Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Delaney on June 17, 2010, 07:08:54 AM
-
****Update - PDF Beta 1.3 now available. ***
****http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_latest.pdf (http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_latest.pdf) ****
Recently I got held up with the flu and spent a few days parked on a sofa next to my wargames table my wife and I had been playing SBH on.
So naturally I wrote a new skirmish game system. As you do.
I ended up with a draft of a rules light skirmish system that seems to work pretty well when your suffering from flu and whacked up on codene and panadol. I figure that means it should be playable drunk and tired, both good things in my book for a system. The idea was to make something without needing to hold any numbers in your head, check any tables or do any maths after the dice hit the table, so you get that 'hangs on a dice roll' feeling without the pause. The only math is simple adding up of dice. You never need to check your opponents math, either, so good for playing strangers, and you can expand your force beyond ten or so figures without major slow downs.
Seems to work okay. Would have to playtest it though.
Question is, should I bother getting a playtest version together? Do you think there is room for another indie fantasy .PDF skirmish system? Anyone interested in gaving it a bash?
Thoughts anyone?
-
I'm up for playtesting. I'm sorted for sci-fi skirmish rules at the minute and I could do with some fantasy rules that aren't WHFB.
-
Sure, there's room for it. Especially if it has other activation mechanics than SBH...
-
I'd be game!
If I ever get time for one...
-
Okay then - I guess I will get the playetest .PDF together.
:)
Regarding activation, the one I have been playing is...
activate all your guys one by one, only making movements- at any stage you can 'gamble for initiative' after first moving a model- representing someone being risky, clever or overextending themselves. You roll any number of action dice, but any fails results in your turn ending. Most normal human guys have an initiative of 3 or less on a d6. Elites get 4, heroes have 5. You can also have 1+1, 1+2 - who get one automatic success and an initiative of 1 for additional, so on and so forth.
If you roll all passes you win that number of action points. You can make as many extra move actions up to your movement score (dwarves 0- they only get their free move, humans 2, High elves 3, armoured foot knights 1). This, by the way, simplifies all movement to 1 measurement- every foot troop makes the same movement - a span (3 x standard humanoid base hop (so 4 inches for 25mm))- only those with good initiatives can therefore manoeuvre around obstacles quickly. Mounted troops make long moves instead and use their mounts move score- a long move is 3x your span. These are the only two measurements used in game- so you can stick a span stick to the end of a triple span to make a T bar- which you can use to push troops around the table like a WWII tactician. Woo.
You can also announce you want to 'roll reckless' - if you fail on any initiative dice, then you still may perform 1 action point worth of actions- however after the action is resolved your model becomes 'downed'- representing a stunned, confused, slipped over or knocked down model. A downed model receives another downed result is removed from play. So in a pinch if you have a wounded 'downed' model, he can throw himself into one glorious last attack- (pulling himself up that spear and biting out the enemies throat).
This system allows you to be confident that you can at least move every single one of your units- and at any time you can risk gaining the drop on your opponent by gaining initiative. Also, having to make a move, then gamble means you can pop a dude out from cover to shoot, only to find he gets stuck in the open.
For 1 action point you can gain initiative in combat (aka make an attack)- the initiator of combat gains an advantage in combat. The idea being all models in base to base are assumed to be fighting the minute they touch- only they are trading ineffective blows- it is only when one gains the initiative does something happen. And it always does - combat rolls always results in a change- there are no stalemates. A draw is handed to the attacking player as a knock back, thrown (if bigger) or driven back result.
-
Sounds good. Just to clarify, is the span based on the miniature's base size or is it just a straight 4" even if the mini is on a 20mm base?
-
Sounds interesting - now, let's see the playtest rules >:D ;)
No, really, there seems to be some new thoughts in there, so I'd like to try it out.
I am VERY enamoured with the SBH-engine because of its simplicity and versatility. If you come up with something similarly playable, there should be room for it.
EDIT:
And if it's really good, I'll also buy the published version ;)
-
Yes, a span is 3x base size for your standard human.
So if your playing with 10mm figures glued on 5c coins its 3x the width of coins for the hop stick. Therefore you can play any scale, including 50mm if you like.
A model in the game is anything crammed on a base, so you can play or or even ten men to a base if you like.
-
Thats what I like about SBH too, and the old school illustration styles took me back to Tunnels and Trolls days. Big smiles all round when I bought it (anyone who hasnt tried it should definately buy a copy and give it a go btw.)
So the core difference in my attempt is that I dont like the 'roll a dice, add your modifiers and compare result' based systems- AD&D being another culprit- because you miss out on the excitement of everything hanging on a dice roll. Its roll a dice, pause, check your math, check your opponents math and then discuss. No drama. I much prefer roll against a target number based systems- once you know what you need to hit, you get the tension of a craps shoot.
The core mechanic is you get 1 dice and must roll equal or under your units attribute to score a dice hit. You get additional dice for stategic advantages, such as higher ground, fighting a smaller foe, etc You only ever add extra dice, you never take them off- so if your at a disadvantage, its your opponent who gets an extra dice. Both announce their dice hits. Highest wins- on a draw attacker can knock back the foe or drive them back (move them back, but then move to stay in base contact), beat their score by their toughness score and you kill them outright- otherwise they are downed.
Units seperate melee, shooting and magic scores. On all attributes the Higher the better.
The system also streamlines rolls by putting the emphasis on initiative rolls to win actions. The idea is if you roll initiative and win an action point, you don't need to roll to see if the action you spent it on is successful- it is. You already passed the roll you needed to do it. You simply buy the actions you want to perform and it happens.
There is no 'free hack' type mechanic in this system at all. You can pay an extra action to do an attack without risk of damage coming back at you, but being knocked into an enemy unit does not trigger an attack. To disengage you spend 1 ap, which moves you back your base width- you are then free to run away if you desire. Fear works in a totally different way too, you get a panic counter which gives the enemy a bonus dice against you, which you can buy off with 1 action, but only when your 1 long range from an enemy- so effectively you choose to fall back or route.
aaaanyway, having a blast writing the pdf- will post link shortly.
-
Sounds really good! Should lead to fast-paced and tense games - look forward to seeing the pdf!
-
And here... we... go...
Project "Skulldred" any scale skirmish rules, beta 1.01
Free to download on the proviso you play it and let me know how it went...
http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_1_01.pdf (http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_1_01.pdf)
-
Very elegant mechanics, I'm giving this a go as soon as possible.
-
Free to download on the proviso you play it and let me know how it went...
http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_1_01.pdf (http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_1_01.pdf)
/yoink
Vacation time coming up, will try the rules out next week. As I'm at work, I've only had the chance to quickly scroll through the doc. Looks good!
-
Very impressive after a quick browse, the rules look very solid! ;)
-
Downloaded and printed - will start reading them on the train back from work....
-
I spent best part of a 3 hour meeting this morning thinking about which mini from my lead pile I should paint as a leader for my chaos dwarf warband, so even if i don't end up playing any games of Skuldred you've at least got my painting mojo working again!
I'm pleased that my work in the LPL has given me few a battle-ready warbands, might throw some skeletons at the chaos dwarfs at some point.
-
Thanks Tacgnol- I am dying to see what you come up with!
Well, I can safely say that, considering I am also releasing these miniatures shortly (www.bederken.blogspot.com) that Skulldred's gonna support evil dwarves.
Cheers Heldrak, hope they hold up.
-
wow! it looks really interesting! :) i'll take a read for shure o_o
-
I confess, the hex bases in the illustrations made me feel all nostalgic...! ;)
-
Well, I can safely say that, considering I am also releasing these miniatures shortly (www.bederken.blogspot.com) that Skulldred's gonna support evil dwarves.
I guess that answers the PM I just sent you on Frothers! Now quit w/ this game thingy, and get those dwarves released! :)
-
Forgot the printout at work... am printing another copy right now...
-
Nice rules and the presentation is great!
I like the concept of "Action Points"; my game group have been using it for years with our modified Warhammer/Mordheim combat rules - it breaks the strandard "turn sequence" (first you move, than shoot, then combat, then...) and increases the freedom of action, which I think is very important for a character-based game (as any small scale skirmish game is supposed to be anyway).
I wish you all the best with this nice project of yours! :)
-
Clarify please - if you try to test initiative and you fail, do you immediately lose your turn or do you get whatever APs you generated?
-
Wow - wish I could produce pdfs that look that good - not that I've tried - love the movement photos with the ghosted out minis!
Looks brilliant from a quick browse but I'll have to peruse it later for some bedtime reading!
Think I'll try out a little offshoot scenario for Orc's Drift I've been mulling over following the misfortune that befalls the Wood Elf patrol that never made it back to the garrison at Kachas Pass - this weekend isn't looking too full either... >:D
Need to paint more of Skarloc's bunch first...
Well, I can safely say that, considering I am also releasing these miniatures shortly (www.bederken.blogspot.com) that Skulldred's gonna support evil dwarves.
I guess that answers the PM I just sent you on Frothers! Now quit w/ this game thingy, and get those dwarves released!
Ever get anywhere with those rhinomen we spoke off ages ago? ;)
Oh and the dwarves look great - might have to partake of those as well!
-
Any fails result in the immediate end of your go, so you don't get to spend those points. Notice the reckless rules- if you risk downing your model you can spend 1 action point before passing play to the next player. Its all about risking regular, safe, organised moves vs doing something crazy and risky.
You have no limit on the number of action dice you try to roll, because it increases the odds your going to roll a single fail- therefore if your really, really jammy you can have a character perform a stack of actions. He could go from cowering in a bloody heap at his enemies feet to making a recovery action, disengage, spot three hidden enemy, run halfway across the battlefield an dive into a bush and hide. The odds are not good, but its possible- you would need to roll all hits on eight dice.
Its those moments you treasure, isn't it? :)
On the minis front, I have that prototype Rhinoman sculpt about 60% of the way done- I have been making his hyde with little odd bits of putty left over from the Dwergs. So those two projects are linked.
On the Dwerg front, I haven't been sculpting lately because of a huge 3D work load followed by the inevitable man flu you come down with after a huge deadline. All thats left on the Dwergs is all the really fine fiddly bits on a couple. Very... very... soon....
-
On the minis front, I have that prototype Rhinoman sculpt about 60% of the way done-
Judging from your Dwergs they are going to be amazing!
Sorry to go off on a tangent from your original thread but any sneaky pics you'd care to share?
Back on topic - I can see many an excellent game resulting from heroic dice rolls! >:D
-
You have no limit on the number of action dice you try to roll, because it increases the odds your going to roll a single fail- therefore if your really, really jammy you can have a character perform a stack of actions. He could go from cowering in a bloody heap at his enemies feet to making a recovery action, disengage, spot three hidden enemy, run halfway across the battlefield an dive into a bush and hide. The odds are not good, but its possible- you would need to roll all hits on eight dice.
Ahh, I think I've misinterpreted the rules. I thought the Initiative score was the amount of extra actions you could roll for and also the number you had to roll equal to or under to gain extra moves. Thanks for the clarification. :)
-
Nice to see some local activity! I think I might be the only person in Sydney who doesn't have a cold at the moment!
I'll be keen to check out these rules.
-
I'm not quite through reading (football got in the way), but I like what I read so far. Should make for an interesting playtest as soon as my gaming buddy's brother leaves back for Spain... (in a couple of weeks.. :( )
-
An a thought: Are you going to sell your minis yourself, or are the greens sold to other manufacturers?
-
Okay, I just uploaded beta 1.02. Sorry to do such a fast update for those of you that printed the whole thing out. I promise I will go play with putty now.
****http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_1_02.pdf (http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_1_01.pdf) ****
Should be better worded for initiative, dodging is explained properly with diagrams and there are now distinct sections for fast learning. Just read basics, then you can do intermediate stuff (flying, poison, horses etc) and terrain stuff at your leisure.
Oh, and there is a table in the back that shows you your odds of rolling passes in initiative- its not required to play the game- there will be NO tables required. I forbid it. The one in the book is purely for people wanting to know what the odds where when they pulled off that awesome combo.
Anyway....
Enjoy.
-
I sell them myself- getting them manufactured for me so they are extremely professional castings.
-
It appears that all movement must be in a straight line - is this accurate?
-
I think so - the 'measuring stick' is very similar to SBH.
I like the mele rule, that if you BEAT your opponent, but NOT KILL, you down him.
My gaming pal and I were discussing the SBH 'Recoil/Fallen' rule fter a game with only Big models on one side. It seemed odd that a medium or small model has 50% chance of tipping a big model if they beat him, and the big model has the same. We discussed to maybe make it a house rule that you only tip a model if you beat it with more than 2, but do not kill it. Would make it harder to topple a big or huge model, as they get a combat bonus due to size.
WHAT I WANTED TO SAY by this, is, with the set number of hits required to kill, there's not so much fuss about the 'downing'. Just count yourself lucky that your model is still on the table, instead of lamenting that your opponent rolled an even number instead of an odd one, when beating you.
So far, so good. I'm yet to finish reading through the rules, as the real estate agent called my on my way home on the train.... we get to buy a house at the price we bid - so if everything goes to plan, this fall I'll have a HUGE garage with a separate workshop, and a HUGE attic for storage - and maybe gaming, when we get it insulated.... :D
-
Did my reading. Like the rules - will try out a bit of solo gaming during the coming weekend.
The rules for Treacherous Terrain confuse me a bit, but I'll try them out.
It also seem a bit hard for cavalry with low melee stat to attack (trample) - as only one die is rolled, and failure means that the cavalry model is downed. Even light cavalry should be at a considerable advantage against at least normal and small-sized infantry in a skirmish game (if you look at it historically, light cavalry was typically used for skirmishes and/or for running down troops not in a proper formation).
Just my opinion.
-
My venomous ninja cyborg hell dog mounted on a flying hydra attacks you with his mind control
lol lol lol
It's all coming together really nicely, I like the rules for icons and the expansion on the overwatch rules is great.
-
My venomous ninja cyborg hell dog mounted on a flying hydra attacks you with his mind control
I know what my next project is going to be! lol
Great stuff Dave!
-
Okay, I just uploaded beta 1.02. Sorry to do such a fast update for those of you that printed the whole thing out. I promise I will go play with putty now.
****http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_1_02.pdf (http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_1_01.pdf) ****
Should be better worded for initiative, dodging is explained properly with diagrams and there are now distinct sections for fast learning. Just read basics, then you can do intermediate stuff (flying, poison, horses etc) and terrain stuff at your leisure.
Oh, and there is a table in the back that shows you your odds of rolling passes in initiative- its not required to play the game- there will be NO tables required. I forbid it. The one in the book is purely for people wanting to know what the odds where when they pulled off that awesome combo.
Anyway....
Enjoy.
Tried to download the updated version but it shows to be the "1.01" all the time.
Checked it quickly with the printed version I have and it seems to be the same.
Have I done something wrong?
After the first quick reading the rules looks nice, hope to try them soon.
Cheers
-
It also seem a bit hard for cavalry with low melee stat to attack (trample) - as only one die is rolled, and failure means that the cavalry model is downed. Even light cavalry should be at a considerable advantage against at least normal and small-sized infantry in a skirmish game (if you look at it historically, light cavalry was typically used for skirmishes and/or for running down troops not in a proper formation).
How about making it a bit easier for cavalry to trample, but make Trample depending on relative size of models instead (f.x. when at least 2 or 3 sizes bigger).
Difficult/Treacherous Terrain:
If I understand it correctly, Treacherous Terrain does not reduce movement in the same way as Difficult Terrain (you can move your full move, and also as your free move?)?
Concentrated Fire
Question: Does the commanding model have to be an archer, or can any commanding model direct CF?
Suggestion: I'd like to see a rule that allows a commanding model to direct Indirect Fire towards a target visible by him/her, but not to the shooters. Target would get bonus dice to dodge/avoid the attack (Think of the scene in LotR:TT where Aragorn commands the Elves behind the deeping wall to fire at the Uruk-hai outside).
-
Tried to download the updated version but it shows to be the "1.01" all the time.
Checked it quickly with the printed version I have and it seems to be the same.
Have I done something wrong?
After the first quick reading the rules looks nice, hope to try them soon.
Cheers
You'll have to do it manually, just change 1.01 to 1.02 in the address bar and it works.
-
You'll have to do it manually, just change 1.01 to 1.02 in the address bar and it works.
Thanks, it worked ;)
-
Awesome to see everyone getting into this crazy little project!
Answers:
Yes, you can move normally through treacherous ground- it will just hurt you to do so. Cautious moves are safe. (You can choose to run through cactus if you like.)
Yes, each individual movement is in a dead straight line. No exceptions. You could make three moves to go around someone, but it requires initiative or patience. Anyone who has played paintball know its not how fast you can run to that cover- but how quickly you can safely stop ;)
Good idea on spotting for your archers- how about if a shooter can see someone who can see the target, they can fire at it- however the defender gets 2 extra dice to defend to reflect the indirect nature of the attack. That way you can use scouts and walls in combination to devastating effect on fairly large enemy.
-
Good idea on spotting for your archers- how about if a shooter can see someone who can see the target, they can fire at it- however the defender gets 2 extra dice to defend to reflect the indirect nature of the attack. That way you can use scouts and walls in combination to devastating effect on fairly large enemy.
Definitely works for me! :) (Aragorn actually carries a bow in some versions - just like a true Ranger of the North should ;) )
-
Okay. Major streamline in version 3- this flips a lot of stuff up into the air. Sorry, price of games development and testing!
http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_latest.pdf (http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/skulldred_beta_latest.pdf)
From now on, I am posting the latest beta to the same place and renaming it- so you can set up a link to grab the latest version.
You can also download the counters as a separate jpg.
http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/counters.jpg (http://www.daveking.com.au/articles/skirmish/counters.jpg)
Okay some major changes. See if this is more elegant. Its weird, but it actually makes sense once you play it.... hopefully.
First, now SIZE is used as your target numbers- NOT your melee or shoot attributes. Instead, melee and shoot define the number of dice you roll, before you add any bonus dice.
When you shoot someone, your aiming at THEIR size score (so pixies are hard to shoot, giants easy) and they are rolling THEIR OWN size (so pixies are easy to kill if you hit them, giants not so).
In melee, you roll your OWN size only. Giants are therefore lethal and pixies, er, not so. Humans are size 3- and I have made dwarves and big orcs size 3 to make this work.
So why? Well, it means that you roll much less dice in shooting. Attributes work like bonus dice, in effect- so normal troops roll 1- heroes more. This means the system is scalable- you can have mega, mega powered heroes running up against each other in campaign. You can also tell a creatures target number by looking at it- big guys like ogres hit on 4, half sized people who like rings and have curly haired feet hit on a 2.
So you can say, oh, thats an ogre hero and pretty much know the scores. He is a size 4, with +2 melee dice.
In version 1.02, two tiny fairees armed with bows can take out a giant in one round. Bahhh bahhh. Wrong. Try it now.
Second- and this is a biggie too. When you FAIL an initiative test, your model is DOWNED. Alternatively you may elect to SACRIFICE YOUR GO INSTEAD of downing the character. Therefore if a downed unit fails an initiative test, they are not removed from play as 'killed' if you don't want them to. Likewise, if you charge a knight into a bunch of enemy, and he fails his roll, you certainly dont want him downed. Sacrifice your go instead and he remains standing.
Third- all model stats have changed to reflect the tweaked dice system- so you will find a lot of work done to the sample stats.
Fourth- some abilities are now in. Check out pairing characters, poison strike, height shy.
Fifth- totally new charging rules- see if these work better.
Sixth- You can now.... command to shoot over walls. You don't have to be an archer to do it. ;)
Enjoy.
BTW- Congrats on your house! I am jealous- have no garage!!!!!
-
Fifth- totally new charging rules- see if these work better.
Sixth- You can now.... command to shoot over walls. You don't have to be an archer to do it. ;)
BTW- Congrats on your house! I am jealous- have no garage!!!!!
Thanks!
I shall be looking into this (I just downloaded and printed version 1.02 at work - will go into my scrap paper pile now lol ).
I'm almost as excited about where this ends as about the most important foosball game (played tonight against japan) played by a Danish national team for the last 15 years or so... lol
-
More bedtime reading - particularly like the sound of the new shooting/melee rules! :D
-
And now theres....
http://skulldred.blogspot.com/
-
...
Second- and this is a biggie too. When you FAIL an initiative test, your model is DOWNED. Alternatively you may elect to SACRIFICE YOUR GO INSTEAD of downing the character. Therefore if a downed unit fails an initiative test, they are not removed from play as 'killed' if you don't want them to. Likewise, if you charge a knight into a bunch of enemy, and he fails his roll, you certainly dont want him downed. Sacrifice your go instead and he remains standing.
...
I really like this new option! I'll try your rules (only reading so far) ASAP as they look really interesting and fun.
Thanks!
-
Thanks!
I cannot wait to see some pic heavy battle reports :)
-
Signed up at the blog, and shall try to read the latest rules on the train this afternoon :)
-
Thanks!
I cannot wait to see some pic heavy battle reports :)
I'll definately put some in my blog, but not in the following weeks as real life is kicking my ass lately
-
Been playing a game this afternoon - great fun but I've got a couple of questions (hopefully not too daft!) regarding shooting and melee -
Have I got the rules straight -
Shooter rolls same number of dice as his shoot score.
He has to get uner or equal to size of target to hit.
Once the target is hit it rolls the same number of dice as its melee score but must roll equal to or uner their size.
If the shooter has more hits compare number of hits against target's toughness and remove from play, down or dodge the hit mini.
If you move into base to base contact with an enemy model spending 1 action point on moving do you have to take an initiative roll for a melee attack or automatically roll to decide the fight?
and just to check - do you have to roll for initiative to right a downed model or does it get to use its free action point for this?
Should finish the game tomorrow (crying babies and toddlers and a party tonight interrupted play!) and get some nice piccies up!
-
Cool you enjoyed it.
Re: shooter rules, yep. Thats it.
Attacks are actions, and so cost 1ap. If you have moved for your free action, you must roll initiative for more actions. Bear in mind that attacking gives you an advantage if you get the draw, because you drive back the defender- if they have foolishly left no room behind them, and you attack from the right angle- its like getting a hit in. Its perfectly fine to run up and engage an opponent and wait for him to attack you if he has no mates nearby- it will let you rush up some extra figures for gang ups. Often though, you want to gain the initiative and put that sucker down before his mates can come help.
Currently if your downed, you dont get a free action. Therefore you have to roll initiative to stand. This means stupid characters may take a while to recover from being downed. I think this may be too harsh- it was meant to simulate dumb characters taking time to get their stuff together from confusion or concussion. Another option may be that you can recover as your free action, but cannot roll initiative when downed. Lass harsh.
-
Cheers Dave - its a great set of rules
This means stupid characters may take a while to recover from being downed. I think this may be too harsh- it was meant to simulate dumb characters taking time to get their stuff together from confusion or concussion. Another option may be that you can recover as your free action, but cannot roll initiative when downed. Lass harsh.
Sounds right although the wife's elf hero fell over while trying to rush across the battlefield - he then took 2 turns to get back up again (admittedly because of some very unlucky rolls of 5s and 6s!), which was all very humorous for my orcs as they swarmed over to his prone body! He did get up in the nick of time and successfully ran half the width of the table to catch his comrades up who'd left him for dead! lol
One more question when something like a troll takes 1 hit in combat do you reduce his toughness by 1 (like taking wounds in WFB) or is being downed punishment enough and to kill him outright his opponents need to score 5 hits to beat his toughness score of 4 in the next round?
Should finish the game later today and I'll go back and take some "staged shots" and hopefully post them tonight...
-
Currently if your downed, you dont get a free action. Therefore you have to roll initiative to stand. This means stupid characters may take a while to recover from being downed. I think this may be too harsh-
I concur. Zombies will never stand up when downed under this rule. Let models use their free action, but make a roll to recover. Maybe have a set number for recovery, roll your initiatvie +1 die to recover (you can have initiative 0, so you have to have at least one die, anyway)?
-
Lol- you can just imagine the elf champion standing in the battlefield looking around wondering if she should run away or press on.
Yep, its not right.
So try this instead.
- A downed model cannot make a free action.
- A downed model may recover instead of rolling for initiative. This is called a free recover.
- A downed model may roll for initiative and spend the first won action recovering. It may then perform the next actions as per normal
- A model with the clumsyability may not free recover. It must roll initiative to stand up.
- A model that is not engaged will not die if rolling a second downed result- it simply stays down.
Toughness stays the same no matter what- attribute numbers never change mid game is a golden rule. No numbers in the head.
However, I am thinking for larger creatures that they take wound counters. When downed, any downed result adds a wound counter to the enemy card. Or, simply stack up downed counters to represent this on the unit card. Enemy get 1 dice bonus for each wound a monster takes.
-
Printed and read during the weekend, have a game scheduled for the week.
-
Those downed rules work well now with the free recover and option for initiative roll - although with initiative 3 (the hero had been cut down a while back - more of which later!) the wife's elves did keep falling over a lot whilst trying to flee the oncoming horde but I guess that was down to some terrible dice rolls - loads of 4s, 5s and 6s!
We played the troll as having wounds which seemed to work but kept the little guys' toughness the same - one more question (sorry - I have read the rues through - honest!) when working out combat do successful hits cancel each other out - e.g. Elf hero lands 3 hits on orc warrior - orc rolls 2 hits in defence - elf wins with 1 hit on the orc which downs him but doesn't kill him because of his toughness score of 2.
Finished the game last night but didn't get chance to take pics before some friends came round for a BBQ - will post later today... >:D
Look forward to reading about your game Phreedh!
-
- A downed model cannot make a free action.
- A downed model may recover instead of rolling for initiative. This is called a free recover.
- A downed model may roll for initiative and spend the first won action recovering. It may then perform the next actions as per normal
- A model with the clumsyability may not free recover. It must roll initiative to stand up.
- A model that is not engaged will not die if rolling a second downed result- it simply stays down.
This seems better. I missed out on trying out the rules because of the extremely nice weather that meant I had to do gardening and play with my two little girls (I took out my 2 old softballs gloves and a ball and taught them to catch).
One of the evenings during this week I should manage to get a few minis on the table, though!
-
I have a week of vacation now while my wife is working, so I've invited a mate to stay over for a few days of non-stop gaming. I would be VERY surprised if I haven't played a game or two of Skulldred by the start of next week. :)
-
Ahh awesome- I get back from a few weeks of on site work and second bout of illness, then come see that battle report! Brilliant!
Hope everyone gets a chance to play- my feeling is the activation rules need consideration- but if everyone could have a play with the core combat system and let me know how it feels that would be great. :)
-
I agree - in my game it was quite difficult for rank and file elves to perform more than one action without falling on their faces, which didn't seem quite right - no surfboarding shields down stairs and jumping on the backs of large pachyderms for them! ;)
Perhaps a slight alteration could be that if they fail the activation role they just move normally or if 3 or models fail overall play passes over? Maybe if they fail the role disastrously then they are downed?
Will have to try another game at some point though to make sure! :D
-
Well Legolas wasn't a rank and file Elf, he was a champion - so I am guessing his initiative was considerably higher :) In theory if you had a leader nearby they should have had plenty of initiative.
However I am not satisfied with it- my main focus was every unit gets a go, then sometimes you can pull off extra stuff. However everyone wants to do lots of actions per round - and since its a skirmish game rather than a mass wargame, that's probably how it should be.
So how did the combat mechanics play?
-
In theory if you had a leader nearby they should have had plenty of initiative.
If you remember their great leader kept falling over! lol Got to say though that was due to some very unlucky dice rolls - where were all those sixes when we played WFB!
The combat mechanics were great - like you say its fun rolling at the same time knowing what number you want to see come up. The absence of endless tables and rolls to hit, wound and make an armour saving roll was nice too. :D
Even better when your character is downed, recovers and springs back to mete out vengeance on his foe! >:D
Using size to determine hits makes sense - the bigger you are the easier it is to squash your opponent!
Only thing I would really like to see is a move to melee action - to simulate a mini charging into combat - seems a little odd to engage an enemy and then give them the initiative when they attack you in their turn. I realise it gives better quality troops the edge in combat because they are more likely to pass an initiative test to attack once they've moved but even a regular elf risks being downed at his/her opponents feet, with only a 50/50 chance of rolling under their initiative.
Either way we had a blast playing Skulldred and will definitely be using it again... 8)
-
I just cracked open this pdf and the first thing that struck me were the illustrations, lol. This is some really nice, if a bit sparse, graphic design.
-
Heh, thanks 3vilx- really there shouldn't be any illustrations at this stage but I just love playing around with this stuff. :)
Very happy you liked the combat system Thantsants- thats really where the issues with other games is for me.
Lets see if we can debug the initiative system so it feels smooth and easy.
First thing that springs to mind,
- When a model is activated, it may either take two free action points, recover (2ap) or choose to gamble initiative.
- To gamble initiative, roll 1 dice under your (or your leaders) initiative score. In this version, all models get an ini of 3 or higher
- If equal to or under your initiative, the result on the dice is your action points.
- If over, your model looses its turn.
-
Sounds good - loads more potential for action and heroic deeds!
-
..and no one falls over. ::)
-
lol
-
Hey everyone- I would love to spread the word a bit about the playtest so I can get a wide range of feedback- maybe get some gaming groups involved... any ideas?
-
So some interesting points raised at WargamerAU.
The original mechanic whereby you could not recover using a free move meant being downed was scary- unless you where a high initiative type. Taking away the need to roll to recover is a mistake.
Any thoughts?
-
I think that would definitely make being downed more scary - would you make the likelihood of being downed a bit less or make players think twice about gambling for extra action points?
As for gaming groups - I'm game for more games - just don't have a right lot of time on my hands... :'(
-
You'd definitely have to make 'downed' less likely to happen it it's getting hard to get up - if it just removes the italics from here
• When a model is activated, it may either take two free action points, recover (2ap) or choose to gamble initiative.
• To gamble initiative, roll 1 dice under your (or your leaders) initiative score. In this version, all models get an ini of 3 or higher
• If equal to or under your initiative, the result on the dice is your action points.
• If over, your model looses its turn.
you still avoid models tripping over their own feet.
Now, I don't have the rules at hand right now, but does it use AP to dice for getting up? Or do you (originally) just dice to do so?
You could let the downed model add AP to it's dice roll to make it easier to get up. Or just dice without the risk of ending the turn. You could also let a downed model dice for initiative BEFORE rolling to get up, to get more points to add to the roll...
Just of the top of my head.
-
I'm going to make some time to get a game of Skulldred on tomorrow. I'll post my findings. :)
EDIT:
So between having to get keys for the new house cut, doing some ad hoc IT support for my mam's friend, a trip to the vet and my leaving do starting in an hour or so I've not been able to get a game in. Foiled again.
-
Know that feeling - have a good do! :D
-
Great look forward to hearing about it!
-
Now the rush has finished and I have a little time free, I will be fitting in the new Beta edition into my schedule.
I have revamped a fair bit, counters representing a forces combined morale, health, luck and spirit are now in play- these are spent recovering downed models instead of actions - its like having hit points for a whole army. Therefore you can strategically spend them on troops holding important positions, your big meanies or your heroes - it doesn't matter. Eventually, as the battle rages, everyone starts getting battle weary and can no longer stand... when no counters are left, death awaits all!
These counters can also be spent for free actions and bonus dice, depending on your models level.
The draws will also be changed to be more aggressive. The attacker now has a choice to knock you directly back, reposition himself anywhere touching your base, or press you back- you dodge, and he can move to stay with you. This means combat between equals can range all over the field, using strategic positioning to trap and weaken foes.
I am also adding 'back against the wall' penalty modifier- where a model cannot move freely due to an obstacle, the attacker gains a dice.
Thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated right about now, so I have time to ruminate.
-
I'm presuming there's an advantage in moving your attacker to the side/rear of his target after a draw?
Next dumb question - what's the difference between a knock back and press back -by the by I like the idea of forcing an enemy into a corner and gaining a combat dice!
The counters sound like a good idea - I'm sure yours are quite different but I did enjoy using the Havoc Counters when playing Havoc. :D
-
I read the rules last week (and sent you an email too), they look good. I can't wait to see the new ideas - I like the "army counters" idea. And I've always liked it when in hand-to-hand combat you could do things like swap places w/ your opponent, push them back, etc. - it's much more like in the movies!
-
Yes, a great deal of advantage - you can use your opponent to block shots, movement, pull yourself out of a spells effect - move past a blockade so you can sprint to a goal - that sort of thing. I like the idea of combat that ranges all over - one problem I had with SOBH is that normal battles tend to choke up in one area. I wanted the core mechanic to be more moveable.
Press back is where your opponent goes back a base width and you then move back to touch. Use it to push enemies into obstacles, onto difficult ground, into the oncoming path of mounted troops to block charges and so forth. The opponent places his model, using the current 'dodge' rules - then you can move to anywhere on his base before the combat mid line.
I have not read Havoc yet - I don't want to be seen to be influenced whilst designing this - but after I do definitely!
-
Sounds like combat is going to be pretty dynamic - good stuff! 8)