Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: V on October 08, 2011, 02:53:03 PM
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Last nights game was a 500 point 'Hold the Line', with Skip and his germans defending an attack by Gary and my British forces. Was nice to see each player with their own kit on the table! In there first ever game, Gary's forces did not take a single casualty!
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5433.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5435.jpg)
Our 500 point British force...
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5432.jpg)
We attacked with a platoon on each flank supported by a troop of Churchills. It started well with accurate, but somewhat ineffectual mortar fire hitting the Germans. But a particuarly fierce 4.2" mortar stock ejected the German grenadiers from the Church and sent them running! That was followed by my Churchills losing two of their number to dug-in A/T guns and a lone marauding Panther!
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5437.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5441.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5439.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5460.jpg)
Luckily I followed this up with a healthy dose of Flame from my Crocodile and BBQ'ed the annoying Pak40 gunners...
Privates Bert & Ernie out hunting the lone Panther... Sadly it ran away from them... Next time...
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5456.jpg)
My troops then took the church under heavy enemy shellfire, all the while Gary's men crept down the other flank unopposed! A German counter-attack led by StuGs and with Grenadiers in support failed to re-take the church and my platoon HQ 2" mortar dropped a lovely round on their supporting MG42 team killing the entire crew. The StuGs fell foul to a couple of 75mm rounds from the Croc as it slowly marched on the village. A particuarly violent mortar barrage on the village knocked-out the German 88 and Gary took one of the objectives, once again with no losses. In one turn Skip was forced to draw a total of 8 morale chits...
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5445.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5448.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5449.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5450.jpg)
In the final attack on the village German morale crumbled, and the remenants of the German force withdrew. My platoon had suffered quite heavy losses with nearly 55% of the men out of action and two of the supporting Churchills destroyed along with my supporting MMG team who took a direct hit from a 150mm shell. Gary on the other hand took no casualties.
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5451.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5452.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5457.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5458.jpg)
Really enjoyed this game, and at the start it was very tense. On my side of the table it felt like a right slog through the Norman countryside, while a few hedgerows away, Gary and his men were having a spot of Tiffin...
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss205/BigP_from_the_GMG/20mm%20British%20WW2/DSCN5463.jpg)
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Excellent report again Piers, no casualties for the Germans! Seems the Germans thought they had lost so did.
Always a pleasure to see your collection too.
Have bought KGN in the sale for the scenarios (& eye candy) but given your reports I will be sorely tempted to give the rules a try out, will need to persuade Dave first though.
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Plenty of dead Germans... Most of the grenadiers were casualties, both Pak40s, the 88 and two of the StuGs...
One of the British platoons, covered on the right flank, advance with no casualties as they were screened by the bocage.
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Ah, I see now. One of the problems of interspersing the commentary with eye candy, it broke up the context for me somewhat.
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Another great AAR.
Everything is so top notched.
Thanks for sharing.
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Great report, really interesting to read.
Are the British infantry from AB? I'm thinking of starting a 20mm Brit force and am still sourcing out the best figures to use.
Cheers
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Great report, really interesting to read.
Are the British infantry from AB? I'm thinking of starting a 20mm Brit force and am still sourcing out the best figures to use.
Cheers
British are a mix of AB, Fantassin, Kellys Heroes, Battlefield, Raventhorpe and Britannia.
I mix all makes of 20mm together as it all tends to work fine when blended by the same paintjob.
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Awesome battle report, fantastic terrain and models!
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British are a mix of AB, Fantassin, Kellys Heroes, Battlefield, Raventhorpe and Britannia.
I mix all makes of 20mm together as it all tends to work fine when blended by the same paintjob.
Thanks
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Once again, a exellent AAR from you and your gang, and as allways a great pleasure to both read and to watch the pictures.
One question, how do quality of troops actually reflect on game play? In FoW its too little difference, with rating only ranged on a D6, wich means you end up paying too much for obviously better troops (that doesnt have much outcome on the game play in the end), but get much less models on the table (as allways). How is that handled here?
It seems like morale is of great importance, wich I enjoy, so I am eagerly awaiting the arriwal of the rules book (I suppose it will end up here soonish).
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All about morale... Better troops have higher values. Higher the morale, the longer your army will stick around...
Some also have the 'Veteran' trait which allows them to re-roll the first morale test they take in a game. May not sound like much but that makes a world of difference, especially with an all Veteran army like the new British Airborne list that Warwick has written for WI.
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Thanks again Piers on a wonderful gaming report.
Cheers,
Helen
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All about morale... Better troops have higher values. Higher the morale, the longer your army will stick around...
Some also have the 'Veteran' trait which allows them to re-roll the first morale test they take in a game. May not sound like much but that makes a world of difference, especially with an all Veteran army like the new British Airborne list that Warwick has written for WI.
Right, this is what I wanted to read, but the question that we (in our gaming group) have asked our self, if its yet another game where better quality troops are not interesting to field, due to the value factor not being properly implemented, once again FoW as a good example (and of course other games), ie. the SS tropps from the better divisions cost too much in regards to what they are capable of doing. In the end, a lot of these games comes down to the amount of dice you can throw, and since you (despite the seriously and utterly redicolous statement from Battlefronts side that they dont count strategic values in their game haha) allways get more troops from the russian / US / Brittish lists, and in the end the quality have nothing to do with the outcome, since 25 troops have more dice than the 8 SS elite guys you get for the same amount of points within the game system,
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Well if you look at the AAR entitled 'Village C' you will see what a German force, outnumbered 3 - 1 is able to do when attacking a Soviet force.
I dont believe, on an abstracted squad firing level, there should be much difference in troop firing ability, especially not in the mass armies of WW2. Where the difference should come is in how they use their weapon systems and how high their morale is. For example look at the shambles of US fire training prior to deployment into the ETO and how the semi-auto Garand made no difference to firepower due to poor training doctrine (see M. Doubler's 'GI in Europe' for a full appraisal of the huge problems the US Army encountered and overcame during and after Normandy).
In KGN the Germans benefit from better morale values (in some cases) and a more flexible squad structure that allows far more tactical options to be considered (though at the disadvantage of having smaller units). This then allows them to out-fight a numerically superior opponent (provided you use the correct tactics and lady luck smiles on you). All the armies in the books are very different in very subtle ways.
This to me gives a far better recreation than the 'my SS are WS 4' type of thing that is pure fantasy.
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Great report and an excellent collection (even if it is the wrong scale! lol )
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Great report and an excellent collection (even if it is the wrong scale! lol )
:o Everyone knows that 20mm, 1/72-1/76 is THE SCALE for WWII ;)
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Well if you look at the AAR entitled 'Village C' you will see what a German force, outnumbered 3 - 1 is able to do when attacking a Soviet force.
I dont believe, on an abstracted squad firing level, there should be much difference in troop firing ability, especially not in the mass armies of WW2. Where the difference should come is in how they use their weapon systems and how high their morale is. For example look at the shambles of US fire training prior to deployment into the ETO and how the semi-auto Garand made no difference to firepower due to poor training doctrine (see M. Doubler's 'GI in Europe' for a full appraisal of the huge problems the US Army encountered and overcame during and after Normandy).
In KGN the Germans benefit from better morale values (in some cases) and a more flexible squad structure that allows far more tactical options to be considered (though at the disadvantage of having smaller units). This then allows them to out-fight a numerically superior opponent (provided you use the correct tactics and lady luck smiles on you). All the armies in the books are very different in very subtle ways.
This to me gives a far better recreation than the 'my SS are WS 4' type of thing that is pure fantasy.
I think that we are on the same track here, but I am not sure, hehe. I will notice when I get the rules my self, and will come back with an answer then, when I have tested the system my self. However, the points you make are of course right, and yes well known facts and it have been discussed until no end.
The issue is, as far as I am concerned, that often do the german forces get less troops or gear with the justification of that "it was like this at the later part of the war", a general misconception that often lead to piss poor game systems, so you end up with 5 germans against gazilions of allied troops, marginally less good at doing what they are supposed to do in the game than the germans, but totally and utterly outgun them with dice, due to the above mentioned issue. Even when playing earlier war scenarios, when there is no justification what so ever for less troops/gear etc. It seems like most game rules constructors forget that they had great numbers, on par with their enemies earlier on in the war effort. However, the morale thing of the game, that you wrote about in your earlier posts about this game, here and elsewhere is what got me curious.