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Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Plynkes on April 20, 2011, 08:05:36 PM
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Does anybody other than Old Glory make late 19th/early 20th Century Sudanese (i.e. Egyptian Army) Infantry? I bought some of the Old Glory ones years ago and immediately dismissed them as useless upon their arrival. Got them out of their holding cell today to see if I might have mellowed towards them any.
I haven't.
They are fucking horrible. Badly sculpted, leaning forward in a way that suggests they are walking into a force 9 gale, waving their rifles around like idiots, and about half of them inordinately preoccupied with something happening just behind their left shoulder. Ugh.
We're talking Omdurman campaign and beyond here (jersey, puttees, ankle boots, covered fez), so the Perry ones, nice as they are, won't really cut it. Martinis would do, I'd really like them with Lee Enfields, but I don't suppose I can afford to be fussy about what rifles they're carrying (I actually want them for the Great War era). I'll convert if I have to, but I'd rather not. Surely somebody makes an Omdurman range that sucketh not. Please tell me they do.
Ta. :)
Oh, and another thing. Just why in the hell should a Google images search using the terms "28mm Sudanese Infantry" end up producing a bunch of pictures of Paris Hilton, Justin Bieber and Vanessa Hudgens? Does it just return anything it likes after the first ten pages or so, because it figures nobody will bother looking that far in? Grrr... >:( lol
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Redoubt?
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Bicorne Miniatures have two suitable figures:
BIC-C041 Sudanese Infantry standing at the ready 1898 £1.15
BIC-C172 Sudanese infantry marching 1898 £1.15
Couldn't find any pics, but here's one of their Italians:
(http://www.bicorne.net/catalog/img/BIC-C004.jpg)
hopefully that will give you an idea, but sadly i've never seen the Sudanese themselves, so can't comment
Here's the URL, just in case they fmight be of interest:
http://www.bicorne.net/catalog/index.php/cPath/292_1_27_28/sort/2a/page/1
I don't know which is worse - a dearth of good Sudanese figures, or pics of Justin Fucking Bieber >:(
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They are fucking horrible.
Really? I bought some of their 1882 Egyptians a month or so ago and, whilst basic, I thought them very usable. But, I suppose that’s OG for you... ::)
Essex appear to, although I've no idea what they will be like. I've some of their Ansar, and, well, they're alrightish:
http://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/frames25col.html
On the subject of Bicorne. Well. Their Italians look nice, don't they? Here's a picture of one of their Sudanese figures:
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc183/answeris42/Models/DSCF1120.jpg)
I would advise against them... ;)
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Castaway Arts make a couple of models named as Sudanese, don't know if they will fit the bill for you. I have a load of their 1890s Italians and Ethiopians and found them nice, cleanly cast and finely detailed models, if not quite up to the standard of Paul Hicks.
Link here:
http://www.castawayarts.com.au/catalog/catalog_main.php?cmd=groupload&group=10
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I think you are out of luck Dylan. The Castaway versions are circa 1882 and as the picture viividly portrays, the Bicorne ones also fall into the 'fucking horrible' category. Actually the only decent Bicorne minis I've seen are the ECW ones but they are by a different sculptor.
The only Omdurman period Sudanese I can think of, off hand, are both 25mm. Essex, which weren't bad and Minifigs, which were, well Minifigs.
Oh hang on if you can live with 30mm, then I think that Stadden or Tradition or one of that particular miliewu may have made some. Not sure what they would mix with in your collection.
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I forgot about Redoubt. They look pretty nice, but unfortunately I have some of the Redoubt range and they're a bit bloomin' massive. I need figs that won't look stupidly big next to some Perry minis I'm going to convert. Dammit, they would've been fine. Cock! :?
Answer is, what the Hell is that... that thing?
Edit: Thanks, Carlos. I think I'm going to have to go the more expensive and pain-in-the-arsey conversion route. But never mind, eh? I have something in mind that will do the trick without too much fuss, just a bit of headswapping and a bit of Greenstuff here and there. Already done something very similar as a test, but was hoping I wouldn't have to do a shedload.
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Already done something very similar as a test, but was hoping I wouldn't have to do a shedload.
This is the fellow in question...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/2KAR2.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/2KAR.jpg)
2 (Nyasaland) KAR in Somaliland in 1903. But paint his fez khaki instead of black and Bob's your uncle: One Sudanese fella. Near enough.
So at least I have something to fall back on. :)
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That's pretty bloody impressive. Still I can understand your desire not to have to replicate it on a large scale. I'm of the 'if it involves more than a headswap or a few lead foil straps, then bugger it' school of thought.
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Oh, and another thing. Just why in the hell should a Google images search using the terms "28mm Sudanese Infantry" end up producing a bunch of pictures of Paris Hilton, Justin Bieber and Vanessa Hudgens? Does it just return anything it likes after the first ten pages or so, because it figures nobody will bother looking that far in? Grrr... >:( lol
I've noticed this, there was a time when an image search was just a deepening pit of goodies, but now - like you say- it becomes the picture desk of a sleb mag. :-[
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Answer is, what the Hell is that... that thing?
Arab/Ansar Artilleryman standing with bucket, according to the Bicorne site. I paid £1.15 for him and a couple of his friends, which I'm rather bitter about. Well and truly the worst figures I have ever seen for sale. What is perhaps more shocking is that there is an entire range of them!
Those conversions of yours, on the other hand, are rather superb and inspired.
How many Sudanese chaps do you need? I can imagine that converting a unit of 20 or so could be a real bugger.
(and at what point do we get to see some photos of these in a game?!) :P
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Nice miniature and very nice PJ. Where is the head from? I like the face.
Google is never wrong! Surely you knew that Paris Hilton, Justin Bieber and Vanessa Hudgens all have actually served in the Sudanese army at some point or other. I read that in a historical publication. Heat Magazine or something or other.
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[quote author=Remington link=topic=28501.msg344072#msg344072 date=
Google is never wrong! Surely you knew that Paris Hilton, Justin Bieber and Vanessa Hudgens all have actually served in the Sudanese army at some point or other. I read that in a historical publication. Heat Magazine or something or other.
[/quote]
There speaks a true scholar! Plynkes, where's your fine fella from?
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On the subject of Bicorne. Well. Their Italians look nice, don't they? Here's a picture of one of their Sudanese figures:
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc183/answeris42/Models/DSCF1120.jpg)
I would advise against them... ;)
What the F.... Is that??? It's like a 1970's monster from Doctor Who (the days before the
BBC had mountains of mullah!). I migh add it to my zombie 'interest' pile. Truely the work of a drunk with a blindfold on (and before you ask, no I couldn't do better...)
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How many Sudanese chaps do you need? I can imagine that converting a unit of 20 or so could be a real bugger.
As a devout skirmish gamer, twenty would be plenty (they will have an HMG, some Camel Corps and an aeroplane for company). But knowing me I'll get bored and stop before I reach ten.
Just want enough to do a 1916 version of Björn's "Find the Waterhole" Sudan skirmish scenario that he ran at Tactica, as it fits the setting perfectly (skirmishes between fanatical Jibbah-clad Fur warriors and Sudanese scouts looking for vital water supplies for the column were the typical encounter of the campaign I have in mind). Darfur has to be one of the most inhospitable places a British force has ever tried to penetrate. Getting to Khartoum was a doddle by comparison. There just is no bloody water source in the western part other than rain. And it never rains. lol
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Darfur.jpg)
I hear it remains a cheerful, friendly place to this day.
Remington, it's from a Woodbine Designs Senegalese head sprue. Unfortunately these heads are a little less than ideal, as the French Zouave-type Fez is distinctively wide and floppy, and doesn't really look like a rigid Egyptian one. However, this one head in the set has a fez that does just about match. Either I remodel the fezzes of the others with putty, just use all of that one head type for my boys (resulting in something of a Star Wars Clone Army), or I look elsewhere for fezzed heads. Another headache if I go down this avenue, but only a little one.
Ignatieff, the head as described above, the body is Perry Camel Corps, with the tunic remodelled into a jumper. Pretty simple job.
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Just want enough to do a 1916 version of Björn's "Find the Waterhole" Sudan skirmish scenario that he ran at Tactica
Brilliant idea, but wouldn't want to be in your shoes... First convert 20 miniatures and then paint them. Sheesh! Poor fella.
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Very nice conversion…I am also interested in some good Sudanese Infantry for the time after 1885. I would like to use them for some smaller action around Suakin.
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That is a very good conversion. Just what my Darkest Africa forces need!
It looks relatively simple to do and only the only extra expense is the Senegalese heads. It will be easy enough to do proper "stiff" fezzes in green stuff (after doing Slash's top hat they will be a doddle lol ), so for a small unit that is definitely achievable :D
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Thanks for all the suggestions, by the way. I think I forgot to say that.
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It will be easy enough to do proper "stiff" fezzes in green stuff (after doing Slash's top hat they will be a doddle lol )
If you feel like stretching yourself, 2 KAR were also known to sport a rather natty Kullah and Pagri combination on occasion, and it was the standard headgear of 6 (Somaliland) KAR...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Ethiop039b.jpg)
I plan to try my hand at it, but I'm still not too great at the old Green Stuff lark.
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how about chopping some Perry ACW plastics into something suitable?
just an idea - I can't really judge if any parts will really do
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Easier work maybe (given that it is plastic), but a lot, lot more of it.
The Perry Camel Corps are basically right for the job, except for the jacket (which you have to make into a jersey by filing and greenstuffing), and their head, which you need to find a replacement for. Their equipment is as near as damn it correct as it is. ACW figures have the wrong rifle, wrong gear, and wrong or no leggings (all of which would need seeing to), and then you'd still have to turn the jacket into a jersey and find a new head.
But I am using some Perry ACW plastics for something else British in Africa-related, so you really are not far off the mark at all. More on that another time... ;)
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Just why in the hell should a Google images search using the terms "28mm Sudanese Infantry" end up producing a bunch of pictures of Paris Hilton, Justin Bieber and Vanessa Hudgens?
You are very lucky. With the same Google research I don't see any of these, I get lot of pictures of toy soldiers.
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I forgot about Redoubt. They look pretty nice, but unfortunately I have some of the Redoubt range and they're a bit bloomin' massive. I need figs that won't look stupidly big next to some Perry minis I'm going to convert. Dammit, they would've been fine. Cock! :?
Answer is, what the Hell is that... that thing?
Edit: Thanks, Carlos. I think I'm going to have to go the more expensive and pain-in-the-arsey conversion route. But never mind, eh? I have something in mind that will do the trick without too much fuss, just a bit of headswapping and a bit of Greenstuff here and there. Already done something very similar as a test, but was hoping I wouldn't have to do a shedload.
I would not rule out Redoubt due to size. The British are huge but the Egyptians I have are almost exactly the size of Perry, see picture below(I could unfortunately not edit/turn the photo on my phone). I would expect the Sudanese be similar size as their Egyptian cousins:
(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww323/Travellera/76a28575.jpg)
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Well that is good news. I had assumed they would be the same size as the ones I have, as they are from the same range.
I think I'll chance it and get a few just to see. Many thanks, Traveller.
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Hmmm those Redoubt figures look quite acceptable and if they are ok size wise.....
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I would not rule out Redoubt due to size.
Thanks indeed! I'll get a couple to check, too.
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It seems that the Perry are getting bigger as time goes by. The Sculpts they did in the Foundry days very really smallish and the first ECW sculpts in Perry Miniatures were also small. I was surprised to see how tall their Sudan Egyptians and British are. I don't mind though, big is beautiful ;)
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It seems that the Perry are getting bigger as time goes by. The Sculpts they did in the Foundry days very really smallish and the first ECW sculpts in Perry Miniatures were also small. I was surprised to see how tall their Sudan Egyptians and British are. I don't mind though, big is beautiful ;)
Their Sudan Royal Navy figures are very close to the Copplestone versions. I posted a pic of some officers from each range next to each other and as far as I'm concerned they are very compatible. Slightly less bulky, but not a problem. Perry titchiness is something of a myth nowadays. They will never be the biggest of figures, but their Sudan range works nicely with most other 28 ranges.
If Mr Plynkes does get some Redoubt Sudanese, I'd be very interested in seeing them alongside the usual suspects.
Anything to save a couple of hours of arduous green stuff sculpting lol
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Perry aren't small at all, I'm not sure why so many folks think they are. They fit in with Foundry Darkest Africa fine, at least to my eyes. They are a bit more slender in build, but they aren't short.
They do look rather daft next to the bigger Redoubt ones though. Totally different ends of the scale. Redoubt seem to be a bit of a lottery. I bought a few samples of different ranges a while back, because I was only shopping for a couple of individual figures and I had to buy some other things to meet their minimum order value rule. Their Wellington in India and Three Musketeers figures are massive, like bordering on 35-40mm or something, and to be frank, aren't very good. However, their ACW figures are pretty nice, and also fit in with a reasonable person's idea of 28mm figure size. If Traveller is right (and there is no reason to believe he isn't), their Sudan stuff exhibits the same kind of variation within a single range. Which really, is pretty stupid.
If Mr Plynkes does get some Redoubt Sudanese, I'd be very interested in seeing them alongside the usual suspects.
No problem. Will do. I'll order some in a minute or tomorrow at the very latest. :)
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They've finally arrived and they look pretty big. Oh well, bang goes that idea. I think that sinks the whole project, because I'm thoroughly sick of converting. :-[
I'll do some comparison pics later on today so you can judge for yourself.
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Thanks :(
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Bugger. That sort of thing does rather take the wind out of one's sails, so my commiserations.
Sudanese do tend to be rather tall folk, at least all the ones I've met are. There's always Essex if you want something more dimunitive.
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That's a pity twice... I was hoping they'll work out for you and also looking forward to seeing your conversion.
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Sorry for the delay, haven't really had my hobby head on for the past week or so.
Some shots next to a few of the figures I plan to use in the project:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Size%20Comp/1.jpg)
Next to Perry Mahdist.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Size%20Comp/2.jpg)
Converted Perry.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Size%20Comp/2a.jpg)
Converted Perry.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Size%20Comp/3.jpg)
Brigade Vickers crew.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Size%20Comp/4.jpg)
Perry Mahdist.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Size%20Comp/5.jpg)
Perry Bazinger.
I can do shots with some other manufacturers' figs if you want and if I've got them.
Weird thing is, I know they say the camera never lies, but in these shots they mostly don't look too bad together. But here in this room looking at them with my own eyes the Redoubt figures seem massive next to them somehow. I don't pretend to understand what's going on there.
They aren't exactly the nicest sculpts I've ever held either. But I'm coming round to the idea of using them anyway. Do the traditional thing of keeping them to their own units and just pretending that everything's okay. :)
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Weird thing is, I know they say the camera never lies, but in these shots they mostly don't look too bad together. But here in this room looking at them with my own eyes the Redoubt figures seem massive next to them somehow. I don't pretend to understand what's going on there.
They aren't exactly the nicest sculpts I've ever held either. But I'm coming round to the idea of using them anyway. Do the traditional thing of keeping them to their own units and just pretending that everything's okay. :)
Very odd! They do look compatible (or enough to get away with) in terms of size. The one next to the Perry Mahdist in "turban" and sleeveless robe is almost exactly in scale :?
The only problem, judging by the photos, would be the differences in the rifles. The Redoubts' do look much bigger, which is a minus point for me. The style of sculpting doesn't look too promising, but I'm sure with your nifty brushwork you'll bring them up to the standard of the others.
I'm still looking forward to seeing how they look painted in one of your game reports :D
The more I see of your converted Perrys, though, the more attractive a proposition they look to be.
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That is odd indeed. I was just about ready to question your decision, but you seem as baffled by this as we are. :D I am certain though, that if unpainted they make such an ambivalent impression, painted they'll improve their compatibility considerably. They are not bad as a product though. Pleasantly surprised actually.
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I've got some Redoubt colonial rocketeers and perry camel corps...the difference in size is tremendous. It's a lot more noticeable than these photos would suggest. The Redoubt figures are towering.
I actually like the Redoubt figures better but, I'm guessing I'm in the minority on that one.
The conversions are excellent by the way.
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I think they look bloody massive and would never consider using them. But, that's me. ::)
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I'm gonna have to back up from assessment that the Redoubt figures are huge up against the Perry figures.
I put a Redoubt highlander next to a Perry Camel Corps figure and the difference is really not that great. In fact if the Perry figure wasn't leaning forward they almost be exactly the same height...rifles and canteens are almost the same too.
I don't know what's going on.
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I'm gonna have to back up from assessment that the Redoubt figures are huge up against the Perry figures.
I put a Redoubt highlander next to a Perry Camel Corps figure and the difference is really not that great. In fact if the Perry figure wasn't leaning forward they almost be exactly the same height...rifles and canteens are almost the same too.
....and yet the Beja are noticeably different:
(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr255/the_gluteus_maximus/Wargames/185-1.jpg?t=1306864741)
I don't know what's going on.
Neither do I, but I'm used to that lol
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Sorry Plunkes, can't help you with any other choices. But I just have to say I agree with you about a lot of Old Glory models. Wish they'd get with the program and start to do a better job. :-[
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....and yet the Beja are noticeably different:
(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr255/the_gluteus_maximus/Wargames/185-1.jpg?t=1306864741)
Neither do I, but I'm used to that lol
It's gotten even more confusing.
I got some Redoubt infantry from the Zulu War...GIANTS compared to Perry figs. So, I thought the Redoubt Sudan range must be smaller (they actually seem fine next to Perry Camel Corps) but, after seeing that I'm completely confused again...as usual :).
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I'm knocking on the head the idea of using these Redoubt figures. The size difference is something I could have lived with had they been killer sculpts. But too big and horrid mishapen lumpy-head men is a no-no.
So if anyone wants them they may have them for nothing with my compliments. I have about sixteen of them. EU gets first dibs. If nobody from the EU wants them I'll send them further afield. In the (highly likely if you people have got any sense) event that no bugger at all wants them, then I shall bury them in the garden in a circle around Terry the Goldfish's grave for future archaeologists to ponder.
"Well, this seems to be the first high-status burial of the Goldfish Culture we've discovered, Tony. None of the others have been found with grave goods. It will totally redefine our view of their society."
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That's a shame! Looks like lots of filing and green-stuffing for you, then :)
I'd take them off your hands, but they wouldn't go with my Perrys, more's the pity.
then I shall bury them in the garden in a circle around Terry the Goldfish's grave for future archaeologists to ponder.
It could be the basis for future ufologists' conspiracy theories of little lumpy aliens invading our planet, only to be stopped by our plucky goldfish chums, fighting to the last ..err.. fish and hushed up by Tory Dave not wanting a mass-panic :?
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Must admit to having a few Redoubt chaps that I use as heroes in our DITDC games, so I would be interested in another 16 - always important to have chiefs who stand out form the crowd, particularly Beja!
I know what you mean about Old Glory - some great sculpts for the Sudan and colonials in general but majority are utter wotsit. Once asked to look at a few bags to check quality and was told in no uncertain terms that I should just buy them unseen! And that's why I buy elsewhere...
PM me if you still want to get rid