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Miniatures Adventure => Other Adventures => Topic started by: YPU on August 08, 2011, 04:23:26 PM

Title: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: YPU on August 08, 2011, 04:23:26 PM
Like many of you I have a whole lot of idea's and plans floating around in my head, some come and go while others stay and grow. (no rhyme intended) One of the idea's I have been totting around for quite a while now is that of a harry potter like skirmish game; imagine if you will a magical castle, a wizardry school in a world fallen on dark times. The established order has fallen and the hidden world of magic is in anarchy after the climactic battle against some dark force or other shattered any balance and order the wizardry community might have once known.
Inside the castle rival gangs duke it out to gain control over the semi-sentient castle, some groups used to be classmates, others fought for the dark lord and are now trying to gain control over the castle, groups of magical creatures and the self defence force of the castle are also on the prowl. Amidst this all are groups of teachers trying to hopelessly establish order.

Just another idea I wasn't planning to do to much with, but some of my regular RPG players as well as wargaming buddies have shown more then the usual interest in this idea, so perhaps it warrants a deeper look.

Now I have a horde of idea's for this game, exploration rules, all sorts of warbands and equipment, using dungeon tiles for random maps etz.

Anyhow, I feel the first step here should be to establish rules. No matter which way you turn it this is going to need customization since nearly every model is going to be a magic user, tough many not of a very high level.
There are a few rule sets  I am currently thinking on.

Savage worlds showdown: Not a common choice on these forums but I like them and think especially the magic system lends itself well to multiple users. I also like the division of extras and heroes.

Flying lead and/or Songs of blades and heroes Flying lead is meant for semi modern "shooter" skirmishes but might also work to represent simple damaging spells flying everywhere, with different weapons to represent different spells perhaps. Songs of blades and heroes is far more a mellee game then a shooters game, and its magic system is less then great IMHO, but it does contain a lot of fantasy staples that could prove helpfull, its rules for dungeons and campaigns could also easily be adapted.

Something custom I could naturally write up my own rules, hopefully with some help from here?

Something else? and not a dead parrot.  lol
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: magokiron on August 08, 2011, 06:59:44 PM
I don't own Occult Wars, but have heard some good things about this set of rules:

http://darksidegames.net/Occult_Wars.html

PLUS Wargames Vault has right now a special offer of the pdf so it's only USD$6.00:

http://www.wargamevault.com/product_info.php?products_id=82135&affiliate_id=333411

Now, for your "Not Harry Potter" adaptation, here you can find a TMP announcement:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=236913

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: coggon on August 09, 2011, 02:18:03 AM
  Savage worlds showdown: Not a common choice on these forums but I like them and think especially the magic system lends itself well to multiple users. I also like the division of extras and heroes.

 

Have you seen the magic system from SW 'Solomon Kane' book?  For me at least in works better for 'combat magic' than the regular SW system.  PM me if you are interested in further details?
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: Puuka on August 09, 2011, 02:29:23 AM
I've been looking for some "not" Harry Potter figs. My GF made a custom HP Monopoly board and just has some cheesy cardboard tokens. I wanted to surprise her with a set of figures, but couldn't find any good ones.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: YPU on August 09, 2011, 09:49:02 AM
Have you seen the magic system from SW 'Solomon Kane' book?  For me at least in works better for 'combat magic' than the regular SW system.  PM me if you are interested in further details?
Its been a while since I laid eyes on the solomon cane book, but it uses a penalty on the roll depending on how powerful the spell is and how many spells the wizard has in play right? I believe that's actually the same system that Showdown uses, as its a lot easier then keeping track of power points. (not all that HP like anyway) I heard the bolt spell, pretty much THE attack spell, so very important for this, has gotten updated in the new savage worlds deluxe edition, I wonder if they will carry the changes over to showdown.

Puuka, Yea I noticed this as well, Hasslefree has Alyx, (link (http://"http://www.hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk/pack.php?pack=2254")) But beyond that I haven't found much either. Its not a huge problem for as I figure this, look at the HP movies, the further they go the fewer people are wearing school uniforms especially in the last movies it get rarer and rarer, so any teen model should do for me really, as the uniforms would really start to get rare after an apocalypse like event.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: coggon on August 09, 2011, 01:25:44 PM
Its been a while since I laid eyes on the solomon cane book, but it uses a penalty on the roll depending on how powerful the spell is and how many spells the wizard has in play right? I believe that's actually the same system that Showdown uses, as its a lot easier then keeping track of power points

That's pretty much it, except you say "penalty roll", I say "difficulty roll" lol  And its a lot easier than keeping track of Power Points.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: YPU on August 09, 2011, 01:53:23 PM
That's pretty much it, except you say "penalty roll", I say "difficulty roll" lol  And its a lot easier than keeping track of Power Points.
Oh yea, I might be a bit rusty on my terms but that system is indeed what is used in the savage worlds skirmish rules (free from the peginc website for anybody wondering) I do seem to remember that book having a few very flavourful spells (animated hands strangling?) tough I seem to remember them taking a long time to cast, after all this game is going to be the magical version of a gang shoot-out.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: coggon on August 09, 2011, 01:59:41 PM
I've never used the magic rules from Showdown (Back story-I was introduced to Showdown by a group I had joined.  Loved the rules so much that I went out and bought The Explorers Edition, and that has served as 'canon' since then.)

FWIW, the only time I used the Kane version, I only had two practitioners of magic on the board, and it worked for us.  Don't know if you are familiar with Harry Dresden at all, but I had a Lei(sp) line running down the middle of the board.  If the spellcaster was on that line, they got a +2 to their roll.  Might work at Hogwarts in that in some parts of the castle, its easier for Harry and the good guys  to cast a spell, and some places its easier for the Death Eaters.  I'll stop with the unsolicited advice now lol
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: YPU on August 09, 2011, 09:25:55 PM
Unsolicited advice is always welcome.

And indeed I am quite aware of Harry Copperfield Blackstone Dresden, one of my favoured series of books I'll have you know.

I am still leaning towards Showdown tough I feel I might need to trim a lot of things down, perhaps edit together a smaller version for myself to work from. For instance intimidate and taunt, on one side I love how they work in the RP game, but I am not entirely sure about using them in a skirmish. Then again it does give some very nice RP elements, you can just imagine some the taunt from a scrawny first year setting the not to smart raider up for a smacking from another character.

Here is a question for you gents, would small groups of extras fit into the setting? would a gang consisting of a few groups of unnamed students and a few named characters be more or less interesting then all character games?

I have a huge number of options in mind for characters, and I am currently leaning towards making some sort of army lists, for different factions. This would then come with all sorts of options for characters to be given op top of that. IE a list of skill packages for teachers of specific classes, plus additional staff, and a list of general options including things like bloodlines or even race (half giant sports teacher, could be a fun model) other options could be background and equipment related, for instance an option that arms your character with a gun, perhaps the teacher used to go out hunting? (shotgun) or maybe a student has criminal ties (uzi?)

The standard gang (a group of students) could include a max of one teacher (class mentor, whatever they call them) while a optional band could consist purely of teachers and staff  (all characters thus very elite but lacking numbers)

Another options would be to make all of that randomly rolled, would make for a very interesting group I am sure but those things always make it harder to find minis. (I am a bit of a stickler for WYSIWYG in skirmish)

any idea's on the matter?
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: Argonor on August 10, 2011, 09:23:13 AM
I've been looking for some "not" Harry Potter figs.

Am actually amazed that noone has made a range of these, yet... or a clix-range...

TMP has a thread: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=145884
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: coggon on August 10, 2011, 02:08:11 PM

How big a game and how many players are you planning on?  I've never used SW as an RPG, only as a skirmish game.  Our SW-SD pulp games are often 5-6 players.  Each player had 1 or 2 Wild cards and 3-4 Extras.  Everyone was more less familiar with the rules, and it went fine as long as the scenario was balanced.

(More unsolicited advice follows  lol)
If it were me, I'd load up the wild cards with quirky edges  and larger dice for their powers.  And don't be afraid to make the extras powerful too, as long as EVERYONE's extras are powerful.

For example, maybe Harry gets a +2 to his spellcasting when facing Deatheaters that he has a grudge against, or maybe Harry could have the edge "No Mercy" against the same Deatheaters?

Insert some some random quirkiness for Bella Lestrange?  I'll get back to you when I figure that one out. ;)

I think the only limit is your imagination


And I would leave 'taunt' in-I think its essential to any game set in a school. lol lol lol
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: YPU on August 10, 2011, 07:42:28 PM
Actually I don't think I will go for named characters, rather taking the basic feel of the setting, putting in a good deal of localized post-pock and stir.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: aducknamedjoe on October 21, 2021, 05:37:05 AM
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I was wondering if anything ever happened with this? It's surprisingly difficult to find any homebrew Harry Potter skirmish games out there.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 21, 2021, 01:27:13 PM
Well, you could try adapting Frostgrave, which would need very little doing to it as it's basically already quite close to the premise in the OP.  :)

Not to mention that, since the original post, Knight Models has recently released a licensed HP skirmish game complete with miniatures... Not homebrew, but it might be of interest all the same.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: aducknamedjoe on October 30, 2021, 01:01:52 AM
Thanks, yeah I'd heard of the Knight Models one but reviews of it have been...poor to middling from what I can see. I'm just shocked with the popularity of the franchise there aren't more conversions or homebrews of existing rulesets, ideally with lists of spells I could yoink...
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: BeneathALeadMountain on November 05, 2021, 09:30:22 PM
I donít know about the game, but a friend, who is a commission artist and a competent modeller, had to paint an entire set for someone and would never touch them again. He said the models were poor and very fragile (especially the all important wands) and simply not worth the time and frustration. Iíve never seen them in person but having seen how traumatised he was by them Iíd avoid at all costs  lol

You can tell Iím of the pre HP generation but I automatically thought of Terry Pratchett and the awesome Unseen University as the perfect setting.

BALM
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: YPU on November 08, 2021, 07:58:58 PM
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I was wondering if anything ever happened with this? It's surprisingly difficult to find any homebrew Harry Potter skirmish games out there.

Sadly no, bunch of ideas on paper but nothing even near playable. I had a faction system I was quite proud of with multiple axis of allegiances but also had a moment where I realized I had multiple "years" of students as levels of effectively soldiers in a war and soured on the idea. If people want I can bung my rough notes on google docs for all to see though. Not too happy with all of it, but it is what it is.

I will say, if I were to do this today I would probably "hack" Pulp alley for it. The shooting in it is diverse and abstracted enough I think and the focus on objectives and puzzles to solve is a plus I feel. Maybe rename some of the attributes.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 22, 2021, 04:51:25 PM
[...]a moment where I realized I had multiple "years" of students as levels of effectively soldiers in a war and soured on the idea. If people want I can bung my rough notes on google docs for all to see though. Not too happy with all of it, but it is what it is.

I sympathise, as despite the overarching story/backdrop of the original series of books, the individual books themselves were more like separate adventures, and even within each book each story was further broken down into a series of puzzles and quests. To go from that to a more "skirmish battles" format would not really recreate how the setting should feel (for me at least).

Perhaps, rather than a game that pits two opposing players' group of students against each other, something that could be played Co-Op or solo would be more appropriate? I'm thinking that a set of rules like Rangers of Shadowdeep would lend itself well to something like this, especially as it already has many of the required elements in place. It also has the advantage that the missions could take place indoors in giant magical castle, or in a village, or a wooded area, or some other suitable setting.

Additional things to consider might be how to represent the different Houses when choosing the Rangers' protagonist students' companions, and perhaps also different age groups (which might be done with difficulty settings). I might also give thought to having a series of specific actions/activities that require solving in different ways (maybe like in Stargrave?) to reflect the more typical things that they could encounter, so that you can put together scenarios more easily (...or even procedurally generate them).
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: N.C.S.E on November 23, 2021, 05:28:43 AM
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I was wondering if anything ever happened with this? It's surprisingly difficult to find any homebrew Harry Potter skirmish games out there.

Late response to this but I suspect it has a lot to do with demographics. The people who grew up with Harry Potter are in their twenties and thirties now and that demographic tends to be weak in wargaming circles or at best only know of Warhammer. Likewise, the demographic that plays Warhammer tends to affect to despise or not care about the series because it's not "cool" enough compared to Warhammer or whatever.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: YPU on November 24, 2021, 05:45:55 PM
Aye Major, I do think there is room for stuff like that. Either go with adult wizard, a bit more Pratchettesque absurdity, get more creative with the setting as well. Or you stick with the teens but make it more of an adventure game rather than straight-up wargame. I'd look at the solo/co-op rules for pulp alley there as well since it allows characters to have multiple areas of expertise outside of straight-up fighting which are used to resolve objectives and obstacles during the game.

Looking at that document again I am full of mixed feelings. 10 years have given me some more nuance in there and there are ideas that I feel could be interesting to explore but would do well with a better writer than me. Replacing house-elves with Imps, who have a liberation army intend on abolishing imp "slavery" is a powerful motive, but I always imagined using goblins like the kings of war vanguard goblin wiz but painted red.

(https://i.imgur.com/dbM7kSq.jpg)

Which gets into that territory where a good writer could make something comedic yet poignant and soulful but slavery is a touchy subject I honestly don't feel comfortable putting in my fantastical "funny" game? Going "its ok they are summoned and bound demons not real slaves" definitely wouldn't be the way to go.

But then I look at the 4 main factions I created, which are the main power blocks that remain after the big dark overlord was sort of defeated but shattered the wizarding world into disarray.

Traditionalists: Both actual druids and new age. Limited on the selection of specific spells they dislike, no modern equipment or forbidden spells. They have easy access to natural beasts and spirits.

Progressives
: Make use of modern technology wherever they can, believe it is high time to take the wizarding world into the 21st century.

Nonconformists: Those who practise the forbidden parts of magic such as necromancy and summoning outsiders, which they believe through study might benefit all, though many secretly desire personal power through any means necessary.

Loyalists: The powers that be, well equipped righteous bigots. Knights and inquisitors. Representing the powers that be, or at least were before the war.


And I quite like this setup. Every faction has some overlap with the others as well as topics they bud heads on. The loyalists and traditionalists are of the old school on most customs, remaining hidden and not using modern technology, but bud heads when it comes to the "status" of magical creatures and beasts such as centaurs and dryads. The rearing of magical monsters like gryphons is something the Loyalists like to legislate and the traditionalists would really rather not have anyone meddle in.

The modernists and nonconformists both are in strong opposition of the established order, rebels alike, but have very different views of what direction should be taken. Both also have feelings about the personhood of demons (like the imps) and vampires. The nonconformists have such creatures in their midst, but don't necessarily battle for their freedom so much as consider them both tools and/or potential allies in the quest for more magic (and power) They match the traditionalists in this way on the topic of magic natural magical creatures, but the traditionalists do not extend these feelings to the darker creatures.

And round and the wheel of alliances goes. See this I quite like and feel somebody smarter could actually DO something with.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: YPU on December 11, 2021, 02:44:43 PM
I should note also, I've been reading a lot of Dresden files and The rivers of London, modern urban fantasy basically. A big wallop of that style added in could be good.
Title: Re: Not Harry Potter skirmish game... no really
Post by: Harry von Fleischmann on December 19, 2021, 08:34:26 AM
I messed around with the idea of HP games myself but decided that I was struggling with it. As you say, the books are a series of puzzle based adventures with the kind of full on magical combat that a wargame really needs, featuring close to the end. Plus, yes, school kids as footsoldiers in a magical war is more than a bit iffy.

My second attempt was a sort of good wizards vs scary beasts game that again, didnít really work.

Perhaps the idea of the Schism at the Unseen University is the way to go, the Wizards are at war and the various schools of types of magic are in a sort of cold war with things getting hot if a new scroll is rumoured to be found.

That said, thatís really Frostgrave I suppose.