Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Railway Wargaming => Topic started by: Gandalf on November 02, 2010, 04:01:51 AM
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Does anyone have any information on types of locomotives used by the Ottoman Turks during the First World War in what is now the Palestinian territories, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc and whether any commercial models are available in N gague?
It may not ever come to fruition as a project but I'm looking into developing a "Lawrence of Arabia/Alleby in Palestine" campaign using 10mm figures and would like to incorporate a train attack.
Thanks
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As Germany was the major financial backer of the Turkish railway system and as Germany was a major manufacturer of locomotives and rolling stock, I suspect that the Turks used whatever the contemporary German puff-puffs were. My knowledge of trains is limited to Thomas, James, Henry, Gordon and co.
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I think the Hejaz was a narrow-gauge railway. Almost certainly knowing even less about trains than Carlos (I have a passing familiarity with Thomas, Annie and Clarabel, but don't even remember the names of the others), I have no idea how that would have impacted on what trains ran on it.
This might interest you, though how helpful it will be in finding models is doubtful:
Various Locomotives (http://nabataea.net/locomotives.html) (Gives names of manufacturers and dates, which is a start)
Rolling Stock (http://nabataea.net/workinglocos.html) (That Nurenburg coach is roughly contemporary with the Arab Revolt)
Old Photos (http://nabataea.net/oldhejaz.html) (Unfortunately mostly a little late for our period, but interesting nonetheless)
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Off the top of my head, I only know about the "Bagdadbahn" (Baghdad Railway, from Konya to Baghdad). This one was supposed to be standard gauge (1435), but in 1914, only roughly half of the ~2000km track had been completed, gaps being filled by 600mm (2ft) narrow gauge sections.
For the standard gauge sections, locos were provided by the major German manufacturers, notably Borsig, Cail, Hanomag, Henschel and Maffei; in all likelihood, these were standard models, so any German loco manufactured between 1900 and 1914 should probably be fair game; possibly restrict it to pre-1913 models because of the difficulty of getting heavy material to Constantinople after August 1914.
It can be assumed that the narrow-gauge locos were also provided by those, and were possibly the standard "Feldbahn 0-8-0T" design (http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/show.php?image_id=3187&cat_id=37) (which was manufactured by numerous companies, according to Bishop and Davis [1972]).
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Jorge, my 2 1/2 year old son, is currently train obsessed. While I harbour fears of him, 30 years hence, armed with a clipboard, haunting railway stations and solemnly intoning serial numbers, I suspect it's a passing phase. Distant memories of the Rev. Audrey's books aside, it has compelled me to know more about Thomas the tank engine than I would otherwise wish. At the very least I have to know who 'number 3' and 'number 4' are and what colour they are are when required to hunt for the damned things in the untamed wilderness that is his bedroom.
On the other hand he seems equally drawn to something called 'Mr Maker', which features some frenetic prat making stuff that invariably requires the contents of a craft store, like 'gloopy glue' and 'googly eyes'. There's no escape from this as my wife has discovered there is a Portuguese dubbed version in Brazil. >:(
Maybe given a few years he can blitz a LAF 'build something' contest. :)
Apols for the digression.
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(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7131/drehscheibe2254.jpg)
The image shows a pre WW1 Prussian G10 in Turkey, but IŽd say there must have been G8s as well. Both models were for goods trains. Just google for them.
any commercial models are available in N gague?
G8:
http://shop.ebay.de/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=br+55+spur+n&_sacat=See-All-Categories
http://shop.ebay.de/i.html?_nkw=g8+spur+n&_sacat=0&_dmpt=DE_Modellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&_odkw=g10+spur+n&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
G10:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Hobbytrain-Spur-N-10573-Dampflok-BR-57-grun-KPEV-K856-/370330438918?pt=DE_Modellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&hash=item56396a0d06
http://cgi.ebay.de/Trix-12248-Schlepptenderlok-G10-Spur-N-neu-OVP-/140356717228?pt=DE_Modellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&hash=item20ade98aac
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Thanks for your input there folks, especially to Michi for the factual stuff but also to Carlos and Chris for the Thomas the Tank Engine jokes
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I first spotted a lovely series of 3 studies of the Hejaz railway in 'The Heritage of The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia', by Wahbi Al-Hariri-Rifai and Mokhless Al-Hariri-Rifai, 1990, GDG Publications, Washington DC, ISBN 0-9624483-0-3
http://www.amazon.com/The-Heritage-Kingdom-Saudi-Arabia/dp/0962448303
The 3 photo studies of the Hijaz Railway at Madain Saleh include a small train station, railway cars - the shell of a caboose style carriage, and an old maintenance shed complete with rusting loco in situ, pretty much untouched since WW1.
I've just googled 'Hejaz Railway''Mada'in Salih' and there's some good reference photos online
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I've just googled 'Hejaz Railway''Mada'in Salih' and there's some good reference photos online
hejaz Railway/Hedschasbahn was built by German industry and was 1050mm narrow gauge. The locomotives and rolling stock looked very much the way German standard gauge did.
Pictures:
https://www.google.de/search?hl=de&tok=_8fM0Gnvz5YGQKRD2DvOtg&pq=hedscahsbahn&cp=6&gs_id=az&xhr=t&q=hedschasbahn&client=firefox-a&hs=b4E&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1280&bih=629&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=MDhvUJi9B4nOsgaZ64DABQ
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Also, if you get desperate, you can even just try and find a reasonable proxy for the train they use in the movie.
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If it LOOKS right, it is right. We're gamers, not minirailway fans (of whom I am also one!)
This is so true!
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Apparently, they never cleared the wrecks, so if you google Hejaz railway there's plenty of pictures of the actual wrecked trains:
Large Image (http://notsohairyjerry.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/sa-train-wreck-4-lawrence-of-arabia-arab-uprising-1918.jpg)
(http://teakdoor.com/Gallery/albums/userpics/11858/P1010001.JPG)
(http://squierj.freeyellow.com/1980Arabia/38-10TrainBlownoffTrack.JPG)
(http://matthimes.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/hejaz-rail-today.jpg)
(http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/44157507.jpg)
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2437/3936145613_4be9c5db8f_z.jpg?zz=1)
There are also some museum trains/reenactment trains:
(http://bedouincavecamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/train.jpg)
(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/a7/d3/91/the-same-old-locomotive.jpg)
And this tantalizing real photo:
(http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0307/fig2a.gif)
If you're only making one train, a mixed goods/passenger train like the photo seems to be the way to go.
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'Attention all passengers, the 8.45 service from Medina has been cancelled.'
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'Today's train has been cancelled due to leaves blowing on the line.... sorry, I mean to say levies blowing UP the line!'
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'Today's train has been cancelled due to leaves blowing on the line.... sorry, I mean to say levies blowing UP the line!'
Quite possible...
Found this map in wikipedia:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/MilitaryRailwayPalestine.png/450px-MilitaryRailwayPalestine.png)