Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Railway Wargaming => Topic started by: David on November 16, 2010, 09:54:02 PM
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Hi :)
What scale for 28mm east german Africa railway ?
Here a picture of part of the train, plus there is some pictures i had never seen before
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?156983-Imperial-German-army-in-East-Africa-(early-20th-century)
I have seen a picture somewhere but will have to find it again :-[
Thanks
David
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The major rail lines in German East Africa were the Usambara and Tanganjika lines, both of which ran on metre gauge (i.e. 100cm narrow gauge). I assume the first picture is one of those lines, judging from the size of the wagons.
The closest option might be using S gauge (22.4mm wide) tracks, which would be about right for a vehicle scale of 1/50, and scratch-build the vehicles. Alternatively, you could use the S gauge locos and rolling stock, but given that it is pretty much an American thing, it will a) be had to get outside the US and b) probably won't include German designs.
Alternatively, you could go for one of the various narrow gauge small railways. In that case, regular 00 gauge tracks would correspond to about 750mm (a common German narrow gauge), although you would probably have to scratchbuild "authentic" locos and rolling stock if you cannot find them in the 0n30 market.
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Hi
Does anybody have good pictures of East German railway stock an engine 1914
i can only find two so far.
Thanks
David
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Here's one of a narrow-gauge railway train pulled by what looks like a 0-8-0t locomotive:
http://einestages.spiegel.de/hund-images/2008/01/31/24/05537feb55d8956f28a6d46de772f1c5_image_document_large_featured_borderless.jpg
I'm not quite sure if it is on metre gauge or 750mm - it is attributed to the Usambara Railway, but it doesn't really look like metre gauge stock.
If the attribution is correct, this image shows Tanganjika Railway rolling stock combined with an Indian-built locomotive in 1922:
http://trains-worldexpresses.com/700/704-01m.JPG
There's an excellent book on the subject, the 1916 publication "Die Kolonialbahnen (mit besonderer Berücksichtigung Afrikas)", which is available on Google Books. Unfortunately, most of the picture plates and plans included are not featured in the Google Books listing (copyright reasons, I assume). My father owns a reprint of that, however, and if you remind me of it around Christmas (when I'm over there), I could try to get some pics from that.
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Excuse the interruption however isn't this the actor that played Frodo?
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Spike762/Gew%2088/soldatimafrika.jpg)
lol
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You could probably take some inspiration by my own approach to the subject: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=16724.0
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll111/wamasaka/Mini%202010/MiniaturenfotosOriginale115.jpg)
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Thanks, nice information and models, what scale are they? ho gauge or 1/43
I see the link is for west german africa train
here are the two pictures i have
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/Germaneastafrica.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/germaneastafrica2.jpg)
i did come across a picture of the engine, but can not find it now :(
David
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Michi, thanks for the link, that's some really classy work 8)
www.gallopingmajorwargames.com
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Metre gauge 3'3/8" after WW1. I don't know what it was before.
Gauge 16.5mm should be close enough, thats normal HO/OO track for 28mm figures
if you want something smaller try HOm or TT track that is 12mm, just over 2' or 700mm gauge? for 28 figures.
the Fleischman "Magic Train" stuff is no longer made so becoming expensive on ebay, but it is 1/48 on HO/OO width track, so definatley the easiest way to go if your pockets are deep.
if you want to use 12mm TT track look for stuff for 5.5mm association, that is 1/55
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Such amazing pictures ! I had never seen many pics of German colonial Africa before !
And this one in your first link :
(http://www.argad-bzh.fr/heb/krieg5.jpg)
Anyone has any record of such action ? Charge with bayonets on horseback ? :o Never heard of this.
Aaaargh I would have to update my skirmish rules again >:(
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Apols for mild tangent, but some great 28mm railway bits here; http://homepage.mac.com/brentdietrich/companyB_models_Trains.html (http://homepage.mac.com/brentdietrich/companyB_models_Trains.html)
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They are very nice, but can not find a UK supplier.
Would have to get it direct from US?
David
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Naaaahh! Bob over at WCP stocks them @ http://www.thewcp.co.uk/ tell him I sent you... :)
Anyone seeking a local stockist, the list of distributors in on the News page...
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Hi :)
Just picked up the Book "Steam in East Africa" by Kevin Patience, well worth it for (German East Africa WW1)
The German East African Railways 1893-1917
The Uganda Railway 1896-1926
The Zanzibar Railway 1904-1928
Also has some nice pictures of some of the ship and steam boats for 1914.
Here some pictures of the German trains, so now i know what they look like i can start to build one :)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/GEA3.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/GEA2.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/GEA1.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/GEA4.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/GEA5.jpg)
I see the driver wears a sun hat
David
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In the late 19th century the French west African colonies had "Decauville" railway - starting from Senegal I believe - , with a very narrow gauge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decauville
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Hi, sorry for the late reply; while visiting my parents, I lifted some images from "Die Deutschen Kolonialbahnen" concerning German colonial railway locos and stock.
You can find them in my Photobucket gallery, following >>>this link<<< (http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/Christian_S_1979/Modelling%20and%20Miniatures/African%20Adventures/German%20Colonial%20Railways/). Unfortunately, there weren't as many useful pictures in the book as I thought there would be, and sorry for the sometimes poor quality - had to use my camera instead of a scanner.
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You can find them in my Photobucket gallery, following >>>this link<<< (http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/Christian_S_1979/Modelling%20and%20Miniatures/African%20Adventures/German%20Colonial%20Railways/).
Very good that, many thanks! I conclude that conversions can be done from usual Saxonian/Prussian/Bavarian rolling stock by adding grilles to the windows and tropical roofs on top of the wagons an coaches. The engines look like their European counterparts, apart from being more like standard gauge in appearance than the tank engines used on European narrow gauge lines.
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Thanks
this should get me going on the this project, not sure where to get everything.
But there are a few good model railways shows in scotland, and they are very helpfull.
David
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"Anyone has any record of such action ? Charge with bayonets on horseback ?"
The image of a mounted Schutztruppe bayonet charge referenced above (several years ago) is by Carl Becker and was included in Deutsche Reiter in Südwest :Selbsterlebnisse aus den Kämpfen in Deutsch-Südwestafrika (1907), a compilation of participant accounts from the Herero and Nama Wars which began in DSWA in 1904. The action depicted is a rather fanciful rendering of a skirmish that took place in the first weeks of the Herero uprising near Uitkomst, a boer farm 18 km SW of Grootfontein in the north of the colony. I have posted extensively about Uitkomst at my blog (Cornflower Blue & Corduroy) and am in the final stages of developing a skirmish scenario with Roy Jones for use with his new Herero Wars Rules, a variant of TSATF.
More germain to this thread, the narrow gauge railway between Windhuk and Swakopmund was the setting for some of the first fighting during the Herero war and armored trains were used as cover for repair parties and relief forces. There is another Becker painting in Deutsche Reiter that shows one such train in the right panel of a two page spread. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ytEp-6CGiEOTFvbmRwWk9kNVE/view?usp=sharing)
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apology for wiseassing, but I believe Herero genocide or rebellion is favoured by the people without the horses and bayonets :?
as fancy as the painting looks like (I'll admit that), as much it turns my stomach inside out.
it need not worry us, but this particular episode in Namibian history was still an issue in 2004
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar_von_Trotha#Legacy
and today as well. I would advise sensitive treatment of the topic
back to OT, I read somewhere that the germans even had some armoured train in SW, at least in WW1, but I don't remember the source, sorry. How was it in Tanganyka?
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The narrow gauge railway used by the "Swakopmund-Windhuk Staatsbahn", and later extended to other parts of DSWA, was serviced by Krauss-built Zwillinge twin tank steam engines with wheels that were configured 0-6-0. The engines were coupled back to back so a single cab crew could operate them in either direction. There is one surviving engine of the 50 pairs that were once in service, displayed on a plinth outside the Windhoek train station in Namibia. The first truck behind the engines was a water tender, and there is a surviving example in Rehoboth, Namibia.
For my thoughts on the German-Herero and Nama wars, how they should be remembered, and the morality of wargaming them, see the first post disclaimer at my blog. http://omaheke.blogspot.com/2013/10/disclaimer.html (http://omaheke.blogspot.com/2013/10/disclaimer.html)
Cheers,
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like this
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zwillinge_Namibia.jpg/220px-Zwillinge_Namibia.jpg)
I can hardly imagine a wargaming railway more consistent than Michi's
@Estorff, I know Your disclaimer and couldn't agree more
For my thoughts on the German-Herero and Nama wars, how they should be remembered, and the morality of wargaming them, see the first post disclaimer at my blog. http://omaheke.blogspot.com/2013/10/disclaimer.html (http://omaheke.blogspot.com/2013/10/disclaimer.html)
the "Reiterdenkmal" after the independance comemmorated the colonial oppression, and it has been removed and put in storage in 2013
hell, I just realised what threadomancers we are, sorry....
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I can hardly imagine a wargaming railway more consistent than Michi's
Thank you! ;)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dTv5kGotXps/VEGEveQetOI/AAAAAAAACVo/vd-Xuhm2iPU/s1600/Page_09.jpg)
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Ehre wem Ehre gebührt :)
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How was it in Tanganyka?
Unfortunately as far as I'm aware (though I would be happy to be proven wrong), the armoured train action was mostly across the border in British East. The Brits had armoured trains on the Uganda railway. And as that railway ran close to the border in places the Germans made quite a habit of giving them the "Lawrence" treatment, before the war moved on far from those parts.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/19/163_21_11_14_5_41_21.jpg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/19/163_21_11_14_5_41_43.jpg)
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I am surprised there was any....
THX a lot
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the Germans made quite a habit of giving them the "Lawrence" treatment, before the war moved on far from those parts.
:D :D :D
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s08/r10/Michi_28mm_Tsingtao 1914_NEW_LPL8_Round10.JPG)
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Mein Gott it's so beautiful.