Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => The Lead Painters' League => Season 4 => Topic started by: Prof.Witchheimer on January 24, 2010, 12:51:50 AM
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The bonus themes will be:
Round 1 – The Savage Sword of...
..Conan the Barbarian!
Paint five or more Barbarians or other peoples of Conan's world (Serpent Men, Black Kingdoms, Aquilonia etc.) and get 10 extra bonus points. Or paint some Barbarians or other peoples of Conan's world on Horseback and get 15 bonus points. Other animal mounts (sable tiger, lizards, whatever) will be permitted.
Round 5 – Zombies
Paint five or more Zombies (Sci-fi, Near future, Victorian, Old West, etc.) and get 10 extra bonus points.
Paint five and more Zombies and a team of five or more intrepid adventurers figthing against zombies and get 20 bonus points
Round 10 – Victorian Sci-Fi
Paint a team of five or more victorian Sci-Fi adventurers (humans, martians etc.) and get 10 bonus points
Paint a team of five or more victorian Sci-Fi adventurers (humans, martians etc.) and a small vehicle (a car, a tank, a small boat, etc.) and get 15 bonus points.
Paint a team of five or more victorian Sci-Fi adventurers (humans, martians etc.) and a small vehicle (a car, a tank, a small boat, etc.) and a large vehicle (aeronef, terranef, submarine, gun boat, etc.) and get 25 bonus points.
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Do Barsoomian Martians count as VSF figures for the purposes of the bonus round? If so, how large does a Barsoomian flyer have to be to count as a large vehicle...?
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How barbaric should the barbarian horsemen be for Round one? Would wild-eyed Cossacks or Samurai cavalry be considered suitably barbaric, or is this really limited to bare-chested Conan-type cavalry...?
What about suitably barbaric fantasy cavalry (Goblin Wolf Riders, Wood Elf Wild Riders, Centaurs, etc.)?
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It just a suggestion for the next LPLs or a constructive criticism if you like, but it would be nice to have at least one of the 3 bonus rounds with a more historical theme… whatever that might be...
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It just a suggestion for the next LPLs or a constructive criticism if you like, but it would be nice to have at least one of the 3 bonus rounds with a more historical theme… whatever that might be...
The previous LPL had Germans, cavalry & "Lost World" as it's three bonus rounds, so two out of three were generally historical.
The VSF loons will argue that VSF is "generally historical", of course, but they're loons. Steam-powered, rivetted loons, at that. ;)
My very personal gripe is that none of the three bonus rounds falls into any of my areas of interest. This leaves me with a bit of a dilemma with regard to doing LPL4 or sitting it out... but that's just me.
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The VSF loons will argue that VSF is "generally historical", of course, but they're loons. Steam-powered, rivetted loons, at that. ;)
I think "vaguely historical" is more apt for us :D
I don't believe I have any Barbarian figures or a use for any currently, but I'll just paint something else.... Yes, that means I'm actually going to try and join in this year!
Even if you don't do the bonus themes, you'll still score points based on the painted figs you enter for that round. For those painters with a real hope of getting a medal I doubt it's going to affect them that much.
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No problem, guys. We still could switch from the Barbarian round to a historical one. Just make some suggestions.
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Depends on how you read "Barbarian" IMHO.
Lots of historical barbarians... just ask the Romans! 8)
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I personally don't think you should change, Alex. None of the bonus categories particularly are suits my preferences, historical or not, and that has happened quite a few times before. I never saw that as a restriction but as part of the challenge, as this must be true for all but the most 'broad' painters. I'd rather let the decision to the good judgement of the person who's the current LPL general than to a democratic argument to what they should be.
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I'm in a democratic mood today :)
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Bad timing. I've got a lot on over the next few months, but hopefully will get enough painting done to enter every round. ::)
Zombies and VSF? :o I take it you didn't discuss this with Captain Blood. :D
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Bad timing. I've got a lot on over the next few months, but hopefully will get enough painting done to enter every round. ::)
Zombies and VSF? :o I take it you didn't discuss this with Captain Blood. :D
...nor Plynkes. :)
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Nonsense, I love Shaun of the Dead, and Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds.
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I'm fine with all three, even though I may not be able to do them all. For the barbarian round I'll probably paint some Foundry American Indians and just do the ones without firearms. Might not match the theme properly but it fits generally (in my head) and the figs need painting anyway :)
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How barbaric should the barbarian horsemen be for Round one? Would wild-eyed Cossacks or Samurai cavalry be considered suitably barbaric, or is this really limited to bare-chested Conan-type cavalry...?
What about suitably barbaric fantasy cavalry (Goblin Wolf Riders, Wood Elf Wild Riders, Centaurs, etc.)?
The Bonus theme is The Savage sword of Conan. I think it's really clear. No cossacks, no samurai, no goblins or wood elves.
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I'm fine with all three, even though I may not be able to do them all. For the barbarian round I'll probably paint some Foundry American Indians and just do the ones without firearms. Might not match the theme properly but it fits generally (in my head) and the figs need painting anyway :)
It's a bit on the edge but I could accept that if they wouldn't carry any firearms.
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... Lots of historical barbarians... just ask the Romans! 8)
lol
As I said, it was only a suggestion for the next LPL (season 5 and so on…) I'm Okay with the choices made by the Prof. I don’t have any figures for these themes but I will participate anyway because I like painting figures… plus, I managed to sell half the figures I painted in the last LPL season lol
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Do Barsoomian Martians count as VSF figures for the purposes of the bonus round?
yes.
If so, how large does a Barsoomian flyer have to be to count as a large vehicle...?
It should be just large, more then just one-man-flyer. I'd say about 20 cm or more.
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I'm assuming Celts will be OK as barbarians for round 1.
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I'm assuming Celts will be OK as barbarians for round 1.
yes, they will do that.
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Since the Prof is feeling democratic ( :o), I must admit I'm not too into the barbarian theme either. Not only do I not like it, but it seems much more limiting than the usual bonus theme. Seems to me that these bonus round themes usually leave some room for interpretation, allowing a painter to work his/her interests in somehow. This barbarian theme, however, evokes ONLY images of mostly-naked, fur-swathed, sword-armed, mucle-bound men. Am I failing to appreciate alternative possibilities here?
The zombies theme also doesn't interest me. However, I can see ways of making it fit into my interests, such as painting zombies from various eras, time periods, styles, etc. I can basically take my very favorite minis and zombify them.
My concerns having been voiced, I don't think the bonus rounds should be changed though. No matter what theme is announced, someone will be unhappy with the new theme. And if you (Prof) change away from Barbarians, someone will be unhappy that he/she doesn't get to paint barbarians.
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This barbarian theme, however, evokes ONLY images of mostly-naked, fur-swathed, sword-armed, mucle-bound men. Am I failing to appreciate alternative possibilities here?
Er, how about mostly-naked, fur-swathed, sword-armed, muscle-bound women? ;)
I'm happy with barbarians, because I have an unpainted boxful and it'll help me get my long sidelined cave people project finally underway. Hurrah.
Zombies I loathe with a vengeance. But as I'm in a minority of about, er.. one - I did agree with the Prof that this was a good choice.
VSF isn't my thing either, but I expect I shall have a stab. I mean how hard can rivets be to paint? ;)
But as I'm probably going to have to officiate for at least a couple of the rounds whilst the Prof is away, I shan't be competing too ferociously for every available bonus point this time. Although I will try to get an entry into every round :)
But picking bonus themes is always going to be a thankless task. It's just not possible to please all the people all of the time...
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Ok, my democratic mood is over ;) We'll stay by Conan. But I can imagine to extend the Conan round to the evil opponents of Conan or other peoples of the Conan world, so Serpent Men, Black Kingdoms etc. That would give you plenty of possibilities. But it won't be a Warhammer or Tolkien fantasy round, so no elves, orcs, goblins and other rabble :)
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But it won't be a Warhammer or Tolkien fantasy round, so no elves, orcs, goblins and other rabble :)
lol
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The bonus themes sound fine to me. Coincidentally, I have two different barbarian sets undercoated on my painting table, but that surely doesn't affect my judgement in the slightest. lol
"Barbarian" apparently means anything human without shirts, firearms or other nancy boy extras. I think we've seen much more limiting themes in the past, such as true historical minis from some particular period and setting. I tried to harvest the previous themes. Didn't attend any of these so forgive me if I there are mixups.
LPL1
5. WWII team
7. Halloween special - be scary!
10. CoC (humans 10, monsters 20, Cthulhu 30)
LPL2
1. Conquistadors (Spanish 10, natives 15, both 20)
5. Mad science (doc & staff 10, doc & robots 15, doc & creatures 20)
10. Back of beyond (foot 10, mounted 15, either+tank 20, either+train 25)
LPL3
1. Germans
5. Cavalry
10. Lost world (natives 10, natives+explorers 20, both+creature 30)
So after all, I think "beefy brutes" is actually quite universal in comparison. Zombies are, well, undead, but can be included in any setting. To me VSF sounds like the most restricted when it comes to the theme. On the other hand, it allows various model types and alien thingies too.
Good enough for me.
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Ok, my democratic mood is over ;) We'll stay by Conan. But I can imagine to extend the Conan round to the evil opponents of Conan or other peoples of the Conan world, so Serpent Men, Black Kingdoms etc. That would give you plenty of possibilities. But it won't be a Warhammer or Tolkien fantasy round, so no elves, orcs, goblins and other rabble :)
Ah. Just a momentary lapse then. A toady like me need his despot. ;)
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Sounds great!!! Guess I'd better get some paint on these Celts... o_o
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Already picking out units/squads to paint for future rounds.
Round 1 will be celts
Round 2 7th US Cavalry, dismounted
Round 3 some Perry WotR
Round 4 Cadian
Round 5 Zombie's from Hasslefree and zombie hunters, also from hasslefree
Round 6 a BCW unit of some description
Round 7 Not Sure yet
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Adding to the confusion....what´s the difference between Victorian Sci-Fi and any late 19th century armed civilians? (...as I see this as the only chance of getting some bonus points....conan and zombies... :( )
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Adding to the confusion....what´s the difference between Victorian Sci-Fi and any late 19th century armed civilians? (...as I see this as the only chance of getting some bonus points....conan and zombies... :( )
None at all if you theme it right. Helps if you add some kind of rivety construction.
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As a lifelong Conan fan, and a huge fan of Savage Sword of Conan, my indecision on whether to participate has been turned to eagerness to join in!
Not everyone will like every theme - I for instance have zero interest in the themes for the other bonus rounds but am glad others will enjoy them.
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I've extended the Conan round to other people of Conan's world, the original topic is modified too.
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I've extended the Conan round to other people of Conan's world, the original topic is modified too.
I was thinking that it might be helpful for someone who is expert in the Conan mythos to post a reference about which historical empires correspond to races/peoples in Conan's world. I don't claim any expertise, but I'm pretty sure that:
Cimmerians = Celts
Stygians = Egyptians
Picts = Native Americans
Xuchotl = Aztecs
Vanaheim/Asgard = Norse
Vendhya = India
Afghulis = Afghan Tribesmen
Kushites = Africans
Shemites = Semites
I'm a little vague on what Aquilonia, Zingara, Brythunia, Zamora, etc. are supposed to represent. Frankly, there seems to be a place for most historic peoples somewhere in Conan's world...
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I'm a little vague on what Aquilonia, Zingara, Brythunia, Zamora, etc. are supposed to represent. Frankly, there seems to be a place for most historic peoples somewhere in Conan's world...
I think Aquilonia is "Late-Roman-ish", Brythunia inspired by medieval Eastern Europe, Zamora being a "hotchpotch" with all kinds of folks forming the populace, and Zingara always seemed a bit iberic/hispanic. I think there's a list on the Wikipedia page which sums it up more or less.
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I was thinking that it might be helpful for someone who is expert in the Conan mythos to post a reference about which historical empires correspond to races/peoples in Conan's world. I don't claim any expertise, but I'm pretty sure that:
Cimmerians = Celts
Stygians = Egyptians
Picts = Native Americans
Xuchotl = Aztecs
Vanaheim/Asgard = Norse
Vendhya = India
Afghulis = Afghan Tribesmen
Kushites = Africans
Shemites = Semites
I'm a little vague on what Aquilonia, Zingara, Brythunia, Zamora, etc. are supposed to represent. Frankly, there seems to be a place for most historic peoples somewhere in Conan's world...
These are pretty spot on, the Picts are also somewhat primitive, iron-age brutes but there are Native American overtones there too, depending on the story ("Beyond The Black River" especially). Aquilonia is often portrayed as Roman, but really it is Frankish. Zingara is a Spanish; Turan equates to a Turkish kingdom. There are of course different opinions, but these come from some of the REH scholars I trust the most.
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Aquilonia is often portrayed as Roman, but really it is Frankish.
I always considered Aquilonia (given the name) "proper" to be more of the Late (West) Roman variety, whereas Poitain had that Frankish flair to it. Of course, that overlaps quite a bit, especially if you'd consider a Charlemagne Frankish Empire aspiring to be a "successor of Rome", and I could perfectly imagine Aquilonia in total as such, but I always was under the impression that it was more in the "decadent Late Roman" vein, with existing, but strained orderly structures.
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Yes, Charlemagne's Frankish era is more what I meant. I am so used to seeing it depicted as Roman in the comics and SSOC that I am just as happy with that, but more thorough and scholarly REH fans than I have made some pretty good arguments against it over at the conan.com forums. Whatever you prefer, it works for me - I just am looking forward to seeing Hyborian themed miniatures in this contest!
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Sorry for the long post here, but maybe this will help people with the first bonus round. This is from the Conan RPG and was put together by the incredibly knowledgable Vincent Darlage:
Kingdom, Region, or Ethnic Group Correspondence(s)
Acheron A fallen kingdom corresponding to the Roman Empire. Its territory covered Aquilonia, Nemedia, and Argos. The name comes from Acheron, a river of the underworld in Greek mythology.
Afghulistan Afghanistan. Afghulistan is the common name of the habitat of different tribes in the Himelian mountains
Amazonia Brazil, or South America generally.
Aquilonia The Carolingian Empire, medieval France, with occasional hints of England. The name derived from the town of Aquilonia, Avellino, Campania, Southern Italy, Italy, although it also resembles Aquitaine, a French region ruled by England for a long portion of the Middle Ages.
Argos Various seafaring traders of the Mediterranean. The name comes from the Argo, ship of the Argonauts; or perhaps from the city of Argos, Argolis, Peloponnesos, Greece. Also hints of Italy in regards to the indigenous population's appearance, names, and culture. Argos takes on the shape of a "shoe" in it's border boundaries as compared to Italy appearing as a "boot".
Asgard Sweden (Ásgard is the home of the Æsir in Norse mythology)
Border Kingdoms German Baltic Sea coast
Bossonian Marches Wales, with an overlay of colonial-era North America
Brythunia The continental homelands of the Angles and Saxons who invaded Britain, which is the origin of the name, though the civilization is similar to that of medieval Poland, Lithuania, Latvia.
Cimmeria Celtic Britain/Scotland of ancient times. The name is based on "Cymru", the Welsh word for Wales. Conan, a Cimmerian, has an Irish name, as do his parents. Cimmerians are described in similar detail to "Black Irish" and Basque characteristics, suggesting a genetic link to Celtic peoples.
Corinthia Ancient Greece (Corinth is a Greek city)
Darfar The name may derive from Darfur, Sudan.
Gunderland The Netherlands ? Gunderland, count of Hesbaye (?-778). Perhaps Germany
Hyrkania Mongolia, Ukraine (Hyrkanians = Scythians) ->Hyrcania
Hyperborea Finland, Russia and the Baltic countries (Hyperborea was a land in "outermost north" according to Greek historian Herodotus. Howard's Hyperborea is a northern Evil Empire, ruled by wicked wizards, perhaps akin to the perception of the 1930s Soviet Union)
Iranistan Iran
Kambulja Cambodia
Keshan The name comes from the "Kesh", the Egyptian name for Nubia.
Khauran The Crusader kingdom
Khitai China, Marco Polo's Cathay. The Kira-Khitai were a prominent tribe amongst Mongol steppe tribes.
Khoraja Khazaria?
Koth From the ancient Hittites; The Kothian capital of Khorshemish corresponds to the Hittite capital of Carchemish.
Kush From the kingdom of Kush, Nubia, North Africa.
Meru Tibet (This isn't an original Hyborian Age country, it's created by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter.)
Nemedia The Germanic Holy Roman Empire. Nemedia was the rival of Aquilonia (which corresponds to the Carolingian Empire/France), and depended on Aesir mercenaries for their defence (as the Byzantines hired Vikings as the Varangian guard). The name comes from Nemed, leader of colonists from Scythia to Ireland in Irish mythology; perhaps the name is also meant to allude to Nemea, home to the Nemean lion of Greek myth.
Ophir Ancient Ophir, though clearly Howard saw it as situated somewhere in Italy.
Pictish Wilderness Pictish Scotland, with an overlay of colonial-era North America, possibly even colonial-era New York. Howard bestows Algonquian names on his Picts. Note that the name "Pict" comes from the Latin term for "painted one", which could be applicable to Amerindians.
Poitain Aquitaine (?) (likely, although the name reminds of Poitou, a province Northeast of Aquitaine, but not mediterranean, and not properly part of the South). Its location in the south of Aquilonia could point to Provence, which is in the south of France.
Punt The Land of Punt on the Horn of Africa.
Shem Mesopotamia, Syria, Palestine, and Arabia (cf. Semites, purportedly the sons of Shem)
Stygia Egypt. The name comes from Styx, a river of the underworld in Greek mythology. In earlier times the territory of Stygia included Shem, Ophir, Corinthia, and part of Koth.
Turan The Ottoman Empire (?) or Persian Empire (?) or Byzantine Empire (?). The name derives from Turan, the areas of Eurasia occupied by speakers of Ural-Altaic languages.
Vanaheim Norway (Vanaheim is the home of the Vanir in Norse mythology)
Vendhya India (The Vindhya Range is a range of hills in central India)
Zamora The Roma people. The name comes from the city of Zamora, Zamora province, Castile-Leon, Spain, alluding to the Gitanos of Spain; or possibly it is based on the word "Roma". The name could also, in part, allude to Sonora, a region of Mexico that is "spider-haunted" like Zamora. Also hints of ancient Israel and Palestine.
Zembabwei The Munhumutapa Empire (Its capital city was the Great Zimbabwe)
Zingara Spain/Portugal. Iberian Peninsula as a whole. Zingara is also Italian for "Gipsy woman".
Other Geographic Features
The River Styx The Nile
Zaporoska River The Don and/or the Volga. The river's name was probably influenced by Zaporizhian Sich, a settlement of the Cossacks in Zaporizhzhia (region). It was situated on the Dnieper river, below the Dnieper rapids (porohy, poroz.a), hence the name, translated as "territory beyond the rapids".
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So, if I understand correctly both Celts and Vikings are proper entries for the first bonusround?
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Obviously it's the Prof's call but if I were choosing, I'd say yes, but I'd request people to choose figures from their ranges that had a more 'barbaric flair' :P
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So, if I understand correctly both Celts and Vikings are proper entries for the first bonusround?
yes but I still would like to see a sort of "fantasy flair".
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Celts and Vikings are the most barbaric miniatures within my ranges :) Thanks for allowing them Prof. I'm not quite sure how to interpret 'fantasy flair' though. Would bright (less realistic) colors be enough? Or miniatures with heroic proportions instead of realistic ones? Maybe I should watch Conan again to get a better understanding ;)
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Hmmm, not a fan of any of the bonus rounds. I'll pass this year, but I'll check out all the eye candy each week 8)
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Or miniatures with heroic proportions instead of realistic ones?
good idea!
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I'm going to have my Celts fighting against a couple serpentmen for my 'fantasy flair'. May also use some slightly more 'fantasy' scenery to pull off the look...now, back to painting... o_o
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Thinking ahead a bit... can the zombies be led by a shaman or necromancer?
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Thinking ahead a bit... can the zombies be led by a shaman or necromancer?
sure :)
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Zombies I loathe with a vengeance. But as I'm in a minority of about, er.. one
Make that two! I used to be interested in seeing what others could do with the undead, but now I must say I'm downright sick o' them. Use your imaginations, people!
Do Mahdists* count for the barbarian section? I'm sure Muhammad Ahmad himself would be pretty miffed about the suggestion that his troops were barbarians, but, y'know.
I can do the VSF bit easy, and as already pointed out, I won't be doing the Zombies.
*Well, the generic natives of That-bit-of-unnamed-Africa-next-to-the-Sudan-so-I-don't-have-to-paint-the-coloured-squares-on-land.
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Sorry for putting a probably rather stupid question - but would it theoretically be possible to enter a team of plastics?
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Never thought about a question like that. It's not stupid at all as the title does say Lead Painters' League.
If they don't allow plastics I shall protest vehemently. lol
But I think the name came from the name of the forum and no one will have any problem with plastic, but the official judges will, I am sure, post.
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When I translated the original rules and conferred with the Prof, we never meant to exclude any kind of miniature. We already had a number of Space Marines as entries (various incarnations of plastics), so I'd say it's just a name to go with the forum name, as Op5 suggests.
Pending a final ruling by the Prof, feel free to enter plastics.
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But is it theoretically possible to get any votes with a team of plastic space marines? lol
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We've had plenty of plastic teams in previous seasons (yes, mainly space marines, and mostly from Groningen lol)
So I think we can safely say plastic figures are okay, even though it's the lead painters league :)
I should declare a vested interest in this, however, since I shall probably enter at least a couple teams of Perry Wars of The Roses plastics! (Since I'm currently painting lots of them) ;)
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Thanks for the heads-up. Perhaps that's the incentive then I need to finally get on with my papal troops... :)
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Sorry for putting a probably rather stupid question - but would it theoretically be possible to enter a team of plastics?
yes, no problem.
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So Smurfs will be OK? :)
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So Smurfs will be OK? :)
Sure. I would even give some extra bonus for that sort of madness :)
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Ahhhh! Smurfs...brilliant! :-* Can't wait for this...
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Ummmm... You guys do know that "SMurfs" is a slang term for Space Marines, right...? ???
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Just a question, let's say I do not send a picture on time for a round, do you automaticly take the picture of the previous round ?
Bruno
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Just a question, let's say I do not send a picture on time for a round, do you automaticly take the picture of the previous round ?
Bruno
yes, that's what I would do.
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Though the better course of action would be for YOU to pick one of your earlier entries and contact the Prof and ask him to use that instead.
I do believe you can use ANY previous entry, you just won't receive an points for submitting a new team.
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Though the better course of action would be for YOU to pick one of your earlier entries and contact the Prof and ask him to use that instead.
I do believe you can use ANY previous entry, you just won't receive an points for submitting a new team.
that's correct, Ray.
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Yes of course that what I would do, but it was for the case where you can't send an e-mail in time...
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How are zombies defined? I have a bunch of mostly skeletal pirates I could enter, but I'm not sure they'd actually make "zombie".
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How are zombies defined? I have a bunch of mostly skeletal pirates I could enter, but I'm not sure they'd actually make "zombie".
Zombies still have lots of flesh on the bones, skeletons not :)
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Right, I'm watching paint dry and started to think about this VSF round. Simply put: what is in? I know huge cardboard boxes with too many fist-sized rivets are the very pinnacle of this genre. Unfortunately I have no such pinnacles on my to-do list. Victorian British with steam bits are probably very VSF too. However, what would make, say, aliens particularly Victorian? Please give me some ideas, which don't consist solely of rivets.
Also, do weird immobile contraptions count, or does it have to be a vehicle?
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I know huge cardboard boxes with too many fist-sized rivets are the very pinnacle of this genre. Unfortunately I have no such pinnacles on my to-do list.
lol lol lol Got to be the quote of the week!
Anyway, I'm taking my chances with this R10.
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My entries are devised to eat into my 18thC lead pile but I'm struggling with VSF for round 10 - just can't get my head around a suitable crossover. o_o
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If John Carter was transported/abducted in the 1860s, perhaps there were earlier abductions. Formed their own enclave and never absorbed into the populace. Dinotopia might give you a little inspiration. Throw in a flier & a few aliens and there you are.
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My entries are devised to eat into my 18thC lead pile but I'm struggling with VSF for round 10 - just can't get my head around a suitable crossover. o_o
I had a moment of clarity and now I have a plan..... ;) :D