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Miniatures Adventure => Pulp => Topic started by: Amalric on February 23, 2011, 05:34:32 PM
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I have been pondering what the consequences of H.G. Wells War of the Worlds Martian invasion of England might have been. At the end of the story, Wells states that they have been unable to successfully use the salvaged Martian tech. With England devastated by the invasion attempt but possessing what the Martian’s left behind, how would our history have changed?
Would there have been a WW1 and if so would England have been in it?
Would the colonies rallied to devastated England or make bids for freedom?
I am wondering because I am trying to think how the Pulpy 1930’s would look 30 plus years after the invasion.
What do you think?
Thanks
Amalric
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You should probably check out these Graphic novels, War Of The Worlds, Scarlet Traces and The Great Game by Ian Edgington and the artist D'Israeli. The first book is a graphic representation of the novel, with the other two book dealing with the exploitation of the technology by the Britsh Empire.
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I'm thinking Britain would have recovered relatively quickly.
The invasion was restriced to the South East of England and centred on London, the chapter 'The Earth Under The Martians' is misleading; its actually the viewpoint of the narrator who thinks the world is doomed. In all ten cylinders landed in and around London, each contained five tripods, one or two handling machines and in some the apparatus for a flying machine. It is not known why no more cylinders were fired from Mars but the assumption is made that the huge gun that fired them out of the Martian atmosphere either malfunctioned or the residual gas polluted the atmosphere to a dangerous level. I cant recall how long the attack lasts but I think its only a matter of a few weeks (if that) until the Martians succumb to bacteria. Most of the fifty tripods and their dead occupants are found in a huge camp at Primrose Hill in the centre of London so it is assumed they only spread their destruction as far as London and the Home Counties.
With this in mind most of Britain's manufacturing might was based outside of London in the Midlands and further north where the rich coal seams were located. Although the partial destrucion of London would have an immediate effect on Britain's economy its manufacturing base was still in place. Remember the Martians preferred to use the Black Smoke so much of London's infrastructure was still in place although it is highly likely the Martians would have targetted lines of communication such as railways. To what extent the government and its administration survived is not known.
As I said I think recovery would be relatively quick but Britain's will or ability to maintain an empire may have been in question, her vulnerability to attack had been sensationally highlighted to a world audience and many resources may have been re-directed to defence against another attack. In addition I think many other industrial nations around the world may have been pondering the same thing so it's not unlikely for some sort of international council to be formed to address the issue.
I haven't read the books Somnambulist mentions (I should really) so these are the ponderings and ramblings of a WOTW nut. ;)
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After reading the thoughts of TC (very well put dear boy), it strikes me that there might have been a much earlier world war (say, 1903-4), with other industrial countries seeing how humbled England became and perhaps they would think to take advantage of the situation. If that is the case then a nineteen thirties world probably wouldn't have a certain moustachoed chap raising his ugly head on the world scene.
Would the fact that the 'First World War' was ten years earlier make any impact on the technology race (assuming that we didn't crack the Martian technology)? Or would things pan out as they have already?
Food for thought maybe :)
cheers
James
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I thoroughly enjoyed reading the "sequel" Edison's Conquest of Mars -
The Earth rallies around when it becomes apparent from observations that Mars is planning a second invasion - of course the Americans save the day by invading the Red Planet with a fleet of electric ships armed with disintegrator rays, led by their inventor - the heroic Thomas Eddison!
Very hammy stuff and not what you're looking for I'm sure! ;)
I always loved the illustration from the Jeff Wayne album of the underground Victoiran city - again probably not what you're looking for as the Martians would have to survive for it to come to pass - fun anyway. :D
From a cynical point of view I would imagine other industrial nations would look on England with envious and probably fearful eyes, what with all that extraterrestrial technology falling under their control - albeit probably useless. The colonies could go either way - wanting a piece of the action as part of a newly dominant British Empire (with the help of martian weaponry) or seeing a good chance to break away and gain independence.
An earlier World War could be a distinct possibility with a posse of nations demanding to send weapon inspectors to England and a pigheaded/proud Blighty refusing! ;)
Conventional weapon development may well speed up - look what happened to the aeroplane's development between the two World Wars.
Could give lots of scope for espionage scenarios, fifth columnist, saboteurs and suchlike as British scientists race to unlock the Martian tech in the face of massive world wide hostility....
... And then the martians could invade again! lol
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Would probably put a different slant on things politically.
Without the Entente-Cordiale the Faschoda incident could easily escalate.
Animosity with the French might actually lead to an Anglo-German alliance - the Kaiser would probably offer to help his cousin (inspired by the new toys in the playroom).
I suspect the Empire would stay fairly loyal, I think the independence movements only really burgeoned after the Great War, and the Martians didn't actually cause any losses to the Empire. It may even draw the Empire closer together - rallying to the cause (in the same way many volunteered in 1914).
As for technology, the Thunderchild may inspire an earlier development/deployment of the Dreadnought. Black smoke would probably inspire earlier use of chemical weapons, but also earlier development of gas masks etc. The book is set pre-Wright brothers, but it might focus more attention onto their achievement, possibly not as a military platform.
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I feel a game of a Very British Martian Invasion Aftermath coming on... >:D
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Great speel Thunderchicken.
You do know its all a story and not real do you?
Very interesting thread.
Can anybody supply more info on the books you are talkng about?
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I feel a game of a Very British Martian Invasion Aftermath coming on... >:D
I concern, wasn't there some rules for a early 1904 great war or some such floating around?
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Some of us were kicking around a 'Back of Beyond in Space' a while ago. The idea I think was that we could do a pulp-sci-fi BoB as the disintergrating Russian Space Empire fights the Astro-Hungarians.
My take on the idea (that I was writing up only last week) was a series of conflicts between 1881 and 1927.
The 'First Martian War', 1881; Martian Invasion of Earth (this is the WotW incident, lasting a couple of months as TC says) - if you want, I don't see why some colonies wouldn't have taken the opportunity to declare independence here; perhaps there was no Boer War/unification of South Africa, for instance, or General Gordon might have been recalled from Sudan before his disasterous expedition or something like that, so some bits of history could be very dfferent
'Second Martian War', 1886-1895; Earth nations, particularly British (as they have best access to Martian technology and eventually start to work out interplanetary travel) invade Mars - this is a slightly 'Martian Empires' kind of thing, a colonial scramble leading to diferent competing zones of influence and control, but is fairly short-lived as war is hard to sustain at such a distance and colonies continue to slowly develop
'Third Martian War', 1909-16; this is more of a series of space-battles, between the Aether Fleets of Britain and Russia versus France and Austria (and allies of all of these) for control of the aether between Earth and Mars, and over territorial rights in outlying parts eg the Asteroid Belt
'Fourth Martian War', 1921-27; Re-invasion by Britain of Mars, to combat Franco-Austrian gains, but both Russian and Austrian zones (especially in the Asteroid Belt) are in revolt - this ties in with the 'BoB in Space idea
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There was a Japanese anime "sequel" to WOTW. I remember posting a link to the trailer in the VSF section.
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This is it:
http://www.wotw-goliath.com/video_trailer.html
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Thanks everyone for the great ideas and food for thought!
Amalric
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I do not think anyone would have wanted to start a great war so early in the century. The big countries were menacing each other but they did not really "need" to go to war because they were still happy with economics.
There had been an economic crisis in 1873, but the expansion of colonialism opened new markets so the economy did quite well till 1913. And then... a new crisis was almost beginning... so... 1914: hey, let's destroy everything so we can find new markets on the ruins! (but it did not work till 1945).
But, economical history does not mean that you cannot imagine a war in 1904 if you want to play it :)
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The aftermath, whichever scenario you invent, will be interesting to game. There's a myriad of tangents so you'll have to let us know how you get on.
Rather than invade Britain I think the industrial powers would be more inward looking as it would not be known if, when or where another Martian attack will happen. It may well be smaller less industrial nations will look to the industrial world for protection and then you have all sorts of land grabbing going on with nations offering the best 'protection treaty' while getting their hands on the best resources (and then probably exploiting them). Mind you, in the epilogue of the book the narrator claims little is being done to prepare for another invasion as there is strong evidence the Martians have landed on Venus and although there is a degree of insecurity, complacency has set in. That's just asking for it! ;).
Whether Britain shared the Martian technology or not I think there would still be a great deal of espionage, it's all about trust. On the other hand in the book the narrator tells us scientists couldn't grasp Martian technology, especially the heat ray, 'The terrible disasters at the Ealing and South Kensington laboraories have disinclined analysis for further investigation......'.
You do know its all a story and not real do you?
Would certainly have made history lessons at school more interesting :)
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Well here is one way of looking at it.
Whether the Martian technology worked or did not work, the very fact creatures came from space (though of as insane back then let alone today where its more widely accepted life may well be out there) and the technology these creatures used would have spurred humanity on to quickly design its own weapons (bring on ze steampunk!) as it has always done in such situations of war with industrial countries, considering big tech advances in WW1 and WW2.
Society would have also have been turned on its head, given how religious society was back then, to just have something like that come down would be a major slap in the face to the backbone of the victorian world.
So you could imagine the riots and wars as a result of that.
As for the colonies, and perhaps most of Earth I am suspecting many would find it unbelieveable and carry on as normal.
Though a direct attack on one of the greatest powers at the time may have spurred greater attempts at expansion for more resources and territory.
Thats my 2 cents.
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"The danger posed by this unprovoked attack must be met with force! It is time to take the war to the invaders, think of the resources, colonies and prestige to be gained by the conquers of the Red Planet. We must also think of bringing the true faith and culture to our little slimy brothers on that blighted planet." Sir Imperial Expansionists, on "the Crisis faced by the Empire", London Times.
Does anyone doubt there would have been quite a few comments of this nature after the Martians defeat? A race to build the necessary technology to reach, conquer and exploit Mars would have been a natural. Why attack Earthly neighbors when whole new territories would soon be available ( think the race to take the lands of the New World after Columbus's shattering of the European concept of the world).
Prof
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http://worldhistoryprof.blogspot.com/
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"The danger posed by this unprovoked attack must be met with force! It is time to take the war to the invaders, think of the resources, colonies and prestige to be gained by the conquers of the Red Planet. We must also think of bringing the true faith and culture to our little slimy brothers on that blighted planet." Sir Imperial Expansionists, on "the Crisis faced by the Empire", London Times.
Excellent lol
These are the new economical markets I was talking about in my previous post. No need on Earth for WWI then!
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Well, this reminds me that although I am a great fan of the musical adaptation by Jeff Wayne I have in fact not yet read the book. Well the book is sitting on my girlfriends shelve so I guess I know how I will be spending tomorrow then. :D
What I am wondering is this, if earth would start producing arms to protect itself from any possible future invasions what form would they take? In this scenario England and in fact the world are the less advanced country and I think that when it comes to armoured combat (which I suppose this is with the walkers) the underdog often arms itself with smaller one use weapons that put the user in danger but turn every soldier into a treat to the enemy. Think LAW or IED. Of course the weapons to bring down the Martians might need to be more advanced, but I can imagine some brave soul blowing a leg of a tripod by attaching a explosive device to it. We all know the scenario, hiding in the ruins until the metal monstrosity is close enough, the fear of being detected etz.
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Both Scarlet Traces and The Great Game have endless little bits of stolen martian tek all throughout the story. Spider-legged hansom cabs and such like. The stories are quite good and the art is fantastic!!! No project should be undertaken without first consulting these great graphic novels.
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I think there's a prospect of British scientists and engineers reverse-engineering the Martian tech from the salvaged remains from the Invasion. It could pan out as a kind of 'Roswell/Area 51' kind of scenario so beloved of some conspiracy theorists. lol
But while I don't think the other nations will be too eager to exploit the British Empire's temporary weakness by declaring war, there'll be plenty of opportunity for espionage and Colonial clashes.
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... It could pan out as a kind of 'Roswell/Area 51' kind of scenario so beloved of some conspiracy theorists. lol...
I think you'll find that the British version is called 'Torchwood'... ;)
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Well, how interesting this discussion came up just now, as I've happened to bee pondering this very question for the last few days.
There are many things that are left ambigous by Wells. For example, what has happened with the Royal Navy? Apart from the Thunderchild, did it become involved in the fighting in any way? Did it sustain losses? Was it gutted, or escaped almost entirely unscathed?
But here are a few speculations;
FINANCIAL MELTDOWN
The sudden destruction of London will probably have dire economic consequences. London was the financial center of the world. I susppose many financial records would have been lost, leading perhaps to a situation similar to the one in the "Dark Angel" TV series in which the USA was brought down by a terrorist attack wiping out the financial data of the country. And this will have a domino-effect of the kind we've been only too familiar with the last two years.
BOER WAR
The Martian invasion happened in the Autumn of 1900 (the first cylinder launched in September). By this time the British had already captured Pretoria (in June), but the Boers were by no means crushed and fought on into 1902. It all depends how the British would have responded to the Martian invasion. Would they have offered a reasonable peace to the Boers and brought home as many troops as possible? Would they have sent home part of the troops and fought on? I consider these to be the most likely scenarios. So either the Boer republics live on past 1900 after a status quo peace, or the war drags on for a while longer, after which the British call it a day because the cost of the war has become prohibitive in view of the costs of reconstruction and the depression likely following the destruction of London. So my take is the Martians save the Boer’s bacon.
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continued from previous post
MILITARY TECHNOLOGY
Let us, for the sake of discussion, consider the epilogue to ”The War of the Worlds” gospel and humanity was unable to reproduce or understand crucial parts of Martian technology for at least two decades after the invasion.
Still, the weapons used by the Martians would have inspired Earthly similes. The Black Smoke might have been impossible to replicate, but the idea to use poisonous gasses in war would have proven itself a decade and a half earlier, and most likely been implemented. At the same time, protection gear against poisonous gasses would have been created almost instantly, as part of the inevitable preparations against a second Martian wave.
Also, the idea of anti-equipment artillery (rather than anti-personnel field artillery), that is to say what we today would call anti-tank or anti-aircraft guns would have appeared almost overnight after the invasion. British field guns proved capable of destroying fighting machines in the cases where they managed to hit them – the development of guns capable of very accurate direct fire against moving targets would have been a matter of course, again as parts of the preparations against a second attack by the Martians and their fighting machines.
The fighting machines themselves would undoubtedly have created such an impression that they would have spawned the creation of AFVs, substituting tripod legs with wheels and heat rays with machine guns and cannon. Contraptions like the bizarre Russian Czar tank, towering over the landscape on gigantic spoked wheels, immediately spring to mind – the height of the Martian fighting machines would have led engineers in that direction, rather than ground-crawling true tanks.
On the other hand, such an AFV would have been very vulnerable to the Martian heat ray, so if the overriding design demand was a vehicle capable of going up against the fighting machines, a medium sized tracked machine with light armor but thick thermal shielding (asbestos padding) armed with accurate direct-fire cannon seems the most likely answer.
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You do know its all a story and not real do you?
haha
I like this comment!
However, none of us where there at the time, so it could well have happened but no-one wanted to record it as real history!!!
History is an abstraction, after-all.
Interesting thinking though, the whole 'what if'ing' of a 'what if' scenario...
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Society would have also have been turned on its head, given how religious society was back then, to just have something like that come down would be a major slap in the face to the backbone of the victorian world.
So you could imagine the riots and wars as a result of that.
I like Brummie's point. The Martian invasion would likely open up even more potential for cults than what was already happening in the religiously crazy 19th Century. There could be pseudo-science cults, alien god cults, and astro spiritualist cults. Considering that the 2nd bloodiest war in history had just been fought in China over the Taiping religious rebellion, the type of religious cataclysm that could have been provoked by the Martian invasion might rock the world. That kind of thing could have undermined the rampant nationalism that led to the Great War, transferring some of the energy spent on national conflicts into conflicts over science, religion, and interstellar versions of Darwinism and Marxism.
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interstellar versions of (...) Marxism.
I would like to know more about this one :D
There was a man who wrote some delirious ideas about that, but much later : nickname "Juan Posadas", in the 1970s.
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Well there is strange glimpses of evidence to suggest that Mars may have had an environment that could have sustained life during the time span of Humanities existence on Earth. There was something i read a while back where people 2000 years ago, if they had a telescope good enough, they would have seen a very different mars.
However something ( a vast comet) tore apart an already fragile environment and in the few thousand years since any signs of life or life itself would have just vanished from the surface of Mars. The only way you'd know if anything substantial came to be there is if you dug very deep.
If you had a very far stretching What if, and if you believe in Steven Hawkings theory that there is in fact many parallel Universes to this one that would be in endless in nature and change of every possibility. Well, maybe Mars was never hit my an asteroid, maybe it did have advanced intelligent life and maybe they did hit Earth?!
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This is it:
http://www.wotw-goliath.com/video_trailer.html
Its been three, or even four years since I first saw a trailer for that film, and I'm still waiting for it to be released. I wonder whats gone wrong with it
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.... interstellar versions of ... Marxism.
I would like to know more about this one...
Well in my pulp games, the second wave of martians came in 1908 and were mostly destroyed whilst trying to land in the tunguska region of Siberia. The martian survivors, with only a few bits of their tech, then slowly took over the Russian empire and introduced the most inhuman form of government ever known to man, Communism. Is it a coincident that Mars is the Red planet and the soviets are known as the Reds or that they were the first humans to successfully use Martian tech?
How else do you explain designs like this if not for their Martian overlords?
(http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/other/tsar_szaloga1.jpg)
(http://www.telefonica.net/web2/akiv/tank13.jpg)
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Well in my pulp games, the second wave of martians came in 1908 and were mostly destroyed whilst trying to land in the tunguska region of Siberia. The martian survivors, with only a few bits of their tech, then slowly took over the Russian empire and introduced the most inhuman form of government ever known to man, Communism
Aaargh. About history... hum... in 1908 Karl Marx was already dead since 25 years so the people on our planet had no need to listen to the Martians to decide about the most inhuman forms of human politics (...and that would be another discussion...!). The 2nd Socialist International already existed, and there had been event in Russia in 1905...
But let's talk Pulp :). Very interesting pics of Martian/Russian tech you have there, congratulations!
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Aaargh. About history... hum... in 1908 Karl Marx was already dead since 25 years so the people on our planet had no need to listen to the Martians to decide about the most inhuman forms of human politics (...and that would be another discussion...!). The 2nd Socialist International already existed, and there had been event in Russia in 1905...
But let's talk Pulp :). Very interesting pics of Martian/Russian tech you have there, congratulations!
Ah, history smistory, why let that get in the way of good ole pulp. Besides, isn't it more fun for the the commies to be martian reds? ;)
As for the tank, its called the Tsar's Tank and I can'tclaim any credit for the thing or the pics either.
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Ah, history smistory, why let that get in the way of good ole pulp. Besides, isn't it more fun for the the commies to be martian reds? ;)
As for the tank, its called the Tsar's Tank and I can'tclaim any credit for the thing or the pics either.
You're telling this all wrong. Martians, for whom the ability to grow a beard was almost unheard of except in their highest priests, were drawn to Marxist belief as would a fly to honey. They ended up in control of Russia, which is filled with mens with beards, by being able to drink the Russians under the table, thus being last one standing.
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But don't you realise that 'Karl Marx' actually means 'man of Mars'?
:o
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You're telling this all wrong. Martians, for whom the ability to grow a beard was almost unheard of except in their highest priests, were drawn to Marxist belief as would a fly to honey. They ended up in control of Russia, which is filled with mens with beards, by being able to drink the Russians under the table, thus being last one standing.
I'm just going to assume you were exceedingly drunk when you wrote this. ;)
And worse, that you hadn't invited me over to share your windfall of stuff to get exceedingly drunk on!
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I'm just going to assume you were exceedingly drunk when you wrote this. ;)
And worse, that you hadn't invited me over to share your windfall of stuff to get exceedingly drunk on!
Sadly no alcohol in sight, save the empty Hobgoblin bottle on my desk from weeks ago. So no, I wasn't ungenerous in sharing my non-existent alcohol. :)
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But don't you realise that 'Karl Marx' actually means 'man of Mars'?
What a dunce I am for not noticing that!
It's so obvious.
I just stumbled upon this WWW2/Martian Invasion web comic,
http://www.bombshelterzine.com/wordpress/ (http://www.bombshelterzine.com/wordpress/)
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Their was a 2000AD strip set about 10 years after the Martian Invasion where Martian technology had put Britain far beyond the other major powers but resulted in massive unemployment and social unrest. Alternatively in Space Captain Smith, War of the worlds is explained as a cover-up for an actual invasion (Wells simply exaggerated some of the details to improve circulation).