Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Argonor on August 22, 2011, 01:20:11 PM
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Maize fields to the so inclined... ;)
I've seen different approaches to this (one used a plastic christmas tree, another the printable paper standees from Spinespur, and I have been toying with an idea of silk paper (roll it, cut the end, pull out to a stick with 'leaves')), but what is the best solution?
It has to be easily stored, so probably 'one row/strip'.
It has to be playable without damaging painted minis.
It has to be pretty fast to make - I would like to have enough for a faily large field without having to spend all available hobby time for the next 6 months...
It has to have a fairly low average cost per stalk/plant
Is there some plastic deco plant that can be used?
I have a stalled Alien Probe Landing project that I would like to get back to, soonish...
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I found this thread after a couple of searches more: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=13309.0
Might be a viable solution, if I can get some of those 'balls' from somewhere :?
And I posted this in Open Talk by mistake - thought I was in Workbench. ::)
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Coincidentally, I had a reason to build those fields recently. Unfortunately I ran out of time so the project is currently on hold. However, I managed to acquire two different materials.
The first is exactly the same as those aquarium balls, I think. I managed to find them in a store selling all sorts of cheap junk, including plastic plants for home and shop decoration. If I recall correctly, the very same stems come in ball and mat form. Identical four-stem bases can be plucked out from both. I paid 2.95e for the mat version. As you can see, these plants are fairly big, possibly so big that some chopping down is needed.
Another option is the Busch H0 1202 Cornfield kit, mentioned in the other thread and seen here (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=26746.msg330562#msg330562). I got that one too in my order of assorted Busch stuff. There's one review and detailed assembly guide here (http://modeltrain.servehttp.com/layout.nsf/1/corn) (although at the moment of writing the server is down). Because it's a H0 kit for proper scale models, the stalks are on a small side for 28mm gaming, where most details are exaggerated. They're still large enough to cover man-sized models, though. They're also quite plausible if you assume a smaller cultivar, harsh conditions, or mid-growth stage, or simply accept some scale drifting. You can make them very realistic with proper assembly, twisting and painting. They come in tightly packed 10 cm strips.
Now, considering your requirements, the aquarium/decoration plants sound better. While the Busch field may end up looking better in close inspection, the stalks are small and somewhat brittle. They require some close (and tedious) work to get the most out of the details. The individual strips can be kept separate and transported carefully. Anyway, that pack will only make about 10x20 cm of field. Spreading it out is difficult due to the tightly packed strips. Of course, you can surround a field base with a few layers of stands, and place the miniatures in the middle.
The decoration plants, on the other hand, can be prepared with a rough chopping job followed by matt coating, washes and generous drybrushing. There's no risk of breaking them - they're thick and bendy plastics. They can be thrown unprotected in a cardboard box and kicked across the room with no significant risk of damage. You don't get ready strips, but the stalks are fast to arrange to any kind of clusters. One ball/mat will make a large field, which can be spread out easily. Finally, they're dirt cheap. The trade-off would be the rougher overall look with no cool details.
So, of these options, I'd recommend the bendy junk plants for large, robust gaming terrain if you're not too picky about close-up realism. The Busch field is potentially very pretty but also more brittle, expensive and time-consuming.
I can post comparison shots of the plain products in near future, maybe. Regarding finished products, it won't be near future we're talking about...
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Here's an option for you:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=20284.60
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I used the chopped up aquarium balls - see link in first post - and they are still going strong. Must admit I've stopped using the base that I made and just rank them up on the table, removing the odd one from the mass if I have a figure hiding inside.
Some not very good photos from a game report - one at a distance and the other close up.
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g22/imagebucket_2006/wargaming/SP_Raid-on-Butlers-Landing_38.jpg)
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g22/imagebucket_2006/wargaming/SP_Raid-on-Butlers-Landing_39.jpg)
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A review of the Busch HO scale maiz field here (multiple photos):
http://modeltrain.servehttp.com/layout.nsf/1/corn
Note that Busch also makes hops, sunflowers, tulips, and a pumpkin patch.
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Fantastic responses, as always 'round here!
Thanks guys!
I now consider the cheap plastic ones as the main bulk of the field, then maybe Busch in one or 2 rows nearest to the open areas, to accentuate the type of crop - and if playing on a large table, long fake grass ('synthetic lawn' or 'imitation grass') more distantly, where only UFOs and the USRC will move (flying, that is... ;) ). I guess the USRC is the only proper response to an Alien incursion, anyway ::)
Also need some baseball players, of the ethereal kind, I think.... and some evil children ;D
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If you want some of that fake grass I've enough samples that you could cut a far few corn plants from, let me know.
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I may well take you up on that... Better than nothing to start with, anyway, and it can always be used as 'filler'.
Gee, I wish I can finish my garage attic, soon. I really need a place with some makeshift tables to spread out WIPs to get a better overview....
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I may well take you up on that... Better than nothing to start with, anyway, and it can always be used as 'filler'.
Gee, I wish I can finish my garage attic, soon. I really need a place with some makeshift tables to spread out WIPs to get a better overview....
I'll start looking for them, otherwise if you contact any of the companies they'll send you some offcuts/samples, that's what these were.
Cheers
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Anyone got any similar suggestions for a wheatfield (or barley, rye, etc)?
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Anyone got any similar suggestions for a wheatfield (or barley, rye, etc)?
I guess, the unripe version can be obtained with the fake grass... but grainfields are so much more difficult to make realistic, unless you base it all on mini-sized based and simply remove the crop where a mini ends up (like the corn/maizefield in an example above).
An idea that just struck me is: Make a 'frame' base to give a nice edge to the field, then have tons of small bases inside to move around when the minis enter...? Naturally, you can have many different sizes of 'frames' for different shapes, and re-use the bases. Hmmm... o_o
If the doormats that people often use for ripe grains can be cut in round shapes without disintegrating (at least until it is glued safely to a base), that might be the way to go?
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I was thinking of maybe doing it in strips. Seems like another sort-of-okay gamplay vs. aesthetics compromise.
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JTT Scenery Products makes corn stalks in two scales:
1/72 = 1" tall
1/32 = 2-1/4" tall
They're pretty nice.
For reference:
http://www.michtoy.com/item-JTT-95511-Back_In_Stock!_Corn_Stalks.html
http://www.michtoy.com/item-JTT-95512%20-Corn_Stalks.html
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Those are very nice, too, and not that expensive.
Still, for an entire field, I think the cheap solution is most viable (lots of aquarium plants, edged with actual model stalks). If I should use Busch or JTT for the 'edges' will be decided later (if other solutions don't present themselves).
I was thinking of maybe doing it in strips. Seems like another sort-of-okay gamplay vs. aesthetics compromise.
I think the strips have one big disadvantage: When you have minis between them, they will start looking like rows instead of a closely growing field - this problem is non-existant with corn/maize, as it should be a field of rows, anyway.
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sometimes in a childs farm set there `crops` which are good for shape that could be used as a pattern to make many more to your own size,& dont cost much.
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Yes, I just think that with the sheer number needed, a 'bulk' buy is called for ;)
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Found the samples, let me know if you want/need them mate.
The Commander
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Not sure if this helps, but I made some cornstalks for one of my zombie survivors:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZlYp8z5tNlE/Swm5haPUDpI/AAAAAAAAANY/hRK9U7efiFM/s1600/FARMERPANORAMA.jpg)
I made them out of paperclips, strips of paper, and ends of a toothpick. Superglue, and painted 'harvest' color.
Very simple, and cheap.
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I'm pretty sure, the bangers I have for fingers would botch that up. lol
They are nice, perhaps a bit too time consuming for a large field. Their colour made me think of an old Hitchcock film, where Cary Grant is attacked in a cornfield with DDT from a plane. :)
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Man, which one is that.... North by Northwest?
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You can get cornfield squares from Battlefield Terrain Concepts:
http://battlefieldterrain.com/product.btc?category_id=5&product_id=17
http://battlefieldterrain.com/item.btc?category_id=5&product_id=17&type_id=33&item_id=46
Some people cut up Christmas wreaths, paint the top yellow and get the same effect.
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Man, which one is that.... North by Northwest?
That's the one!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g458w2X9uHc
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You can get cornfield squares from Battlefield Terrain Concepts:
http://battlefieldterrain.com/product.btc?category_id=5&product_id=17
http://battlefieldterrain.com/item.btc?category_id=5&product_id=17&type_id=33&item_id=46
Some people cut up Christmas wreaths, paint the top yellow and get the same effect.
I know about that approch - it would probablier easier for me to use real twigs from our conifer trees outside the house, and from the Christmas tree, though, (also possible to pull off individual 'needles' to give a less uniform appearance), as plastic Christmas ornaments are not so common here in DK (well, not yet, anyway, although our holidays get more and more 'americanized').
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I've been looking for some corn-y ideas for my PA setting. Need corn for food, booze, and fuel.
Anyone have any ideas for tobacco and hemp? I image those would be popular crops after the apocalypse as well.
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I have seen plastic model hemp plants somewhere, but I dont remember where. I don't even know what a tobacco plants looks like, living where I do (hemp is quite common in backyard greenhouses, though.... ::) )
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Hummm readin` other post how many were you thinking of & why so many & what for? :?
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Hummm readin` other post how many were you thinking of & why so many & what for? :?
If you mean me: for a large field. For a farm which is targeted by a saucer crew for probing/samples. Much hide and seek in the crops. When aliens revealed, authorities called, and USRC called in for counter-measures.... That's the big picture.
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Flag Dude makes a variety of crops including tobacco plants. You may be able to get some iceas from teh photos.
http://www.flagdude.com/product.do?product_id=17
A review of the Busch HO scale maiz field here (multiple photos):
http://modeltrain.servehttp.com/layout.nsf/1/corn
Note that Busch also makes hops, sunflowers, tulips, and a pumpkin patch.
I bought some of the Busch corn and it is nice. I had planned to replace my existing cornfields with it. However, I eventually sold it as it looked out of character with the rest of the terrian used on my table.
Cheers,
Barry
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Niels, grass on the way to you this am, (christ this sounds like a pot deal! lol).
The Commander
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Dude, I'm all needy lol
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Flag Dude makes a variety of crops including tobacco plants. You may be able to get some iceas from teh photos.
http://www.flagdude.com/product.do?product_id=17
Also these (pics, not models): http://www.google.dk/search?q=tobacco+plants&hl=da&client=firefox-a&hs=qp5&rls=org.mozilla:da:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=-VNZTrL7FYbusgbmtvy8Cg&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1414&bih=797
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Today I went looking for simple coconut matting doormats, thinking I might try and make some wheat fields. You know the kind, like this:
(http://hoza.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Doormat.jpg)
You'd think they'd be cheap and widely available. I mean, when I was younger EVERYBODY had these for their doormat - and lots of folks still do! Turns out I can't find any anywhere in Toronto. o_o >:( o_o
Okay, strictly speaking that's not true. I did find some at one hardware place, but get this: they were $100! >:( :o >:(
Sometimes I feel like I live in crazyland.
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Okay, strictly speaking that's not true. I did find some at one hardware place, but get this: they were $100! >:( :o >:(
I'll have a look around - maybe here's a commodity that may be exported - we have SO many bazars and other 'oriental shops' that may have cheap mats for sale, you never know... :)
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Well, I haven't checked every store in town I'm sure, so I may well find some later (Home Despot did have some too, but they'd been dyed black! :-[ ).
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Oh how I know the feeling. I'm absolutely sure a year or two ago every bargain store in the town was selling plain doormats for 5e. I even have solid proof of a few places. However, this year when I really needed one, I visited about 15 different stores - supermarkets, junk shops, hardware, furniture, garden, even actual mat stores, you name it. Nothing! Well, something, but each and every one was dyed or printed throughout so that you couldn't find an inch of natural coulour there. On the second, desperate round if found a checkered one. Pros: it had six different colours, all fairly nice for different crops. Cons: the squares were about 10 cm across. I chopped it up so now my fields consist of smallish squares with visible edges. Handy for storage but not perfectly pretty.
What was wrong with plain doormats? All those fancy printed ones make me wonder what people are doing with them. Using them as doormats!? Madness, I say.
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I just found one, 100cm by 50cm (but they custom cut), 24mm thick = DKK 162.50 divide by 5.2 = $31,25 (but an online store, so postage would be added, and the stuff is not THAT light).
So it must be possible!
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I've found IKEA here in Australia stocks rubberbacked dormats which may fit the purpose and for a reasonable price. They are approximately 15mm high. Not sure if their range is standard worldwide but they may be worth looking at.
After reading an article in an old issue of Wargames Illustrated I was looking for a particular type of rubber backed doormat. I couldn't find anywhere locally in Australia that carried them, however while travelling through the UK on a backpacking trip, I found one in Bangor (Wales) and knew if I didn't buy it then I would never see one again. My wife just shook her head, gave me 'the look' and told me I was to carry it. God knows what Customs must have thought. They probably didn't bother to ask after finding the rubber chicken...
Cheers,
Barry
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Schogun already mentioned the JTT cornstalks in 1 inch and 2 inch sizes. But I spotted a better price with some reviews on modeltrainstuff.com here:
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/JTT-Scenery-Products-HO-BU-1011-Corn-Stalks-1-36-p/jtt-bu1011.htm
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Well, sad to say it was WalMart that had to save the day this time around. Still, better that than no wheatfields at all!
My next question: Any suggestions on what I might do to the surface in 30mm gaming? There's a subtle row pattern, but the tops are basically perfectly even and the density and colour are uniform.
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Sorry for the minor thread hijack, but I'm going to pose a few questions.
So, as mentioned, I found some coconut matting. It was a bit short (very roughly 16mm or ¾"), but just about everywhere I looked it was shorter stuff. Seeing as I was lucky to find any that didn't have patterns all over it, I decided to try and make the fields anyway.
I cut some bases to use for my crops
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/FramFramson/Wheat01.jpg)
Then I pulled out the mat and cut a rough chunk.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/FramFramson/Wheat02.jpg)
I had an idea to try and make up for the short height. I would raise the centre and lower the outer edges. This way most of the field would be of the correct height, but the "platform" (a chunk of foamcore) raising the centre would be hidden by the edges.
To get this, I traced the base plate over a paper and roughed in a concentric contour. Then I put it over the mat and cut in.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/FramFramson/Wheat03.jpg)
Then I glued it down. The centre looked awkwardly raised (there was a very noticeable "step"), so I trimmed it as best I could to make it seem like a more natural progression.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/FramFramson/Wheat04.jpg)
Then I put the rough form out with some figures to see how it looked (the fellow in the middle is "hiding" in the grass). The final would basically look like this, only the edges would look properly like dirt (which will hide the rubber mat backing).
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/FramFramson/Wheat05.jpg)
Looking at the mockup, I really wasn't sure if I was 100% okay with it. The mat was cheap enough, so it was time for more experiments!
I went back to my idea of strips. I decided to cut a few to see how they looked.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/FramFramson/Wheat06.jpg)
Then I placed them out as I might in a game (they would still be based on MDF board with a dirt edge to hide the mat).
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/FramFramson/Wheat07.jpg)
Now I'm really torn and I don't know which version I like better. I did a pros and cons list.
1st version
Pros.
- I'm able to get the height I need.
- Looks a bit more like a proper dense wheatfield.
- Figures can hide properly in the field.
Cons
- It's almost too perfectly dense and even.
2nd version
Pros
- Much more variable in terms of area that can be covered.
- Expanded gameplay options with a vastly larger number of configurations.
- Looks a little more natural in terms of irregularity.
Cons
- Barely looks like a wheatfield anymore. It's far too short and far too widely spaced. Almost looks like dying hedgerows (maybe I can use these to make hedgerows later!).
- Figures can't really hide in the field anymore, only around them. The strips lose any tall grass functionality and become more like low walls.
So I don't know. There are gameplay pros and cons and aesthetic pros and cons. Figured I'd bounce it off you folks to get more opinions.
Any thoughts?
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ok, close up your field & make up a marker for any figures `in the field` differant colours if you like for differant figs even a matchstick glued to small base would do :)
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Of all the variables to consider, figures being on top of the first field doesn't really bug me too much.
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figures being on top of the first field doesn't really bug me too much.
It does me... ;) I'll get some mat and try out my idea with the bases... I could also do some with down-trodden crops to leave in place when a unit has passed lol
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Well, one of the good ideas someone had was to do a "rim" of wheat-mat and then cut out the centre in hexes. Then you could just pop out the hexes when you wanted to put a figure in the field.
The problem with that that I discovered is that this stuff sticks and tangles like cyclopean velcro. So popping hexes in and out became an exercise in ripping and tearing.
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Well maybe not cornfields exactly but for long grass consider Woodland Scenics who stock all sorts of terrain - see: http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/FieldGrass and they also make sheets of long grass which I can't seem to find on there website, but that works well too for anything from yes a field to odd tuffs here and there. Also for something truly inspirational see: http://www.elladan.de/001%20fur%20mat%20test%20pieces/001.htm
Amazing effects can thus be rendered using what otherwise lands up as Teddy Bears - so have a picnic. Another advantage of the bear fur is troops can readily move through it par perhaps minuses to movement.
I found brushes especially tooth brushes can be good too especially for things like reeds - can even add little globs of glue to the ends to make plants that look like this, see: http://www.treesbypost.com/index.cfm/page/products/occ_cat/17 the bullrush pic. Hope this helps.
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I actually have used the teddy fur too. I have a series of grassy patches (tall grass for for wilder areas or marshes - some peices are supposed to have ponds in them) I've had half-done forever.
Mage Knight figures have larger bases than most minis and are generally lighter, so they sit on top of that grass too, so figures actually hiding in the grass is a non-starter there too (or is at least way more effort that it's worth).
They ought to look good while figures aren't in them anyway. It's not ideal, but I can live with the compromise.
*sigh* really should finish those.
EDIT: I did see some really neat silk carpeting with a golden grass look, long tall fibres, and plenty of spacing between the tufts at Home Despot. They looked like I might've been able to get the full Elladan effect even with MK bases, but the rugs were only sold in large sizes at several hundred dollars a pop, so so much for that idea!
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I ended up getting 500 JTT stalks last year, because I inherited a nice sum of money (otherwise, I would never have bought that much).
All I need to do now is find some time to make the strips, drill the holes, glue the stalks, and sand and paint the strips...
I have a couple of other projects to attend to, first, but maybe I'll find some time in week 19 which is my spring vacation this year.
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WOW, that's enough stalks to play a Children Of The Corn game. lol