanwhile some more pictures.
6192= Reach this town & we break through the Syrian lines.
6193= We pass the burning wreckage of Syrian Tanks. This will be easy.
6194= Heavy, very heavy pounding from the right flank. Iraqi armour!!!!
6195= ...and Jordanians to our left! Where have they all come from?
(Please don't say Iraq & Jordan)
6197= One of the pesky Iraqi tanks, skulking behind some rocks.
6198= Take cover!
6199 & 6200 = Israeli infantry move to take up defensive position in an Olive grove.
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I should point out:-
The Iraqis were all the work of Ian (Westbury)
The Israelis all by Bob (Flatpack) &
JC fielded the Jordanians. I know it was 'Jordan's' first fight, while the
Israelis (Bob's) have been around some time.
Ian's are recent, but I don't know if they have previously taken the field.
I have a few (very few) still unpainted troops.
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Also worth noting the low walls (around the Olive Grove & other places).
Bob scratch built them using bits left over from MDF kits. Smart lad is our Bob (Flatpack)
:D
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Looked like a good game ! :D
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Yup and great looking models!
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Chaps, more inspirational photos. I've resisted Arab-Israeli to date having concentrated on my 1/300 1980s Cold War and kick-starting my 1/200 Skytrex 'Nam. I really fancy 1982 and "Peace in Galilee" but no-one seems to produce the Merkava or Blazer-equipped M60 which I would want for my Israelis.
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Chaps, more inspirational photos. I've resisted Arab-Israeli to date having concentrated on my 1/300 1980s Cold War and kick-starting my 1/200 Skytrex 'Nam. I really fancy 1982 and "Peace in Galilee" but no-one seems to produce the Merkava or Blazer-equipped M60 which I would want for my Israelis.
Skytrex 200 produce both those tanks.
You can see the blazer-equipped M60’s on on latest game photos.
They also definitely do the Merkava too, as I have a couple of them.
Hope this helps.
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More photo's from the game.
Iraqi infantry seize the village/town
Juicy targets on the road
Burning Israeli tanks lol
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Flat pack, I should have added that I want to use either Pendraken or Red 2 models. I find many of the Skytrex models a bit too crude for my taste. Red 2 might make them eventually but unfortunately no time soon.
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Flat pack, I should have added that I want to use either Pendraken or Red 2 models. I find many of the Skytrex models a bit too crude for my taste. Red 2 might make them eventually but unfortunately no time soon.
Ok, I understand.
I also find a big scale difference between skytrex and the other two manufacturers TBH.
I have a large collection of Middle East models from Skytrex, that I’ve collected over the years.
With my mates now onboard with purchasing Middle East armies to fight against, they are buying from Red3 or Pendraken. These two manufacturers are decidedly larger models than Skytrex.
I’m sure if you dropped a note to the newer manufacturers, they may pick upon the idea of making the models you are looking for ?
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More photo's from the game.
Iraqi infantry seize the village/town
Juicy targets on the road
Burning Israeli tanks lol
Ian,
Thanks for adding the photos of the Israeli scrapyard lol lol lol
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What went wrong there? Simple overconfidence in their armour on the part of the Israelis?
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Flat Pack, I have masses of Skytrex for both WW2 and Vietnam and they were good "in their day". I actually did as you suggest and dropped a note to Red 3 asking about Merkavas and M60/Blazer. Not a positive reply. I guess they all need to concentrate on financially viable projects.
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Flat Pack, I have masses of Skytrex for both WW2 and Vietnam and they were good "in their day". I actually did as you suggest and dropped a note to Red 3 asking about Merkavas and M60/Blazer. Not a positive reply. I guess they all need to concentrate on financially viable projects.
Could I suggest you drop the same note to Pendraken ?
I notice they already do quite a few Egyptian/Syrian special vehicles/tanks for the Middle East wars.
They also already have an M60, that they could use as the base model for the M60/Blazer, so they are half way there with that one.
They would just need to model the Merkava from scratch.
Might be worth a try ?
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You might also try Butlers Printed Models.
https://www.butlersprintedmodels.co.uk/1/200-scale/post-ww2/israeli/merkava-1-200-scale.html
If the size/scale isn't quite right he will adjust.
He was very helpful with my modern French.
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Great game reports. Well done!
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Flat Pack, I'll drop Pendraken a line but not too hopeful as they have many other "irons in the fire" plus they would also need to produce infantry for 1982 as they look quite different from Yom Kippur and in 10mm ( unlike 6mm) you can tell them apart.
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Flat Pack, I'll drop Pendraken a line but not too hopeful as they have many other "irons in the fire" plus they would also need to produce infantry for 1982 as they look quite different from Yom Kippur and in 10mm ( unlike 6mm) you can tell them apart.
Hope you don’t mind, but I’ve got to pick up a couple of items from Pendraken this week, as I’m holidaying quite close to them.
I dropped Leon at Pendraken an order and asked the question about the two tanks that you were asking about. Here is his answer,
“ we don’t have any plans for those two vehicles at the moment, but the M60 could be an easy addition in the future. The Merkava would be a long way off though unfortunately as we’ve still got a lot of US/Brit/Soviet kit to do before we hit that next generation of MBTs in the 80’s, things like the Merkava, Abrams, Leopard, etc”
All I would say, is keep asking about the M60 blazer and it might happen ?
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Flat Pack, thanks for asking the question. Not surprised by his answer as I guess post Yom-Kippur Arab-Israeli probably of minor interest. I was more surprised by Red3's reply as he is more of a moderns specialist.
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You might also try Butlers Printed Models.
Quote
https://www.butlersprintedmodels.co.uk/1/200-scale/post-ww2/israeli/merkava-1-200-scale.html
If the size/scale isn't quite right he will adjust.
He was very helpful with my modern French.
Is their Merkava no use?