Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: tmdescovich on July 23, 2010, 05:30:18 PM
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Hi,
Is there anyone that has information on this uniform? I have just been given this picture of my gggrandfather. He was Polish but I have found a picture of a similar uniform online under Russian uniforms 1904-1905. Does anyone know or have any further details that might help me? And what role did the Poles play for the Russians in that time period?
I am new here and hoping I am in the right place where someone can help. Even a little confused about it being a gaming site but I see lots of posts on military uniform pics so maybe someone can help!
Thanks!
(http://leadadventureforum.com/Users/tmdescovich/Desktop/DSC01557.jpg)
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Sorry, can't see the image
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I am sorry. I can't figure out why it is not showing up. I tried to attach it with the button, tried to drag and drop it, and tried to paste it. Anyone know what my problem is?
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You'll have to upload it to a picture hosting site, like www.photobucket.com, first, then copy the address line into the post.
Alternatively, if the image is smaller than 256kb file size, you can attach it to the post by using the "attach" function in the "additional options" dropdown menu beneath the message box when you post a reply.
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hope this works!
(http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac324/tmdescovich/DSC01557copy.jpg)
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As Poland was split between Russia, Prussia and Austria for nearly 150 years and only retained it's independence in 1918 it really might be a russian uniform. Especially as the biggest part of Poland was russian.
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That has a distinct Russian look.......
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It certainly looks Russian. Poles were merely Russians at the time.
The only unit I can find with light green shoulder boards would be the 14th Dragoons.
That would make sense geographically, as it was a Ruthenian unit (i.e. the border of Poland and Ukraine).
The key will be that the green shoulder boards and collar tabs should have white piping. I can't quite make that out from the picture.
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It looks like they DO have white piping.
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Yes, it looks like there is white piping. It looks like the picture was black and white and color was painted on top of it so some of the white piping is covered but clear in other spots. Thank you to everyone for their help.
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Result, now you can research the unit history........ :)
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yes, that is the next step. seems like the web would have more information on this stuff. It's not that long ago. Any advice on where to start would be great. This is a whole new area of interest for me!
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If it is the 14th Dragoons, and it seems to all fit, then they started WWI in the 14th Cavalry Division.
In full they were the 14th Dragoons Malorossiyskiy of the Crown Prince of Germany and Prussia, at least leading up to WWI,. Naturally lost the German honorific when the war started (so get a "14" on the shoulder boards).
Flag was a green 1885 model.
You'll find a lot more searching in the Russian: 14-й драгунский Малороссийский полк or 14-го драгунского Малороссийского полка, with or without the Малороссийский/Малороссийского part. Google translate should give the gist of what you need.
http://regiment.ru/reg/III/A/14/1.htm
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Poles were merely Russians at the time.
I'm sure you meant to write that Poles wore military clothing of whatever nation under which they were living at the time. Poles were never merely Russians - bite your tongue! They remained Polish despite living under German/Prussian, Austro-Hungarian or Russian governments.
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I am pretty sure that @Mark gave us the view of that time and did not want to start any political discussion here ;)
there was no polish army at that time, so any soldiers wearing russian uniforms were russian, disregarding the language they spoke at home, be it polish, finnish, ukrainian, romanian ot whatever
so the statement (from the view of that time) is correct so to speak ;) ;)
(not to forget that independant poland tried to absorb other nationalities too, who would then serve in the polish army -. and if we really want to take it correctly, ruthenians speak ukrainian, so not actually polish, right? ;))
I would be interested to know how the independant polish army after WWI absorbed their national contingents before they kicked the ass of the bolsheviks
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I'm sure you meant to write that Poles wore military clothing of whatever nation under which they were living at the time. Poles were never merely Russians - bite your tongue! They remained Polish despite living under German/Prussian, Austro-Hungarian or Russian governments.
On the whole true, but not entirely. Some people at the time born in Poland who spoke Polish disagreed with you. Denikin was more Polish than Russian, but loathed Polish separatism. Likewise after 1917 Dzerzhinski acted entirely like a Russian who happened to speak Polish.
From a Tsarist point of view there were members of the Empire who spoke Polish at home, but there was officially no such thing as a "Pole", and they went out of their way to prevent Polish being regarded as suitable for any public activity.
I would be interested to know how the independant polish army after WWI absorbed their national contingents before they kicked the ass of the bolsheviks.
They didn't, on the whole. One of the great failures of the 1920-1939 Polish state was its inability to deal fairly with its minorities.
The Poles were not opposed to ethnic units. They fielded a unit of Polish Muslim Tartar cavalry. Bulak-Balachowicz's unit was mostly Belorussian. There were a couple of Russian Cossack units.
However they had so enraged their Lithuanian, German and Ukrainian countrymen that they got no support at all from them in 1919-1920. (The units in the Polish army noted as Lithuanian-Belorussian were actually ethnic Poles from those areas.)
And the less said about their treatment of the Jews, the better.
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On the whole true, but not entirely. Some people at the time born in Poland who spoke Polish disagreed with you. Denikin was more Polish than Russian, but loathed Polish separatism. Likewise after 1917 Dzerzhinski acted entirely like a Russian who happened to speak Polish.
From a Tsarist point of view there were members of the Empire who spoke Polish at home, but there was officially no such thing as a "Pole", and they went out of their way to prevent Polish being regarded as suitable for any public activity.
Not just the Tsarist point of view. My great-grandfather had to leave Austro-Hungary for teaching Polish (among other things) before being arrested. Both the Ukrainian and Polish sides of the family came from Austro-Hungarian territory (and all within 10 miles of each other!) but all retained their individual national heritage despite any official designation or lack thereof. I agree that there are always exceptions to every rule - the Russians are welcome to claim Dzerzhinski as their own.
And the less said about their treatment of the Jews, the better.
A great failing of many European countries, unfortunately.