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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Antenociti on June 05, 2007, 03:31:08 PM
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Slowly moving away form the sci-fi stuff for a bit of a break atm and currently doing some background work on some "pulp" vehicles that i am considering doing..
Rather than trying to dig through everything online I thought I would pick the collective mind here on a few things:
I'm including some VERY estimate prices just to help show where I am aiming for with regard to price.
Rolls Royce Armoured Car - I've been commissioned to build one of these for a client for 28mm. I've seen a few others out there that look pretty good - any reason/need/want for us to turn this into a production vehicle or are there plenty out there already? (est price around £12)
Whippet tank - WWI light tank "famous" for raiding behind the lines at Amiens(?) near the war's end. I've only seen a 1/72 and 1/35th kit for these and couldn't find any 28mm versions - so assuming that this might be something that folks might want as there is a gap in the market? (est price around £12)
Mack Truck - 28mm 1920/30s open backed mack truck. Just a truck that I thought would make a nice model - again no idea if it's already done although I know Lledo and Matchbox make them so useful or not ?(est price around a tenner whereas you can get a Lledo one for around £5 easily)
Model A ford van - another lledo and matchbox job but was thinking, as with the mack above, to make a normal version plus/or a "suped-up-pulp" version (again around a tenner or so so competing with the lledo stuff)
Citroen traction 11cv - couldn't see anything for this classic car other than the 1/48 kit which is too small (imo) for 28mm - obviously can be used interwar and WWII for French or German forces - REALLY classic car and a lovely looking one. (est price around £12)
French armoured car/light tank (doh forgotten the name but its this one http://www.chars-francais.net/images/archives/schneider_amc_p16/p16_m29_030.jpg
)
another really classic "weird looking" design that I just fancied doing - probably £12-15. Haven't seen any 28mm models of this at all.
"League of Gentlemen" Rolls Royce - something big, suped and rather ugly similar to the Roller in The League of Gentlemen - something "pulpy" in other words. ~ £12
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All of those are very, very early thoughts atm, so if they are already covered or there's no interest then its no big deal. Also always open to suggestions not mentioned above, especially if its a model that is not available elsewhere and isn't among the Lledo/Matchbox stuff (or Sloppy Jalopy for that matter - no point doing what they already do well)
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Brigade sell a 28mm Whippet, and Copplestone and others a Rolls Royce. So I'm not sure there would be much call for competing versions unless they are obviously superior models. Might be better to do stuff nobody else is doing.
I'm not trying to put down your ideas, I'd love to see you move into this historical area. It's just that those particular ones have already been done.
How about Talbot cars? (flat bed trucks with a small arty piece in the back.) They could be used in conjunction with Rollers for some T.E. Lawrence railway-busting fun.
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Brigade sell a 28mm Whippet, and Copplestone and others a Rolls Royce. So I'm not sure there would be much call for competing versions unless they are obviously superior models. Might be better to do stuff nobody else is doing.
I'm not trying to put down your ideas, I'd love to see you move into this historical area. It's just that those particular ones have already been done.
How about Talbot cars? (flat bed trucks with a small arty piece in the back.) They could be used in conjunction with Rollers for some T.E. Lawrence railway-busting fun.
no worries, that's exactly what I need to know, especially re what other companies are doing.
i'll take a gander at the whippet and see what it's like (and its rather jolly good so scratch that one) ... then go look up Talbot stuff!
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Just looking for Talbot cars I found this site which has a lot of nice ideas. Some have been done like the Rolls. I really like the Crossley and the Lanchester
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/GreatBritain/British-OtherVehicles.html
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/GreatBritain/GB-CrossleyD2E1.jpg)
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/GreatBritain/GB-Lanchester.jpg)
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Mack Truck - 28mm 1920/30s open backed mack truck. Just a truck that I thought would make a nice model - again no idea if it's already done although I know Lledo and Matchbox make them so useful or not?
Lledo already do a Mack truck but its a little on the small side - I'm guessing maybe 1/64, or 1/66 scale, so a proper 1/56 scale truck would be appreciated, at least by me.
(est price around a tenner whereas you can get a Lledo one for around £5 easily)
More like a £1 on eBay 8) OK, so there's postage on top of that but you should be able to get what you want for £3 or less. However I'm willing to pay more than that if its good and available nowhere else.
Model A ford van - another lledo and matchbox job but was thinking, as with the mack above, to make a normal version plus/or a "suped-up-pulp" version (again around a tenner or so so competing with the lledo stuff)
Again you nailed it, Lledo do a perfectly serviceable 1/53 Model A van, stake truck, coupe and open top variations. What they do not do, and what I'd really like to see is a pick-up version and a sedan/saloon version (i.e. hard top and four doors).
Whilst we're on the subject of Pulp vehicles I'd like to see a few other makes other than Ford - Packard, Chevrolet, etc. as well.
Citroen traction 11cv - couldn't see anything for this classic car other than the 1/48 kit which is too small (imo) for 28mm - obviously can be used interwar and WWII for French or German forces - REALLY classic car and a lovely looking one. (est price around £12)
I don't know if you've seen this (bottom of the page)?
Siku 1/55 Citroen traction 11cv (http://www.sikudirect.com/super/super_series_11.htm)
"League of Gentlemen" Rolls Royce - something big, suped and rather ugly similar to the Roller in The League of Gentlemen - something "pulpy" in other words. ~ £12
I'm always looking for a big fat bad guy's limo :lol:
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1931 MERCEDES BENZ 770
(http://i21.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/9a/89/75a0_1_b.JPG)
Matchbox do this but it's way too big.
The car was used as a state car for the Nazi & Japanese, it was also used by the mega rich.
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I would like to see a Rolls Royce Armoured Car in true 1/56 scale. The Copplestone one is too small measuring in at 1/64th.
I would also LOVE to see a 1/56 scale Ford A Pick Up like this:
(http://www.napnuts.com/pulp/ford_desertpatrols.jpg)
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BTW - I would probably buy 2-3 Rollers and 3 Ford A Pick Ups.
If you're doing a Lanchester, I'd like to see the 1939 version with 6 wheels. These were used by 2nd Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders in Malaya 1941-42. There are good plans for the Lanchester in the excellent book "Moon Over Malaya", which I can scan and send to you.
Best regards,
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Ooo the crossley and lanchester armoured cars are nice!!! especially the crossley!! :D
I don't know if you've seen this (bottom of the page)?
any idea if its a "suitable" size though? there's a german diecast at around 1/60 also but its waaaay too big... 'scales' are so far off at times.
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Ford-A pickup looks interesting - when was it used? i.e. how many genres/periods might it apply to?
Redzed - certainly a nice vehicle, do you know if anybody else does it?
Ref the roller - well I've got to do one, so I might as well put the little bit extra into making a kit of it. The client wants one that "looks right with based 28mm figures" so i assume they know of the other models out there and didn't like them for whatever scale reasons.
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as a general question, with the obvious exception of open-top vehicles and trucks is there any pressing need to have accessible interiors or are solid vehicles fine? (with metal detailing, maybe brass-etch where needed obviously)
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Just for the record, here's a pic of a real Roller next to real people:
(http://www.napnuts.com/images/RR02.jpg)
Here's my Copplestone Roller next to 28mm people:
(http://www.napnuts.com/pulp/rr01s.JPG)
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Re the Ford A Pick Up, here's what David Fletcher says:
"...the Palestine Emergency had interrupted training of what was known as the Mobile Force, based at Mersa Matruh. As a mixed cavalry and RTC formation, it was held up as an example to those in Britain who were resisting the inevitable creation of a Royal Armoured Corps. In mid-1938, this was followed by the creation of a Mobild Division consisting of 1st and 6th Battalions RTC and a brigade of 3 cavalry regiments equipped with light tanks, armoured cars, and for the time being, some Ford pick up trucks. It was commanded by Gen Hobart whose expertise and energy laid the foundation of what was to become 7th Armoured Division; described by Gen O'Connor as the best trained division I have ever seen...
...The Sudan Defence Force had a motor machine gun section as early as 1926. It began with Ford T light patrol cars and graduated to Model A Fords mounting Vickers MGs..."
The caption to the photo of the Ford A Pick Up above reads:
"Fords, especially American ones, have always been popular in the desert. These V8 armed pick up trucks were operated by 8th Hussars in Egypt and Palestine and although regarded as a poor substitute to armoured cars, were in fact direct and worthy descendents of the Ford T Light Patrol Cars of the First World War."
In gaming terms, I could see them being used in any 1930s desert, Africa, India, NW Frontier, Iraq or Central Asia game. To me, they look like the ideal Back of Beyond form of transport!
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OK Ford A is looking like a good'un :love:
I see what you mean about the roller - considerably smaller.
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Cool!! Can't wait to see them in production.
Here's something on the Lanchester 6x4 Armoured Car. In addition to Malaya 1941/42, they could also be used to support Home Guard units, as well as to protect British VIP convoys (think Churchill)! From their 1930s deployment history, they look like they could be used to support the Ford A pick ups as well.
"In January 1929 the first Lanchesters (along with Rolls-Royce Armoured Cars) were received by the 11th Hussars regiment. Because of slow rate of delivery, it took until 1934 to fully equip the unit. In November the regiment was relocated to Egypt to relieve the 12th Royal Lancers, which returned to Britain and took over the cars. In January-February 1935 a provisional D squadron of the 12th Lancers with eight armoured cars served as a peacekeeping force in the Saar region. On 31 December B and C squadrons were sent again to Egypt with 29 armoured cars as a response to Italian invasion of Abyssinia and strengthening garrisons in Libya. They were used in patrolling the western frontier. By the end of the year the squadrons were returned to Britain, where the regiment was reequipped with Morris armoured cars.
By 1939, most Lanchesters (13 Mk I, 1 Mk Ia, 5 Mk II, 3 Mk IIA) were sent to the Far East and assigned to the Selangor and Perak battalions of Federal Malay States Volunteer Force, the Singapore Volunteer Corps, Strait Settlements Volunteer Force and the 2nd battalion of Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders in Malaya. Some of these took part in the Malayan Campaign (December 1941 - 15 February 1942) against Japan.
About 10 Lanchesters were given to the Territorial Army (23rd London Armoured Car Company and 1st Derbyshire Yeomanry). In 1940 one was converted for use by cabinet ministers and other VIPs. In 1941 two were given to the 1st Belgian Armoured Cars squadron."
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Dominic, don't forget, the Copplestone brits are huge ones, the rest of the 28mm historical world is a bit smaller. I know not small enough for that little car but you must not take these brits to comparison.
(http://forum.backofbeyond.de/images/misc/07_05_29_armored_car_rolls_royce.jpg)
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thx Prof - still a bit undersized though.
does anybody else make one closer to actual size?
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I don't know if you've seen this (bottom of the page)?
any idea if its a "suitable" size though? there's a german diecast at around 1/60 also but its waaaay too big... 'scales' are so far off at times.
Siku are supposedly 1/55, but if you think 1/60 is too big, its going to being even bigger.
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Could be worth a visit to Bovington with a tape measure. There is a show there first weekend of July (Battlegroup South ?), which on previous years has allowed gamers to camp in the museum grounds. Nice little show, but absolutely great museum.
Personally I like the Crossleys or Lanchester, but the Rolls does look good:
http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/news/pr_rollsroyce_200804.html
You might also consider something like the Vickers light tanks. I know they are out in 1/72 (JJB Models used to make a couple of versions) and there was a Dinky diecast, but I haven't seen one in 28mm.
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Fastrolfus - Chieftain Models does a Vickers Light Tank:
(http://www.chieftainmodels.co.uk/vickerslighttank1tj9.jpg)
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thx Prof - still a bit undersized though.
does anybody else make one closer to actual size?
Have a look for a Matchbox Models of Yesteryear version. 1/48th scale, prepainted. Got mine off eBay for the same price as the Copplestone one
(http://www.nick101.f9.co.uk/T/LA/RR.JPG)
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So, what would I like to see and what's on the market?
It's no real problem to get Ford T or Ford A vans or Chevy Trucks. WW1 tanks are available from brigade and others.
What I never found are the following:
- WW1 or pre-WW1 trucks
- Armoured trains
- non-british/US trucks of the 20ies and 30ies (preferably german or french)
The french halftrack would be great.
Some company had or has an Austin-Putiloc armoured car, a better looking version would be nice.
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- WW1 or pre-WW1 trucks
- non-british/US trucks of the 20ies and 30ies (preferably german or french)
got any names of manufacturers or images/links?
I'm quite interested in doing german/french stuff as, as you say yourself, there doesn't appear to be much of it about - at least not in the English language sites/stores.
citroen french trucks presumably for one....?
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Hi
I'll try and get some pics up plus some suggestions too.
Many Thanks.
God Bless
Helen
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Auton do you have a picture of your Rolls Royce with 28mm figures ?
I realy like that one looks like Ma Walton gos to war
(http://www.dminis.com/images/img.1181187581369.jpg)
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Auton do you have a picture of your Rolls Royce with 28mm figures ?
I realy like that one looks like Ma Walton gos to war
(http://www.dminis.com/images/img.1181187581369.jpg)
I've got this very model minus the machine gun! It is an anobynous O-scale railroad kit I picked up in a bargain bin.
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Auton do you have a picture of your Rolls Royce with 28mm figures ?
Certainly do, next to a Copplestone Chinese officer I'm working on (more of these later..)
(http://www.nick101.f9.co.uk/T/LA/RRAC.jpg)
Thought it a little big until I found this photo
(http://www.nick101.f9.co.uk/T/LA/634.jpg)
Oh forgot to mention, the Matchbox model is listed as a special limited edition.
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Yes, that Matchbox model is hard to get. 1 or 2 models appear now and then on Ebay, and it gets bid up to around GBP15 or 20.
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the roller is still a "goer" then i think - certainly the later one is much closer to "true size". - its a big vehicle.
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- WW1 or pre-WW1 trucks
- non-british/US trucks of the 20ies and 30ies (preferably german or french)
got any names of manufacturers or images/links?
I'm quite interested in doing german/french stuff as, as you say yourself, there doesn't appear to be much of it about - at least not in the English language sites/stores.
citroen french trucks presumably for one....?
(http://www.museum-sinsheim.de/highlights/landmaschinen/opel-regellastwagen_400.jpg)
This is an Opel "Regellastwagen" from the technical museum in Sinsheim between Heidelberg and Heilbronn. The German Reich (imperial) sponsored buying lorries with a certain degree of unification. In exchange, the government got the right to require these trucks in case of war.
What you can't see is that it's got a chain drive like a motorbike.
Several years ago a collector in our area had a NAG Truck (pre-WW1), but I haven't seen it fopr years and he sold much of his collection by now, so I can't tell if he still owns it.
Another source for trucks should be Lewis Milestones 'All quiet on the western front". Though I think these will be american ones.
My father has an old book from around 1950 with technical details for trucks of that time, amongst them some which predate WW2.
Here are some names with year of going into production:
Borgward
- L2000S 1,5t - 1939-1942
- 3tonner - 1938-1941
Büssing-NAG
- Burglöwe 25 + 30 (2,5 + 3t) - 1938+
- 650 (6t) - 1937-39
Daimler-Benz
- L2000/L2500 (2t/2,5t) - 1936-40
- L3000 (3,3t) - 1937-41
- L3750 (4t) - 1936-41
- L6500 (7t) - 1938-40
Faun
- L600 D567 (6,5t) - 1938-40
- L900 D567 (8,8t) - 1938-39 (9,6m length!)
Ford
- BB LKW (2,5t) 1932-39
Henschel
- 25T1, 30T1 + 30T2 (2,5t / 3t) - 1936-39
- 40S1+2 (4,7t) - 1937-45
- 5G1, 5G2, 5G3 (5,5t) - 1933-39
- 33G1 (3,5t) - 1938-43
- 6J1. 6J2, 6J3 (6,1t/5,9t/5,7t) - 1934-42
- 36W3 (9t) - 1936-40 (10,2m length!)
KHD (Klöckner-Humboldt-Deutz) Magirus (also Magirus-Deutz)
- L30a (3t) - 1936-40
- L235 (4,1t) - 1938-40
- L145 (4,5t) - 1938-40
Krupp (Südwerke)
- L2,5H242 (2,5t) - 1932-33
- L2H242 (2t) - 1935-37
- L3,5M242 (3,5t) - 1937-38
- L4M262 (4t) - 1936-40
- LD,5M222 (3,5t) - 19837-38
- L6,5N242 (6,5t) - 1937-40
Opel
- Blitz 1t, 2t, 3z - 1934 onwards
Phänomen
- Granit 25 (1,5t) 1929-39
Saurer
- BT4500 or 4BTDVS (5,5t) - 1938-44
VOMAG
- 3LR443 (3,5t) - 1936-41
- 5LR44B (5t) - 1936-40
- 6LR652 (6,5t) - 1938-40
Some more companies who made trucks pre WW2:
GERMANY
Büssing
NAG (from 1928 onwards Büssing-NAG)
MAN
FRANCE
Renault
Citroen
Saviem
Berliet
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Hi Jed, I promised you a plan and some pics of the Lanchester 6x4.
Here you go:
(http://www.napnuts.com/images/lanchester_plan.jpg)
(http://www.napnuts.com/images/lanchester_front.jpg)
(http://www.napnuts.com/images/lanchester_side.jpg)
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Polioketes -
HLBS used to make an Austin Putilov but I think that's gone from their range now. Don't know about anyone else off hand.
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Here is a nice looking truck:
(http://[img]http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/FordTruckWW1.jpg)[/img]
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And another:
(http://[img]http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/AsienKorps2.jpg)[/img]
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I'm still trying to find what armoured auto MG car they used in Palestine, but this maybe very close to the mark as described from the Book on the Australians in Palestine official history. There was a chase by Allied T Fords against German trucks an a armoured car. Now it could have been a captured Rolls, but we can only speculate what it maybe. The Turks did capture a rolls during the campaign in Palestine.
(http://[img]http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/auto_501.jpg)[/img]
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How about the cars from the movie "The Great Race"
Professor Fate's Hannibal 8 http://www.petersen.org/images/Exhibitimages/hannibal8-1965greatrace.jpg
or the Great Leslie Special!
http://aodhansforge.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/GreatRace.jpg
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I doubt there is a real market for Chitty-chitty-bang-bang cars...
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Not sure if there has been some kind of SNAFU with with your posting or if it's just me, but I'm not seeing your pics there, Helen.
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Oh dear, if they are well done and reasonably priced (say, 10-20,- € apiece rather than the 100$+ that "collector items" cost), I´d love to see those two! "The Great Race" is my absolute favourite when it comes to nostalgic pre-1914 movies... "Those Magnificent Men" and "Rocket to the Moon" being close runners-up.
Of course, one single enthusiast won´t be enough for the Hannibal 8. Too bad about that.
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Not sure if there has been some kind of SNAFU with with your posting or if it's just me, but I'm not seeing your pics there, Helen.
Hi Poly, Yikes, sorrry, I hope you can see them now. :)
God Bless
Helen
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Yep, that's fixed it. :)
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Wasn't "The Great Race" the original inspiration for the "Wacky Racers" cartoon ?
The other race themed film with interesting vehicles might possibly be "Monte carlo or Bust".
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Correct on the Wacky Racers and The Great Race ref. Several of the racers in the cartoon were inspired from the film. And the sound engineer on the movie had worked for Warner Bros on all the Bugs Bunny cartoons. (yes, different studio...but the spirit was there...)
OK, yes..these may be niche items...but there is no model of these cars available really...even for toy collectors. So there might be a broader market out there beyond gaming for them.
REVIRESCO does make a Hannibal 8. But it's 1/64 scale. It's very small...
http://www.tin-soldier.com/6wheel.htm
(http://www.tin-soldier.com/fatesnow2.JPG)
(http://www.tin-soldier.com/images/fatecar2.jpg)[/img]
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Here is a nice looking truck:
(http://[img]http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/FordTruckWW1.jpg)[/img]
Love this truck Helen - would be nice to build with the wood and canvas etc... what is it?
I'm doing the Lanchester for certain btw Dominic.
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Here is a nice looking truck:
Love this truck Helen - would be nice to build with the wood and canvas etc... what is it?
I'm doing the Lanchester for certain btw Dominic.
Antenociti
I took the picture from a French Site on their collection of cars and trucks. I'm speculating its French, but can't be sure. I've had this picture for a long time. Will look into it.
My Picture Title says Ford WW1.
Have you tried the "Landships" site for motor vehicles?
The Lanchester A/C is a good selection. :)
God Bless
Helen
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/index.htm
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Might be french, but at that time many if not most french cars had a curved front like these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Taxis_of_the_Marne.jpg
btw, this is a must for early WW1, the Marne-Taxi
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How about a small warship? Something like the small Royal Navy M Classes of monitor - ideal for teaching Johnny Bolshevik a lesson or two...
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/wwars/M33.html
By the way M33, a veteran of WW I (including Gallipoli) and the Russian Revolution is currently being restored at Portsmouth.
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How about a small warship? Something like the small Royal Navy M Classes of monitor - ideal for teaching Johnny Bolshevik a lesson or two...
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/wwars/M33.html
By the way M33, a veteran of WW I (including Gallipoli) and the Russian Revolution is currently being restored at Portsmouth.
Already doing a "ship", well, a waterline model of a type VII U-boat, but its close enough I guess.
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The Model Company RPM make a number of WW1 vehicles in 1/72 scale. Here is one such model:
(http://[img]http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/FordA1.jpg)[/img]