Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: gloriousbattle on November 19, 2011, 03:23:37 PM
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Hashashins, Ismailis, Thugees, etc. How would you handle them for a semi-historical army, just in general philosophy?
I can think of three ways I've seen similar stuff done:
1. Pay the points for him, but don't put him on the table. He pops up randomly during the game for a one-shot murder attempt.
2. Some sort of invisibility rules for off-table movement.
3. He is not fielded, but if the points are paid, he has some pre-battle effect, possibly killing an important officer, lowering the army's morale somewhat, or giving his own force some positional advantage.
Just curious, thanks.
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The "assassin" can "hide" in an enemy unit and when revealed (TaaDaa) can strike against the enemy character in the unit
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Sorry, can't quite see what this has to do with VSF?
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I guess a mod can move this to a more general forum? But I'm not sure which one is best.
I've had a similar question I was thinking of asking. I would be really interested in some elaboration on the first and second options. How do you handle "hidden" off-table movement and keep it fair? What kind of triggers can you use to decide whent he figure pops in? Hiding "in" a figure is a neat idea and an okay workaround, but makes the assassin completely ignore terrain or the need to stay hidden (and possibly preventing multiple targets/target switching depending on the rules you use).
What I really want are rules for working out an "ambush" force that the opponent can't see. But for a whole force, that's much harder.
I don't like the third, because it entirely removes itself from gameplay. It's no fun (not in the "that's mean!" sense, but in the sense that it really is boring and no fun) and also kind of brainless. You would just always kill your opponent's best figure before the battle starts.
That's a silly way to play, unless it's part of a long campaign with lots of out-of-battle events or something. Even then, I'd still make it contingent on a die roll or something.
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IIRC In GW WHFB, Dark Elves and Skaven used to have rules for assasins.
They're similar and pretty much goes like this:
You pay the points, but dont deploy the miniature; It's considered "hidden" among the RaF troops, but enemy doesn't know where (but you have to make a note, saying where they are).
When 2 oposed units starts melee, and BEFORE any dice are rolled, you declare that in that unit there was an assasin and you ELIMINATE one of your own models, and substitutes it for the assasin, who gets "first strike" against any model he-she-it is touching in the enemy unit (ussualy a character). That means that you pay the points of the assasin PLUS the point of the miniature he-she-it is replacing.
From that moment on, the assasin is just a character in the unit, but as an "solitaire" individual, the unit can't use his superior leadership.
I don't remember if the assasin can leave the unit or not once revealed.
It's soooo long since I played WHFB as to recall that.
Hope that helps.
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Sorry, can't quite see what this has to do with VSF?
You can't? Similar stuff forms the basis of many Victorian stories of doubtful historical basis (as good a definition for VSF as any I've ever seens, and, since I mention assassins that are strictly of the period...). The Four Feathers, for example? Granted, not precisely an assassin, but the fucntion is similar.
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Neat ideas. How would this work for a compromise?
The controlling player writes down the starting position of the assassin, where he is "lying in wait." If no enemy ever crosses that position, he is lost and is of no use, since he couldn't get an opportunity to strike.
If an enemy figure moves, say, within 3" of the assassin's location, the assassin is revealed, and replaces the figure... but, for the purposes of the game, he is in disguise, and cannot be attacked by his new 'friends', and can also move through their units (though this might allow, say, a 2 in 6 chance of his being recognized).
Once the assassin actually attacks, his disguise is revealed, and he becaomse just another miniature for his controlling player's side.
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You can't? Similar stuff forms the basis of many Victorian stories of doubtful historical basis (as good a definition for VSF as any I've ever seens, and, since I mention assassins that are strictly of the period...). The Four Feathers, for example? Granted, not precisely an assassin, but the fucntion is similar.
No, I can't. :?
I don't see any similarity at all, especially when you mention the Four Feathers.
Boys Own Adventures, pulp at a stretch but VSF it ain't and neither are the Thugee... ::)
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doubtful historical basis (as good a definition for VSF as any I've ever seens, and, since I mention assassins that are strictly of the period...).
Malamute's right. I'm Struggling to see how 'doubtful historical basis' can be equated with 'Victorian Science Fiction'. Generally speaking, VSF games require an element of science...
Perhaps we need a new board - 'Victorian Adventures of Doubtful Historical Basis'. ::)
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Well, guess we're at an impasse then. :o
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Good question and something I hadn't given much thought to in games, then again some of the rules I play dont even have line of sight rules they are that simple. Food for thought though.
I have to agree with the mod on his viewpoint, the subject isn't really VSF - Victorian Science Fiction. If your assasin is an invisible man; the product of some devilish Victorian science or armed with Fortesque's Electric Laceratum it's game on. But your bog standard assasin is a bit like a sniper in a bell tower.
I had a question recently about a Prussian invasion of England in the 1870's. It was alternate history, 'what if'. I ended up posting it on another board. Now if I had thrown some un-historical steam technology in, flyers and other fangled scientific doodah's the post would have been here.
Thinking about it, if you posted it on one of the more general boards you'd probably get more answers, people are scared to come to this board in case we dont let them out.
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Well, if it was in a different board, it might also get more answers. Not everyone reads all the subgenre boards.
It's funny that there really is no "general wargames questions" subforum for questions not tied to a specific genre... other than maybe the "other wargames" section? And even then it doesn't really fit.
Myself, I'd be really interested in rules for small forces to move hidden for a while. I find that the single biggest thing missing from most tabletop wargames is the ability to keep some of the battlefield "hidden" from your opponent, which completely removes surprise and the fog of war - both huge components of real warfare.
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Myself, I'd be really interested in rules for small forces to move hidden for a while. I find that the single biggest thing missing from most tabletop wargames is the ability to keep some of the battlefield "hidden" from your opponent, which completely removes surprise and the fog of war - both huge components of real warfare.
The Sword and the Flame has some interesting rules for hidden movement for 'native' units. However, whilst I think it's a good idea, it's rather hard to pull off convincingly without having two tables, or a map.
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Thinking about it, if you posted it on one of the more general boards you'd probably get more answers, people are scared to come to this board in case we dont let them out.
And this could be a scary place to get stuck.
However, as one who always thought (after a few initial proddings) the "What is VSF?" Question was kinda silly, I really don't see why this would not qualify.
After all, VSF can be as weird and outre' as a Burroughsian nine foot tall, four armed, befanged Green Martian, or as simple as a primitive tank with a steam engine. So, why not a kind of super-assassin, who could do more than assassins could in real life. Tarzan is considered Pulp, and sometimes VSF, after all, but what is he other than a really tough guy? Okay, he DOES talk to animals.
Anyway, here is my revised definition for VSF. It is precisely whatever I want it to be.
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Having a Jihadist VSF army myself, I've thought about including Hashassains for a little while. After all, I already have Jinn and the Prince of Persia alongside my automatons and areoneph.
I think adapting the GW "hidden in a unit" rules would work pretty well in GASLIGHT without too much stuffing about.
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I already have Jinn and the Prince of Persia alongside my automatons and areoneph.
Hear hear. I have three efreet and three djinn bought for the purpose. Very powerful, but if they get out of control, the Muslim troops quickly find that they don't like them any better than their enemies...
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magokiron's idea was the longer version of mine which I got from using Shadowblade in my Dark Elf army. And they can leave the unit but usually the assassin gets hacked down following the assassinantion....