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Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: dominic on May 05, 2007, 03:02:37 PM

Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 05, 2007, 03:02:37 PM: Yee Haw!

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/cav_01.jpg)

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/cav_02.jpg)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Malamute on May 05, 2007, 03:28:19 PM: Excellent stuff. :) One of my favourite collections of figures are the Copplestone/Foundry Cavalry and Indians. Looking forward to seeing the Indians :)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Pappa Midnight on May 05, 2007, 03:38:04 PM: Lovely Work! :love:

I especially like the scout.
Ditto Malamute about the Indians!
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Lowtardog on May 05, 2007, 10:57:25 PM: I picked these up a couple of years ago including all the Indians then I have slowly been making buys of more Indians over the years from e-bay one day I will paint them. Yours are absolutely fantastic :love:
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 05, 2007, 11:10:16 PM: Thanks guys!

I don't have any immediate plans to paint Indians.

These guys are going to recapture the town from them Indians here:

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/campaign12.jpg)

Anyone watch "Son of the Morning Star"? It's a really great TV Mini Series on Custer and Crazy Horse. Ever since I watched the series back in the 1990s, I've always wanted to do up the 7th Cavalry!
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 06, 2007, 01:46:38 AM: My favourite army ever :)

Here is my 7th Cavalry, now sold :( 12 Companies plus scouts and supplies.
This picture doesn't show the supply wagon, limbered and unlimbered Gatling gun and 6pdr cannon or all the dismounted figures and horseholders etc. They took up exactly the same base area as the mounted ones but you'll just have to imagine them...

(http://www.matakishi.com/Cavalry%20at%20Mark%27s%202.jpg)

All the figures ar Britannia 28mm.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Wallyocerous on May 06, 2007, 06:26:11 AM: :o :o :o

Sweet Bjesus!!! Did you paint all those 'Kishi?!??!

I'm trying to work out how long it would have taken me to paint all those...it's depressing! :cry:

You must be part German! :wink:
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Bravo Six on May 06, 2007, 07:40:02 AM: Paul has a motto: "Go Hard or Go Home". :wink:

-Todd
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 06, 2007, 08:33:27 AM: @Matakishi - Wow! That's really impressive!
That's my long term goal. Right now, I just hope to finish the Foundry Cavalry Horde that I bought!

What rules did you use?
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 06, 2007, 09:50:41 AM: They're based for Principles of War which are my preferred Colonial rules set. They work very well for conflicts of this type.

I sold them to a friend because I didn't want to paint the Indians. I'd painted the Indians once (106 mounted 50+ on foot with camp, women, children etc) but they had been lost previously in a rent dispute with an old landlord :)

This lot took about a year to paint but I was slower then :lol:

Here are the only othe photos I have, please remember I painted these in 1997...

Custer and Major Reno

(http://www.matakishi.com/US%20Cavalry%20Custer%20and%20Reno.jpg)

Cannon and limber

(http://www.matakishi.com/US%20Cavalry%20cannon%20limber%201.jpg)

Gatling gun and limber

(http://www.matakishi.com/US%20Cavalry%20gatling%20limber%201.jpg)

The guns deployed

(http://www.matakishi.com/US%20Cavalry%20guns%20deployed.jpg)

If you pushed all the bases together in a column of twos the cavalry column was over 11 ft long :lol:

Anyway, I've hijacked this thread enough, I'll let you get back to the well painted figures we started with...
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Lowtardog on May 06, 2007, 10:31:28 AM: They are lovely Matakishi, very inspirational and the painting is good. That is my aim one day...err....when I finsh the 500 plus south american iniands anyway :D
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 06, 2007, 11:27:35 AM: @Matakishi - very nice!
Do you have an order of battle for 7th Cavalry?
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 06, 2007, 12:08:11 PM: I have the exact numbers for the Batlte of the Little Bighorn somewhere.

Essentially there are 12 Companies arranged into three squadrons of four. Custer split this up unevenly into the groups shown in the first picture, he took 5 companies and left Reno and Benteen with three each. Company B guarded the supply train.

There were about 50-60 men in each company at the Little Bighorn, some had only 40 or so. each Company had identical coloured horses (like Napoleon did).

Reports differ as to what colours were where but everyone agrees that E Coy had the greys (white) horses, even the Indians commented on them.

The cavalry dismounted and fought on foot, they are really mounted infantry, three men formed a fire group and the 4th took the horses to the rear. Often the Indians would try to attack the horse holders because a cavalryman without his horse couldn't escape.

Custer also took the regimental band with him on campaign, they would play 'Garry Owen' to signal dawn attacks. I was going to convert some figures into a band but never got round to it.

Incidently, and this is not a comment on your excellent painting, but only officers and ncos had the yellow stripe on their legs, enlisted men didn't. Then again, they didn't have yellow neckerchiefs and all of mine do.
You have to have some concession to Hollywood. :lol:

If you need more detail let me know and I'll try to find my list. The Osprey Little Bighorn book is one of the best on the subject and is well worth getting. Sadly Son of the Morning Star is not available on dvd, it's a very accurate portrayal of the equipment and tactics used by the cavalry.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Plynkes on May 06, 2007, 12:37:52 PM: "Son of the Morning Star" was great, wasn't it? My favourite film/TV thing on Custer.

I have the old VHS boxed set of it. Be nice to have it on DVD. Be nice if they'd release it.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 06, 2007, 01:09:52 PM: Yes, it's the only video I own now, I'm considering having it transferred to dvd just to make it easier to watch. (I don't have a video player).
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 06, 2007, 02:20:53 PM: Thanks for that brief Orbat.
And where do the Gatlings and guns come in? Were they organic or attached?
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 06, 2007, 03:02:25 PM: They were taken as part of the collumn for the Little Bighorn but never used. Probably under a separate Atillery command but I'm not sure without looking it up and everything's in storage :(
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 06, 2007, 04:03:56 PM: I need to dig up my Son of the Morning Star book.
According to the mini-series, Gen Terry offered Custer the gatlings, but he refused to take them saying they would slow him down.

BTW - thanks for the tip about the trouser stripe. Damn Osprey only showed NCOs and officers in their illustrations. The only Private shown had a carbine blocking the trouser stripe area!! (My fault for not reading the book before starting to paint!)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Malamute on May 08, 2007, 08:53:00 AM: Matakishi - an exellent collection - I recently sold my Britannia collection too :( . I also have Son of The Morning Star on video too :)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 09, 2007, 08:54:50 AM: Matakishi - where can I get nice US cavalry flags?
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 09, 2007, 10:39:48 AM: I don't know :)

Each company should have a company guidon, by this time they were the stars and stripes design. Some people show the company letter in the centre of the circle of stars but there's no evidence of this as far as I know.

I prefer the earlier and easier to read red and white guidons from the Civil War. I made mine with a red pencil and some finely textured cartridge paper. I added some Britannia stars and stripes ones to the first companies in each squadron so that there was a stars and stripes presence in the column. The Britannia ones are not great however.

Custer's personal flag I made myself and I was going to add a general ACW Cavalry standard to the figure next to that but never got round to it. I got that from Warflag who might have guidons too...

http://www.warflag.com/flags/acw/ustext.shtml

Redoubt also do them:
http://www.redoubtenterprises.com/shop/?page=shop/browse&category_id=8e4dff4aee17744a9dddfe2d990cf873

No photos but the flags are really nice (I haven't seen the actual guidons but I have used many others from this range.)

You can see their flags in operation here:
http://www.displacedminiatures.com/Matakishi/images.html?galleryId=102&from=ACW+figures

The first set of Zouaves use Warflag flags, the rest are from Redoubt.
When I re-do my 7th Cavalry I'll use the Redoubt ones :)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 09, 2007, 10:48:09 AM: Thanks
I was thinking of making my own, then decided to look around on the web to see if there were nice ready made ones.

But there are very few 7th Cav flags out there. The only specific ones I could find were from Cotton Jim and Signifer. Unfortunately there were no pics.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Malamute on May 09, 2007, 11:43:29 AM: Dominic - make your own guidons and go with the red and white version. Its more Hollywood :)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 10, 2007, 06:24:23 PM: Dismount! Form skirmish line!

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/cav_03.jpg)
(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/cav_04.jpg)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 10, 2007, 06:29:17 PM: Excellent, really nice painting.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Malamute on May 13, 2007, 12:08:47 PM: Excellent painting. If you want a it of variety. some of the fgures wearing just shirts and not scak jackets could be painted wearing grey flannel shirts or civialian ones, red or white.
I painted mine up wearing a mishmash of different coloured hats and shirts. :)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 13, 2007, 11:04:51 PM: A bit more this weekend.
Home-made guidons

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/cav_05.jpg)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 13, 2007, 11:17:48 PM: Very nice! Much better than bought ones.

But, OMG, their spurs! Cavalry spurs are brass! Always brass :o
I swear, the youf of today have mo respeck for 'istory :lol:
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 14, 2007, 08:30:43 AM: Brass spurs you say? :freak:
Damn!! I wish the Ospreys were clearer with their illustrations!!
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 14, 2007, 10:45:20 AM: Well, I wouldn't worry about it really, what's important is whether you're pleased with them (and you should be).

I've been thinking about 'uniform accuracy' a lot recently and I've basically decided that it's not important at all. Once you get past a general look for the figures, in this case dark blue coat, light blue trousers and black hat (with variations), than everything else really doesn't matter. Sources disagree on everything so you'll probably never be right anyway. Since there are already arguments about what people wore and carried in Vietnam there are certainly many innaccuracies in every uniform book about earlier times.

I am now happy to paint figures to an accepted colour scheme and with enough 'correct' detail to satisfy myself. Anything further I make up. It saves a whole lot of bother.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Malamute on May 15, 2007, 01:07:20 PM: Superb guidons :o

I agree with Matakishi - If it looks good go with it. Epsecially the Wild West and the myths of the 7th cavalry. Hollywood is definately the way forward :lol:
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 19, 2007, 07:14:32 PM: @Matakishi - did the US Cavalry follow the grey horses for bugler convention?
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 19, 2007, 07:20:45 PM: No.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Grimm on May 19, 2007, 11:31:58 PM: He Hombre !!
what do you think will you go south of the border and mess with real Vatos ?

nice work cheers Grimm
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 20, 2007, 12:49:55 AM: Good news for me!
I am buying back my 7th Cavalry!!!
Yay! Woot! etc.

same price too :)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Lowtardog on May 20, 2007, 01:57:17 AM: Heehee Matakishi, so will Indians be in the pipe line?
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on May 20, 2007, 09:21:46 AM: Not unless I find some already painted. I don't want to paint Indians ever again.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Lowtardog on May 20, 2007, 03:00:34 PM: lol, I understand I am working through hundreds of Meso americans and still have around 120 mounted plains Indians sitting in the lead pile for a Legends of the old west or the TSATF variant Boots, Bugles and saddle bags or some such. There is also a nice set (better than the official TSATF) Of rules on the Jackson gamers site too.

http://www.angelfire.com/games3/jacksongamer/tomahawk.htm
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on May 21, 2007, 10:44:14 PM: Next batch:

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/cav_06.jpg)

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/cav_07.jpg)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Malamute on May 22, 2007, 08:25:53 AM: Awesome stuff Dominic :D
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on July 05, 2007, 09:37:41 PM: The Grey Horse company:

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/7cav_ecoy01.jpg)

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/7cav_ecoy02.jpg)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Helen on July 05, 2007, 10:45:47 PM: Super looking figures :)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on July 09, 2007, 10:53:19 AM: The man himself!

Lt Cooke, Custer's HQ Guidon, Custer, Bloody Knife:

(http://www.napnuts.com/LOTOW/7cav_custer.jpg)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on July 09, 2007, 05:08:03 PM: Very nice indeed.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Roger Guy on January 04, 2008, 09:17:28 PM: I wish to bring to your attention some miniatures painted by me:
Half covered U.S. Army Wagon
(http://i.io.com.ua/img_aa/large/0262/05/02620569.jpg)
(http://i.io.com.ua/img_aa/large/0262/05/02620570.jpg)
(http://i.io.com.ua/img_aa/large/0262/05/02620574.jpg)
Best regards
R.G.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: matakishi on January 04, 2008, 09:27:45 PM: Excellent Roger, made by Dixons?
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Roger Guy on January 04, 2008, 09:44:20 PM: Yes, you are right, it Dixon. Half covered U.S. Army Wagon (WW/COMP11)
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on January 04, 2008, 11:01:05 PM: Wow! Excellent!!
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: archangel1 on January 05, 2008, 01:25:24 AM: Very nice work, R.G. I like the fact that your colours are muted and flat. I have never liked gloss figures at any time, despite understanding the fact that they are usually painted gloss for protection while gaming. I think you've also decided me in favour of purchasing some of Dixon's Western equipment sets. I've been eyeing their complete Stagecoach at the halt set as a diorama fixture for a while, now, and your excellent treatment of the supply wagon has just proved to me that the Dixon's can really paint up a treat.
Cheers from Canada! :wink:
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Roger Guy on January 05, 2008, 12:45:25 PM: Many thanks for your answers. All miniatures are covered by a layer of a varnish, a varnish matte, manufactures of company Games Workshop.
Colors muffled itself I love, they give to a miniature a natural kind.
Now I work above three miniatures from Dixon: Prairie Schooner; Chuck Wagon, complete with barrel, coffee grinder and coffee pot; Buckboard Wagon. On Stage, I too for a long time admire, as soon as I shall finish with wagons too the purchase.
As it seems to me, the Company Dixon, makes good miniatures townsfolk and accessories for the old West, and it is better than a miniature of fighters at Artizan and Foundry.
I wish success!
R.G.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Chairface on January 05, 2008, 01:05:16 PM: Beautiful mini! They are going to look awesome together on the tabletop.
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: Super_Gibbon on January 09, 2008, 06:24:21 PM: Hey dominic, what paints are you using for your horses? The Gibbon is curious. I'm always looking for different browns. I waste alot of time trying to figure out which brown for the horse, which for the straps, which for some pouches on equipment, etc... It's maddening.

By the way, nice figs and great work!
Title: The Plains Indian Wars Have Begun!
Post by: dominic on January 09, 2008, 07:46:01 PM: Thanks! I used Foundry paints for the horses and followed Kevin Dallimore's instructions to the "T"