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Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Argonor on November 27, 2009, 12:46:48 PM
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I have seen pictures of the German MP38 and MP40, but if my mind is not playing tricks on me (it might), I have seen a similar weapon with the magazine pointing out to the side instead of down.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or is it just one of those misconceptions brought about by some low budget movie or perhaps a comic book way back in my childhood?
I'm not much into WWII when it comes to weapons and other hardware, but I suspect some of you in here to have a very thorough knowledge of such matters... ;)
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I think you are thinking of the classic Bergman MP18...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Bergmann_MP18.1.JPG/300px-Bergmann_MP18.1.JPG)
...,which was one of the first subs used in any scale. Developed for storm troopers to use in trench raiding. Banned by the Treaty of Versaille, copied widely and used all over the world during the inter war years.
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MP32 and MP35 as well...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/bergmann_mp32.jpg)
Lanchester (Royal Navy SMG from WWII)...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/lanchester1.jpg)
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So they *do* have the magazine to the right and left both... I've been wondering about that.
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They don't really look like the classic MP40 though, do they? So maybe he was thinking of something else?
Rather similar to the wooden stock version of the series, though. But you don't often see them...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/800px-German_MP_wooden_stock.jpg)
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It may very well have been the Bergmann that I vaguely recall. I must admit that the main feature I remeber was the magazine - I can't remember if the handle was 'rifle'-shaped or a pistol handle.
I'm not much of a weapons afficionado, can barely distinguish between automated and non-automated weapons (and with modern handguns not even that...) lol
Thanks for the answers, now I know my brain is not completely gone, yet....
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British Sten Gun?
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/StenGunMark2.jpg)
Classic gun of the French Resistance and the Tommies? (Maybe not as fancy as the MP40, but at least you can easily fire it lying down!)
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Sterling? British post-war SMG (and also starred as the Imperial Stormtrooper blaster in Star Wars)...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/sterling_smg_07.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/sterling01.jpg)
Phased out after poor performance against Daleks and Cybermen. ;)
Edit: Star Wars version...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Stormtrooper-blaster-l.jpg)
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I'm pretty sure that it was typical WWII Germans I saw with the gun... It may have been late WWI ones, though - the style of the helmet makes them easy to confuse a worn down memory like mine...
There's no doubt that I've also seen the Sten Gun used in some movies (and, knowing Hollywood, I may een have seen Germans armed with it).
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Dylan, are these all from you private collection? :o
Better keep an eye on our friend here, fellows, lest he should snap.
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I know there was one, however I have no idea of the name. It was only used in small numbers mainly with security personal. Gee, I used to jnow it about 28 years ago when these things did matter to me...
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The MkII STEN (and I think MkIII) could also be fitted with a pistol grip, instead of the more usual skeleton butt.
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Maybe it was a MP34?
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Maybe
there was a Bergman prototype made by Schmeisser that quite resembled the MP36 and later models, but with the magazine well to the side.
Don't know if it was called MP 34 or not, but it was not taken into large production because of the eypensive machined parts. Don't know about production numbers.
No pictures however.
How about the SMG issued to paratroopers? That one had definetly the mag to the side.
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How about the SMG issued to paratroopers? That one had definetly the mag to the side.
That would be the FG42 - more of an LMG than an SMG.
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I think you are thinking of the FG42. That more of an early assault rifle since it has selective fire and smaller calibre bullets.
Bah. What Moose said.
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actually not - no way mistaking the early assault rifle for a SMG
but it could be the FJ SMG I recall is rather the italian Beretta one issued
ah here:
MP 36, prototype
Mag well canted 30° to the left
http://www.smallarmsreview.com/january.htm (http://www.smallarmsreview.com/january.htm)
(http://www.smallarmsreview.com/mp1.jpg)
maybe this one?
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Maybe
there was a Bergman prototype made by Schmeisser that quite resembled the MP36 and later models, but with the magazine well to the side.
Don't know if it was called MP 34 or not, but it was not taken into large production because of the eypensive machined parts. Don't know about production numbers.
The SMG officially designated the MP 34 was built by Steyr rather than Bergmann, but it ressembled all the other MP 18 derivatives, more or less...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/mp34_4.jpg)
MP 34
Bergmann also had a gun called the MP 34, it eventually became the official MP 35, which again looks just like all these other confusing Bergmann-types, rather than like an MP38...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/bergmann_mp35_2.jpg)
MP 35
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maybe the Schmeisser MP28/II ?
used in the Belgian army
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:D a whole lot of SMG to match a memory :D
the most interesting part for me is how many actual SMG a weapon with wooden stock, barrel mantle and side mag can represent on a model
thx - many interesting contributions :)
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There were certainly copies of the Sten (e.g. the Gerät Potsdam) made by the Germans btw! However the 'Bergmann' is the most copied side loader and has been used in many movies; the 'Mummy Returns' and 'Biggles' for example.
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If the troops were German, and from the weapon description, it sounds more like the Bergmann or the Schmeisser made version thereof. The box magazine version. The version with the snail drum mag was issued to the stormtroopers of WWI. After the mp38 was issued to the army, the Bergmanns were phased out from frontline use and many of them were issued to Polizei/anti partisan formations. There are photos of polizei troops using them during the Warsaw uprising. A lot of confusion arises from the fact that Allied material constantly identified the mp 38 and mp40 as a schmeisser, when in fact they were designed and made by ERMA, The key differences being the absence of a wooden stock, replaced by a folding metal stock, and the increased use of stamped metal parts. Although the mp 38 had Bakelite grips on the pistol grip, these were phased out with the mp40. It sounds as if the picture was too early to be the fg42 or even a sten.
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I think you are thinking of the FG42. That more of an early assault rifle since it has selective fire and smaller calibre bullets.
Bah. What Moose said.
Actually the FG 42 fired full calibre (7.92) bullets as opposed to the MP 44 which fired kurz (7.92)or 'short' bullets,and the SMGs mentioned which pistol calibre bullets,generally 9mm.