Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Roebeast45 on January 18, 2011, 03:00:54 AM
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I've been noticing lately an apparent rise in the popularity of 15mm miniatures for all genres of games. As a predominately 28-32mm gamer I'm curious as to why this is.
Could anyone who plays 15mm games please clue me in? Thanks in advance!
~Brian Roe aka Roebeast
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Economics. More figures/dollar spent.
Smaller footprint for units means you can have bigger battles on the same table.
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I use 25/28mm for skirmish to say Platoon/company level games, and 15mm for big battles where I want to represent brigades, divisions or even corps.
I use the 15mm because it is cheaper, so I can afford to build bigger armies for less cost than 25/28mm, and as I have a limited sized playing area it enables me to play those games in a smaller area.
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When I started out in the late 80's I went with 15mm due to budget and space restrictions.
Over the years I've just stuck with the 15mm as all my terrain is in that scale, despite the best efforts of Conquest Miniatures, Perry Miniatures and Empress :D
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I've been noticing lately an apparent rise in the popularity of 15mm miniatures for all genres of games.
Interesting - I would have said the exact opposite.
I can understand the financial/space advantages of 15mm, but most gamers I know have been selling off toolboxes full of 15mm, to make room for a smaller number of larger, better sculpted minis, that can show off their painting.
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Interesting - I would have said the exact opposite.
I can understand the financial/space advantages of 15mm, but most gamers I know have been selling off toolboxes full of 15mm, to make room for a smaller number of larger, better sculpted minis, that can show off their painting.
Situations vary regionally. LOL, fer sure!
I find the 1/600th Combined arms miniatures are drawing down my 1/300th aerial and AFV figures.
For modern ships I find 1/6000th (yes, right number of zeroes) gives me a sense of the range of the weapons.
But the biggest driver in avoiding 15 mm is retooling terrain for me.
I have 25/28 mm houses and terrain so it kinds locks me into those size figures for Horror, VSF, Historical, etc.
Gracias,
Glenn
Edit: I do hope this is an honest question of curiosity and not a thread for "one true scale" arguments/attempts to convert people or put down a scale. On other sites this type of question frequently becomes acrimonious breast beating.
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I've been noticing lately an apparent rise in the popularity of 15mm miniatures...
Interesting - I would have said the exact opposite...
I think you’re both right. It seem to me like wargamers started to standardised their collections lately. They choose to play different periods in different scales depending on their idea of the best approach to said periods… I’ve heard of people selling of their 15mm but I’ve also heard of people selling their 28mm too. Maybe the people you know had change in interest and therefore changed the scale of their army.
More on topic, I don’t think that price is that relevant with all the new hard plastic and manufacturers offering (OG Army or Renegade Regiments for examples) available now. I think that the main factor is the "smaller footprint for units [so] you can have bigger battles on the same table" as jamesmanto put it in his post.
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Interesting - I would have said the exact opposite.
I can understand the financial/space advantages of 15mm, but most gamers I know have been selling off toolboxes full of 15mm, to make room for a smaller number of larger, better sculpted minis, that can show off their painting.
Now I would agree, I think moderns, Sci fi and certainly when considering Splintered light minis-fantasy all seem to be rising in popularity.
I think 2011 will be the year for 15mm Sci Fi with the Tomorrows war rules coming out and companies like Critical Mass and Khurasan etc Also Rebel miniatures for zombies and the like
I also think historical rules from ambush alley, The Commander ranges, FOW etc are seeing a return.
It has taken an age or seems that what for sculpts to compete with 28mm but they seem to be happening in the last year or so, the only figures prior to the above I had seen previouslty were AB/Eureka that ever made me think of getting into 15mm for a long time.
I do think it is cost, space, speed of painting, suitable vehicles etc which would and must make it arratctive also going large in battles and scale of battles (Akula excepted)
I do however not get the buzz from looking at 15mm other than the Splintered light Furries, but have thought of 15mm Scifi as a nice project without the £20 price tag for each vehicle which is what hurts me if I want to do 28mm as I can never keep it to skirmish ;D
20mm is one I see as stagnating, with the exception of Sgt Major and Elheim the minis seem to have become very dated staying in the 1990s in terms of quality and sculpting style with I would argue 15mm surpassing a lot of them
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I think you’re both right. It seem to me like wargamers started to standardised their collections lately. They choose to play different periods in different scales depending on their idea of the best approach to said periods
I'd agree with that - my C18th collection is all 15mm as are my sudan colonials, my Revolutionary Wars are 6mm, my ACW is 25mm as is my Back of Beyond collection. It all depends on how YOU want to play a certain period.
From experience I'd say if you wanted to fight out larger scenarios but only have a smaller table then go for 15mm or even 6mm. For small scenarios then 25mm would be better.
The one thing I would say is that gamers age they may find that they are drawn to larger sized figures if only so that they can see the things clearly enough to paint!
vT
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Edit: I do hope this is an honest question of curiosity and not a thread for "one true scale" arguments/attempts to convert people or put down a scale. On other sites this type of question frequently becomes acrimonious breast beating.
Not all all! Although most of my minis are 28mm or so this is just because of the games I've played. In the past I've played 6mm and 15mm depending on what system was being used. I think each game is best served by a certain scale. And right now I'm working on a ruleset and I'm still trying to decide which scale works with the whole detail/force size/cost/footprint equation.
A few years back I noticed some players who would never have looked at 15mm got into them because of Flames of War. And recently it seems that every time I see a new sci-fi release someone has to post "will it be in 15mm?" or "too bad it's not 15mm". Perhaps this is just a vocal minority.
Still a lot to consider.
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Roebeast45,
Awesome! But then this is LAF where I find people avoiding the deadly >:( subjects, treating each other with :o respect (at first I thought too much but I find it better than another 3 letter site which pains me to see deteriorate (well, IMO,) lately,) and stay focused. Well, pretty much. lol I have adjusted... or is it assimilated? ;)
I am attracted to all the delightful 15 mm toys o_o but just can't justify :-X yet another scale/terrain set.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Interesting - I would have said the exact opposite.
I can understand the financial/space advantages of 15mm, but most gamers I know have been selling off toolboxes full of 15mm, to make room for a smaller number of larger, better sculpted minis, that can show off their painting.
Tend to agree... although I've drifted away from 6mm due to my son preferring 28mm combined with just how far 28mm has come on in range and quality.
Not selling a damn thing though, still have some micro scenics from almost 30 years ago...
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Brian,
I am one of those advocates of 15 mm - but that is a personal choice, not a "religion" and to each his or her own.
As to why 15 mm? Well, some of the arguments above, certainly. Also, I just like the figures - and the extraordinary variety. Recently I've been compiling a list of "character" figures in various 15 mm ranges to see what's out there for off the beaten path figures and I've been surprised at just how many figures there are. I'm now on the lookout, as a result of this searching of mine, for appropriate dismounted Musketeer figures as in Alexander Dumas variety, and of course the Cardinal, etc. So, while there is always the desire for something not "out there" the simple reality is the choice is astounding.
But I suppose the primary reason I gravitate to 15 mm is painting. I am, at best, an average painter but painting in this scale means I can paint pretty nice figures in fairly quick time. There are those who take more time and turn out spectacular work. I could probably do a nice job in larger scales but I like the little fellows.
And then there is this, and this is not an exaggeration: I've accumulated something right around 30,000 "figures" in this scale and the sheer centrifugal force keeps me locked into the scale. And, no, not all painted, oh no, oh no. I've even come to the point that the "masses" of troops only need to be painted to a simple adequacy and save the quality jobs for the special ones only.
And lastly, a brief comment about the up surge in 15 mm. If it can be traced to a single source, if at all, I'd point to the new figures from Blue Moon Manufacturing available through Old Glory (the big ones, not the 15s version). While they are in fact closer to 18 mm figures, they are superb in variety and have set a new standard to be met. Not in size, mind you, but in the way they are packaged, at least some of them. Where else can you buy one pack of figures for $15.00 and get thirty unique sculpts? I know you can do this in there pirate and wild west ranges and it appears in others as well. And we aren't talking the "old" Old Glory with minor variations of the same figure; we're talking distinct sculpts.
Which ever way you jump, hope you have a great time. As to the 15 mm world, if you decide to go that way, enjoy the swim, the waters just fine.
FifteensAway Casting Off
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I actually really like 15mm, but I also am a diehard 28mm gamer.
I love 15mm.co.uk, they have that 80s charm that none of the modern companies have. True, the other companies might have crisper, more 'modern' sculpts, but when it comes to old school its always the plain-spoken lads from 15mm.co.uk, up in chilly Scotland!
USE ME, for 15mm sci fi, Fantasy and WW2 are all great sets of rules, very quik and easy and I think that's why I like 15mm.
I also really like HOTT. It's simple and effective, really all you want from a good minis game. :)
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Now when contemplating a new period I tend to think along the lines of "What have I already got for terrain that can be used for it?"
Since I never have the money to make a big oder and rely on serendipity to get my minis what is available at the Bring and Buy or as a deal from a friend is quite often a decisive factor.
But I think any game with combined arms armour and air and artillery with ww2 or more modern weapons in 28mm just looks really silly to me! Plus it's expensive.
If I could afford to retool my entire collection and terrain I'd happily switch my ancient and 18th century armies to 28mm, but I'm not repainting all that now!
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Some great answers here to a good question. I like many of you have armies in 25, 6 and my favourite 15mm. Yes 25mm is probably the best scale, there are some beautiful figures out there, but for me it's gotta be 15mm.
It's mainly down to cost, e.g one 25 man Battalion pack/unit in 25mm=£24.85. 4 packs of figures to make up a 30 man 15mm unit £8.60. Also 15mm is so much more easy to paint, you've not got to be an expert painter, you can get away with a lot more in 15mm that you can't in 25mm.
Just my opinion!!
Ray
http://onelover-ray.blogspot.com/
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When I started out in the late 80's I went with 15mm due to budget and space restrictions.
Over the years I've just stuck with the 15mm as all my terrain is in that scale, despite the best efforts of Conquest Miniatures, Perry Miniatures and Empress :D
Thing is Baz, you are a South Australian....you have only just reached the 90's anyway!!! When you catch up with the rest of us you will grow up ;D
I sell VERY LITTLE in the way of 15mm through the shop, most of my customers are 20mm with the 28mm guys doing their best to catch up.
Pete
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I subdivide my pursuits in 15mm and 28mm as gaming and hobby projects respectively. I prefer to play games with 15mm models. Cheaper to buy, quicker to paint to a high standard, easier to transport and store, and all with no shortage of quality and diversity for purchasing. The same can be said for 15mm terrain as well. Altogether I find it perfect for an evening of games at the club, a friend's basement, or the local shop if I'm willing to brave it.
That said I far prefer to pursue 28mm for more painterly projects I don't intend to game as much with, or at all.
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With 15mm the only reason I used it was when getting into DBM the club played 15mm so if I wanted an opponent....
But 2011 will be interesting to see if 28mm plastic will continue its rise especially in expanding significantly into non Napoleonic periods.
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I have mostly stuck with 28mm.
28mm for all genre's
20mm for WW2 and Modern Warfare.
15mm for sci-fi.
I doubt I will use 15mm for anything else, I prefer 20mm for vast battles when it comes to the sort of 20th/21st century warfare (though I get 28mm for smaller more characterised stuff)
28mm Fantasy for the same as the above, and I like having ancient/fantasy medieval armies in 28mm due to the detail on a 28mm figure (nothing can beat Perry's War of the Roses range, if they were any smaller i'd doubt they'd be as good!)
But I do really like sci fi in 15mm, I don't know why, it just seems to fit, and ever since going on trips to gaming shows with the pa it was certainly characterised by seeing GZGs 15mm sci fi range, which are still great stuff!
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I'm only interested in a narrow number of interests, all 20th Century and I've struggled with determining which scale to plump for in preference to all others. Each has its advantages and disadvantages, along with their shortcomings for gaming. Ignoring WW2, which I don't play, and Vietnam, which is quite well covered across the board, I'd grade them as follows;
28mm - Great figures, very limited vehicle range, aircraft are out of place unless it's a big game. While Iraqistan and 'Black Hawk Down' are quite well covered you will struggle to find anything else post-WW2. Works very well as a small unit skirmish scale. Big games (Platoon +) look a bit silly on a typical table, as the combatants look like they are close enough to throw their rifles at each other. Otherwise very visually appealing. Store bought buildings are expensive and limited.
20mm - Virtually every vehicle and aircraft is available, usually as a plastic kit. Large amount of off the shelf US & European buildings, thanks to model railways, but fewer 'exotic' ones. While there are a few gems out there, the figures are in the main a bit crude in style, which shows at this scale more so than 15mm. There isn't much you can't get or convert though. You can game almost up to company level without it starting to look a bit cramped on a typical table. Visually appealing but let down by the figures themselves in some cases.
15mm - There aren't many vehicles that aren't available. The figures are quite well proportioned, but lack the presence of their larger brethren. It's far easier to make a 15mm figure look awesome than it is a 20mm figure but also the scale allows a paint job to convert most generic figures to what you want. Aircraft can be a problem outside the major types, unless you downscale them to 1/144th, however more are slowly becoming available. You can game at company level and the ranges look more realistic (even though they're not). Some really good terrain items available, but limited choice.
I like 28mm figures, but my painting skills might be more suitable to 15mm where I'd get away with being rubbish. That isn't to imply that there haven't been a lot of awesomely painted 15mm figures put up here, which would put some 28mm folk to shame. I often see the comment 'are they 20mm/28mm?' etc. I've also seen 15mm terrain which looks awesome (I would love to find that African shanty village that was posted here a couple of years back, that was possibly the best thing I've seen) and 28mm which exposes too many flaws because of its size.
Cost is a bit of a white elephant imo, a 28mm tank is around the £20 mark, but on a typical table you really wouldn't use more than one, a platoon of 20mm vehicles would actually be more expensive than that (depending on where you got them) and might be a little cramped, even with a 3 tank platoon. A three tank 15mm platoon is slightly cheaper at £15-ish, but then you might feel more are required to fill the table. The same goes for figures, a platoon at 28mm will cover the table, while at 15mm might begin to look a little lost. Obviously you can fool around with ground scales to make it 'work', but too many or too little still looks too many or two little. Let's face it, most wargamers with £50 in their pocket, will spend that £50 at whatever scale they game at, so it is certainly no more, or no less expensive either way.
To me there is no one size that has it all, whatever you choose you are trading off something in favour of the games you wish to play, it all comes down to what you are happy with at the end of the day.
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I do not think there is a "one true scale". And a lot of people I know had stopped to wander in 28mm due to cost and smaller revenues...
anyway every size has its own advantages disavantages. A lot of people tend to debate in term of "absolute values", but in the end it boils down to what you can afford, and what is your purposes. You lke to play large tank battles? 6mm or 10mm. Combined arms smaller operations? (say company level) 15mm, from reduced platoon downaward 28mm. If you like more infantry you can "up-scale". but again on the usual table more than 2-3 AFV in total will look hugely silly. The only time I had a tank on tank battle (2 M1s, 2 Bradleys, 1 T80, 3 BMP-2) was on a full 180x180 table and the distances were pretty short. To be quite honest nxt time I will redo the action it will on 180x120 with 15mm but with some more tracks. Yet, if you have an armoured column in a cramped terrain it can works also in 28mm.
As large battles of the pre gunpowder/pre tanks period are involved, in the end 15mm is useful when you really want a lot of troops. Price and foot prints are the key here. I can do a small band of nromans in 28mm, but even with Conquest plastic box I cannot afford a full hastings. Instead I can deploy a large 15mm army.
As far quality goes, I have to say that we have reached a point where 15mm have nothing to envy to 28mm and the good painter can show off in both scale, plus when we move from miniatures to full table 15mm table allow more variations.
Again I play both sizes plus 6mm and 10mm, but everything is a question of objective and resources.
Example. I wanted to enter AWI... fell in love with perry. Painted a unit of Grenadiers. Then make some calculations and realized I was not able to afford them. Looked at Peter Pig 15mm and Pendraken 10mm. Ended in 10mm and not regretting it.
French Indochina. Started with a 15mm project. I loved eureka... moved to pendraken. Funding is short (actually desperate) and eureka while nice are too expensive at the moment. Plus in 10mm I can do more stuff, probably a full GM and a vietminh battalion.
To be quite honest I am feeling I have overspent in some 28mm projects that now are to large for simple skirmish and to small for pitched battles. I do not like to sell good stuff except in dire emergencies. Yet it is difficult to really find a proper rule set for what I have.
At the moment except for some limited endeavours I am largely a 15mm man.